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On June 13 2011 06:52 spinesheath wrote:
Uh if you get matched against lvl 12+ in your first game, you can assume that they are actually STILL at the same skill level as the average lvl 1 player. Even with that tiny rune/mastery advantage. There's still some sort of matchmaking at low levels.
Maybe you're worse than the average lvl 1 player (not necessarily something to be ashamed of: lots of accounts are made by people who already know how to play this game). The matchmaking could not have foreseen that. Hopefully you'll just get used to the game quickly and after 3 more games you'll be crushing all those Flash carrying nubs by baiting them to dive you, just to hit D and trollface in real life as you cast summoner Heal.
The mastery advantage only really kicks in by lvl 21, and runes by lvl 20. Having Flash often is a huge advantage though, I gotta admit that. But only if you don't use it to flash on top of the enemy tower. TBH I really think people complaining about elo hell should do this. Create a new level 1 and just get the feel of how easily you can solo win with pretty much any champion. My second game was 3 vs 5 and we still won easily. I bet that's how low ELO feels like for those at the top.
And ghost exhaust is the way to go ^^
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I love people who read solomid featured guides and try to copy exactlty what they do in that guide, but fail. Especially dyrus's singed guide.
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On June 13 2011 07:08 0123456789 wrote:
I love people who read solomid featured guides and try to copy exactlty what they do in that guide, but fail. Especially dyrus's singed guide.
Reginalds vlad has won me many games... them playing vlad that is.
Maining leblanc has never been more fun. "I R NOT GOING TO USE Q ON MINIONS EVAR, ONLY TO HARASS!"
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On June 13 2011 07:20 Hynda wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2011 07:08 0123456789 wrote:
I love people who read solomid featured guides and try to copy exactlty what they do in that guide, but fail. Especially dyrus's singed guide. Reginalds vlad has won me many games... them playing vlad that is. Maining leblanc has never been more fun. "I R NOT GOING TO USE Q ON MINIONS EVAR, ONLY TO HARASS!"
Not to mention if people harass you with q, fail autos and have like 10 cs at level 6. =D
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On June 13 2011 07:47 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2011 07:20 Hynda wrote:On June 13 2011 07:08 0123456789 wrote:
I love people who read solomid featured guides and try to copy exactlty what they do in that guide, but fail. Especially dyrus's singed guide. Reginalds vlad has won me many games... them playing vlad that is. Maining leblanc has never been more fun. "I R NOT GOING TO USE Q ON MINIONS EVAR, ONLY TO HARASS!" Not to mention if people harass you with q, fail autos and have like 10 cs at level 6. =D Indeed and ofcourse being 0-3 by that time because "OMG LB SO OP". Standing in lane with 1/3 hp not using q to regen.
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CLG VS SK practice match on wickd/oce/hotshot/jiji's streams.
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United States37500 Posts
EG and TSM are scrimming too atm but no stream.
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haha "Oh fuck", quote of the day.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On June 13 2011 05:00 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2011 04:42 0123456789 wrote:
Lol at Rumble being the most OP and broken shit in the game. Are people starting to realize it yet? How long has he been out?
Rumble was released Patch 1.0.0.116, or back on April 26th. He was massively OP on release although the Design Team didn't fully comprehend just how OP he was until just after he was released on the Live Severs. As his Lead Designer put it, "People don't know how to play Rumble". The nerfs in Patch 1.0.0.118 and 1.0.0.118b definitely helped, but he's still pretty nuts. The upcoming Patch 1.0.0.120 will include even more nerfs for him because of how good he is. Not sure atm how much they'll affect his viability. His Q and Ult are just silly atm.
Also, it might be worth noting that every 4800 IP Champion so far has been pretty powerful...
On June 13 2011 06:52 spinesheath wrote:
Uh if you get matched against lvl 12+ in your first game, you can assume that they are actually STILL at the same skill level as the average lvl 1 player. Even with that tiny rune/mastery advantage. There's still some sort of matchmaking at low levels.
The matchmaking heuristic tries to prioritise your hidden Elo for Normal games more than it does the Summoner Lvl. It also balances around things like duos and assigns a 200 Elo advantage to those on the Blue side of the map.* For the most part, if you get matched up against a lvl 30 and you didn't duo it's because the matchmaking algorithm considers that lvl 30 player to be about your level despite having a rune/mastery advantage. This of course can't take into account a lvl 30 player tanking their own hidden Elo on purpose just to spite you. Sadly, modern heuristics aren't that advanced, lol.
