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What We Learned from the MSI Masters Gaming Arena

Forum Index > Heroes of the Storm
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Xingua
Profile Joined May 2015
United States81 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-11 20:38:42
September 04 2015 08:08 GMT
#1
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<h1 style="line-height: 1.1em;">What We Learned from the MSI Masters Gaming Arena Global Finals
</br></h1><h2 style="text-align: center; margin-top: -5px;"></h2><div id="author">by Xingua </div>

<div class="text">It’s time once again for a “WWL!” This time we’re focusing on the first ever international tournament for Heroes of the Storm: MSI’s Masters Gaming Arena! Teams from North America, Europe and Asia were pitted against each other for a prize pool of $50,000, with first place taking $30,000.

We last covered the North American August Open in our last WWL, so I won’t talk too much about the similar strategies we saw from the three American teams since it was only a week prior to this tournament. This was our first opportunity to see how each region’s unique Meta fared against the others, and it did not disappoint. A lot of buzz had been building about EU vs NA but, as it turned out, Korea didn’t get that message. MVP Black swept through the tournament only losing one game to Team Liquid.

For the EU vs NA debate, NA can point to Cloud9 (the second best NA team) looking dominant against Team Liquid (the best EU team). But it’s not all bad for the EU, as TeamLiquid was the only team to take a game off of MVP Black, who then made Tempo Storm look bad in the Grand Finals.

As with the August Open, the stats used in this article were compiled by Dthehunter and can be found here.

The tournament was broadcast on MSI Gaming's Twitch channel. Unfortunately the first day had a lot of streaming issues, so you'll have to scan through past broadcasts. Luckily, you can watch the full VOD of the second day of the tournament right here.

There weren’t as many games in this tournament due to it being single elimination, so this article will be a bit shorter than the last few. If I’ve missed anything, feel free to post about it below to help us all out. Now let’s take a look at some of the interesting strategy and drafting we saw over the weekend:

<h2>The 100% Involved</h2>
As always, we start with the heroes that were either picked or banned in every single game, as that tends to indicate who is at the top of the Meta. During the August Open, Zeratul and Kael’thas were involved in 100% of the drafts, while former top picks Zagara and Nazeebo fell out of favor. Nazeebo, Zagara (100% involved in the August Open) and Jaina (100% involved in the July Open) are still excellent damage dealers, but due to team compositions they just weren’t getting used as often. Instead we saw Uther, Johanna, and Leoric getting 100% pick/ban rates, most likely due to other regions’ comp preferences. Both EU and Asia prefer double Warrior compositions, and Leoric and Johanna (as mentioned in the WWL August Open) are the top 2 in that regard. MVP Black especially favored Leoric, even getting teams to ban him out because of how deadly he was in their hands. Johanna, meanwhile, seems to be taking a slight step back as Leoric often eats her alive. As far as Uther goes…

<h2>Press Pause</h2>
One of the recurring points of the casters during the tournament were just how strong Uther’s Divine Shield and Zeratul’s Void Prison were at letting teams control team fights. Void Prison is great at setting up team fights, or isolating players in order to focus fire on another. If the enemy catches you out of position, you can use it to get out of the area before you lose the fight. If you engage in a team fight, both Heroics allow you a pause button that can give your healer a chance to catch up or your DPS cooldowns to reset. Teams with Uther and Zeratul together were 4-0 in the tournament. In fact, MVP Black’s one loss was against this comp when Team Liquid rolled it out on Dragon Shire.

Divine Shield is further bolstered by the recent nerf to Cleanse, as it is now the only way to counteract a stun train when your teammate dives too far or is jumped on by your enemy. Overall it seems like Uther has clearly taken the spot of number one Support internationally now. As for other Supports…

<h2>Kharazim Is Not the Support We Are Looking For</h2>
In his first tournament foray, Kharazim was extremely underwhelming going 0-3, and always being picked as a solo Support. Tempo Storm’s Dreadnaught has publically said he thinks the monk healer has a high ceiling, but it has yet to be demonstrated. MVP Black especially showed how professional micro makes Divine Palm almost useless as they just stopped all damage whenever they saw it. At this point I think teams need to come up with new ways to use Kharazim, as he does still have a benefit as a melee healer, just not the lone healer on a team. Unfortunately to run him with a second healer doesn’t seem viable because of his relatively low damage, and the plethora of better heroes to choose from. Why take Kharazim when you could have a Tyrande who brings a stun and vulnerability debuff, plus great map vision? The only teams to play Kharazim were Tempo Storm and Team Liquid, considered the top two teams in the world prior to this tournament, and neither was able to make headway with him. I guess we will need to look on to the Medic instead.

