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On November 11 2013 22:50 lepape wrote:
I can't believe people are complaining this game is too casual. Like most people here, I've been playing DotA for what, at least 10 years now, and with a minimum of objectivity, DotA has some design flaws that go from ''terrible'' to ''abysmal''.
If there's anything this genre needs, it's a more casual approach to it, and less ''20 minutes of babysitting a carry that ends up being terrible with a support hero on which you will barely get any item'', or ''fighting on who buys the wards and the chicken'', or even ''the game is already over but let's all waste another 15 minutes until we can all leave''. And I can't imagine how confusing the item system must be for a new player. In many ways, this is pretty much one of the most hardcore games out there.
We ignore or accept all those terrible gameplay aspects in DotA simply because we got used to it, and because the good overcomes the bad, the heroes are so much fun. But come on, after 10 years, we should expect more from games we put countless of hours into.
Also, every hero having a ''good skin'' and an ''evil skin'', depending on which team you're on, that's just amazing.
When i hear people talk about dota i sometime wonder if we play the same game... I almost never "babysit" my carry for more than 10 min. I would either be in a 2v2 or 3v3 lane, trying to zone out the other and to kill them, or if it's against a solo offlaner i would try to kill him, rotate to mid etc. The early game is by far my favorite part of the game when i play a support hero, this is the time where supports shine. People still talk about dota as if the metagame was still all about 4 protect 1.
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United States7481 Posts
On November 12 2013 03:37 RagequitBM wrote:
Pretty cool that they used Diablo 2 appearance for Diablo and Tyrael. I think they looked way better there. Now I just wish they used Death Knight Arthas rather than Lich King. Still, looks like a really fun game.
I'm sure there will be a DK Arthas skin - they already have LK and Paladin Arthas in.
On November 12 2013 03:43 hansonslee wrote:
If people are wondering about how carries can "farm", Kerrigan can gather shield when attacking an opponent, Sonia can attack to gain "rage" points, which can be used for her abilities, and Valla can increase her attack and movement speed when attacking. I just hope Blizzard incorporates that "build-up" mechanic for most of these assassins to make them more like carries!
A lot of these are pretty short duration. I didn't play Kerrigan or Sonya, but Valla's attack speed buff only lasts for 10-15 seconds (didn't pull out a stop watch). I think it's mostly something to make their damage stand out in sustained battles.
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I really think we are looking at the the wrong way - this is not going to be played in the same way as DOTA or League, so using the same preconceptions on how the game will go is wrong.
For example I think the laning phase will be gone. As you are no longer getting any bonus from last hitting, there is little reason to stay in lane, what I speculate will happen is that people will jungle/hover around the lanes, targeting neutrals or ganking in order to secure bonus XP, and then they'll return to lane once the enemy has pushed, so as to push it back.
The carry/support role as we know it from DotA will be removed as well I suspect. Exactly how it'd be replaced I do not know, but I think it'd be in a burst/sustain/control trinity form. Difference from DOTA being that the people providing sustain/control can contribute significantly to burst as well, seeing how everyone is on the same level.
And people WILL find ways to differentiate good players from bad - if you can do it in poker, you can do it in anything. it just won't be in the same way we do for other games of the same genre.
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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
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Only thing that makes me kinda sad is that they will probably bring in heroes from the metzen era of lore.
Random gids that appeared only in novels, characters that got introduced in WoW and the like.
I have no idea how often I have seen Uther in the spotlight for example, and it feels forced. What about Medivh, Lothar or personalities from diablo 2. At least there are rumors Fenix will be in the game.
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On November 12 2013 12:01 Mataza wrote:
Only thing that makes me kinda sad is that they will probably bring in heroes from the metzen era of lore.
Random gids that appeared only in novels, characters that got introduced in WoW and the like.
I have no idea how often I have seen Uther in the spotlight for example, and it feels forced. What about Medivh, Lothar or personalities from diablo 2. At least there are rumors Fenix will be in the game.
Metzen kind of made Warcraft as a universe, anyone from the franchise will be from "His era." Lothar is a strong possibility for the future since he's the Alliance focus in the movie, so they'll probably do some cross promotion with him.
Also, Uther first showed up in WC2.
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I know when Uther first showed up, my point is that it feels forced how often he is shoved in our faces. For characters like Arthas or Kerrigan it feels appropriate to to brought up often.