For Ranked Matchmaking, if you're fresh into ranked games you get placed in what is referred to as "Newbie Island" for your first 10 games. Here, you can only be faced against other people who are also valid for "Newbie Island". It's supposed to protect you against people who have played loads of games but are, say properly 1300 Elo (and thus would still be eligible to face your fresh 1200 Elo Summoner). If you duo queue with someone who is not valid for "Newbie Island" then this does not necessarily apply of course...
*The Blue side of the map on Summoner's Rift is considered advantageous. Why this is isn't clearly defined. It might have something to do with the better camera angle (attacking up is easier in the laning phase as the HUD doesn't block your view and is more intuitive), it's easier to escape from dragon flashing over the wall especially if you're solo-ing it, and the attack path into Baron is considered better. The analysis of all games that the Design Team did concluded this advantage was worth ~200 Elo so the matchmaker assigns the appropriate weight to the team who has Blue.
Also, when you're in Champion Select, the words "Your Team" and "Enemy Team" will have a light blue/purple haze behind them which represent which side you spawn as. Just FYI.
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United States37500 Posts
For the record, I hate the Blue/Purple team color scheme. They're so close...
Should be Red/Blue imoimo.
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iirc, the advantage is 20 Elo, not 200. 200 would be pretty massive, even split 5 ways.
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On June 13 2011 11:28 Niton wrote:
iirc, the advantage is 20 Elo, not 200. 200 would be pretty massive, even split 5 ways.
200 split 5 ways is 40 elo per person. Which really isn't all that much. I have no idea how the ELO weighting works tho...
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I don't think a 200 elo advantage is massive, especially at the lower elos where everyone is a massive jumble of somewhat unskilled, unskilled, awful, horrible, somewhat good but messes around and afks, somewhat good but just does their own thing.. etc, and there are so many variables of how things can go wrong for either team that I don't think elo can be a good indicator of... anything
ELO probably isn't the correct way to rate either, Magic uses it and most people consider it an awful indicator of skill, just an indicator of if you were on a good run. The problem is that Magic and League of Legends(at least solo que) have a luck factor to them that is out of your control. Chess, does not, if someone is better than you in chess by a significant margin(or rating for this case), they will win 100% of the time.
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On June 13 2011 11:36 BlueBird. wrote:
Chess, does not, if someone is better than you in chess by a significant margin(or rating for this case), they will win 100% of the time.
There is a large amount of uncertainty surrounding someone's skill level at the lower levels of ELO in both games. The rate at which someone makes bad decisions can vary wildly, because they don't have the information necessary to know whether or not a a decision is good/bad in a large number of scenarios. It comes down to a coin flip.
As you improve your game and your ELO rises, it is a result of knowing what the correct decision is to make in a wider variety of scenarios. This is the essence of why someone who is stuck in "ELO Hell" can fluctuate +- 300 ELO easily, more situations in which they're flipping a coin rather than making the proper decision.
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On June 13 2011 10:33 MoonBear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2011 05:00 spinesheath wrote:On June 13 2011 04:42 0123456789 wrote:
Lol at Rumble being the most OP and broken shit in the game. Are people starting to realize it yet? How long has he been out? Rumble was released Patch 1.0.0.116, or back on April 26th. He was massively OP on release although the Design Team didn't fully comprehend just how OP he was until just after he was released on the Live Severs. As his Lead Designer put it, "People don't know how to play Rumble". The nerfs in Patch 1.0.0.118 and 1.0.0.118b definitely helped, but he's still pretty nuts. The upcoming Patch 1.0.0.120 will include even more nerfs for him because of how good he is. Not sure atm how much they'll affect his viability. His Q and Ult are just silly atm. Also, it might be worth noting that every 4800 IP Champion so far has been pretty powerful... Show nested quote +On June 13 2011 06:52 spinesheath wrote:
Uh if you get matched against lvl 12+ in your first game, you can assume that they are actually STILL at the same skill level as the average lvl 1 player. Even with that tiny rune/mastery advantage. There's still some sort of matchmaking at low levels. The matchmaking heuristic tries to prioritise your hidden Elo for Normal games more than it does the Summoner Lvl. It also balances around things like duos and assigns a 200 Elo advantage to those on the Blue side of the map. * For the most part, if you get matched up against a lvl 30 and you didn't duo it's because the matchmaking algorithm considers that lvl 30 player to be about your level despite having a rune/mastery advantage. This of course can't take into account a lvl 30 player tanking their own hidden Elo on purpose just to spite you. Sadly, modern heuristics aren't that advanced, lol. Then one can asked why such a must have spell as flash is locked if the players are just going to have to go up against it while not being able to pick it themselves. Just places them in a frustrating situation. Not complaining btw, it just feels weird. Since it's hardly the most frustrating things these guys faces, I don't envy those new to the game going up against smurfs like myself. And I do realise that it's impossible to get a perfect system. For us it didn't work since he was always faced with at least 3 level 30's when playing with my main, but as it is now I can pretty much roflstomp any game I sign up for but at least he gets a decent lane that fits his skill level.
