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On March 15 2014 04:44 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 04:38 hariooo wrote:On March 15 2014 04:24 Kipsate wrote:
If you are good enough at league that you need every champion then you have already played it enough to the point where you have the runes most likely. That is if you want to play competively, and im not talking about solo q silver 1.
Your paper might be sharper or your rock (marginally) heavier. You still need to use them correctly. Every time I get interested in playing LoL again I remember I have to play another few hundred games just to have proper rune pages before I farm IP again to get the champs that are interesting. Then I give up and boot up DOTA. actually you can play right now without doing any of those things and be evenly matched
Oh? What do you mean?
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On March 15 2014 04:48 hariooo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 04:44 ComaDose wrote:On March 15 2014 04:38 hariooo wrote:On March 15 2014 04:24 Kipsate wrote:
If you are good enough at league that you need every champion then you have already played it enough to the point where you have the runes most likely. That is if you want to play competively, and im not talking about solo q silver 1.
Your paper might be sharper or your rock (marginally) heavier. You still need to use them correctly. Every time I get interested in playing LoL again I remember I have to play another few hundred games just to have proper rune pages before I farm IP again to get the champs that are interesting. Then I give up and boot up DOTA. actually you can play right now without doing any of those things and be evenly matched Oh? What do you mean?
he's lying and wrong.
Locking important content behind a wall is P2W, you either pay in time or you pay out of pocket. But you're goddamn paying.
And its VERY important to have access to every hero in a MOBA/ARTS ect
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Its not as important in LoL because the game is designed to have jack of all trades, in Dota it would be a huge pay 2 win because the heroes are too big in variety/diversity and have assymetric scaling beyond anything in LoL. A lot of Champions in LoL fulfill the same roll(within their category) and can do it capeable enough while having relative symmetric scaling so that the influence of having a better champion is very little, it is there but its not as big as some people make it out to be and is only a factor at the competitive level.
I am not a huge fan of LoL's business model(actually it is the reason I don't play it casually, because I fucking can't stand grinding to get all the different champs) but the pay2win is being vastly overestimated.
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well i wasn't lying or wrong. everything i said was true and accurate.
but i should have read that specifically you wanted to play a specific character which would require you to play some games to be able to unlock him.
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On March 15 2014 04:53 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 04:48 hariooo wrote:On March 15 2014 04:44 ComaDose wrote:On March 15 2014 04:38 hariooo wrote:On March 15 2014 04:24 Kipsate wrote:
If you are good enough at league that you need every champion then you have already played it enough to the point where you have the runes most likely. That is if you want to play competively, and im not talking about solo q silver 1.
Your paper might be sharper or your rock (marginally) heavier. You still need to use them correctly. Every time I get interested in playing LoL again I remember I have to play another few hundred games just to have proper rune pages before I farm IP again to get the champs that are interesting. Then I give up and boot up DOTA. actually you can play right now without doing any of those things and be evenly matched Oh? What do you mean? he's lying and wrong. Locking important content behind a wall is P2W, you either pay in time or you pay out of pocket. But you're goddamn paying. And its VERY important to have access to every hero in a MOBA/ARTS ect
It doesn't matter in league. The match ups are not that severe and there are only a few that come to mind that are really bad. It's a lot like a fighting game, where player skill over rides the minor imbalances of a specific match up.
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On March 15 2014 05:33 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 04:53 Shaella wrote:On March 15 2014 04:48 hariooo wrote:On March 15 2014 04:44 ComaDose wrote:On March 15 2014 04:38 hariooo wrote:On March 15 2014 04:24 Kipsate wrote:
If you are good enough at league that you need every champion then you have already played it enough to the point where you have the runes most likely. That is if you want to play competively, and im not talking about solo q silver 1.
Your paper might be sharper or your rock (marginally) heavier. You still need to use them correctly. Every time I get interested in playing LoL again I remember I have to play another few hundred games just to have proper rune pages before I farm IP again to get the champs that are interesting. Then I give up and boot up DOTA. actually you can play right now without doing any of those things and be evenly matched Oh? What do you mean? he's lying and wrong. Locking important content behind a wall is P2W, you either pay in time or you pay out of pocket. But you're goddamn paying. And its VERY important to have access to every hero in a MOBA/ARTS ect It doesn't matter in league. The match ups are not that severe and there are only a few that come to mind that are really bad. It's a lot like a fighting game, where player skill over rides the minor imbalances of a specific match up.
