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On April 21 2011 18:43 Iplaythings wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2011 18:39 BluzMan wrote:On April 21 2011 18:11 WaveofShadow wrote:On April 21 2011 17:48 Chrispy wrote:
Mehhh right now it just feels right to ban the really annoying heroes like Zilean and Shen. I don't think they're absolute ban worthy, but they're both good enough and are really annoying so they might as well be banned. The only champ I think that is really game changing right now is Eve and to some extent Alistar because a good roamer and a bot lane that doesn't know how to 2v1 is a realllllly big advantage. What other champs are able to roam besides Alistar and Eve? I've wanted to try roaming for a while but at my ELO (1100 and climbing  ) it seems as though roaming is much like jungling in that if your team doesn't know how to take advantage of it, you will lose. Poopy. blitz taric janna
Starting to get into somewhat poorer choices, but
Maokai
Twitch
Pantheon Mog says bad idea
Lux
Leblanc (probably not a good idea, but it can work)
Really, just about anyone is able to roam. Some of them are just much better: Alistar because he's really good without items or levels, Eve because she has a stealth+stun and decent burst, Poppy because she can't farm in lane anyways, Blitz because hitting grab is easier when people don't even know you're there, Taric because point-and-click stun and heal, etc. The best roamers don't need gold (or wouldn't get any in lane anyways), have good burst, at least one disable, and some means of recovery.
I'm pretty sure no one roams better than Alistar, though. Pulverize + Headbutt is crazy, especially if someone else has a stun to set you up.
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Pantheon is one of the worst roaming ideas I have ever heard. What pray tell is Pantheon going to do when he's level 7 in a game full of level 11s? When he also has no farm. And his early level ganks rely on a 0.7 second stun (real stun duration).
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I don't see the concept behind roaming poppy. I mean she's really useless later on if underleveled/underfarmed. Ofc she's not the best farmer but with some decent babysitting she should be able to at least get more gold/exp than with roaming.
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What? Poppy only needs a sheen to do monster damage, and ult/passive means you can survive a long time in a teamfight. I roam poppy sometimes just because of how damn funny it is.
As roaming poppy you want to have teammates that can setup a wall stun and generally be a living nightmare for their jungler. When teamfighting, you want to make it impossible for their carry to do any damage and probably kill him.
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United States37500 Posts
Roaming poppy is legit, even more so once level 6. But you definitely need one, if not two, Philo Stones to offset the lack of farming until lanes shift due to towers going down.
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On April 21 2011 23:56 Mogwai wrote:
Pantheon is one of the worst roaming ideas I have ever heard. What pray tell is Pantheon going to do when he's level 7 in a game full of level 11s? When he also has no farm. And his early level ganks rely on a 0.7 second stun (real stun duration).
As much as he does level 11 in a game full of level 11s?
You know Panth much better than me, obviously. I just thought his early damage and a blink-stun would make him decent at it. I guess a lot of it is attrition though.
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United States37500 Posts
On April 22 2011 00:30 Tooplark wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2011 23:56 Mogwai wrote:
Pantheon is one of the worst roaming ideas I have ever heard. What pray tell is Pantheon going to do when he's level 7 in a game full of level 11s? When he also has no farm. And his early level ganks rely on a 0.7 second stun (real stun duration). As much as he does level 11 in a game full of level 11s? You know Panth much better than me, obviously. I just thought his early damage and a blink-stun would make him decent at it. I guess a lot of it is attrition though.
Main requirement for Roamers is that they are ok with a massive delay on farm. You analyze this by looking at their kit. Alistar is king. 2 CC and a "cleanse" Ulti to get him out of bad situations. Taric has a hard stun and heal. Janna has Slow, Knock Up and shield. You get the picture. Skills make the roamer sufficient until later when the team gives him an open lane to farm and catch up.
Panth has only a stun and is innately a squishy dps. Without farm, his Q and E are shit, since they scale with AD. Panth needs farm to get the items he needs for DPS (Ghostblade) and hp (Giant's belt) so he isn't insta-gibbed when he goes in for the stun.
[Edit: from your list, Maokai has the potential to be a real good roamer, though no one has maximized his utility yet. Twitch is a subpar Eve with no CC]
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Ah, that makes sense.
What makes Poppy a good roamer, then?
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imo poppy is a fail roamer, why do you think shes good
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United States37500 Posts
On April 22 2011 00:43 Tooplark wrote:
Ah, that makes sense.
