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Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
November 15 2010 20:12 GMT
#681
Mm had yet another game where Kerp is legendary as jungling Yi before 10 minutes. Game ended with a score like 28-2. >_> This is fun.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Goshawk.
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United Kingdom5338 Posts
November 15 2010 20:12 GMT
#682
"Champion Rotation 15th November: Fiddlesticks, Morgana, Nunu, Sion, Sivir, Teemo, Zilean, Nidalee, Garen, LeBlanc"

Pretty sucky rotation. >_<
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
November 15 2010 20:14 GMT
#683
OMG I GET TO PLAY THE CAPTAIN ON MY SMURF!? FUCKING BOSS YO.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
red_
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8474 Posts
November 15 2010 20:20 GMT
#684
I was hoping it wouldn't rotate until tomorrow, I needed to get in an IE/LW Ryze game.
How did the experience of working at Mr Burns' Nuclear Plant influence Homer's composition of the Iliad and Odyssey?
Tooplark
Profile Joined October 2008
United States3977 Posts
November 15 2010 20:23 GMT
#685
On November 16 2010 05:12 Goshawk. wrote:
"Champion Rotation 15th November: Fiddlesticks, Morgana, Nunu, Sion, Sivir, Teemo, Zilean, Nidalee, Garen, LeBlanc"

Pretty sucky rotation. >_<


OH YESSS the inhouse winner's game is gonna be SO AWESOME

So Mog, I was thinking about your GP/Panth top lane strat:
First, why no jungler? Why not have one person go 1v2 in bottom? You'll at least have some semblance of dragon control. In fact, why not have one of the top laners grab teleport?
Second, Zilean might make a good addition to capitalize on the xp differential and for the synergy with two melee chars.
Third, Ashe.
Fourth, Nidalee?
WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW
red_
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8474 Posts
November 15 2010 20:31 GMT
#686
On November 16 2010 05:23 Tooplark wrote:

First, why no jungler? Why not have one person go 1v2 in bottom? You'll at least have some semblance of dragon control.


Does not compute? A 1v2 lane bottom(how would you be 1v2 with no jungler.. it'd be 2v1 top, 1v1 mid, 2v2 bot, but I digress) is the opposite of 'some semblance of dragon control.' Even someone like Morg who can prevent the tower from being pushed with pool, will still never push out on the lane to go assist a dragon fight.
How did the experience of working at Mr Burns' Nuclear Plant influence Homer's composition of the Iliad and Odyssey?
Tooplark
Profile Joined October 2008
United States3977 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-15 20:43:07
November 15 2010 20:42 GMT
#687
Ok, the idea Mogwai had is that maybe a strong 2v1 lane top abusing GP pulling creeps + a strong 1v1 champion (Pantheon in this example) could counter the absurd solo freefarm that top lane currently is. The idea as I originally remember it had no one jungling, though, and I wanted to know why.
and yes, it would have been 2/1/2 in lanes
WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
November 15 2010 20:49 GMT
#688
On November 16 2010 05:23 Tooplark wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2010 05:12 Goshawk. wrote:
"Champion Rotation 15th November: Fiddlesticks, Morgana, Nunu, Sion, Sivir, Teemo, Zilean, Nidalee, Garen, LeBlanc"

Pretty sucky rotation. >_<


OH YESSS the inhouse winner's game is gonna be SO AWESOME

So Mog, I was thinking about your GP/Panth top lane strat:
First, why no jungler? Why not have one person go 1v2 in bottom? You'll at least have some semblance of dragon control. In fact, why not have one of the top laners grab teleport?
Second, Zilean might make a good addition to capitalize on the xp differential and for the synergy with two melee chars.
Third, Ashe.
Fourth, Nidalee?

1v2s don't really work

ever

I dunno why people don't run no jungler and just shit on a solo lane more often, but I digress. The whole reason for Panth + GP is to make it even worse so that it can get bad enough that GP can solo deny after a few minutes of taking a big ol' dump on them. Rather than just denying like, 50-75% of the exp and 100% of the gold like a typical 2v1, you'd be able to deny 100% of everything. Then GP gets beefy enough to solo do it and Pantheon starts roaming. The idea with 0 jungler from the getgo is to keep your lanes from losing. You want mid and bot to do well enough to get by and you want your top to be lightyears ahead of their top. As Bot pushes, you want to leave 1 person on the lane to get the exp and have the other one roam around and jungle. Essentially the whole point is to immediately screw top over and then start establishing jungle control through 2 part-time roamers who go nuts with wards, 1 from top (Panth) and 1 from bot (someone tanky, I think Shen is best for this).

