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On March 14 2014 16:06 Seiuchi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 15:50 Lokian wrote:
The thing is, bw had some mechanical limitations that made it difficult for people to be good at the game, but they were limitations that were uninteresting and can be compared to playing with one hand instead of two. I don't believe in those kind of limitations.
Strategy is comparable in sc2 and bw...
And with this game, there's definitely more strategies due to more objectives, it's pretty straight forward in that regard. As for the meta being stale, people just started playing this game so that's a very early claim. meta game can take a long time to figure out, or not.
You are right BW strategy totally dead ended in unbeatable comps like how before in ZvP Infestor/Brood Lord was unbeatable and now how Swarm Hosts are the only way Zerg can deal with late game Protoss which now is forced to go Tempests to beat mass Swarm Host. ALL THIS STRATEGY AND VARIETY SC2 GAVE US
huh, all late game strategies huh... kinda like carriers, bc air battle, muta vs muta winner takes all. everything is so perfect in this world.
I have a feeling this game won't have that great of an appeal to the younger casuals in LoL... mainly because it is not straight forward as farming your lane for 10 mins and maybe one gank. There's a lot going on in this game at the start of the game... The 5manning seems to be really rewarding... and that can take some coordination.
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On March 14 2014 15:50 Lokian wrote:
The thing is, bw had some mechanical limitations that made it difficult for people to be good at the game, but they were limitations that were uninteresting and can be compared to playing with one hand instead of two. I don't believe in those kind of limitations.
Strategy is comparable in sc2 and bw...
And with this game, there's definitely more strategies due to more objectives, it's pretty straight forward in that regard. As for the meta being stale, people just started playing this game so that's a very early claim. meta game can take a long time to figure out, or not.
The mechanical limitations of bw led to more playstyles since people had to allocate their apm between macro and micro even at the SSS class korean level.. julyzerg had 500+ apm in some games, yet still couldn't perfectly micro AND macro, leading to series of meaningful decisions that dictated numerous playstyles: some players allocated more heavily towards micro and some allocated more heavily towards macro. No one could "play perfectly," dictating the game to have a heavy influence on dynamic decision making that changed from game to game and player to player. In sc2, since it's relatively easy (you only need like 300 apmish to play :mechanically perfectly" compared to BW's 800 or 900 or whatever the AIs play at), the decision making is more straight forward since you know your opponent at the highest level isn't having to decide between micro and macro, meaning there's less of an information asymmetry. In BW, you would have to rely on your knowledge of the player and intuition about the current state of the game that you were playing to establish a read on your opponent's distribution to forecast what their next move was going to be (judging from if they were making tanks during the last fight or just intensely focusing on the battle).
For the reasons stated above, I think BW's mechanics are beautiful, brilliant, more rewarding to SSS class koreans, and more enjoyable in the end for b class pros/semi-pro players. The fact that the skill ceiling is above foreseeable human ability makes the game more human feeling, since it forces players to acknowledge their imperfections of input and processing and take that imperfection into account while optimizing their builds and long term game plans. It also makes broodwar dramatically different than sc2 at the highest level when comparing actual "strategy." If you're programming AI to optimize the game, they're relatively similar, it's the out of reach skill ceiling of BW that differentiates it in reality. I wish more devs would realize this and make more "hard" rts games to capitalize on BW's "archaic" mechanics, since they're what make RTS so much more fun to play than other awesome games like GO.
edit: there replaced with their.. zz
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On March 14 2014 16:19 Lokian wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 16:06 Seiuchi wrote:On March 14 2014 15:50 Lokian wrote:
The thing is, bw had some mechanical limitations that made it difficult for people to be good at the game, but they were limitations that were uninteresting and can be compared to playing with one hand instead of two. I don't believe in those kind of limitations.
Strategy is comparable in sc2 and bw...
And with this game, there's definitely more strategies due to more objectives, it's pretty straight forward in that regard. As for the meta being stale, people just started playing this game so that's a very early claim. meta game can take a long time to figure out, or not.
