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On January 12 2011 02:17 spinesheath wrote:
There are many cases where you actually WANT someone to solo farm etc. instead of stay in a group. The whole stick together and win teamfights thing only works out if your composition is made for it, and is better than the enemy composition in teamfights.
Oh and all caps doesn't work. It's usually counter productive.
There are way more cases where you want the team to be grouped up over one guy afk farming. Even if you're afk farming, you can always rotate at important times like dragon fight, and then just go back. Dragon + kills + teamfight adv > few creeps, especially if your guy top rotated. One huge huge example is when enemy jungler gets bloodrazor, you have no ward at baron, and your guy is farming bot. Not even pushing back that shit and rotating, just farming that shit. He's not even the guy that needs to farm those minions. He's just there because he wants to "push" back the wave, but he's not really pushing back the wave, or getting all the creeps he's farming. Then, your team gets out of position with that guy farming bot, and is either forced to fight for baron 4v5 while the enemy team is doing it, facecheck and get raped, or have to give it up. By rotating and stuff, I'm actually implying more towawrds the mid-later game stages.
Oh, and Reginald with his all caps seems to work fine.
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I am just stating that you oversimplify the whole issue. If the wrong people are farming at the wrong times, then that's obviously bad. If you want to win though, you have to do more than just group up and teamfight. For example if I see a wave pushing towards one of our towers and there is no dragon/baron/etc imminent, then I often tell our carry (or whoever needs the farm at that moment), to go there and farm it. It's actually very important that you miss as little farm as possible. I also try to get the team close to baron/dragon whenever appropriate. But just grouping up and hoping that you can win a teamfight is too simple.
Reginald often has retardedly high kda and a well known name. Whether he types in caps or not doesn't matter at all.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TZ9F3l.jpg)
^_^
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On January 12 2011 01:35 Odds wrote:
Black cleaver is fucking boss on Trist
1st item imo, legit
New cleaver is fucking boss on EVERYONE. 4 recurve black cleaver + recurve.
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Hey, whatever happened to "Run fucking fast"?
On another note, I'm tempted to buy some gold/10sec quints and stack gold/10sec items for some hilarity.
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On January 12 2011 03:25 Nikon wrote:
Hey, whatever happened to "Run fucking fast"?
On another note, I'm tempted to buy some gold/10sec quints and stack gold/10sec items for some hilarity.
works pretty well on Fiddle imo, that fucker can't farm for shit
for the love of god if you are going to do that get HoG's and not kage's
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But if I stack Kages', I can get strong spells on a caster, while Farming Fucking Fast. Maybe I'll play Soraka too, should be pretty strong imo :3
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On January 12 2011 02:56 spinesheath wrote:
I am just stating that you oversimplify the whole issue. If the wrong people are farming at the wrong times, then that's obviously bad. If you want to win though, you have to do more than just group up and teamfight. For example if I see a wave pushing towards one of our towers and there is no dragon/baron/etc imminent, then I often tell our carry (or whoever needs the farm at that moment), to go there and farm it. It's actually very important that you miss as little farm as possible. I also try to get the team close to baron/dragon whenever appropriate. But just grouping up and hoping that you can win a teamfight is too simple.
Reginald often has retardedly high kda and a well known name. Whether he types in caps or not doesn't matter at all.
actually numbers is right for probably 95% of cases
as utahime once said (where is that guy anyways), "farm when you're down, fight when you're up"
so what numbers is saying is that BEFORE you get down (via the guy that won't join teamfights or the guy who feeds trying to 1v5) you need to be roaming as a team and taking team objectives in this team game. that's why in competitive organized fives, the game is essentially over if you can grab 2 dragons and be up a handful of kills. by sticking together as a stronger team you'll never give them an opportunity to crawl back into the game. if you're up you don't need to try to extend your advantage by farming, just press WITH your advantage.
that being said, i really enjoy playing on a 5s team with an assigned captain. i've found myself often wanting to do something dumb like farm after baron or solo push a lane and having Ruken tell me to get with the group really helps my game. in solo queue however all bets are off, i hate to say it numbers but i'm "that guy" :C
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80% of the time when one of my allies wants the team to stick together, it turns into a 10 man staring contest in mid. Which usually leads to someone trying to harrass and getting killed. More often than I would want that guy is on my team.