You establish dragon control through warding early and often and having 2 people with smite (your roamers). After the super early game you abuse excessive warding and 2 or 3 teleports + a few global ults (and 2 roamers who are picking off opposing jungle camps whenever it's safe) to systematically fuck their jungler over and then start pushing all the lanes to abuse the excessive mobility that such a team would have. I dunno, it's all theorycraft, but I think such a setup could really dick people over and essentially make the game a 3v5 at the timing you'd be setting up your big multilane push.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
November 15 2010 20:51 GMT
#689
On November 16 2010 05:49 Mogwai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2010 05:23 Tooplark wrote:
On November 16 2010 05:12 Goshawk. wrote:
"Champion Rotation 15th November: Fiddlesticks, Morgana, Nunu, Sion, Sivir, Teemo, Zilean, Nidalee, Garen, LeBlanc"

Pretty sucky rotation. >_<


OH YESSS the inhouse winner's game is gonna be SO AWESOME

So Mog, I was thinking about your GP/Panth top lane strat:
First, why no jungler? Why not have one person go 1v2 in bottom? You'll at least have some semblance of dragon control. In fact, why not have one of the top laners grab teleport?
Second, Zilean might make a good addition to capitalize on the xp differential and for the synergy with two melee chars.
Third, Ashe.
Fourth, Nidalee?

1v2s don't really work

ever

I dunno why people don't run no jungler and just shit on a solo lane more often, but I digress. The whole reason for Panth + GP is to make it even worse so that it can get bad enough that GP can solo deny after a few minutes of taking a big ol' dump on them. Rather than just denying like, 50-75% of the exp and 100% of the gold like a typical 2v1, you'd be able to deny 100% of everything. Then GP gets beefy enough to solo do it and Pantheon starts roaming. The idea with 0 jungler from the getgo is to keep your lanes from losing. You want mid and bot to do well enough to get by and you want your top to be lightyears ahead of their top. As Bot pushes, you want to leave 1 person on the lane to get the exp and have the other one roam around and jungle. Essentially the whole point is to immediately screw top over and then start establishing jungle control through 2 part-time roamers who go nuts with wards, 1 from top (Panth) and 1 from bot (someone tanky, I think Shen is best for this).

You establish dragon control through warding early and often and having 2 people with smite (your roamers). After the super early game you abuse excessive warding and 2 or 3 teleports + a few global ults (and 2 roamers who are picking off opposing jungle camps whenever it's safe) to systematically fuck their jungler over and then start pushing all the lanes to abuse the excessive mobility that such a team would have. I dunno, it's all theorycraft, but I think such a setup could really dick people over and essentially make the game a 3v5 at the timing you'd be setting up your big multilane push.


Uh, why don't we try this more? Tonight? huk
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Tooplark
Profile Joined October 2008
United States3977 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-15 21:02:30
November 15 2010 21:00 GMT
#690
On November 16 2010 05:49 Mogwai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2010 05:23 Tooplark wrote:
On November 16 2010 05:12 Goshawk. wrote:
"Champion Rotation 15th November: Fiddlesticks, Morgana, Nunu, Sion, Sivir, Teemo, Zilean, Nidalee, Garen, LeBlanc"

Pretty sucky rotation. >_<


OH YESSS the inhouse winner's game is gonna be SO AWESOME

So Mog, I was thinking about your GP/Panth top lane strat:
First, why no jungler? Why not have one person go 1v2 in bottom? You'll at least have some semblance of dragon control. In fact, why not have one of the top laners grab teleport?
Second, Zilean might make a good addition to capitalize on the xp differential and for the synergy with two melee chars.
Third, Ashe.
Fourth, Nidalee?

1v2s don't really work

ever

I dunno why people don't run no jungler and just shit on a solo lane more often, but I digress. The whole reason for Panth + GP is to make it even worse so that it can get bad enough that GP can solo deny after a few minutes of taking a big ol' dump on them. Rather than just denying like, 50-75% of the exp and 100% of the gold like a typical 2v1, you'd be able to deny 100% of everything. Then GP gets beefy enough to solo do it and Pantheon starts roaming. The idea with 0 jungler from the getgo is to keep your lanes from losing. You want mid and bot to do well enough to get by and you want your top to be lightyears ahead of their top. As Bot pushes, you want to leave 1 person on the lane to get the exp and have the other one roam around and jungle. Essentially the whole point is to immediately screw top over and then start establishing jungle control through 2 part-time roamers who go nuts with wards, 1 from top (Panth) and 1 from bot (someone tanky, I think Shen is best for this).