In WC2 and WC3 Uther was just one of many characters. And those other characters don't appear nearly as often.
It's clear that someone at Blizzard really loves to bring out Uther.
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On November 12 2013 12:20 Mataza wrote:
I know when Uther first showed up, my point is that it feels forced how often he is shoved in our faces. For characters like Arthas or Kerrigan it feels appropriate to to brought up often.
In WC2 and WC3 Uther was just one of many characters. And those other characters don't appear nearly as often.
It's clear that someone at Blizzard really loves to bring out Uther.
I assume it's because there's a real dearth of paladin characters and more people are gonna know Uther than, say, Liadrin or Dezco or even Turalyon. That might change after WoD brings Yrel and Maraad to the forefront, but for the time being Uther is still the face of Warcraft paladins.
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On November 12 2013 12:24 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 12:20 Mataza wrote:
I know when Uther first showed up, my point is that it feels forced how often he is shoved in our faces. For characters like Arthas or Kerrigan it feels appropriate to to brought up often.
In WC2 and WC3 Uther was just one of many characters. And those other characters don't appear nearly as often.
It's clear that someone at Blizzard really loves to bring out Uther. I assume it's because there's a real dearth of paladin characters and more people are gonna know Uther than, say, Liadrin or Dezco or even Turalyon. That might change after WoD brings Yrel and Maraad to the forefront, but for the time being Uther is still the face of Warcraft paladins.
Tirion Fordring?
Not that I mind Uther, but there are only 2 or 3 famous lore characters for any given class (mages and warriors being the obvious exceptions... I guess shamans as well).
Name one priest other than Tyrande. Name one warlock other than Gul'dan, a druid other than Malfurion (Staghelm the gimp doesn't count) or a rogue other than Garona.
Sure, they exist, and if you think a bit you can come up with 1 or 2 more for each, but it's hardly surprising that there aren't that many famous paladins.
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Watching the videos of the matches they played I got an impression that 90% of time you run around with your whole team and do the objectives. I dont like that aspect so much. In LoL and Dota I mostly enjoy the first half of the game when you are alone or with one more teammate pushing your lane, trying to gang. Late game, when you are all bunched up engaging the enemy feels like a cluster**** to me and Im not really fond of that.
Maybe in this game they make those battles more fun I hope.
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On November 12 2013 20:39 NukeD wrote:
Watching the videos of the matches they played I got an impression that 90% of time you run around with your whole team and do the objectives. I dont like that aspect so much. In LoL and Dota I mostly enjoy the first half of the game when you are alone or with one more teammate pushing your lane, trying to gang. Late game, when you are all bunched up engaging the enemy feels like a cluster**** to me and Im not really fond of that.
Maybe in this game they make those battles more fun I hope.
I don't know, I don't really *love* laning very much. It can be very frustrating to "win lane lose game", which is one major reason I took a break from LoL.
Running around as a team, teamfighting, and completing objectives is WAY more fun than PvE'ing in lane against minions.
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On November 12 2013 23:06 Crownlol wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 20:39 NukeD wrote:
Watching the videos of the matches they played I got an impression that 90% of time you run around with your whole team and do the objectives. I dont like that aspect so much. In LoL and Dota I mostly enjoy the first half of the game when you are alone or with one more teammate pushing your lane, trying to gang. Late game, when you are all bunched up engaging the enemy feels like a cluster**** to me and Im not really fond of that.
Maybe in this game they make those battles more fun I hope. I don't know, I don't really *love* laning very much. It can be very frustrating to "win lane lose game", which is one major reason I took a break from LoL. Running around as a team, teamfighting, and completing objectives is WAY more fun than PvE'ing in lane against minions.
To be fair, winning your lane is usually more about removing your opponent from it than who clicks on creeps better.
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On November 12 2013 23:16 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 23:06 Crownlol wrote:On November 12 2013 20:39 NukeD wrote:
Watching the videos of the matches they played I got an impression that 90% of time you run around with your whole team and do the objectives. I dont like that aspect so much. In LoL and Dota I mostly enjoy the first half of the game when you are alone or with one more teammate pushing your lane, trying to gang. Late game, when you are all bunched up engaging the enemy feels like a cluster**** to me and Im not really fond of that.
