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Harris1st
Germany6921 Posts
May sound weird but Malf and Azmo together is HUUUUUGE! Malf with tenacious roots at 16 and Azmo Basketball build destroyed our team big time. I guess they duo queued, cause their coordination was a step above everyone elses. Everytime someone got rooted, the Big Ball of Boom™ was incoming. In the replay i saw that they were indeed laning together from the start, stacking up | ||
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Thezzy
Netherlands2117 Posts
Oh come now, Nydus isn't *that* bad, it's just that Maw is that good. Nydus in combination with an Abathur copy can do some work against Keeps although you do rely on the enemy team not defending in time and not forcing a teamfight whilst you and Abathur are busy. The main issue with Nydus is that loading in takes too long, you can only have 4 Nydus worms active (why not more?!) and you can't plant another one whilst in a Nydus. Trying to get out of one can be a bit dodgy as well sometimes with the minimap. It also doesn't really do anything by itself other than transport Zagara. Maybe if it spawned Broodlings in smaller numbers by default it would be a useful pushing tool. Or that at level 20, allies can use it as well. | ||
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Garbels
Austria653 Posts
On November 05 2015 11:50 Pwere wrote: That's the thing with the Treant. When you first use it, it doesn't look like much, but months of data show it's really good at all levels, meaning it can't be that situational. The only way anyone uses that skill is if he checks HotsLogs, tests it, and picks it in games he doesn't need Elune's Grace. But since Malf is on the weaker side, very few ppl really main him, and they usually copy competitive builds. Some comps simply don't threaten Malf, so you'd rather have the little guy, which clearly does a lot. Lots of skills were shown to be better on HotsLogs before they became popular. Tyrande's Shadowstalk had an absurd winrate in its first week, yet it was rarely picked. But now it's picked over 80% at diamond/Master. Stitches' Bile has been 5-10% above Gouge since his rework, yet it's not flashy so people keep taking Gouge. Knight Takes Pawn was quickly dismissed when Johanna came out, yet it had the best winrate by far from day 1, but it took weeks before it got popular. FWIW Garbels, I am Master/Rank 1, so you can assume I put a bit of thought behind my picks. Also, I must admit I spend way too long looking at HotsLogs. I have a pretty good grasp of what's significant and what isn't on that site! I realize now that my comment can be read as me thinking you are bad. But what I was commenting on was your suggestion for <3k mmr people. In my example I was not addressing you specificilly I was addressing everyone. What I wanted to say is that I think it is bad practice (for anyone who wants to play better) to pick talents or play a certain way that exploits a weakness of someone who is not as good as you are trying to become. | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On November 05 2015 19:18 Harris1st wrote: Hardened Focus is my goto lvl 16 talent. only if the team is lacking severly on CC will i pick sth else... is that wrong? what do the numbers say? I'm a fan of Tenacious Roots. The longer root time (1.5 + .5 = 2.0s) just guarantees that anyone caught it in is gonna get fucked up, and the extra radius makes it more difficult to avoid during team fights. I think Hardened Focus is really good if your team is has a solid front line and you're not afraid of getting jumped on during team fights...but otherwise, it's only half a talent (less, really) since it just doesn't work when you drop below 80%. You don't want to be using heals on yourself other than Tranq, so if you're taking any damage at all, you're going to have to be wary of dropping below 80% health and becoming less effective. Whatever the case, Tenacious Roots is better imo since it's useful in all situations. Hindering Moonfire can be a fun talent to take, though it's probably subpar to Tenacious Roots (Root > slow). | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1011 Posts
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Harris1st
Germany6921 Posts
Next time I'm definitely thinking harder/ more game dependant about which lvl 16 talent i take. Specially the point where you get dived at/ focused: Rembering a game where i played uther and got pretty much ignored because of the trait and DS, so i took hardened focus at 16 and DS lvl 20 ^^ On another note: Divine Shield is the hard counter to Artanis Lazer, pretty much cancels out the full duration. very annoying when your best bet was to wipe the enemy team with the 20 upgrade | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