<h2>Forget Triple Specialist, Try Triple Warrior!</h2>
In their final game against Team Liquid, MVP Black brought out a triple Warrior composition, adding one more tank to their usual strategy. They used Valla as their sole Assassin, combined with Uther as the Support, and then Leoric, Anub’arak, and ETC to win the match and head to the Grand Finals. The Korean team was able to completely dominate the map and objectives on Cursed Hollow, roaming and bullying their way through the more traditional line-up of Team Liquid (Tyrael, Malfurion, Nazeebo, Zeratul, and Kael’thas). The triple tanks managed to keep their lone damage dealer alive while putting out enough damage of their own to win long team fights. I wouldn’t recommend trying this strategy very often, as I think these players could make almost any comp work, but it is worth noting that even though Kael, Zeratul and Nazeebo are top damage dealers, they can be beaten by a coordinated group with much less damage.

Excluding the triple Warrior comp in one game, MVP Black really put on a clinic for how and why to run double Warrior, a style that North America has flirted with but hasn’t bought into fully since the early Beta. Most NA drafts focus on locking down the top damage dealers first and then grabbing an appropriate tank when you can later on, but in Korea they often use first picks and bans on top Warriors like Leoric and Johanna. Leoric looked especially deadly throughout the tournament and MVP showed the power of March of the Black King, compared to North America’s recent preference for Entomb. In the Grand Finals against Tempo Storm, MVP’s player Sign swung a team fight single-handedly by Marching through his enemies, grabbing three quick kills.

The two primary reasons MVP Black was able to dominate so thoroughly with double Warrior compositions were their insanely high micro and their patience in setting up ganks. Throughout the tournament the Koreans demonstrated how insanely coordinated they were by body-blocking enemies out of position to secure kills and knowing exactly when to pop stuns or snares. These skills paid even more dividends when they would leave Warriors waiting in bushes or around corners for opponents to take one step too far, and then jump on them with the rest of the team following through on the kill. While I think double Warrior definitely had a good tournament, I don’t know how many other teams can replicate the extremely skilled control that MVP Black, so despite their dominant showing, it still might not catch on in the West.

<h2>An Interesting Try</h2>
Team Liquid continues to be the most successful and innovative team in the world when it comes to their hero pool and drafts. They ran an interesting composition on Sky Temple against MVP Black when they took a heavy dive composition with Illidan, Abathur, and Kharazim, and they supplemented them with Johanna and The Lost Vikings. The intention was to have a team strong enough to smash into MVP’s team, and possibly allow The Lost Vikings and Abathur to soak lanes while they fought over temples. Unfortunately, the comp didn’t work as Team Liquid actually never gained the experience advantage you would expect in an Abathur/The Lost Vikings game, and while their dive potential was strong, the pause button of Divine Shield and Void Prison (see above) was able to put fights on hold and delay the Ultimate Evolutions and Viking Long Boats from being used until it was too late.

<h2>Stray Observations:</h2>
  • Sylvanas was banned from this tournament due to a bug with her Wailing Arrow cooldown. I think this did affect the drafts because she’s picked frequently in North America, and her AOE silence is always useful. I don’t think she would have made the difference for any losing teams, but it’s always sad to not get a full picture of what teams want to do. The bug has now been fixed.

  • We saw a bit of the Support ban draft Meta sneak back in during the Grand Finals between Tempo Storm and MVP Black, but I think this was just how that draft was developing and may have played into MVP’s hands. The game ended up with Kharazim vs Brightwing, and as they did all tournament, MVP showed amazing technique, using the faerie dragon to zip in and out of fights with Leoric’s Wrath Walk, and taking the Unstable Anomaly talent for a bit more damage. Kharazim, even in the hands of one of North Americas top Support players Dreadnaught, felt underpowered in the game and MVP regularly stopped damage on his Divine Palm target thus rendering it useless.