Oh my imagine hiding vanilla SF4 Sagat behind a 1000win/$20 wall.
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On March 15 2014 05:42 hariooo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 05:33 Plansix wrote:On March 15 2014 04:53 Shaella wrote:On March 15 2014 04:48 hariooo wrote:On March 15 2014 04:44 ComaDose wrote:On March 15 2014 04:38 hariooo wrote:On March 15 2014 04:24 Kipsate wrote:
If you are good enough at league that you need every champion then you have already played it enough to the point where you have the runes most likely. That is if you want to play competively, and im not talking about solo q silver 1.
Your paper might be sharper or your rock (marginally) heavier. You still need to use them correctly. Every time I get interested in playing LoL again I remember I have to play another few hundred games just to have proper rune pages before I farm IP again to get the champs that are interesting. Then I give up and boot up DOTA. actually you can play right now without doing any of those things and be evenly matched Oh? What do you mean? he's lying and wrong. Locking important content behind a wall is P2W, you either pay in time or you pay out of pocket. But you're goddamn paying. And its VERY important to have access to every hero in a MOBA/ARTS ect It doesn't matter in league. The match ups are not that severe and there are only a few that come to mind that are really bad. It's a lot like a fighting game, where player skill over rides the minor imbalances of a specific match up. Oh my imagine hiding vanilla SF4 Sagat behind a 1000win/$20 wall.
Try 50 cents, the first micro-transaction. But you only get to play him till you lose.
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Made a few videos from the game - Check them out, more to come for hero ablities / skins preview!
Tutorial & Skins:
Map Previews:
Hero Abilities Preview:
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On March 15 2014 05:33 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 04:53 Shaella wrote:On March 15 2014 04:48 hariooo wrote:On March 15 2014 04:44 ComaDose wrote:On March 15 2014 04:38 hariooo wrote:On March 15 2014 04:24 Kipsate wrote:
If you are good enough at league that you need every champion then you have already played it enough to the point where you have the runes most likely. That is if you want to play competively, and im not talking about solo q silver 1.
Your paper might be sharper or your rock (marginally) heavier. You still need to use them correctly. Every time I get interested in playing LoL again I remember I have to play another few hundred games just to have proper rune pages before I farm IP again to get the champs that are interesting. Then I give up and boot up DOTA. actually you can play right now without doing any of those things and be evenly matched Oh? What do you mean? he's lying and wrong. Locking important content behind a wall is P2W, you either pay in time or you pay out of pocket. But you're goddamn paying. And its VERY important to have access to every hero in a MOBA/ARTS ect It doesn't matter in league. The match ups are not that severe and there are only a few that come to mind that are really bad. It's a lot like a fighting game, where player skill over rides the minor imbalances of a specific match up.
But that's the problem right? Pay 2 win has in it the definition that if 2 people are equally skilled can 1 of them buy a higher winrate? If in a fighting game you have to play for 20 hours or $5 for an A-tier character and every other character is C-tier I'd be pretty mad. Sure, if I was much better than my opponent I can overcome that, but pay 2 win isn't defined as "a pro with free characters must lose to an amateur with pay walled characters for this to be considered pay 2 win."
I think the biggest misconception is that a game is pay2win/not pay2win, it's a spectrum. For example, I consider LoL pay2win because I play dota and relative to dota LoL is pay2win. There are characters that are simple stronger mid, or w/e other role I want to do, than the 10 free heroes I can get (given similar skill levels) and that's a fact.
I think LoL is on the line between fair/unfair given how high the time sink requirements are for full rune pages/heroes. Say 2 new games came out that we call G1 and 2 where it's the exact same game as LoL except every single thing in G1 cost 100x less and everything in G2 cost 10x more. I think G1 would not be pay2win at all even compared to dota because how trivial it is to unlock everything. 1 game and you unlock every single cheap hero, a second game and you have 1/3 of the next tier. By the time you learn the game you have everything you need to stand on even ground as someone who paid. On the other hand, G2 would be a ridiculously pay2win game. You literally can't grind more than 1 hero a month.
Even though the concept in G2 is exactly the same as LoL -- i.e. you don't have to pay for anything, you can grind for all the stuff in the game that revolves around power -- it would be ridiculously farther on the side of pay2win that I think everyone playing LoL currently would call G2 a ridiculous pay2win game.