What makes Poppy a good roamer, then?
omgwtf burst, real king in jungle with all those walls for stun (and hey, she has shit farm in lane anyways, so delaying is ok. She loves those open lanes to farm during lane game.). Also omgwtf passive: always kill, always get away, never die.
With two Philo Stones, you get "secondary" income as well as regen. So you can bide your time while roaming, don't have to back. So it's like a passive heal that lets you roam longer than other roamers, like Ali or Taric, who lose hp/mp over time.
[Edit: to be accurate, she's more of a counter-jungle than a roamer. But if you know how to initiate on top and especially bottom lane (the opportunities of enemy champions hugging bottom brush/wall is much higher than in top lane), then you will do fine as a Roamer. Yes, she seems like a weaker roamer because of a lack of hard CC if you don't have a wall but jebus that Devastating Strike. Real ghey.]
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What makes Poppy a good roamer is that she has no lane presence whatsoever. Poppy can't farm fast, can't really solo. and just gets auto attack harassed to death. In the time you get to 6 in lane, you will have little to no farm. The way that Poppy farms is to go kill other ppl, which roaming promotes. Combine that with philo stone stacking for gold and thanks to that regen and low hp from little lvls, you passive is alot stronger.
She also has:
a melee that does a percentage of a persons hp (q)
a small ghost (w)
a situational flash (e)
best towerdiving, never die, always kill, live forever ulti
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Mmm well I guess the fact that Q only needs 1 point for most of the utility helps with the roaming.
EDIT: Sigh, just got totally destroyed by jungle Eve(she can still jungle wtf?). I'm cassiopeia vs Karthus, every time I step forward from like the front of my tower it's Eve stun -> wall and they kill me before I can flash. When I placed vision wards their Soraka just came with Oracle and they removed them every time... At the end team scores 3-22.
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On April 22 2011 00:53 Shikyo wrote:
Mmm well I guess the fact that Q only needs 1 point for most of the utility helps with the roaming.
EDIT: Sigh, just got totally destroyed by jungle Eve(she can still jungle wtf?). I'm cassiopeia vs Karthus, every time I step forward from like the front of my tower it's Eve stun -> wall and they kill me before I can flash. When I placed vision wards their Soraka just came with Oracle and they removed them every time... At the end team scores 3-22.
Well of course she still can "jungle". My guess is she just took a camp or two (blue is easy with team to help for anyone with smite). Then she focused on ganking and since she got a couple of easy kills she could do whatever she wanted.
Anyone can jungle once they have Razors, but getting there as Eve is awfully slow and risky. If you try to jungle her full time, you get really low on HP and mana, even with blue buff (and flat mana glyphs lol). If you get the money for Razors/Wriggles from early ganks, Eve can jungle nicely.
Poppy has huge lane presence IF she has a fitting lane mate. If you just lane her together with a random champ, chances are it will suck.
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stealth es #1 design, es always balance.
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
Also Poppy is like the best champion fit for Philosopher's Stone. She needs mana regen like no tomorrow (and has little use for tear) and she has great synergy with HP regen because of how her passive works.
Like, today I've been laning vs a Mordekaiser, he ulted me, I was left with 50 hp and then we both watched how my HP just doesn't change. Must have been very frustrating for him lol.
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poppy's such a stupid fucking bitch, I hope she dies in a fire.
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poppy is really op, her passive is just so stupid strong and her damage is too high and she runs too fast. Her survivability is just too high for the damage she deals.
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How would one build a roaming Eve though? I've tried building her regularly (Sheen/Wriggle's?) To start but her burst is rarely enough to do much of anything but add 150 or so damage until she picks up that sheen or hits level 5 (max E first for burst?), both of which take a while BECAUSE SHE IS ROAMING. And by level 5 if you haven't gotten a proper gank or sent people back it's going to be even harder to do so since others will be level 7+--->snowball effect to sucky Eve.
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Doesn't really matter if your damage is on the weak side. The idea is to terror lanes until your solos are massively ahead and then you get the freefarm to catchup after they're off winning the game.
Your runes should err towards tankiness. Some HP quints and MR blues at the very least. You're going to be a couple of levels behind so having some baseline tankiness means you can't just get burst + ignited everytime you come up to gank.
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But...but..."Roaming isn't the metagame" !! lololol God I love some TLers so much.
Yeah with roaming even boots of mobility and sheen is all you really need for eve. You just run around being an ass and making enemy solos give up cs or simply just outright lose their lane because they fear you'll always be there (and you can be with mobility boots). Later you can farm up triforce + some tank items and be real op once some lanes are pushed down. You're also great at counter jungling thanks to your stealth.
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EPT