  • Unfortunately the top Heroes team from China, eStar, wasn’t able to compete because they couldn’t get into the US due to visa issues. They were a dark horse contender and may have disrupted Tempo Storm or Cloud9 going as far as they did. This also denied us a few more matches of analysis as Cloud9 got a bye in the first round.

  • Sgt Hammer made a few appearances with Team Liquid (1-2 with her) and seems to be hover-sieging her way slowly back into the Meta. Oddly enough, it seems like the prefered talent at 16 is now Stoneskin because of the changes to how easily she can siege up.

  • Cloud9 ran an aggressive double melee Assassin team against Team Liquid in the Third Place Game, and made it look pretty dangerous. It did feature Zeratul and Uther though, so maybe that’s just them carrying the Illidan, but they made Team Liquid look bad. It may have also been the unusual no Assassin, Abathur and Sgt Hammer comp TL was using.

  • This really can’t be said enough, but MVP Black looked so polished in almost every game. I thought Tempo Storm’s rotations were clean, but the Koreans were on a whole other level and made the top American team look completely out of sorts. I can’t wait to see how Tempo Storm adjusts, as their hero pool seemed to be lacking something against the Koreans. MVP Black definitely did their homework and seemed to outdraft them every game too.

  • Unfortunately the stream on the first day of the tournament was constantly breaking, so the Past Broadcasts on MSI’s Twitch channel are broken down into nine minute chunks. If you’re looking for specific matches, you can browse through those, but a lot of the action was cut out during the outages. The second day went off without a hitch though.

  • Congratulations to the winner of our MSI MGA bracket tournament, DelHospital! The winning bracket earned a MSI Z97 Gaming PC, and 12 other runners-up received prizes as well. I lost. Stay tuned for future TeamLiquid.net bracket contests, as we are likely to do one for BlizzCon.

  • As always, make sure to check out Dthehunter on twitter @Dthehunter2510 for more statistics on these tournaments. He does this all on his own just to give us something to talk about. If you organize a tournament, he would love it if you could make the replays available, as it makes his job a lot easier and allows him to track more neat stuff (like builds).

  • Let me know if I missed anything from the MGA down in the comments below, or follow and tweet me @Xingua. And don’t forget my esteemed editor @Vaalia_, who edits like an angry wombat (in a good way).

</div>

<div class="snippetwrap"></div><div id="footer">Writer: Xingua
Graphics & Format: shiroiusagi, Vaalia
Art Credit: Blizzard
Editor(s): Vaalia</div></div>
@Xingua on Twitter // XinguaTCN on Twitch
KobraKay
Profile Joined March 2010
Portugal4230 Posts
September 04 2015 08:24 GMT
#2
Thanks for this analysis.

I completely missed the games have to check out the VODs next week when Im on vacation :D

One thing to notice is that the number of games was quite small and with such a small sample I think it might be too soon to say the monk is UP.

The results are a surprise for me as I'm so used to EU games where TL dominates

The top picks by role seem in line with what we usually see on EU games so no big surprise there I think. Somewhat different yes is the fact that damage dealers are not being first pick but the top tanks are getting the prime time.
CJ Fighting! (--.--)
EvilsPresley
Profile Joined December 2014
France132 Posts
September 04 2015 10:23 GMT
#3
Great article!
Just a note: I think the total prize pool mentioned at start was 50K, not 75K.
Rogue | Maru
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
September 04 2015 10:45 GMT
#4
Well the monks "heal" ult needs enemy interaction. Which in general will work perfectly fine on low level, but at some point it flips and people will not let it go off anymore and it will just be a bad fake Divine Shield.
That is taking delay into consideration, in an offline environment someone could get good enough to throw it down on the final blow. Warcraft 3 is a great example for those things. Maybe they really should bring that back, when offline and online looks so different there is much more enjoyment for viewers. Well and its way harder for the players.

So I can only imagine a Divine Palm into a Divine shield really. Which basically means, get low -> get ignored -> get shielded. Meanwhile all the healing can bringt that person back to full.