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On March 15 2014 05:49 Count9 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 05:33 Plansix wrote:On March 15 2014 04:53 Shaella wrote:On March 15 2014 04:48 hariooo wrote:On March 15 2014 04:44 ComaDose wrote:On March 15 2014 04:38 hariooo wrote:On March 15 2014 04:24 Kipsate wrote:
If you are good enough at league that you need every champion then you have already played it enough to the point where you have the runes most likely. That is if you want to play competively, and im not talking about solo q silver 1.
Your paper might be sharper or your rock (marginally) heavier. You still need to use them correctly. Every time I get interested in playing LoL again I remember I have to play another few hundred games just to have proper rune pages before I farm IP again to get the champs that are interesting. Then I give up and boot up DOTA. actually you can play right now without doing any of those things and be evenly matched Oh? What do you mean? he's lying and wrong. Locking important content behind a wall is P2W, you either pay in time or you pay out of pocket. But you're goddamn paying. And its VERY important to have access to every hero in a MOBA/ARTS ect It doesn't matter in league. The match ups are not that severe and there are only a few that come to mind that are really bad. It's a lot like a fighting game, where player skill over rides the minor imbalances of a specific match up. But that's the problem right? Pay 2 win has in it the definition that if 2 people are equally skilled can 1 of them buy a higher winrate? If in a fighting game you have to play for 20 hours or $5 for an A-tier character and every other character is C-tier I'd be pretty mad. Sure, if I was much better than my opponent I can overcome that, but pay 2 win isn't defined as "a pro with free characters must lose to an amateur with pay walled characters for this to be considered pay 2 win." I think the biggest misconception is that a game is pay2win/not pay2win, it's a spectrum. For example, I consider LoL pay2win because I play dota and relative to dota LoL is pay2win. There are characters that are simple stronger mid, or w/e other role I want to do, than the 10 free heroes I can get (given similar skill levels) and that's a fact. I think LoL is on the line between fair/unfair given how high the time sink requirements are for full rune pages/heroes. Say 2 new games came out that we call G1 and 2 where it's the exact same game as LoL except every single thing in G1 cost 100x less and everything in G2 cost 10x more. I think G1 would not be pay2win at all even compared to dota because how trivial it is to unlock everything. 1 game and you unlock every single cheap hero, a second game and you have 1/3 of the next tier. By the time you learn the game you have everything you need to stand on even ground as someone who paid. On the other hand, G2 would be a ridiculously pay2win game. You literally can't grind more than 1 hero a month. Even though the concept in G2 is exactly the same as LoL -- i.e. you don't have to pay for anything, you can grind for all the stuff in the game that revolves around power -- it would be ridiculously farther on the side of pay2win that I think everyone playing LoL currently would call G2 a ridiculous pay2win game.
No, that's not pay to win. Paying to win would give you free gold at the start of the match.
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On March 15 2014 05:51 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 05:49 Count9 wrote:On March 15 2014 05:33 Plansix wrote:On March 15 2014 04:53 Shaella wrote:On March 15 2014 04:48 hariooo wrote:On March 15 2014 04:44 ComaDose wrote:On March 15 2014 04:38 hariooo wrote:On March 15 2014 04:24 Kipsate wrote:
If you are good enough at league that you need every champion then you have already played it enough to the point where you have the runes most likely. That is if you want to play competively, and im not talking about solo q silver 1.
