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NESL Semis/Finals - Page 23

Forum Index > LoL General
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Dgiese
Profile Joined July 2010
United States2687 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-28 06:31:58
February 28 2011 06:30 GMT
#441
Is it really the kind of issue that Riot should be stepping in to fix though? If the players are happy to be on a team with 20 other players and only occasionally being called up to play isn't that their prerogative?

I mean, would Riot forcing capping team numbers inspire those that were kicked out to start their own teams or join others and work hard or just say "Well fuck it, time for a different game".
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
February 28 2011 06:31 GMT
#442
If riot wants a functioning competitive scene, then yes, it is the sort of thing they should be stepping in to fix.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
Dgiese
Profile Joined July 2010
United States2687 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-28 06:38:37
February 28 2011 06:33 GMT
#443
Well I mean ESL already has an upper cap for the number of players you can have registered to your team...

To be honest, I'd say there are much larger reasons why the competitive scene isn't as strong as it could be. Something simple would be to organise larger prize pools, and that way there isn't the clumsy solution of heavy handed 'anti monopoly' regulation.
nyxnyxnyx
Profile Joined April 2010
Indonesia2978 Posts
February 28 2011 07:19 GMT
#444
Economic solution by way of incentives:

Split prize pool so 2nd and 3rd are not a lot less than 1st.

e.g. changing from $1000, $500, $100 to $800, $500, $300
cool beans
dnastyx
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States2707 Posts
February 28 2011 07:48 GMT
#445
I think part of the problem is how dead the US scene is. DoTA and HoN both had a lot of money coming in from team sponsors. And yeah, SK has a LoL team in EU, but can you imagine any team but CLG being sponsored in the US? I don't see it happening.

I can't see any easy solution for a deep competitive coming out of this game any time soon, to be honest. There was a huge window that Riot missed, and while tournaments like this are great, longevity requires that players and teams stay interested. It doesn't help that one of the teams closest to CLG, the old Korean one (Overpowered) has all either quit, just trolls now, or went to the army.
Seiuchi
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States931 Posts
February 28 2011 08:19 GMT
#446
I don't think there's much you can do with prize money to dissuade CLG from picking who they want. It's a 5v5 game. Money is always going to a team. If CLG is winning every tournament, you're going to be splitting shares no matter what, so always split the winning share, right?

Not to mention even if they didn't pick up people like Doublelift or saintvicious and such, the fact is CLG's the strongest team because they've always had the best two/three players in the game (jiji and Chauster for sure, Hotshot people can debate about), one of the best junglers, and tier list guy. But it's not out of line for them to have a backup or two. I mean, Locicero doesn't count entirely since he's busy enough with college.
Dgiese
Profile Joined July 2010
United States2687 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-28 08:25:30
February 28 2011 08:20 GMT
#447
Well Riot made their decisions I guess, they put effort towards convincing casual players to make regular mini payments (an entirely legitimate business decision that I'm not criticising them for). But they only had so much manpower to work with important things to competitive gaming took a backseat to appealing to a more casual audience.

On the bright side it seems like at least they haven't completely forsaken the competitive aspect of the game, and things like observer mode and replays are being worked on.

@Seluchi - With regards to prize money, the point is that those players who are on the CLG roster but not expected to be included in the main team will have more incentive to join / create a team so that they get a share of the prize money.

I don't know how CLG divides the prize money amongst it's team, but I'd imagine that those who were only reserves could stand to make a larger share than they would get even by winning 3rd/4th place with their own team.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
February 28 2011 08:43 GMT
#448
On February 28 2011 17:19 Seiuchi wrote:
Not to mention even if they didn't pick up people like Doublelift or saintvicious and such, the fact is CLG's the strongest team because they've always had the best two/three players in the game (jiji and Chauster for sure, Hotshot people can debate about), one of the best junglers, and tier list guy. But it's not out of line for them to have a backup or two. I mean, Locicero doesn't count entirely since he's busy enough with college.