So take your rightful spot besides Tyrande and Tassadar Monk. Cause Brightwing atleast won a game that tournament.
ACrow
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6583 Posts
September 04 2015 11:06 GMT
#5
These articles are great, please keep them coming! Good job!
Get off my lawn, young punks
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
September 04 2015 12:05 GMT
#6
"Team Liquid continues to be the most successful and innovative team in the world when it comes to their hero pool and drafts". Most succesful is a bold statement considering how hard they got dominated and their drafts seem to be the weak point, they play wonky compositions a lot and got punished hard for it this tournament getting absolutely trashed by c9 for example, the games weren't even close.

Drafting is TL's weak point I think but they rarely get challenged in europe and not really punished for it. Their wonky TLV + abathur plays and stuff like that are a sign of weakness imo.
klipik12
Profile Joined March 2012
United States241 Posts
September 04 2015 14:14 GMT
#7
On September 04 2015 21:05 Markwerf wrote:
"Team Liquid continues to be the most successful and innovative team in the world when it comes to their hero pool and drafts". Most succesful is a bold statement considering how hard they got dominated and their drafts seem to be the weak point, they play wonky compositions a lot and got punished hard for it this tournament getting absolutely trashed by c9 for example, the games weren't even close.

Drafting is TL's weak point I think but they rarely get challenged in europe and not really punished for it. Their wonky TLV + abathur plays and stuff like that are a sign of weakness imo.


Since when is experimentation a sign of weakness? I think it's a sign of being so on top of their region they are used to being able to try new things and not getting punished for it.
<(^_^)> || Axiom - CoL - mYi - Prime - ROOT - EG - Acer || WCS Teamleague pls ;-;
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
September 04 2015 14:32 GMT
#8
On September 04 2015 23:14 klipik12 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2015 21:05 Markwerf wrote:
"Team Liquid continues to be the most successful and innovative team in the world when it comes to their hero pool and drafts". Most succesful is a bold statement considering how hard they got dominated and their drafts seem to be the weak point, they play wonky compositions a lot and got punished hard for it this tournament getting absolutely trashed by c9 for example, the games weren't even close.

Drafting is TL's weak point I think but they rarely get challenged in europe and not really punished for it. Their wonky TLV + abathur plays and stuff like that are a sign of weakness imo.


Since when is experimentation a sign of weakness? I think it's a sign of being so on top of their region they are used to being able to try new things and not getting punished for it.


Hard to call it experimentation if they also do this sort of drafting in an important tournament like this. They think TLV and lots of styles they do are simply good, of course we can't objectively assess if they are right in this but I can't help but feel their drafting is terrible but they only got faced with the results of that in a tournament like this.
Dthehunter
Profile Joined August 2013
Belgium42 Posts
September 04 2015 14:52 GMT
#9
Nice post! thanks for the mini shoutout <3
www.twitter.com/Dthehunter2510
gildoania
Profile Joined September 2015
2 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-04 17:34:25
September 04 2015 17:33 GMT
#10
"Team Liquid continues to be the most successful and innovative team in the world when it comes to their hero pool and drafts."

Illidan, Zeratul, or Bust? How is that innovative?
r_gg
Profile Joined August 2015
141 Posts
September 04 2015 17:37 GMT
#11
On September 05 2015 02:33 gildoania wrote:
"Team Liquid continues to be the most successful and innovative team in the world when it comes to their hero pool and drafts."

Illidan, Zeratul, or Bust? How is that innovative?


Seems like they are giving credits to TL just because they are the only team to use TLV, ignoring MVP's use of Raynor, BW, or ETC. Apparently Hammer is a surprise, even though she has been a regular occurrence in KR/CN since this patch and MVP actually showed them using Hammer in IEM even during last patch.
Writer
gildoania
Profile Joined September 2015
2 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-04 18:04:52
September 04 2015 17:51 GMT
#12
On September 05 2015 02:37 r_gg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 05 2015 02:33 gildoania wrote:
"Team Liquid continues to be the most successful and innovative team in the world when it comes to their hero pool and drafts."

Illidan, Zeratul, or Bust? How is that innovative?


Seems like they are giving credits to TL just because they are the only team to use TLV, ignoring MVP's use of Raynor, BW, or ETC. Apparently Hammer is a surprise, even though she has been a regular occurrence in KR/CN since this patch and MVP actually showed them using Hammer in IEM even during last patch.


