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Wormhole is a pretty specific example. Most talents don't require much practice at all to use.
What you gain is that you recognize when the "out of meta" talent is actually good. Bolt of the Storm might not win games at low levels (because players suck with it), but it's still the best pick to take against these players on a ton of heroes. So I wouldn't recommend a player blindly go Fury of the Storm on Zagara everytime, even though he'll likely win more often with it right now. What I'd recommend is for him to learn both, as Fury is really strong, even though most games Bolt is what you need.
Little Treant Guy seems like an exception to this, as playing with Elune's Grace is actually much easier, but it hurts your output. That's why I think it's a good talent to learn. At some point you might wish you had more range for better positioning, then the option is there. Then you can pick based on map/comps and you're now a much better player.
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United States4883 Posts
For the record, I would consider picking Assassin's Blade over Wormhole now after the nerfs ^^. xDaunt has had a lot of success with this as well.
Also, maybe I'm just not getting it, but I never have trouble with this "positioning" you guys talk about when you don't take Elune's Grace on Malfurion. In fact, I don't seem to have much trouble in keeping Malfurion alive at all compared to some of the other healers. It could just be the epic roots, I dunno hehe.
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Personally the primary value in elune's grace is being able to land better roots.
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On November 07 2015 01:53 SC2John wrote:
For the record, I would consider picking Assassin's Blade over Wormhole now after the nerfs ^^. xDaunt has had a lot of success with this as well.
Also, maybe I'm just not getting it, but I never have trouble with this "positioning" you guys talk about when you don't take Elune's Grace on Malfurion. In fact, I don't seem to have much trouble in keeping Malfurion alive at all compared to some of the other healers. It could just be the epic roots, I dunno hehe.
I had a game yesterday on Blackheart's Bay where I had Zeratul (rest of my team was Artanis, Rehgar, Zagara, Jaina) and faced Johanna, ETC, Illidan, Uther, and Valla. Pretty shitty matchup for me, right? Well, I switched up my build, going for a sustained damage build, taking Regen Master, Vampiric Strike, Follow Through, VP, Assassin's Blade, Stoneskin, and Nexus Blades. I figured that burst damage would do nothing for me and that I needed a more sustained presence in fights. This build did the trick. I healed myself through all sorts of bullshit and only died a couple times against what should have been a miserable composition to face. Some solid VPs worked wonders, too.
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On November 07 2015 01:53 SC2John wrote:
For the record, I would consider picking Assassin's Blade over Wormhole now after the nerfs ^^. xDaunt has had a lot of success with this as well.
Also, maybe I'm just not getting it, but I never have trouble with this "positioning" you guys talk about when you don't take Elune's Grace on Malfurion. In fact, I don't seem to have much trouble in keeping Malfurion alive at all compared to some of the other healers. It could just be the epic roots, I dunno hehe.
The priority is safety with Malf, so i stay as safe as possible. I think the positioning difficulty without elune grace is reaching good roots and regrowth in some heroes like a zeratul or Illidan. You also miss some nice moonfire opportunities but its no biggie, safety first.
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On November 06 2015 20:55 Garbels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2015 02:41 Pwere wrote:On November 05 2015 23:16 Garbels wrote:On November 05 2015 11:50 Pwere wrote:
That's the thing with the Treant. When you first use it, it doesn't look like much, but months of data show it's really good at all levels, meaning it can't be that situational. The only way anyone uses that skill is if he checks HotsLogs, tests it, and picks it in games he doesn't need Elune's Grace. But since Malf is on the weaker side, very few ppl really main him, and they usually copy competitive builds. Some comps simply don't threaten Malf, so you'd rather have the little guy, which clearly does a lot.
Lots of skills were shown to be better on HotsLogs before they became popular. Tyrande's Shadowstalk had an absurd winrate in its first week, yet it was rarely picked. But now it's picked over 80% at diamond/Master. Stitches' Bile has been 5-10% above Gouge since his rework, yet it's not flashy so people keep taking Gouge. Knight Takes Pawn was quickly dismissed when Johanna came out, yet it had the best winrate by far from day 1, but it took weeks before it got popular.
