Well Jarv is #1 OP atm and is ripe for a nerf, so not arguing there, just saying, of all heroes in the game, I can see a well-played Cass blowing the shit out of a Jarv, especially most Jarv players because they're riding an OP hero with no idea what they're actually doing (iow. they suck).

Mogwai

United States13274 Posts

June 01 2011 19:25 GMT

#16162

the fact that 95% of the players who choose Jarman have no idea wtf they're doing is the only thing that has kept him from being nerfed into oblivion already.

Southlight

United States11768 Posts

June 01 2011 19:26 GMT

#16163

Well Riot also felt that his mana pool was his problem, 'cuz you know.

Edit:
It's okay we can take solace in that they fixed TF really quickly.
Like after 5 months or something.
How long has Jarv been out?

Edit2:
March, you've got two more months at Riot speed!

Mogwai

United States13274 Posts

June 01 2011 19:29 GMT

#16164

Pantheon's last moment in the sun lasted like, 2 months, max

Southlight

United States11768 Posts

June 01 2011 19:30 GMT

#16165

Well that's cause Pantheon was Udyr 2. They thought he was underpowered, buffed him, realized he wasn't actually underpowered, reverted to release status, then realized that release status was fucking stupid, but refused to admit it, changed something completely unrelated, then realized they were wrong, nerfed him, then realized it wasn't enough, and neutered him.

0123456789

United States3216 Posts

June 01 2011 19:33 GMT

#16166

COMBOBREAKER!

Fuck Pantheon, it's all about nerfing Corki's mana costs so he can spam his spells in the earlier levels, and so he doesn't have to buy manamune for mana. Mana is so OVERRATED AND SO BETA! Nobody buys items for mana. Corki's the only person that needs an item to compensate for mana. Urgot doesn't even need that shit, if you use your spells smart. Riot needs to stop wasting time on champions that nobody will buy skins for(coughpanteponcoughorwhateverhisnameis), or play, just buff corki since every1 buys a corki skin.

Mogwai

United States13274 Posts

June 01 2011 19:36 GMT

#16167

No they:

1. thought he was underpowered
2. realized he wasn't
3. realized they left a bug in there for like 6 months without doing anything about it (lolourbad)
4. took the bug out and buffed the numbers to ludicrous values to compensate
5. realized that was stupid in time to remove HSS from the game in time for season 1. Slight buffs to Q and W to compensate.
6. thought he was underpowered again
7. Locicero gets to top 10 on the ladder playing almost only Pantheon, maybe he's ok
8. let's buff him anyway
9. whoops, nerfs
10-13. nerfs, nerfs, nerfs, nerfs, nerfs, nerfs, nerfs, nerfs, nerfs
14. what's a pantheon?
15. SmashGizmo's fanart thread

Southlight

United States11768 Posts

June 01 2011 19:38 GMT

#16168

1. thought he was underpowered
2. buffed all his skills
3. whoops it was just that no one bought him
4. hot-fix (yes, hot-fix) to nerf his damage
5. buffed q
6. 3 months pass
7. buff his shit again
8. wait he's really stupid, take item out of game
9. he's still stupid, nerf his skils
10. he's still stupid, kill R buff Q
11. he's still stupid

MoonBear

Straight outta Johto18973 Posts

June 01 2011 19:45 GMT

#16169

Cass has a powerful skillset and can do some pretty high damage if played right. From Twin Fangs alone she can do insane levels of damage. With 400 AP and attacking a poisoned target, it's like 800dps(!).

The main problem with her is that her skill-effectiveness+output ratio is quite high. That is, to do achieve the same average result as another AP carry, you need comparatively more skill than an average AP carry player. However, in return, she has a higher potential power ceiling and more greater potential horizontal growth compared to a lot of other champions.

It's because of this that you don't see many good Cass players and hence Cass is considered UP when she's pretty good. In some ways think of it like Nidalee. For the most part, she's not top-tier instant pick/ban material. But in the hands of someone really good like HSGG, you will ban her or he will 1v5 your team single-handedly.

Mogwai

United States13274 Posts

June 01 2011 19:46 GMT

#16170

Udyr's so far from stupid right now IMO. He gets kited to death by like, every single ranged carry right now, it's so sad

Southlight

United States11768 Posts

June 01 2011 19:50 GMT

#16171

Yeah they nerfed Udyr by making everyone teleport/jump. Same nerf as Kassadin.

SQWKZ

Finland720 Posts

June 01 2011 19:55 GMT

#16172

Lolol, finally felt the opness for myself when playing Jarman. I mean like really being unstoppable.

What is, in the opinion of TL's Jarman specialists, the way he should be "toned down"(or "nerfed to the ground", "made obsolete", and what have you)? Would a costlier Q, and lowering the E passive benefits be enough? Or maybe just make him deal no damage, with a focus on tanking and CC+support? I really fear Riot will mess up with him, but he is so fun to play.

Mogwai

United States13274 Posts

June 01 2011 19:59 GMT

#16173

His passive needs to do less damage, his Q needs to do less damage, his E needs to do less damage. You can't throw 3 AoE CCs onto a character that has tank-level base damages on his nukes with AD carry level scaling on his nukes and expect him to be fair.

Southlight

United States11768 Posts

June 01 2011 19:59 GMT

#16174

His passive is stupid, and his damage as a whole needs to be toned down like Renekton to scale with AD but have low base. You'd have to hit his damage hard because he has so much utility to begin with (three forms of CC + debuffs and buffs + mass AoE).

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

June 01 2011 20:16 GMT

#16175

On June 02 2011 04:59 Mogwai wrote:
His passive needs to do less damage, his Q needs to do less damage, his E needs to do less damage. You can't throw 3 AoE CCs onto a character that has tank-level base damages on his nukes with AD carry level scaling on his nukes and expect him to be fair.

I don't even know how Riot thought that was remotely OK. He has comparable amounts of CC to Janna--and also does a ton of damage and is hard to kill? The "hard to kill" part is less bad by itself because the nature of all 3 of his CCs requires him to get in close to use them, but combining that with high damage output is just bad news.

"Let's start with a kit comparable to one that's been arguably OP at multiple points in the past, and make that kit EVEN STRONGER!"

unichan

United States4223 Posts

June 01 2011 20:46 GMT

#16176

this is caller IRL

hasuprotoss

United States4664 Posts

June 01 2011 21:02 GMT

#16177

So while watching Rain Man's stream his team as upper right put a ward in Baron... that showed absolutely nothing. I have no idea how to describe it, but there's a ward just in Baron's cave that doesn't actually have any vision. Really weird.

Chrispy

Canada5878 Posts

June 01 2011 21:07 GMT

#16178

Yeah... I was in that game. We were going to do dragon and then I Nunu appeared on the minimap, I looked at Baron and saw it had 4k hp. Then Janna cv'd and everyone was there.

That was soooo dumb.