I'm reminded of a certain chain analogy, but if Team Liquid can be seriously crippled in HALF their competitive games(other team has ban / first pick). that is anything but a team that has a successful and innovative draft. on top of that it also forces team liquid out of other contested picks.
Topin
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Peru10053 Posts
September 04 2015 17:53 GMT
#13
nice read!
i would define my style between a mix of ByuN, Maru and MKP
Wuster
Profile Joined May 2011
1974 Posts
September 04 2015 18:52 GMT
#14
On September 04 2015 19:45 FeyFey wrote:
Well the monks "heal" ult needs enemy interaction. Which in general will work perfectly fine on low level, but at some point it flips and people will not let it go off anymore and it will just be a bad fake Divine Shield.
That is taking delay into consideration, in an offline environment someone could get good enough to throw it down on the final blow. Warcraft 3 is a great example for those things. Maybe they really should bring that back, when offline and online looks so different there is much more enjoyment for viewers. Well and its way harder for the players.

So I can only imagine a Divine Palm into a Divine shield really. Which basically means, get low -> get ignored -> get shielded. Meanwhile all the healing can bringt that person back to full.

So take your rightful spot besides Tyrande and Tassadar Monk. Cause Brightwing atleast won a game that tournament.


I was thinking about Divine Palm and it does turn out to be very similar to Divine Shield. Both are 3 second durations, Palm doesn't protect you from snares or CC or being chipped down, but Palm does heal if the other team messes up. And as you said it might be possible to time Palm closer to last hits going forward, although with how big some burst moves are that seems tricky. I'm surprised how little AoE there is though, that should make Divine Palm harder to play around, so maybe it's more about comps.

I think Monk can solo-support a sturdier line-up though. He'll have trouble keeping Butcher / Illidan up if they get focused (Uther still has burst options outside his ult after all). But with double warrior or even triple warrior why wouldn't he work? I dunno, I like playing him so I hope he finds a place.
Xingua
Profile Joined May 2015
United States81 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-04 19:19:22
September 04 2015 19:19 GMT
#15
Re: TeamLiquid being innovative.

People have pointed out that they weren't necessarily innovative, as MVP used odd heroes too and Team Liquid ended up losing a lot of games where they chose the unusual heroes. I think that's fair and I'd actually adjust my wording to say that TL has the most unique hero pool of most of the top teams. True that's mostly due to Lost Vikings, but the Hammer + Abathur comp was also weird. Maybe they are just bad at drafting but make silly comps work? It didn't work well against C9 or MVP.

In terms of MVP Black, I think they aren't necessarily winning through innovation as much as they are winning by being better players than almost everybody else. I think you could have swapped heroes in their games and they probably still would have won the game. They are the odds on favorite to win BlizzCon at this point.
@Xingua on Twitter // XinguaTCN on Twitch
Wuster
Profile Joined May 2011
1974 Posts
September 04 2015 20:10 GMT
#16
How much do you think of it has to do with meta differences? For a long time we thought Korea was behind NA / EU, but now MVP Black has taken two international tournaments now and I heard that they said the burst meta favored by the West is just outdated (it's like we've come full circle back to double warrior + 1 1/2 supports from closed Beta lol).

I've also heard other people claiming MVP Black isn't the best Korean team even, at least not undisputed top. Not sure if that's just people putting down EU / NA or being hipster about their favorite Korean team though.
Xingua
Profile Joined May 2015
United States81 Posts
September 04 2015 20:40 GMT
#17
Meta difference between region is definitely a factor, but you can't ignore the micro skills of MVP or the rotational ability of Tempo Storm. Cheap answer: it's both skill and hero selection.

I think skill probably wins out though, because from what I hear, MVP practices like crazy, and they could probably master any comp and be amazing at it. Double warrior just seems to best take advantage of people at that skill level, because the reduced damage is made up for by individual player skills.
@Xingua on Twitter // XinguaTCN on Twitch
Rikstah
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia126 Posts
September 15 2015 06:26 GMT
#18
Have to agree with Xingua here, skills was the main decider.

Where the meta came into play is where I believe MVP black seriously studied Tempo Storm and their compositions, whereas Tempo Storm did not respect the asian meta enough to do so, hence getting out drafted each match.
Thors before Whores man
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