Maybe in this game they make those battles more fun I hope. I don't know, I don't really *love* laning very much. It can be very frustrating to "win lane lose game", which is one major reason I took a break from LoL. Running around as a team, teamfighting, and completing objectives is WAY more fun than PvE'ing in lane against minions. To be fair, winning your lane is usually more about removing your opponent from it than who clicks on creeps better.
Yeah people keep repeating that laning it's PvEing vs minion... it's not you have a lane opponent and that's what makes it interesting! Clearing jungle/map objective camps though like heroes seems to be revolving around is actually PvE most of the time though...
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On November 12 2013 23:06 Crownlol wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 20:39 NukeD wrote:
Watching the videos of the matches they played I got an impression that 90% of time you run around with your whole team and do the objectives. I dont like that aspect so much. In LoL and Dota I mostly enjoy the first half of the game when you are alone or with one more teammate pushing your lane, trying to gang. Late game, when you are all bunched up engaging the enemy feels like a cluster**** to me and Im not really fond of that.
Maybe in this game they make those battles more fun I hope. I don't know, I don't really *love* laning very much. It can be very frustrating to "win lane lose game", which is one major reason I took a break from LoL. Running around as a team, teamfighting, and completing objectives is WAY more fun than PvE'ing in lane against minions.
The thing you seem to miss is that most laning is 1v1 or 2v2 with jungler or roam interaction for temporary numbers advantadge. Teamfighting is by definition reliant on your team. If the game has a significant laning phase you can still feel good about that even if your team is a bunch of trolls or are playing like retards (a significant risk in any teamgame, hell sometimes I'm the guy who plays like a retard). You might have lost the game terribly but you can say stuff like "at least I totally owned that XY 1v1" and still feel pumped after the game (on the flipside that same thing often leads to flamewars, "I owned top so hard but you fed mid even harder etc. etc.").
As it looks this game will be all about teamwork and coordination. The part of LoL and Dota that pisses me off often is exactly that part when I try to find a quick game solo, simply because it usually doesn't exist (or is restricted to a very basic level).
It looks like a fun game for 5v5 with friends or other arranged groups, but the SoloQ aspect looks like a complete nightmare to me. Maybe I'm just too jaded and the entire community will rock and 5 random guys will mesh into a team immediately, but somehow I just can't see that happening.
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This looks like a graphed up funmap to me… And not one thats actually fun in the long haul.
Objective based gameplay is a neat idea, but i fear it forces the game too much towards these objectives instead of the real goal to kill the enemy base/ancient/stronghold (whatever they call it here).
I somehow get a Dawn of War 2 „extreme version“ (no armies at all) vibe from it.
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On November 13 2013 22:55 Velr wrote:
This looks like a graphed up funmap to me… And not one thats actually fun in the long haul.
Objective based gameplay is a neat idea, but i fear it forces the game too much towards these objectives instead of the real goal to kill the enemy base/ancient/stronghold (whatever they call it here).
I somehow get a Dawn of War 2 „extreme version“ (no armies at all) vibe from it.
I think that's the point. Get the reward, and the reward makes it easier to strike the enemy.
My question is how often will there be team fights trying to get these objectives? And what's the benefit of not getting the objectives to doing so. I guess we'll have to wait until beta to play around with it.
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On November 09 2013 19:27 JustPassingBy wrote:
Stiches should've been the butcher, imo and Valla should've been either Natalya or Danetta
During the Deep Dive panel on Saturday before the live matches at Blizzcon, they showed a bunch of champions and some of their skins in alphabetical order. The butcher was on that list, then later on you saw stitches with like 5 skins or so. So they are both in the game, at least from what they showed, but of course that could change.
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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
On November 13 2013 23:38 Bentatoe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2013 19:27 JustPassingBy wrote:
Stiches should've been the butcher, imo and Valla should've been either Natalya or Danetta During the Deep Dive panel on Saturday before the live matches at Blizzcon, they showed a bunch of champions and some of their skins in alphabetical order. The butcher was on that list, then later on you saw stitches with like 5 skins or so. So they are both in the game, at least from what they showed, but of course that could change.
http://www.gameskinny.com/zytoh/heroes-of-the-storm-hero-and-skin-list-that-we-know-so-far
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Do the heroes from D3 (Sonya, Valla, etc) have anything to do with the lore of D3??
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Looking forward to this game
looks very cool
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EPT