Loci's also been with them long enough that he's not really "guy they picked up for 1-2 events"-status anymore really.
Moderator
r33k
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Italy3402 Posts
February 28 2011 08:50 GMT
#449
On February 28 2011 17:43 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2011 17:19 Seiuchi wrote:
Not to mention even if they didn't pick up people like Doublelift or saintvicious and such, the fact is CLG's the strongest team because they've always had the best two/three players in the game (jiji and Chauster for sure, Hotshot people can debate about), one of the best junglers, and tier list guy. But it's not out of line for them to have a backup or two. I mean, Locicero doesn't count entirely since he's busy enough with college.

Loci's also been with them long enough that he's not really "guy they picked up for 1-2 events"-status anymore really.

The problem is that he's been considered a b-teamer every since Elementz came to CLG. The bottom lane is solidly into the hands of elementz+HS and he has a hard time finding a spot, in fact I don't even remember ever seeing him actually playing for CLG in a competitive event. That's why he doesn't have all the fanbase recognition that the a-teamers have.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
February 28 2011 09:05 GMT
#450
On February 28 2011 17:50 r33k wrote:
The problem is that he's been considered a b-teamer every since Elementz came to CLG. The bottom lane is solidly into the hands of elementz+HS and he has a hard time finding a spot, in fact I don't even remember ever seeing him actually playing for CLG in a competitive event. That's why he doesn't have all the fanbase recognition that the a-teamers have.

He got some play time on some of the earlier ESL qualifier rounds, but I don't think they took those that seriously.
Moderator
Aurdon
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2007 Posts
February 28 2011 10:00 GMT
#451
You would see more top teams if there was actually a competitive scene for LoL. The number of tournaments is so low and they are so spread out that no teams even get a chance to gel before they are thrown into the next big tournament. This is also why the premade 5v5 ladder scene is dead. There is no incentive to get a team together and practice because what are you really practicing for, maybe 4 tournaments all year?

Without replays or observer mode available to the general public, the competitive scene will suffer. Once those features come out. Major tournaments can be held by people without Riot's supervision and help. Then you will start seeing the tournament scene look more like the SC2 scene with tournaments almost every day. Good lord there were 30k people watching these games. There's a viewer base just not a product.

Riot has to get its shit together and help the esports scene.
Niton
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2395 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-28 11:47:24
February 28 2011 11:47 GMT
#452
On February 28 2011 19:00 Aurdon wrote:
Riot has to get its shit together and help the esports scene.


We might be holding our breath for a while, because from what it seems like, they have some of the worst people in the company in charge of it. They've been reaching out more than they used to, but they need to go further and get some kind of small level tournament system set up ASAP.
tree.hugger: Coming off of [(T)fantasy v. (T)Really] into [(T)Barracks v. (T)MVP] is like coming out of Manhattan into New Jersey. You just have to speed up and ignore it.
rob.au
Profile Joined May 2010
1087 Posts
February 28 2011 12:27 GMT
#453
They need to have an incentive for people to do premade 5s over solo queue, and it can't just be something like more tournaments, money etc... The reason the competitive scene is dead is because there are basically no new entrants. The teams we see in ESL have been formed either by veterans who have ended up playing the game so much they got to know each other just by being matched together in solo queue, or teams made from outside communities.

The ladder is basically meaningless right now, and the best way to get more 5s teams is to make the 5s ladder more meaningful. Something as simple as running competitions where in game prizes are given out based on your ladder rank, where they reset the ladder and have it run for a month or so would drum up a lot of interest providing the prizes were for something like the top 5000 ranked players on the 5s ladder or something like that where even average players could form a team and end up with a prize like a new skin as reward.
Irave
Profile Joined October 2010
United States9965 Posts
February 28 2011 13:14 GMT
#454
On February 28 2011 21:27 rob.au wrote:
They need to have an incentive for people to do premade 5s over solo queue, and it can't just be something like more tournaments, money etc... The reason the competitive scene is dead is because there are basically no new entrants. The teams we see in ESL have been formed either by veterans who have ended up playing the game so much they got to know each other just by being matched together in solo queue, or teams made from outside communities.

The ladder is basically meaningless right now, and the best way to get more 5s teams is to make the 5s ladder more meaningful. Something as simple as running competitions where in game prizes are given out based on your ladder rank, where they reset the ladder and have it run for a month or so would drum up a lot of interest providing the prizes were for something like the top 5000 ranked players on the 5s ladder or something like that where even average players could form a team and end up with a prize like a new skin as reward.

