EPTHeroes Large General Thread - Page 48
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FrozenProbe
Italy276 Posts
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Meerel
Germany713 Posts
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Quotidian
Norway1937 Posts
On November 11 2013 02:03 Meerel wrote: well after watching this showmatch, i dont think this game has any concept at all judging by that video, it looks like the game is mostly about fighting AI units and completing map objectives. I guess no items means no warding/de-warding, no smoke ganks, no real emphasis on map awareness or strategy.. just two teams mostly passing by each other like ships in the night or whatever, until eventually colliding in big, ugly teamfights. Blah.. might be fun to play, but not much fun to look at | ||
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algue
France1436 Posts
On November 11 2013 01:18 FakeDeath wrote: Yeah. HotS will obviously be casual and fun to play but will not have a high competitiveness factor in it. I mean how are u gonna be able to differentiate the better players or the worse players? Also one of the main reason why this game is getting attention really is the nostalgia factor. I mean they got all the iconic character from the Starcraft,Warcraft and Diablo Universe. Who wouldn't want to play Diablo/Zeratul/Arthas? Wasn't that what people said when LoL was released ? "this game is fun bbut nothing more, it will never be an esport" You don't want to differentiate the better players, you want to differentiate the better teams. That what a team game should be, a group of super gosu players playing with no teamplay should always lose against a group of good player with an exellent teamplay. You guys are so selfish The meta hasn't even started to developp on this game and you expect it to be something awesome to watch that you fully understand with some sick teamplay and polished strategies ? Give it time... | ||
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kyla50125
Italy3 Posts
Anyway, if it is for real, why they used the graphic engine wow style while they have D3 engine that is A LOT better in every terms? | ||
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Killmouse
Austria5700 Posts
On November 11 2013 04:10 kyla50125 wrote: I cannot still undertsand if this is a tru game or an april's fool.... Anyway, if it is for real, why they used the graphic engine wow style while they have D3 engine that is A LOT better in every terms? U got Apri fooled yes the gameplay vids are all fake and the cinematic trailer aswell Blizzard such trolls ~ | ||
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DonKey_
Liechtenstein1356 Posts
On November 11 2013 01:20 GogoKodo wrote: Having someone sit AFK or having horrible teammates doesn't really apply to a competitive setting. Right now it might feel like you get 1/5th of the rewards when you compare it to LoL or DotA but I would guess if you get used to playing Heroes it will just feel normal. From all the videos I've seen you definitely don't level up 1/5th the speed of LoL or DotA. As for casual play where having AFK or bad teammates is a concern. Something that's not fun right now in LoL or DotA is having an AFK or bad teammate. The AFK guy comes back after a bit or the bad teammate is really trying but they are just too far behind to help anywhere. Pretty much everything he had to say has been said about his game by DotA players. And SC players have said similar things about DotA. And SC:BW players have said the same thing about SC2. I think we just have to wait and see. He was at the convention and got to play so he has a better idea than a lot of people. I read that after the opening ceremonies the line for Heroes was 2+ hours so he couldn't have got very many games in. Having someone AFK doesn't apply to a professional setting, it most DEFINITELY applies to moba/dota games on a competitive setting. Dealing with griefers is one of the worst aspects to team games. It's not about "feeling" like you get 1/5th of the reward. You do. The experience you gain will never be higher than your team's, and there is no system in place to reward a player individually. I wouldn't have any issue with this myself if I was playing in a 5 stack, but this is VERY unappealing for matchmaking play where I spend the majority of the time playing. I have been part of the BW to SC2 transition, and experienced the differences of Dota2 and LoL. This is absolutely nothing like those. It's not a change to game mechanics of an existing game, its more or less inventing a new genre of game. The differences are absolutely massive. Among them: multiple maps, global experience, no shop, no last hitting, and heroes that cannot AA. All of the changes together make this game only vaguely resemble Dota2 or LoL for some one who has played either previously. I do think the game looks fun and plan to try it. On November 11 2013 01:38 The_Red_Viper wrote: I dont get this "no competitiveness factor" thing here. Good players will have the same options as in any other moba really, better positioning and teamfights, or trades on the lane if you will. Which team can contest the different objectives better by better positioning/teamfights/planning etc. I judt dont understand how you guys can say there is no option for all that only cause you dont have to lasthit and learn the best buildorder (yeah thats very hard and differentiates the chobo from the gosu, i see..) And dont forget, this is still an alpha version, if they really feel there is no skill involved (what is total bs but ok) then they will probably add some mechanics for that. Games grow into being a competitive games by players displaying skill in performing action in a game. When a game limits ways to display the skill of players it limits the competitive nature of the players. No one is contending that HotS holds inherited skill mechanics from Dota/LoL, but it takes away a very large number of them, while adding very few. "you guys" are not claiming anywhere that the removal of last hitting creates "no option for all that".