I'm eagerly awaiting the new brainscan before each game so the best possible match could be found.
it's 6 am, I do realise you need a cipher to even begin understand the horribleness of this level of English.
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Flash is a great spell but it's advanced for someone completely new to the game. I remember I didn't even know how to use flash when I was like, lvl 20 or so. I was so bad lol. (although at that time I did main kayle with ignite + ghost so....) I had to practice with it a lot. Plus if you're a good player and just made a new account to smurf it would be kind of op using it. Considering they use ELO even then to decide matches, those good players smurfing would be out of the lower lvl summoner ranges ELO (lvl 1-10) by the time they're lvl 12 so it usually shouldn't matter in that example. That's where I see the reasoning (also why you can't use it until lvl 12 - more gaes to get your ELO up and above the newer players).
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Less skill = higher variance
More aggressive approach = higher variance, but usually higher winrate longterm than passive approaches if you're used to it
To be honest the scales between tight <-> loose and passive <-> aggressive like they are applied in poker fit perfectly to LoL or any similar game.
Players who go for really small edges by playing as aggressive as possible (Reginald is an example here) will sometimes have very bad runs because they'd take a 55/45 any day of the month. However, these are also usually the people who dominate pretty hard if they do because they take advantage of so many small things and force their way of playstyle onto you.
People keep wondering why e.g. Reginalds AD carry runes dont work for most others. Imho the answer is quite simple: The most common approach to this game once you're past the "braindead levels" (even at high elo, CLG is a perfect example here) is somewhat tight-aggressive. Don't take risks, rely on your ability to defend against aggression. Farm up, make as few mistakes as possible. Punish mistakes if you see some big ones, but don't try to force them.
The "loose-aggressive" approach (and I'm throwing Reginald in there) tries to take reasonable risks and to put as much pressure as possible on the other guy. Trade safety in most aspects (e.g. runes) for the ability to punish every slight mistake. This in return leads to more mistakes from the other side because his comfort zone is his more passive play and he's forced into something he's not used to to that extent.
Tight/loose
Too tight:
-End's up not taking chances to punish people because "Hey, i can just farm instead, that's much safer"
-In general misses lots of opportunities but will actually seem "solid" on the first look because he doesn't make big mistakes either.
Too loose:
-End's up trying to push too small or bad edges
-Puts punishing people too much over his own gain (aka farm)
-In general ends up in bad shape against people who somewhat know how to defend themselves
-If he's on a run he will crush you because he's constantly overestimating himself
Aggressive/Passive
Too passive:
-Rarely tries to punish anything
-Gets bullied because he rarely fights back, if he does he does it in bad spots
Too aggressive:
-Follows too far on his "killer instinct". No, him getting away with 50hp was not his luck, it was your bad decision.
-Has tendencies to feed when behind and to rape face when ahead.
-If he's ahead, you're in bad shape.
Some examples of common high elo people thrown into categories:
LAG: Reginald, Westrice
TAG: TheOddone, (probably) Elementz, HotshotGG
I actually didn't want to make that long of a post and only comment on that elo topic above, however, I got in the mood.
Random notes:
-You will never be good at any game with passive approaches
-You won't find the right balance if you never play too aggressive or too loose than you should do.
-Both LAG/TAG are suitable up to the highest ranks of play while each has its own merits/flaws. e.g. strong LAGs have a tendency to create upsets, recover, or throw away advantages while strong TAGs are very hard to deal with when it's about "pure, solid gameplay".
-This thoughtprocess applies to any game or activity with imperfect information.
Feel free to comment, I'm no god, just someone who dived very deep into game theory and the psychology behind it.
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I honestly think that Tiamat is the next op thing. It's got decent stats but the passive is so hella op for pushing.
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On June 13 2011 13:02 HazMat wrote:
I honestly think that Tiamat is the next op thing. It's got decent stats but the passive is so hella op for pushing.
Meh. I think they should make Tiamat build out of Philo Stones. Then it'll be FotM in no time :D
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On June 13 2011 13:02 HazMat wrote:
I honestly think that Tiamat is the next op thing. It's got decent stats but the passive is so hella op for pushing.
but there are lots of characters that can push phenomenally already. do you really think it's gonna be worthwhile to build tiamat on the champs that struggle to quickly push a lane even if you delay items that make them effective at their actual role? or on the flip side, why bother building tiamat on a champ that already has the ability to sweep down a minion wave, by the time it's relevant their skills can do the job
maybe just throw out a shortlist of champs you think it'd be gosu on
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EPT