Isn't it a bit early to judge that the ladder is totally meaningless as it still remains to be Season 1, and we have no idea what they plan to do when it comes to an end? Its also a bit harsh to call this tournament a complete failure, I'm certain there was at least 128 teams that entered and gave it a shot. They even announced during the stream that they were starting up a premiere team league.
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
February 28 2011 14:05 GMT
#455
On February 28 2011 17:20 Dgiese wrote:
Well Riot made their decisions I guess, they put effort towards convincing casual players to make regular mini payments (an entirely legitimate business decision that I'm not criticising them for). But they only had so much manpower to work with important things to competitive gaming took a backseat to appealing to a more casual audience.

On the bright side it seems like at least they haven't completely forsaken the competitive aspect of the game, and things like observer mode and replays are being worked on.

@Seluchi - With regards to prize money, the point is that those players who are on the CLG roster but not expected to be included in the main team will have more incentive to join / create a team so that they get a share of the prize money.

I don't know how CLG divides the prize money amongst it's team, but I'd imagine that those who were only reserves could stand to make a larger share than they would get even by winning 3rd/4th place with their own team.


Yeah, would be kind of interesting to know how much the b teamers get paid. I hope they are at least getting smth if the likes of loci are just being on B team.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
-Kato-
Profile Joined June 2010
Spain1146 Posts
February 28 2011 16:45 GMT
#456
I havent watched anything but I dont want to search for links in here in case I get spoilt. Are there any VODs of the games up?
Psyqo
Profile Joined November 2007
United States401 Posts
February 28 2011 17:56 GMT
#457
Phreak really needs to work on his caster/co-caster role. I couldn't tell what he was. FourCourtJester kept quiet most of the time and tried to call out to Phreak on where the action was, but he was too busy yammering that he missed 3/4s of the fight initiations. I don't know if he would fall into the caster or color-commentator role, but he needs to pick one.

Tastosis has spoiled me in the commentary world.
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
February 28 2011 19:03 GMT
#458
On March 01 2011 02:56 Psyqo wrote:
Phreak really needs to work on his caster/co-caster role. I couldn't tell what he was. FourCourtJester kept quiet most of the time and tried to call out to Phreak on where the action was, but he was too busy yammering that he missed 3/4s of the fight initiations. I don't know if he would fall into the caster or color-commentator role, but he needs to pick one.

Tastosis has spoiled me in the commentary world.

Phreak just did a really bad job. Unfortunately, riot seems to have locked him in to the commentary role, but he NEEDS to be the co-commentator. He misses WAY to much stuff to have full control of the obs.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
baneling
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada56 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-28 19:19:07
February 28 2011 19:18 GMT
#459
I enjoyed watching some of the games, in the end even having played the game I found it confusing and frustrating to watch. I think I'd rather just first person follow one player through the game with a commentator on top talking about the overall action, that's probably just personal preference though.

I haven't read the entirety of the thread so I don't know if it's been commented on but I think the players need to stop swearing in the in-game stream viewable chats and in general act more like adults. If LoL ever wants to attract real sponsors for events, the sponsors aren't going to want to see that and it makes the entire event feel amateurish when the players are swearing away and chatting about their girlfriends and how they need to take a dump before the game starts. This looks bad on the players, the LoL community and Riot for hosting and publicizing the event.

Thirdly, I found it gross that players openly bashed Riot in the pre-game chats, talking about how certain skins sucked (that's going to cost Riot money), as well as discussions around the LoL Replay Tool, to quote some player 'you know the one Riot couldn't make.' Riot did a lot to make this event happen, publicize it and bring the viewers to it. Warranted or not I think the players can keep the comments to themselves during the event just out of respect for what Riot did to make the event happen. If Riot feels they are being portrayed in a negative light while these events are happening they'll simply stop doing it.

Anyways that was my thoughts on the event fwiw.
Chrispy
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada5878 Posts
February 28 2011 19:27 GMT
#460
Your second and third paragraphs are exactly what I was thinking.
Retvrn to Forvms
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