(I assume this means competition) Last hitting was however one of the key skill factors that had to be managed in Dota/LoL. Build orders will be present in HotS whether you like it or not, I can guarantee you this. When only one system exists for customizing your character, an optimal build will be found very quickly for the characters intended role. Evidence of this is not only in LoL/Dota, but across a multitude of games from MMOs to SC2. I don't actually think Blizzard is concerned with whether HotS becomes competitive in the way SC2 did. They most certainly are not pushing for "e-sports" right out the gate like with SC2. This leads me to believe their focus is not as much on competitive features. All that said it's fine the game doesn't have to be everything, the casual fun approach can be very fun. | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On November 11 2013 02:59 algue wrote: Wasn't that what people said when LoL was released ? "this game is fun bbut nothing more, it will never be an esport" You don't want to differentiate the better players, you want to differentiate the better teams. That what a team game should be, a group of super gosu players playing with no teamplay should always lose against a group of good player with an exellent teamplay. You guys are so selfish The meta hasn't even started to developp on this game and you expect it to be something awesome to watch that you fully understand with some sick teamplay and polished strategies ? Give it time... Anything can be an eSport if enough money is put into it, and Blizzard thankfully isn't trying to make this game an eSport, because it shouldn't be. | ||
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Miragee
8715 Posts
On November 09 2013 19:32 lolfail9001 wrote: Yes, that's why David Kim had to answer the question you guys all remember and blame him for answering. Either way, i did not hear a thing about it but judging from post, i like their direction. No I don't remember. I didn't listen to nor read any blizzard interviews for quite a while. Doing so is, most of the time, a huge waste of time (like with every big gaming company today). What was it about? | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
I just think that people who think this game will take no skill at all are extremely close minded. The skill wont be lasthitting (lol as if lasthitting is interesting/hard to do) it will be teamfighting and the different strategies on these different maps. I am happy that there are no boring laning phases, cause they add nothing to the game in itself in my opinion. | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
And while I'm not saying that HotS won't be innovative at all, it doesn't really seem like this game actually needs to exist. I mean, what is it trying to bring to the table that DotA/LoL haven't already provided? 20 minute games? Doing the opposite of DotA/LoL when it comes to last-hitting/items etc? My fundamental problem with HotS is and has always been that it just looks/seems/feels so disorganized. I can't tell what they're actually trying to do here, nor why we need another MOBA game when there are already two (fairly new and dramatically evolving) titans. In order for such a thing to make sense to me, there needs to be some real passion or focus behind the game. This just feels like Mario Party but with Blizzard characters, which, while fun, certainly, doesn't really excite me. It's about perfectly last hitting while also playing your lane properly, harassing, pulling back, and so on. It's like in Sc2: any reasonably competent player can get to a high level in Marine Split challenge if they grind it for a few hours, but the people who are considered micro gods are the ones who can do insane things on the spot, without preparation, without expecting anything, and without ignoring everything else going on in the game. Same thing applies to most stuff in Dota/LoL. | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10167 Posts
Btw i get so confused whenever i read hots, because i don't know if people is going to flame sc2 or the moba. Why not call it blizzmoba and be done with it ? :p | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On November 11 2013 06:28 Godwrath wrote: I would like to know more about the f2p system, and off/in game "character" customization, because i couldn't really appreciate much by the videos. Judging the gameplay seems pretty hard, but i like the ideas behind it. Btw i get so confused whenever i read hots, because i don't know if people is going to flame sc2 or the moba. Why not call it blizzmoba and be done with it ? :p People are probably going to start calling it 'Heroes' rather than HotS. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On November 11 2013 06:24 Shiori wrote: It has the glamour that accompanies every Blizzard game. There are iconic characters, interesting level designs, and good voice acting. But the gameplay itself doesn't look that inspired or compelling. It's not so much that "different" is "bad" as it is that most of the differences I see here (versus games like LoL/DotA2, of course) seem to only exist for the sake of being different. There doesn't seem to be any real reason for a lot of these things. It's almost like they decided they wanted to make a snappy, faster MOBA, then brainstormed "what did Dota/LoL not do?" and went from there. To me, it just feels like they're innovating in reverse. You don't start by saying "we need to make a MOBA game now let's find some ways to innovate it so people buy it" (which is how this project felt to me from day one; again, my opinion only). You start by saying "here's a really awesome/innovative idea for a game! Let's make it!" And while I'm not saying that HotS won't be innovative at all, it doesn't really seem like this game actually needs to exist. I mean, what is it trying to bring to the table that DotA/LoL haven't already provided? 20 minute games? Doing the opposite of DotA/LoL when it comes to last-hitting/items etc? My fundamental problem with HotS is and has always been that it just looks/seems/feels so disorganized. I can't tell what they're actually trying to do here, nor why we need another MOBA game when there are already two (fairly new and dramatically evolving) titans. In order for such a thing to make sense to me, there needs to be some real passion or focus behind the game. This just feels like Mario Party but with Blizzard characters, which, while fun, certainly, doesn't really excite me. It's about perfectly last hitting while also playing your lane properly, harassing, pulling back, and so on. It's like in Sc2: any reasonably competent player can get to a high level in Marine Split challenge if they grind it for a few hours, but the people who are considered micro gods are the ones who can do insane things on the spot, without preparation, without expecting anything, and without ignoring everything else going on in the game. Same thing applies to most stuff in Dota/LoL. "and so on", i see.. You cant even name real differences cause they arent there, haha. They take lasthits away, yes, but what else is so more skillfull in other mobas? I dont see it, in hots you have to use different strategies based on the map (i think and guess thats the whole point here..), in lol and dota it is always the same map, i think that is more simple, no? As i said before, i see no reason why other mobas are so more skillfull, they just snowball harder and waste your time. (it is a pain in the ass to know the winner after 15 mins but have to play for another 15-30 mins cause the map is big) I think hots is way less snowbally and that alone is the reason why i look forwards to it and think it would be way more interesting to watch aswell | ||
