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Heroes Large General Thread - Page 408

Forum Index > Heroes of the Storm
9055 CommentsPost a Reply
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Add yourself in the TL Player list if you want to play with TL people, and /join teamliquid channel ingame. Also check out the new Heroes Liquipedia.
Holloworb
Profile Joined November 2011
Norway345 Posts
April 26 2015 18:05 GMT
#8141
Are anyone using the in game teamliquid channel? I've never seen anyone active in it.
[Phantom]
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
Mexico2170 Posts
April 26 2015 18:24 GMT
#8142
I'm always on the TL channel, on NA server though. But yeah, TLers should be more friendly to one another.
WriterTeamLiquid Staff writer since 2014 @Mortal_Phantom
kingjames01
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada1603 Posts
April 26 2015 18:40 GMT
#8143
On April 27 2015 03:24 [Phantom] wrote:
I'm always on the TL channel, on NA server though. But yeah, TLers should be more friendly to one another.


When I'm logged into the game, I'm in the channel too. Usually, there's very little chatter in it though.

Anyone going to be watching Heroes of the Dorm? Maybe we can use the TL channel as our own personal twitch chat while we watch the stream together! :D
Who would sup with the mighty, must walk the path of daggers.
Darthsanta13
Profile Joined July 2011
United States564 Posts
April 26 2015 22:38 GMT
#8144
So I'm just getting into hero league, and something challenging for me is to know how to build a good team. I have a general idea of 1-2 healers, 1 tank, rest dps/specialist, but I guess I'm not sure how to make the pieces fit together, or what makes one comp better than another. Is there a drafting resource that helps with stuff like this? I know watching pro streams is a good idea, but at the same time, I don't know enough about hots to know what is applicable at my mediocre, uncoordinated team level, and what isn't.
TMG26
Profile Joined July 2012
Portugal2017 Posts
April 26 2015 23:28 GMT
#8145
Just pick what you are good at.
Supporter of the situational Blink Dagger on Storm.
TokO
Profile Joined July 2011
Norway577 Posts
April 26 2015 23:31 GMT
#8146
On April 27 2015 07:38 Darthsanta13 wrote:
So I'm just getting into hero league, and something challenging for me is to know how to build a good team. I have a general idea of 1-2 healers, 1 tank, rest dps/specialist, but I guess I'm not sure how to make the pieces fit together, or what makes one comp better than another. Is there a drafting resource that helps with stuff like this? I know watching pro streams is a good idea, but at the same time, I don't know enough about hots to know what is applicable at my mediocre, uncoordinated team level, and what isn't.


I think one thing that helps a lot in terms of drafting is to be able to class heroes in a more substantial way than Blizzards classification. Just a disclaimer, I'm not a rank 1 player or anything, and this kind of analysis is not set in stone, just some understanding that you will hopefully develop as you play.

The first level is to recognise their roles beyond their blizz class. Heroes such as Sgt Hammer and Nazeebo are classified as specialists, but are really good as Ranged DPS's. Other cases are where Warriors aren't necessarily good Tanks, such as Anub'arak, who might bring a little more aoe utility potential, but in return is not very tanky, Sonya is a similar hero in that regard.

Second level is to recognise that heroes is either low impact or high impact. Low impact heroes have more versatility but less burst (Abathur is usually a low impact hero, although he is able to rack up high hero dmg from consistently being in fights). High impact heroes have a lot of burst, usually AoE (Think of Jaina, Tychus, Sgt Hammer's Napalm Strike, even Gazlowe's bomb combo.). Heroes can also come inbetween the impact levels depending on how on playstyle, skill and talents being specced. Impact factor can also be used as a measure of healing or tankiness. But let's focus on the dps case. Ever had games where you thought you had an alright composition but could just never kill the enemy or even win a fight that should be favoured? Usually this is because of having too many low impact characters. If the team is mediocre in everything, it also means that they are inadequate in everything.

Third level is knowing what your team needs. While there is a standard composition, the heroes being picked in that standard composition needs to fulfill certain criteria with regard to the issues discussed above. Choose the wrong ones and your composition might be a lot weaker. Trying to draft with Illidans has proven to be quite a good lesson. Illidans without a robust frontline and support is usually focused and spanked out of the game. I had success in quickmatch with a Lili-Illidan-Muradin combo. The single most important factor was probably that Muradin was able to either completely lock down a pick with bolt and bodyblock, resulting in successful ganks, as well as in teamfight, with thunderclap and eventually double stormbolt with rewind, you can basically neutralise the enemies main dps, usually resulting in the other team not having enough impact to deal with Illidans sustain. Another case is freak compositions, 5 specialists is perfectly capable of winning against a regular composition, sometimes quite easily as you make a level lead.

I think making a drafting guide is really difficult, as heroes wil fulfill different roles depending on how they are talent specced. It is best to just try and accumulate experience with a wide variety of heroes. The worst part about HotS as you learn more is playing with people who are completely butchering talent speccs. People who doesn't play their main role is more prone to do this I think. I also think that everyone will develop different views on champions depending on how they see them being played, so I'm not going to claim that my classifications are 100% in all cases.