Your paper might be sharper or your rock (marginally) heavier. You still need to use them correctly. Every time I get interested in playing LoL again I remember I have to play another few hundred games just to have proper rune pages before I farm IP again to get the champs that are interesting. Then I give up and boot up DOTA. actually you can play right now without doing any of those things and be evenly matched Oh? What do you mean? he's lying and wrong. Locking important content behind a wall is P2W, you either pay in time or you pay out of pocket. But you're goddamn paying. And its VERY important to have access to every hero in a MOBA/ARTS ect It doesn't matter in league. The match ups are not that severe and there are only a few that come to mind that are really bad. It's a lot like a fighting game, where player skill over rides the minor imbalances of a specific match up. But that's the problem right? Pay 2 win has in it the definition that if 2 people are equally skilled can 1 of them buy a higher winrate? If in a fighting game you have to play for 20 hours or $5 for an A-tier character and every other character is C-tier I'd be pretty mad. Sure, if I was much better than my opponent I can overcome that, but pay 2 win isn't defined as "a pro with free characters must lose to an amateur with pay walled characters for this to be considered pay 2 win." I think the biggest misconception is that a game is pay2win/not pay2win, it's a spectrum. For example, I consider LoL pay2win because I play dota and relative to dota LoL is pay2win. There are characters that are simple stronger mid, or w/e other role I want to do, than the 10 free heroes I can get (given similar skill levels) and that's a fact. I think LoL is on the line between fair/unfair given how high the time sink requirements are for full rune pages/heroes. Say 2 new games came out that we call G1 and 2 where it's the exact same game as LoL except every single thing in G1 cost 100x less and everything in G2 cost 10x more. I think G1 would not be pay2win at all even compared to dota because how trivial it is to unlock everything. 1 game and you unlock every single cheap hero, a second game and you have 1/3 of the next tier. By the time you learn the game you have everything you need to stand on even ground as someone who paid. On the other hand, G2 would be a ridiculously pay2win game. You literally can't grind more than 1 hero a month. Even though the concept in G2 is exactly the same as LoL -- i.e. you don't have to pay for anything, you can grind for all the stuff in the game that revolves around power -- it would be ridiculously farther on the side of pay2win that I think everyone playing LoL currently would call G2 a ridiculous pay2win game. No, that's not pay to win. Paying to win would give you free golf at the start of the match.
what does that even mean?
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On March 15 2014 05:54 Count9 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 05:51 Plansix wrote:On March 15 2014 05:49 Count9 wrote:On March 15 2014 05:33 Plansix wrote:On March 15 2014 04:53 Shaella wrote:On March 15 2014 04:48 hariooo wrote:On March 15 2014 04:44 ComaDose wrote:On March 15 2014 04:38 hariooo wrote:On March 15 2014 04:24 Kipsate wrote:
If you are good enough at league that you need every champion then you have already played it enough to the point where you have the runes most likely. That is if you want to play competively, and im not talking about solo q silver 1.
Your paper might be sharper or your rock (marginally) heavier. You still need to use them correctly. Every time I get interested in playing LoL again I remember I have to play another few hundred games just to have proper rune pages before I farm IP again to get the champs that are interesting. Then I give up and boot up DOTA. actually you can play right now without doing any of those things and be evenly matched Oh? What do you mean? he's lying and wrong. Locking important content behind a wall is P2W, you either pay in time or you pay out of pocket. But you're goddamn paying. And its VERY important to have access to every hero in a MOBA/ARTS ect It doesn't matter in league. The match ups are not that severe and there are only a few that come to mind that are really bad. It's a lot like a fighting game, where player skill over rides the minor imbalances of a specific match up. But that's the problem right? Pay 2 win has in it the definition that if 2 people are equally skilled can 1 of them buy a higher winrate? If in a fighting game you have to play for 20 hours or $5 for an A-tier character and every other character is C-tier I'd be pretty mad. Sure, if I was much better than my opponent I can overcome that, but pay 2 win isn't defined as "a pro with free characters must lose to an amateur with pay walled characters for this to be considered pay 2 win." I think the biggest misconception is that a game is pay2win/not pay2win, it's a spectrum. For example, I consider LoL pay2win because I play dota and relative to dota LoL is pay2win. There are characters that are simple stronger mid, or w/e other role I want to do, than the 10 free heroes I can get (given similar skill levels) and that's a fact. I think LoL is on the line between fair/unfair given how high the time sink requirements are for full rune pages/heroes. Say 2 new games came out that we call G1 and 2 where it's the exact same game as LoL except every single thing in G1 cost 100x less and everything in G2 cost 10x more. I think G1 would not be pay2win at all even compared to dota because how trivial it is to unlock everything. 1 game and you unlock every single cheap hero, a second game and you have 1/3 of the next tier. By the time you learn the game you have everything you need to stand on even ground as someone who paid. On the other hand, G2 would be a ridiculously pay2win game. You literally can't grind more than 1 hero a month. Even though the concept in G2 is exactly the same as LoL -- i.e. you don't have to pay for anything, you can grind for all the stuff in the game that revolves around power -- it would be ridiculously farther on the side of pay2win that I think everyone playing LoL currently would call G2 a ridiculous pay2win game. No, that's not pay to win. Paying to win would give you free golf at the start of the match. what does that even mean?
It means he doesn't value time.