Basically you often can not force good fights if you stick toegther unless there is some objective like dragon or baron available. Instead, a 4+1 style with good ward coverage forces the enemy to do something that you can abuse (can't ignore 4 a man push, and can't allow an enemy to freefarm). Obviously you usually want your whole team for dragon/baron, but even that's not always the best idea. Shaco/Sivir/Panth/Shen/someone with teleport pushing on the other side of the map can once again put you in a favorable position.
If you're well ahead, sure, group up, take mid towers and finish it.
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On January 12 2011 04:39 spinesheath wrote:
80% of the time when one of my allies wants the team to stick together, it turns into a 10 man staring contest in mid. Which usually leads to someone trying to harrass and getting killed. More often than I would want that guy is on my team.
Basically you often can not force good fights if you stick toegther unless there is some objective like dragon or baron available. Instead, a 4+1 style with good ward coverage forces the enemy to do something that you can abuse (can't ignore 4 a man push, and can't allow an enemy to freefarm). Obviously you usually want your whole team for dragon/baron, but even that's not always the best idea. Shaco/Sivir/Panth/Shen/someone with teleport pushing on the other side of the map can once again put you in a favorable position.
If you're well ahead, sure, group up, take mid towers and finish it.
lol, you're getting the wrong idea here. What I meant was, there are people in this game who do not know the priorities of objectives in this game and you have to guide them and hold their hands throughout the entire game. Baron>Lane creeps. Enemy red buff with map control>lane creeps. Enemy blue buff with map control>lane creeps. Champion kills>lane creeps. Easier for you to understand? It's more like, when you have an advantage, abuse it. That's what gtrsrs has been saying. We're not talking about 5 man pushes mid when all towers and creeps are pushed back.
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I agree, and that's the definition of carrying to me, being able to control when and where the fights happen. If you can't convince your teammates to stay with you, you're probably not carrying them hard enough.
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I don't really disagree, I just had the impression that you were focusing too much on grouping up and teamfighting. I might just have misunderstood. I was just trying to make it clear that there are other ways to abuse or especially create an advantage than grouping up as 5.
I definitely also think that leading/commanding the team is the only reliable way to "carry" in this game. Which is also why I often carry pretty hard as Janna. Well that and zoning out 2 enemies while my ally freefarms without having to harrass at all. APen/Armor/MRes/HP Janna owns all those MPen/MP5/AP/whatever supports you run into on EU... sooo goood.
(I am always disappointed if someone else on my team plays Janna, no lane dominance whatsoever...)
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On January 12 2011 06:50 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
I agree, and that's the definition of carrying to me, being able to control when and where the fights happen. If you can't convince your teammates to stay with you, you're probably not carrying them hard enough.
I just had a game like this where it went really poorly for about 35 minutes, and my personal K/D was bad, but for some reason my teammates listened to me and we got back into the game by me warding all over our jungle and picking off stragglers. Then at some point I thought we could win a team fight so I forced it by Powerballing into a bush where I knew they were waiting thanks to wards. I had told the team I was going to do it beforehand, they accepted it and backed me up, and all of a sudden we aced them for only one death. People started to wander off to farm but I frantically pinged Baron, rolled over there and started it at only half health to make sure the team came. We got it, healed up, pushed mid, caught one out of position and proceeded to ace them again and take Nexus before they respawned. Even after the two aces we were behind in kills for the game by about 10, but the other team got overconfident and we worked together.
(Granted, I think it's easier to get your team to follow you and control when fights happen when you're playing Rammus.)
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That's why I like to play junglers, it's a lot easier to control the game when you're not stuck in a lane and can just show up where you want the team and make it clear to them that "oh hey I can get a kill if I go there".
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In other news, I'm convinced that the trick to playing shaco is having an ashe on your team.
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If only Rammus wasn't perm banned in every ranked game ^_^
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LoL is down for me right now
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Just pick Sivir. If you don't turn up to teamfights you get heaps of farm and a base tower, if you do you get a double/triple/quadra kill.
Better yet, pick teleport, pretend your going to teamfight and then TP to a pushed lane baiting your team into a 4v5, and tell your team they are welcome when you destroy the throne while they're getting killed.
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I'm sort of offended that the heavy thread got closed
It was bad, but not *that* bad
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Nowhere near as bad as half the idiotic threads posted by people who thought malady was the go-to item pre-change.
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EPT