FWIW Garbels, I am Master/Rank 1, so you can assume I put a bit of thought behind my picks. Also, I must admit I spend way too long looking at HotsLogs. I have a pretty good grasp of what's significant and what isn't on that site! I realize now that my comment can be read as me thinking you are bad. But what I was commenting on was your suggestion for <3k mmr people. In my example I was not addressing you specificilly I was addressing everyone. What I wanted to say is that I think it is bad practice (for anyone who wants to play better) to pick talents or play a certain way that exploits a weakness of someone who is not as good as you are trying to become. I did misunderstand what you were saying, but I also disagree with this. I think it's fine to use talents that exploit those you play against, and to find out why they do not work at higher levels. Also, you will always have to play with lower level players, and knowing when to pull out the old pub stomper helps to carry a team. Thankfully it's much easier to know this now that you can see ranks during loading screens. But what do you actually gain from that? When I was new someone gifted me Zeratul. I started playing him with assassins blade because I saw that in a guide. When I realized what I actually want is wormhole I considered the 40 or so games with assassins blade time I could have used better even though my winrate is higher with blade than wormhole. Now of course its good to figure stuff out but I think what I needed was someone to tell me about wormhole so I can practice the 'right' way from the start. Its like playing 6 pool to masters and then realizing you can't win a straight up game. I guess it does not matter for beating players below your level but I still would rather play the spec I want and not the one that helps me win 5 minutes faster.
But what happens when the meta changes? Like when Monk came out and people wrote off Divine Palm as easy to play around didn't bother practicing how to land it?
Of if you're Arthas and all you ever do is Army because it's great and everyone picks up but then you find yourself on Mines/Tomb as the third warrior. Would be nice to bust our Sindragosa I'd say.
It's generally not wasted time learning how different talents effect your playstyle, especially something as play-changing as Elune's Grace and Wormhole.
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This part has me concerned.
+ Show Spoiler +Make MMR determined by performance in game, not just wins and losses
Do they know what they are doing?
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I'm all for the MMR change. People should be punished for playing horrifically and dying all of the time. Conversely, I shouldn't be punished when they do it.
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They talked about in-game metrics for determining mmr before (around launch iirc). And they have a lot of data to work with, and model against to see how well that translates to faster/more accurate convergence (which will be important if you're going to segment MMR by hero now too!).
I don't know, more details will be needed but I assume if they're still talking about it months later they must have something at least half-way plausible.
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It sounds like the larger issue is that either you are being matched with people with much lower MMRs in the first place(in which case punishing them or rewarding you won't help-- the matchmaking is the problem), or you are getting matched with people with similar MMRs whose strengths are different from yours. (in which case punishing them isn't really helping determine how good of players they are--- it just encourages a specific style of play)
I guess fixing matchmaking and punishing playstyles you don't like will fix the problem of you being matched with teammates you don't like, though. right? 
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I guess the 5 abathur things will become a thing lol.
OMG Chogall will be a 2 player hero lol.
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On November 07 2015 03:00 MotherFox wrote:This part has me concerned. + Show Spoiler +Make MMR determined by performance in game, not just wins and losses
Do they know what they are doing?
Uh I thought that was already the case? I'm pretty sure I've heard game MMR is based on individual performance... if not they should definitely change it or people who go afk or don't do their best are not punished and vice versa.
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On October 31 2015 04:12 Hier wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2015 03:43 MotherFox wrote:It's been announced there will be a reveal of two new maps and four new characters. Czk/Sk Heroes of the Storm said...
"We would like to take this opportunity to invite the planned live broadcast, which will be held already next weekend, and under which, hopefully, will introduce two new maps, at least four new heroes, and many other improvements that you, the players, will be surely enjoy."
source https://www.facebook.com/heroesofthestormCZ/posts/663662963775047 Incoming that girl with the orange glasses from Overwatch. She seems to be one of the representative faces of the game, so why not.
As if on queue.
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was thinking which overwatch character might actually work in Heroes, and Tracer was the first one that came to my mind. And haha 3 more Warcraft heroes who would have thought.
Chogall will be so fun though.
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Ya Tracer being in Heroes was actually spoiled yesterday or maybe two days ago? I forget, when the physical game stores started advertising the Overwatch Origins.
In anycase, so far that Reddit thread is accurate. Still very curious about all the MMR changes previewed.
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To be fair, Tracer was basically confirmed months ago. We just didn't when she'd come out. She's expected to be the 2k hero for Overwatch, as they'll likely have at least one hero per price tier.
Also, they mentioned that they were working on the mmr thing before. I guess they're taking a cue from real sports to figure out mmr of new players faster. Good move, imo. They have all the stats they want already, this shouldn't be too hard.
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Is it clear how Cho'gall works for team and playercount? Regular its 5 players with 5 heroes per team. With 2 players controlling 1 Heroe, does it become 5 vs 4 heroes oder 5 vs 6 players?
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On November 07 2015 16:56 greenelve wrote:
Is it clear how Cho'gall works for team and playercount? Regular its 5 players with 5 heroes per team. With 2 players controlling 1 Heroe, does it become 5 vs 4 heroes oder 5 vs 6 players?
He counts for two players, so if a normal team takes Cho'gall they will have 4 bodies on the field. (but still 5 heads)
In hero league you have to draft him at the exact same time as someone else. That means you can't draft him whenever you would draft a hero alone (firstpick or lastpick)
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And both players need him in case of hero league. So yeah spread the Chogall virus ! I will totally do haha.
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EPT