You are right BW strategy totally dead ended in unbeatable comps like how before in ZvP Infestor/Brood Lord was unbeatable and now how Swarm Hosts are the only way Zerg can deal with late game Protoss which now is forced to go Tempests to beat mass Swarm Host. ALL THIS STRATEGY AND VARIETY SC2 GAVE US huh, all late game strategies huh... kinda like carriers bc air battle, muta vs muta winner takes all. everything is so perfect in this world. I have a feeling this game won't have that great of an appeal to the younger casuals in LoL... mainly because it is not straight forward as farming your lane for 10 mins and maybe one gank. There's a lot going on in this game at the start of the game... The 5manning seems to be really rewarding... and that can take some coordination.
Except in those games there were incentives late game to split your forces with something other than warp prisms.
Also, are you actually saying the game where it locks you in your base before minions spawn has more strategies and variety than LoL? Even babby's first dota has more early game strats than that.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina983 Posts
Lets wait out before making judgement. If i understood correctly i think u can make your own maps so maybe we could get some sick gameplay from those custom maps.
I would just like to say to Blizz, LET ALL HEROES BE FREE 2 PLAY !!!!!!!! 
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On March 14 2014 13:02 Disengaged wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 12:38 Jaaaaasper wrote:
Wow from what I'm hearing this is more p2w for noobs than lol. I'm not even going to bother, I like my hatmoba2 just fine. Those cosmetic skins are totally pay2win. So, by your logic those cosmetic skins in LoL and cosmetic items in dota 2 are pay2win. /facepalm
I must not understand. Do people have to play to unlock heroes? Or is it just for cosemtics? If you have to pay to unlock playable characters its pay2win.
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On March 14 2014 16:40 Jaaaaasper wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 13:02 Disengaged wrote:On March 14 2014 12:38 Jaaaaasper wrote:
Wow from what I'm hearing this is more p2w for noobs than lol. I'm not even going to bother, I like my hatmoba2 just fine. Those cosmetic skins are totally pay2win. So, by your logic those cosmetic skins in LoL and cosmetic items in dota 2 are pay2win. /facepalm I must not understand. Do people have to play to unlock heroes? Or is it just for cosemtics? If you have to pay to unlock playable characters its pay2win.
atm it's the same as league: you can grind out currency in game to purchase both cosmetics or heroes, or you can buy it with USD or whatever.
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On March 14 2014 16:43 Endymion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 16:40 Jaaaaasper wrote:On March 14 2014 13:02 Disengaged wrote:On March 14 2014 12:38 Jaaaaasper wrote:
Wow from what I'm hearing this is more p2w for noobs than lol. I'm not even going to bother, I like my hatmoba2 just fine. Those cosmetic skins are totally pay2win. So, by your logic those cosmetic skins in LoL and cosmetic items in dota 2 are pay2win. /facepalm I must not understand. Do people have to play to unlock heroes? Or is it just for cosemtics? If you have to pay to unlock playable characters its pay2win. atm it's the same as league: you can grind out currency in game to purchase both cosmetics or heroes, or you can buy it with USD or whatever.
thats still p2w imo
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Bosnia-Herzegovina983 Posts
IDK how everyone is copying LoL and none dont copy dota 2s style with all free heroes and only paying 4 skins and shit 
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On March 14 2014 16:51 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 16:43 Endymion wrote:On March 14 2014 16:40 Jaaaaasper wrote:On March 14 2014 13:02 Disengaged wrote:On March 14 2014 12:38 Jaaaaasper wrote:
Wow from what I'm hearing this is more p2w for noobs than lol. I'm not even going to bother, I like my hatmoba2 just fine. Those cosmetic skins are totally pay2win. So, by your logic those cosmetic skins in LoL and cosmetic items in dota 2 are pay2win. /facepalm I must not understand. Do people have to play to unlock heroes? Or is it just for cosemtics? If you have to pay to unlock playable characters its pay2win. atm it's the same as league: you can grind out currency in game to purchase both cosmetics or heroes, or you can buy it with USD or whatever. thats still p2w imo
idk, i'm not on one side or the other on the p2w issue, league players don't seem to have an issue with the paywall in terms of having a competitive scene.