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On March 15 2014 05:54 Count9 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 05:51 Plansix wrote:On March 15 2014 05:49 Count9 wrote:On March 15 2014 05:33 Plansix wrote:On March 15 2014 04:53 Shaella wrote:On March 15 2014 04:48 hariooo wrote:On March 15 2014 04:44 ComaDose wrote:On March 15 2014 04:38 hariooo wrote:On March 15 2014 04:24 Kipsate wrote:
If you are good enough at league that you need every champion then you have already played it enough to the point where you have the runes most likely. That is if you want to play competively, and im not talking about solo q silver 1.
Your paper might be sharper or your rock (marginally) heavier. You still need to use them correctly. Every time I get interested in playing LoL again I remember I have to play another few hundred games just to have proper rune pages before I farm IP again to get the champs that are interesting. Then I give up and boot up DOTA. actually you can play right now without doing any of those things and be evenly matched Oh? What do you mean? he's lying and wrong. Locking important content behind a wall is P2W, you either pay in time or you pay out of pocket. But you're goddamn paying. And its VERY important to have access to every hero in a MOBA/ARTS ect It doesn't matter in league. The match ups are not that severe and there are only a few that come to mind that are really bad. It's a lot like a fighting game, where player skill over rides the minor imbalances of a specific match up. But that's the problem right? Pay 2 win has in it the definition that if 2 people are equally skilled can 1 of them buy a higher winrate? If in a fighting game you have to play for 20 hours or $5 for an A-tier character and every other character is C-tier I'd be pretty mad. Sure, if I was much better than my opponent I can overcome that, but pay 2 win isn't defined as "a pro with free characters must lose to an amateur with pay walled characters for this to be considered pay 2 win." I think the biggest misconception is that a game is pay2win/not pay2win, it's a spectrum. For example, I consider LoL pay2win because I play dota and relative to dota LoL is pay2win. There are characters that are simple stronger mid, or w/e other role I want to do, than the 10 free heroes I can get (given similar skill levels) and that's a fact. I think LoL is on the line between fair/unfair given how high the time sink requirements are for full rune pages/heroes. Say 2 new games came out that we call G1 and 2 where it's the exact same game as LoL except every single thing in G1 cost 100x less and everything in G2 cost 10x more. I think G1 would not be pay2win at all even compared to dota because how trivial it is to unlock everything. 1 game and you unlock every single cheap hero, a second game and you have 1/3 of the next tier. By the time you learn the game you have everything you need to stand on even ground as someone who paid. On the other hand, G2 would be a ridiculously pay2win game. You literally can't grind more than 1 hero a month. Even though the concept in G2 is exactly the same as LoL -- i.e. you don't have to pay for anything, you can grind for all the stuff in the game that revolves around power -- it would be ridiculously farther on the side of pay2win that I think everyone playing LoL currently would call G2 a ridiculous pay2win game. No, that's not pay to win. Paying to win would give you free golf at the start of the match. what does that even mean?
Auto correct got me. Free gold at the start of the match because you bought a booster.
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On March 15 2014 05:54 Count9 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 05:51 Plansix wrote:On March 15 2014 05:49 Count9 wrote:On March 15 2014 05:33 Plansix wrote:On March 15 2014 04:53 Shaella wrote:On March 15 2014 04:48 hariooo wrote:On March 15 2014 04:44 ComaDose wrote:On March 15 2014 04:38 hariooo wrote:On March 15 2014 04:24 Kipsate wrote:
If you are good enough at league that you need every champion then you have already played it enough to the point where you have the runes most likely. That is if you want to play competively, and im not talking about solo q silver 1.