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blabber
United States4448 Posts
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SidianTheBard
United States2475 Posts
Either way, it looks like it would be fun just because I get to play characters that I basically grew up with. That seems about the only enjoyable part for me. Gameplay wise, it just doesn't seem that interesting. | ||
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Zenbrez
Canada5973 Posts
On November 11 2013 06:28 Godwrath wrote: I would like to know more about the f2p system, and off/in game "character" customization, because i couldn't really appreciate much by the videos. Judging the gameplay seems pretty hard, but i like the ideas behind it. Btw i get so confused whenever i read hots, because i don't know if people is going to flame sc2 or the moba. Why not call it blizzmoba and be done with it ? :p Nobody really says 'hots' when referring to sc2, they just call it sc2. Probably a safe bet that 'hots' means heroes. Which, as somebody above mentioned (and I agree), people are probably going to just call it 'heroes' regardless. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16126 Posts
On November 11 2013 06:28 Godwrath wrote: I would like to know more about the f2p system, and off/in game "character" customization, because i couldn't really appreciate much by the videos. Judging the gameplay seems pretty hard, but i like the ideas behind it. Btw i get so confused whenever i read hots, because i don't know if people is going to flame sc2 or the moba. Why not call it blizzmoba and be done with it ? :p There will be skins and most likely mounts available for purchase in the game similar to how LoL works. For example: Uther's default skin was the Grand Marshal Armor from WoW but he also had a secondary full Judgment Armor with a Sulfuras skin available. Diablo had multiple colors to pick from and likely a female model as well. I also wouldn't be surprised if they copied Riot's model of introducing new characters for unlock that you can purchase points to unlock faster as well. With so many Blizzard titles to potentially choose from I can see them adding a lot of new champs that might not be available right away at release. But for the most part it's the vanity stuff. Each hero has a skin and a mount that they can use and each player can use different combinations if they want. It's there that I think most of the microtransactions for increased variety will likely take place. | ||
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neoghaleon55
United States7435 Posts
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GTPGlitch
5061 Posts
On November 11 2013 06:49 The_Red_Viper wrote: "and so on", i see.. You cant even name real differences cause they arent there, haha. They take lasthits away, yes, but what else is so more skillfull in other mobas? I dont see it, in hots you have to use different strategies based on the map (i think and guess thats the whole point here..), in lol and dota it is always the same map, i think that is more simple, no? As i said before, i see no reason why other mobas are so more skillfull, they just snowball harder and waste your time. (it is a pain in the ass to know the winner after 15 mins but have to play for another 15-30 mins cause the map is big) I think hots is way less snowbally and that alone is the reason why i look forwards to it and think it would be way more interesting to watch aswell I really hope you're joking.... The laning phase is about using your skill to keep up farm, reduce opponent's farm, freeze the lane, and keep safely avoid ganks. Heroes will take away basically everything interesting about MOBA games before 30+ minutes - it's a total joke. Global exp, no items, no wards, and gimmick jungle + turret mechanics do not make a good game. Global exp is ridiculous because suddenly ganks are useless before you get strong enough to take turrets - you don't slow down leveling, and there's no items so nothing else matters in the game. It will probably just be a farmfest for ~15 minutes and then everybody max levels at the same time and groups up and teamfights. It's an entirely artificial game that just supports the same deathball disease that pervades sc2 toss. Any sort of risk is unnecessary because there are no mechanics outside of levels. The smartest way to play is to just afk farm a lane until you max and then group, yolo at the enemy, and whoever wins that fight wins the game. No reason on earth to leave lane except to take a merc camp, and, again, those are only useful if you're sure you can kill towers, which means that 2-3 enemy heroes have to be dead, which would only happen if the enemy team is stupid and decides to not afk farm->group. You won't play unnecessarily 15 minutes after the winner is decided - you'll play 15 unnecessary minutes of farming and then have a teamfight and then the game will be over. There's no snowball period, which is absolutely stupid game design. No advantage to the winner of lane phase, because there is no winner, because creeps will inevitably die, and that means everyone gets experience even if they're dead and there's no items so someone on the enemy team being dead is worthless if the other 4 are alive. As it is it's a waste of time. Should just be "here's a max level hero with a few customization options, teamfight and then take towers, glhf" if blizzard insists on no gold/items/global exp, because that's already the optimal way to play. | ||
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