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On March 14 2014 17:00 Valhalla44 wrote:IDK how everyone is copying LoL and none dont copy dota 2s style with all free heroes and only paying 4 skins and shit
Probably because League is more popular and profitable? I mean, most companies are going to charge players as much as they can get away with. Blizzard sees that League is the dominant MOBA despite it having that pay model, so there's really no reason to think they wouldn't use it as well.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina983 Posts
On March 14 2014 17:02 Endymion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 16:51 Shaella wrote:On March 14 2014 16:43 Endymion wrote:On March 14 2014 16:40 Jaaaaasper wrote:On March 14 2014 13:02 Disengaged wrote:On March 14 2014 12:38 Jaaaaasper wrote:
Wow from what I'm hearing this is more p2w for noobs than lol. I'm not even going to bother, I like my hatmoba2 just fine. Those cosmetic skins are totally pay2win. So, by your logic those cosmetic skins in LoL and cosmetic items in dota 2 are pay2win. /facepalm I must not understand. Do people have to play to unlock heroes? Or is it just for cosemtics? If you have to pay to unlock playable characters its pay2win. atm it's the same as league: you can grind out currency in game to purchase both cosmetics or heroes, or you can buy it with USD or whatever. thats still p2w imo idk, i'm not on one side or the other on the p2w issue, league players don't seem to have an issue with the paywall in terms of having a competitive scene.
Well they probbaly grinded out all the heroes ages ago cuse 99% of them has more of 5k hours on LoL at least.
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On March 14 2014 16:51 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 16:43 Endymion wrote:On March 14 2014 16:40 Jaaaaasper wrote:On March 14 2014 13:02 Disengaged wrote:On March 14 2014 12:38 Jaaaaasper wrote:
Wow from what I'm hearing this is more p2w for noobs than lol. I'm not even going to bother, I like my hatmoba2 just fine. Those cosmetic skins are totally pay2win. So, by your logic those cosmetic skins in LoL and cosmetic items in dota 2 are pay2win. /facepalm I must not understand. Do people have to play to unlock heroes? Or is it just for cosemtics? If you have to pay to unlock playable characters its pay2win. atm it's the same as league: you can grind out currency in game to purchase both cosmetics or heroes, or you can buy it with USD or whatever. thats still p2w imo
Without runes it's much less of a big deal than in LoL.
Whenever I get interested to try out LoL again I remember I won't ever get to buy any cool heroes because I have to spend all my IP on runes to be "competitive".
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Those mounts in the game are pretty funny. Also $7,50 (or more) for a champ/hero/whatever they call it.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51458 Posts
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The lengths people go to to defend Blizzard's turds is staggering. If any other company made this people would be vomiting at how obviously shitty it is. Same goes for Diablo 3 and to some extent Starcraft 2, but lets keep their games alive so they can keep squeezing out new turds :D
User was warned for this post
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On March 14 2014 17:58 Animzor wrote:
The lengths people go to to defend Blizzard's turds is staggering. If any other company made this people would be vomiting at how obviously shitty it is. Same goes for Diablo 3 and to some extent Starcraft 2, but lets keep their games alive so they can keep squeezing out new turds :D
because blizzard has a record of making good games?
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On March 14 2014 18:15 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 17:58 Animzor wrote:
The lengths people go to to defend Blizzard's turds is staggering. If any other company made this people would be vomiting at how obviously shitty it is. Same goes for Diablo 3 and to some extent Starcraft 2, but lets keep their games alive so they can keep squeezing out new turds :D because blizzard has a record of making good games?
You mean until The Burning Crusade? Everything since then has been lackluster.
Nowadays, they aren't any better than your generic AAA company and they keep relying on their name.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina983 Posts
On March 14 2014 18:28 Lucumo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 18:15 ETisME wrote:On March 14 2014 17:58 Animzor wrote:
The lengths people go to to defend Blizzard's turds is staggering. If any other company made this people would be vomiting at how obviously shitty it is. Same goes for Diablo 3 and to some extent Starcraft 2, but lets keep their games alive so they can keep squeezing out new turds :D because blizzard has a record of making good games? You mean until The Burning Crusade? Everything since then has been lackluster. Nowadays, they aren't any better than your generic AAA company and they keep relying on their name.
Sir u are my hero ^^
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It's probably pointless to say this... people are people, and it's only natural such a game would attract toxic comments. But shouldn't you look at the game and its design rather than blaming it for being branded 'blizzard?' Not saying it's the best game out there or anything, but it's rather depressing to see people crap all over things that they don't know anything about yet. People are like that I get it, but someone had to say this...
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Heroes behind paywalls, maps with 2 lanes, no gold and items, I don't know what blizzard expects from this game. There are far better ARTS games right now.
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EPT