Your paper might be sharper or your rock (marginally) heavier. You still need to use them correctly. Every time I get interested in playing LoL again I remember I have to play another few hundred games just to have proper rune pages before I farm IP again to get the champs that are interesting. Then I give up and boot up DOTA. actually you can play right now without doing any of those things and be evenly matched Oh? What do you mean? he's lying and wrong. Locking important content behind a wall is P2W, you either pay in time or you pay out of pocket. But you're goddamn paying. And its VERY important to have access to every hero in a MOBA/ARTS ect It doesn't matter in league. The match ups are not that severe and there are only a few that come to mind that are really bad. It's a lot like a fighting game, where player skill over rides the minor imbalances of a specific match up. But that's the problem right? Pay 2 win has in it the definition that if 2 people are equally skilled can 1 of them buy a higher winrate? If in a fighting game you have to play for 20 hours or $5 for an A-tier character and every other character is C-tier I'd be pretty mad. Sure, if I was much better than my opponent I can overcome that, but pay 2 win isn't defined as "a pro with free characters must lose to an amateur with pay walled characters for this to be considered pay 2 win." I think the biggest misconception is that a game is pay2win/not pay2win, it's a spectrum. For example, I consider LoL pay2win because I play dota and relative to dota LoL is pay2win. There are characters that are simple stronger mid, or w/e other role I want to do, than the 10 free heroes I can get (given similar skill levels) and that's a fact. I think LoL is on the line between fair/unfair given how high the time sink requirements are for full rune pages/heroes. Say 2 new games came out that we call G1 and 2 where it's the exact same game as LoL except every single thing in G1 cost 100x less and everything in G2 cost 10x more. I think G1 would not be pay2win at all even compared to dota because how trivial it is to unlock everything. 1 game and you unlock every single cheap hero, a second game and you have 1/3 of the next tier. By the time you learn the game you have everything you need to stand on even ground as someone who paid. On the other hand, G2 would be a ridiculously pay2win game. You literally can't grind more than 1 hero a month. Even though the concept in G2 is exactly the same as LoL -- i.e. you don't have to pay for anything, you can grind for all the stuff in the game that revolves around power -- it would be ridiculously farther on the side of pay2win that I think everyone playing LoL currently would call G2 a ridiculous pay2win game. No, that's not pay to win. Paying to win would give you free golf at the start of the match. what does that even mean?
It means that he considers your concept of a spectrum of more to less grossly exploitative f2p models to be a big lie and he has some arbitrary line as the definition of pay2win instead.
That line is how much free golf you get per game. And at $40 per round at the local course for me, that's a great deal.
Or he misspelled "gold".
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how does access to more and therefore possibly better characters not make it p2w
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On March 15 2014 05:55 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 05:54 Count9 wrote:On March 15 2014 05:51 Plansix wrote:On March 15 2014 05:49 Count9 wrote:On March 15 2014 05:33 Plansix wrote:On March 15 2014 04:53 Shaella wrote:On March 15 2014 04:48 hariooo wrote:On March 15 2014 04:44 ComaDose wrote:On March 15 2014 04:38 hariooo wrote:On March 15 2014 04:24 Kipsate wrote:
If you are good enough at league that you need every champion then you have already played it enough to the point where you have the runes most likely. That is if you want to play competively, and im not talking about solo q silver 1.
Your paper might be sharper or your rock (marginally) heavier. You still need to use them correctly. Every time I get interested in playing LoL again I remember I have to play another few hundred games just to have proper rune pages before I farm IP again to get the champs that are interesting. Then I give up and boot up DOTA. actually you can play right now without doing any of those things and be evenly matched Oh? What do you mean? he's lying and wrong. Locking important content behind a wall is P2W, you either pay in time or you pay out of pocket. But you're goddamn paying. And its VERY important to have access to every hero in a MOBA/ARTS ect It doesn't matter in league. The match ups are not that severe and there are only a few that come to mind that are really bad. It's a lot like a fighting game, where player skill over rides the minor imbalances of a specific match up. But that's the problem right? Pay 2 win has in it the definition that if 2 people are equally skilled can 1 of them buy a higher winrate? If in a fighting game you have to play for 20 hours or $5 for an A-tier character and every other character is C-tier I'd be pretty mad. Sure, if I was much better than my opponent I can overcome that, but pay 2 win isn't defined as "a pro with free characters must lose to an amateur with pay walled characters for this to be considered pay 2 win." I think the biggest misconception is that a game is pay2win/not pay2win, it's a spectrum. For example, I consider LoL pay2win because I play dota and relative to dota LoL is pay2win. There are characters that are simple stronger mid, or w/e other role I want to do, than the 10 free heroes I can get (given similar skill levels) and that's a fact. I think LoL is on the line between fair/unfair given how high the time sink requirements are for full rune pages/heroes. Say 2 new games came out that we call G1 and 2 where it's the exact same game as LoL except every single thing in G1 cost 100x less and everything in G2 cost 10x more. I think G1 would not be pay2win at all even compared to dota because how trivial it is to unlock everything. 1 game and you unlock every single cheap hero, a second game and you have 1/3 of the next tier. By the time you learn the game you have everything you need to stand on even ground as someone who paid. On the other hand, G2 would be a ridiculously pay2win game. You literally can't grind more than 1 hero a month. Even though the concept in G2 is exactly the same as LoL -- i.e. you don't have to pay for anything, you can grind for all the stuff in the game that revolves around power -- it would be ridiculously farther on the side of pay2win that I think everyone playing LoL currently would call G2 a ridiculous pay2win game. No, that's not pay to win. Paying to win would give you free golf at the start of the match. what does that even mean? Auto correct got me. Free gold at the start of the match because you bought a booster.