On November 05 2015 13:16 Hier wrote: I'm just happy there are talents that offer a legitimate choice, with benefits and drawbacks. On the other hand, did you guys know Zagara has a second ultimate ability? It turns out it isn't an urban legend. User was warned for spreading lies You mean the bugged maw that has four charges but never successfully grabs anything and doesn't clear away after you cast it? | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On November 06 2015 00:56 Harris1st wrote: On another note: Divine Shield is the hard counter to Artanis Lazer, pretty much cancels out the full duration. very annoying when your best bet was to wipe the enemy team with the 20 upgrade Yes, you need to wait out DS before you cast the laser in many circumstances. But here's the thing with Artanis -- particularly in the late game: he presents enough of a threat to the enemy team that he can create favorably uneven matchups for the rest of his team elsewhere. One of the hardest parts about playing Artanis is choosing whom to attack. In some cases, the best move is to maul the enemy frontline with your team. In others, the better move is to dive the backline and tie up 2-3 enemy heroes while your allies destroy the frontline. | ||
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Pwere
Canada1556 Posts
On November 05 2015 20:18 Leolio wrote: Heh, yeah I know that, it was just a fun coincidence. But I must admit, I only have one lvl 10 hero (Li Li), so my level 9s are those I considered I played a lot.@Larkin and Pwere: being level 9 doesn't mean anything, really. On November 05 2015 23:16 Garbels wrote: I did misunderstand what you were saying, but I also disagree with this. I think it's fine to use talents that exploit those you play against, and to find out why they do not work at higher levels. Also, you will always have to play with lower level players, and knowing when to pull out the old pub stomper helps to carry a team. Thankfully it's much easier to know this now that you can see ranks during loading screens.I realize now that my comment can be read as me thinking you are bad. But what I was commenting on was your suggestion for <3k mmr people. In my example I was not addressing you specificilly I was addressing everyone. What I wanted to say is that I think it is bad practice (for anyone who wants to play better) to pick talents or play a certain way that exploits a weakness of someone who is not as good as you are trying to become. | ||
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
On November 05 2015 14:37 Freezard wrote: I have honestly never seen anyone pick Vengeful Roots since I started playing many months ago, and I've never picked it myself. I'm going to try it next time but I really like Elune's Grace and it kinda also adds damage since it lets you use Moonfire more often. The thing is that Entangling Roots costs so much mana compared to its damage output that I rarely use it, and Moonfire is already more than enough against minions/mercs with the Moonburn talent. I'm curious how much damage the Treant does and how much HP it has compared to Stitches' Retchling from his level 13 talent. But if you're going for Vengeful Roots you might as well pick Hardened Focus at 16 for more trees. Oh hey Freezard I played with you the other day ^^ tomb of the spider queen with the Butcher who decided to go for a shit in the beginning I think... you were Azmodan, I was Tyrande? Maybe? On November 05 2015 20:18 Leolio wrote: @Larkin and Pwere: being level 9 doesn't mean anything, really. I'm level 8 with him and I try to avoid playing him at all costs as I suck with him. I mean, your discussion is very interesting and I'm not trolling. But level 9 doesn't show much expertise. It's less than 30 HL games or so, so it's not much (my profile show 16 wins and I think it's not even 16 HL wins). Again, both your arguments are great and you make me want to try him again TBH. Yeah I know, I'm just saying I have some basis for my personal opinions as he is one of my most played supports - I'm not purely theorycrafting (or theorystorming) here. I enjoy playing him and think he has a lot of utility. Just think the utility is more in the form of healing, sniping, slowing and rooting than having a weird little tree thing that whacks people. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7291 Posts
Is Uther's healing just meant to be bursty rather than enormous or am I playing dumb EDIT: Also how likely is he to get nerfed, 'cause I dont like playing melee support and I want an excuse to play Brightwing. >.> | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
As far as getting nerfed, I am unsure. If they nerf divine shield too much I don't think he'll be very viable, since the strength behind divine shield is it is the only true cleanse out there. IMO | ||
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Thezzy
Netherlands2117 Posts
More of a OMG-save-that-hero-NOW healer than a Malfurion casting Regrowth on everyone and getting 120k healing at the end of a long game. Li Li and Malfurion will generally heal more in raw numbers. Once you get Benediction at lvl 16 though, you should be getting a bit higher healing numbers since you can double heal in a fight unless you need the double stun. I play Uther strongly towards his utility and active talents, getting Protective Shield at 4, Cleanse on 7, Shrink Ray on 13 and Benediction on 16. This allows you to virtually save any one hero from a really bad spot and recently I've gotten away with some crazy saves although Divine Shield is still amazing for that as well. One thing I did notice with Uther is that he is a much less forgiving support than Malfurion or Li Li. With Uther you do have to be more mindful of who you heal first since it has such a long cooldown and heals a lot instantly. On top of that, there are few talents that directly boost his healing numbers, unlike Malfurion or Li Li. This means his healing