You establish dragon control through warding early and often and having 2 people with smite (your roamers). After the super early game you abuse excessive warding and 2 or 3 teleports + a few global ults (and 2 roamers who are picking off opposing jungle camps whenever it's safe) to systematically fuck their jungler over and then start pushing all the lanes to abuse the excessive mobility that such a team would have. I dunno, it's all theorycraft, but I think such a setup could really dick people over and essentially make the game a 3v5 at the timing you'd be setting up your big multilane push.


Can you explain why 1v2 doesn't work to me? I remember a lot of "X champ is a good 1v2" discussion some time ago but I don't remember if that was high-ELO applicable at all.

Also, do all high elo games have a strong 2v2 composition bot? I remember the WCG games I watched all had that. Is there any place in the game for weak laners/junglers?

So do you just give up jungle control for the first few levels and only block dragon? Or do you attempt to stop their jungler from getting into your jungle?
Also, Zilean or Janna seems really appealing for this setup: +xp deals somewhat with being underleveled and haste/ult can help with the escaping aspect; janna is a great pusher/escape artist and the ms passive would be very useful
WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
November 15 2010 21:04 GMT
#691
not high elo applicable at all. At high elo the 2 just don't last hit and 100% zone the opponent until the lane naturally pushes. This is true for basically any 2 vs. any 1 as far as I can tell (can't think of a single example to the contrary assuming proper play from the 2 tbh). Basically, if the 2 just let the guy farm or even stay in exp range, eventually it's like, a level 6 vs. 2 level 4s which is win/draw able for the solo, but 2 levels 1s >>>>> 1 level 1 so you just abuse the ever loving crap out of that and make their life hell.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
November 15 2010 21:34 GMT
#692
we banned jazriel
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
Ruken
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States858 Posts
November 15 2010 21:36 GMT
#693
I still say Nasus is the strongest 1v2 if it comes down to it. It's not optimal but I really don't think you can deny him that hard. Would love to test vs 2 good panth/plank players.
MIK Terran
BloodNinja
Profile Joined June 2010
United States2791 Posts
November 15 2010 21:36 GMT
#694
On November 16 2010 06:34 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
we banned jazriel

Yes, he is banned. I believe this was covered in the apology thread where the post that got him banned appeared.
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
November 15 2010 21:40 GMT
#695
On November 16 2010 06:36 Ruken wrote:
I still say Nasus is the strongest 1v2 if it comes down to it. It's not optimal but I really don't think you can deny him that hard. Would love to test vs 2 good panth/plank players.

I really don't think you would, LOL.

I dunno, maybe Chrispy and I can give you a 1 way ticket to the pain cave if you really want, but goddamn dude, it's not gonna be pretty.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
myopia
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2928 Posts
November 15 2010 21:42 GMT
#696
Last time I tried a Nasus 1v2 I got zoned by MF/Jax. Pirate/Manth is gonna be much worse :|
it's my first day
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
November 15 2010 21:50 GMT
#697
On November 16 2010 06:34 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
we banned jazriel

yep, so now I gotta deal with his bullshit over on smashboards QQ.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Juicyfruit
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada5484 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-15 22:08:02
November 15 2010 22:01 GMT
#698
The only champs with any semblence of 1v2'ability are the stealthies like twitch and eve. Even then, you need help ripping up vision wards anytime they're put up.

Otherwise, you need some ridiculous starting build like rejuvination bead + 7 health potions with flat armor yellow + flat MR blue + HP quints + 21 defense, and maybe then you can have a shot at staying in exp range
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
November 15 2010 22:18 GMT
#699
against pirate and pantheon? good fucking luck.

stealth would be semi annoying until pirate backed to buy oracles or a ward.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
November 15 2010 22:21 GMT
#700
[image loading]

A rough start with kassadin losing mid to pantheon. He decides to feed even more and ward their main since he believes we lost, but after a narrow surrender vote where me and some other smart person vote no we proceed to ace them five times in a row to come back from having 2 inhibs down with only 2 of their towers to winning the game :0 Twitch+Sona+Mumu ults is imba ^_^
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
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