Pay to win means buying power, why does it have to be easily quantifiable power like gold? If I made ashe 2.0 that gave +10% dmg to all her skills for 500k IP or $40 that's fine?
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On March 15 2014 05:56 Shaella wrote:
how does access to more and therefore possibly better characters not make it p2w
because having those characters doesn't make you win. and you can get them for free.
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On March 15 2014 05:56 Shaella wrote:
how does access to more and therefore possibly better characters not make it p2w
That would be pay to win. But league of legends isn't like that. There are no better champions, only different ones. Some are strong due to the meta at the time, but it is normally a spectrum of champions, not one champion.
heroes is supposed to be the same way.
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On March 15 2014 05:57 Count9 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 05:55 Plansix wrote:On March 15 2014 05:54 Count9 wrote:On March 15 2014 05:51 Plansix wrote:On March 15 2014 05:49 Count9 wrote:On March 15 2014 05:33 Plansix wrote:On March 15 2014 04:53 Shaella wrote:On March 15 2014 04:48 hariooo wrote:On March 15 2014 04:44 ComaDose wrote:On March 15 2014 04:38 hariooo wrote:
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Every time I get interested in playing LoL again I remember I have to play another few hundred games just to have proper rune pages before I farm IP again to get the champs that are interesting. Then I give up and boot up DOTA. actually you can play right now without doing any of those things and be evenly matched Oh? What do you mean? he's lying and wrong. Locking important content behind a wall is P2W, you either pay in time or you pay out of pocket. But you're goddamn paying. And its VERY important to have access to every hero in a MOBA/ARTS ect It doesn't matter in league. The match ups are not that severe and there are only a few that come to mind that are really bad. It's a lot like a fighting game, where player skill over rides the minor imbalances of a specific match up. But that's the problem right? Pay 2 win has in it the definition that if 2 people are equally skilled can 1 of them buy a higher winrate? If in a fighting game you have to play for 20 hours or $5 for an A-tier character and every other character is C-tier I'd be pretty mad. Sure, if I was much better than my opponent I can overcome that, but pay 2 win isn't defined as "a pro with free characters must lose to an amateur with pay walled characters for this to be considered pay 2 win." I think the biggest misconception is that a game is pay2win/not pay2win, it's a spectrum. For example, I consider LoL pay2win because I play dota and relative to dota LoL is pay2win. There are characters that are simple stronger mid, or w/e other role I want to do, than the 10 free heroes I can get (given similar skill levels) and that's a fact. I think LoL is on the line between fair/unfair given how high the time sink requirements are for full rune pages/heroes. Say 2 new games came out that we call G1 and 2 where it's the exact same game as LoL except every single thing in G1 cost 100x less and everything in G2 cost 10x more. I think G1 would not be pay2win at all even compared to dota because how trivial it is to unlock everything. 1 game and you unlock every single cheap hero, a second game and you have 1/3 of the next tier. By the time you learn the game you have everything you need to stand on even ground as someone who paid. On the other hand, G2 would be a ridiculously pay2win game. You literally can't grind more than 1 hero a month. Even though the concept in G2 is exactly the same as LoL -- i.e. you don't have to pay for anything, you can grind for all the stuff in the game that revolves around power -- it would be ridiculously farther on the side of pay2win that I think everyone playing LoL currently would call G2 a ridiculous pay2win game. No, that's not pay to win. Paying to win would give you free golf at the start of the match. what does that even mean? Auto correct got me. Free gold at the start of the match because you bought a booster. Pay to win means buying power, why does it have to be easily quantifiable power like gold? If I made ashe 2.0 that gave +10% dmg to all her skills for 500k IP or $40 that's fine?
No, that would be pay to win. But lol doesn't work like that.
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can you guys take your "dota vs LoL" and "is LoL pay2win" garbage somewhere else? thank you
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EPT