has to be given to the right hero at the right time. If mana is getting lower I'd stop topping people off and only focus on keeping heroes alive rather than at 100%. Generally I heal squishies first unless the tank is right in the thick of it, since 50% on a squishy is a lot less than 50% on a tank. I heal myself last unless I'm actually that low and the team can survive the cooldown. His mana issues are strongest (and most painful) in the early game, when a heal for 90 mana equals to almost a fifth of your mana pool. His mana globe talent is a must at lvl 1 and once you get around level 13+ with some globes stacked you should generally have enough mana for every teamfight. I don't have any mana issues at lvl 20+. Don't be afraid to back out and hearth if mana runs very low and no immediate threat is out though. | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1011 Posts
On November 06 2015 03:22 Larkin wrote: Oh hey Freezard I played with you the other day ^^ tomb of the spider queen with the Butcher who decided to go for a shit in the beginning I think... you were Azmodan, I was Tyrande? Maybe? Yeah I see that we played together through the match history, I don't remember the game though but I've played 30 games with Azmodan the past 3 days so it's all blurry :< | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/3rm9ku/matchmaking_losing_streaks_and_elo_hell/ This kind of ties into the problems with martingale betting strategies and how humans generally erroneously think long strings of the same result are uncommon in win/loss scenarios when these streaks are actually an expected outcome. | ||
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Thezzy
Netherlands2117 Posts
I'd rather have smaller winning and losing streaks then the current system where I've had periods of losing 15+ out of 20 games in both QM and HL and then winning 15+ out of 20 games the next week. The winning streak feels nice but a long losing streak is more detrimental to gameplay than a long winning streak is beneficial to it. | ||
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MotherFox
United States1529 Posts
Maybe ladder points shouldn't swing so widely as a result of losses and that would help it, though. | ||
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
On November 06 2015 05:27 Freezard wrote: Yeah I see that we played together through the match history, I don't remember the game though but I've played 30 games with Azmodan the past 3 days so it's all blurry :< It was tomb of the spider queen, we had an Arthas and an Abathur with us, I died a couple times in the beginning due to laning against two alone  then Butcher came back and we started getting back into it. was a bit back and forth but we were clearly better, though Butcher kept going too deep to be kept alive and their Monk was getting DPs off on Kael'thas. we all died in a fight near boss and it looked like we had thrown but we ended up defending and coming back anyway. was a pretty long game, think we were level 25 by the end, but a fun one regardless ^^ | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1011 Posts
On November 06 2015 09:18 Larkin wrote: It was tomb of the spider queen, we had an Arthas and an Abathur with us, I died a couple times in the beginning due to laning against two alone then Butcher came back and we started getting back into it. was a bit back and forth but we were clearly better, though Butcher kept going too deep to be kept alive and their Monk was getting DPs off on Kael'thas. we all died in a fight near boss and it looked like we had thrown but we ended up defending and coming back anyway. was a pretty long game, think we were level 25 by the end, but a fun one regardless ^^Yeah I watched the replay and it was a nice game, was funny when Butcher said "kill one then boss" and we got recked :D He always charged in for Kaelthas too. I was a bit annoyed that I got hit by Gazlow's bombs all the time, but eventually I got max stacks and they never really had any chance late game. | ||
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Garbels
Austria653 Posts
On November 06 2015 02:41 Pwere wrote: I did misunderstand what you were saying, but I also disagree with this. I think it's fine to use talents that exploit those you play against, and to find out why they do not work at higher levels. Also, you will always have to play with lower level players, and knowing when to pull out the old pub stomper helps to carry a team. Thankfully it's much easier to know this now that you can see ranks during loading screens. But what do you actually gain from that? When I was new someone gifted me Zeratul. I started playing him with assassins blade because I saw that in a guide. When I realized what I actually want is wormhole I considered the 40 or so games with assassins blade time I could have used better even though my winrate is higher with blade than wormhole. Now of course its good to figure stuff out but I think what I needed was someone to tell me about wormhole so I can practice the 'right' way from the start. Its like playing 6 pool to masters and then realizing you can't win a straight up game. I guess it does not matter for beating players below your level but I still would rather play the spec I want and not the one that helps me win 5 minutes faster. | ||
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