TL;DR:
1. Heroes fulfill roles beyond their classification.
2. Have enough burst to win a teamfight, burst is important to prevent being run over or just being focused down even if the enemy stacks.
3. Build around your team, amplify your teams strengths and reduce your weaknesses.
Darthsanta13
Profile Joined July 2011
United States564 Posts
April 26 2015 23:52 GMT
#8147
On April 27 2015 08:28 TMG26 wrote:
Just pick what you are good at.


Yeah- typically I just focus on my own game and getting better in that way, but sometimes, especially when I'm fourth or fifth pick, I'm not sure which hero would fit better with the team between the few heroes I like, especially since they have such diverse roles.

On April 27 2015 08:31 TokO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2015 07:38 Darthsanta13 wrote:
So I'm just getting into hero league, and something challenging for me is to know how to build a good team. I have a general idea of 1-2 healers, 1 tank, rest dps/specialist, but I guess I'm not sure how to make the pieces fit together, or what makes one comp better than another. Is there a drafting resource that helps with stuff like this? I know watching pro streams is a good idea, but at the same time, I don't know enough about hots to know what is applicable at my mediocre, uncoordinated team level, and what isn't.


I think one thing that helps a lot in terms of drafting is to be able to class heroes in a more substantial way than Blizzards classification. Just a disclaimer, I'm not a rank 1 player or anything, and this kind of analysis is not set in stone, just some understanding that you will hopefully develop as you play.

The first level is to recognise their roles beyond their blizz class. Heroes such as Sgt Hammer and Nazeebo are classified as specialists, but are really good as Ranged DPS's. Other cases are where Warriors aren't necessarily good Tanks, such as Anub'arak, who might bring a little more aoe utility potential, but in return is not very tanky, Sonya is a similar hero in that regard.

Second level is to recognise that heroes is either low impact or high impact. Low impact heroes have more versatility but less burst (Abathur is usually a low impact hero, although he is able to rack up high hero dmg from consistently being in fights). High impact heroes have a lot of burst, usually AoE (Think of Jaina, Tychus, Sgt Hammer's Napalm Strike, even Gazlowe's bomb combo.). Heroes can also come inbetween the impact levels depending on how on playstyle, skill and talents being specced. Impact factor can also be used as a measure of healing or tankiness. But let's focus on the dps case. Ever had games where you thought you had an alright composition but could just never kill the enemy or even win a fight that should be favoured? Usually this is because of having too many low impact characters. If the team is mediocre in everything, it also means that they are inadequate in everything.

Third level is knowing what your team needs. While there is a standard composition, the heroes being picked in that standard composition needs to fulfill certain criteria with regard to the issues discussed above. Choose the wrong ones and your composition might be a lot weaker. Trying to draft with Illidans has proven to be quite a good lesson. Illidans without a robust frontline and support is usually focused and spanked out of the game. I had success in quickmatch with a Lili-Illidan-Muradin combo. The single most important factor was probably that Muradin was able to either completely lock down a pick with bolt and bodyblock, resulting in successful ganks, as well as in teamfight, with thunderclap and eventually double stormbolt with rewind, you can basically neutralise the enemies main dps, usually resulting in the other team not having enough impact to deal with Illidans sustain. Another case is freak compositions, 5 specialists is perfectly capable of winning against a regular composition, sometimes quite easily as you make a level lead.

I think making a drafting guide is really difficult, as heroes wil fulfill different roles depending on how they are talent specced. It is best to just try and accumulate experience with a wide variety of heroes. The worst part about HotS as you learn more is playing with people who are completely butchering talent speccs. People who doesn't play their main role is more prone to do this I think. I also think that everyone will develop different views on champions depending on how they see them being played, so I'm not going to claim that my classifications are 100% in all cases.

TL;DR:
1. Heroes fulfill roles beyond their classification.
2. Have enough burst to win a teamfight, burst is important to prevent being run over or just being focused down even if the enemy stacks.
3. Build around your team, amplify your teams strengths and reduce your weaknesses.


Thanks, this is a really helpful post. I know that asking how to be good at drafting is probably only one step more specific than asking how to be good at moba's, but this is still really helpful information. I've definitely had the problem you mentioned about not having enough burst. I'm sure it'll come in time, I just need to play more, I guess.
TokO
Profile Joined July 2011
Norway577 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-27 13:39:13
April 27 2015 00:06 GMT
#8148
I think there are two small advices that are really helpful as well when it comes to approach. Have an open mind, but take advantage of the knowledge that's there before you. Don't be afraid of choosing a tier-1 pick. For example, I play a lot of Valla, because I like to have a control variable when learning new heroes. What do I give up against what do I receive, when I go from Valla to Sgt Hammer for example. If the enemy has a really strong frontline, then rain of vengeance is really good for peeling and providing CC for yourself. If Spider Mines are adequate to zone away enemy melee, then maybe Sgt Hammer is a better pick as she performs better at range.

Following that advice. It is good to start with a few heroes and expand your pool gradually. This allows you to pay more attention to your draft and synergy than building your hero itself.

EDIT: I think HotS separates itself from other games in terms of drafting, as the kits of heroes will be lot more varying depending on talent speccs, while in Mobas the kits always converge to the same point.
Immersion_
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom794 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-27 20:11:11
April 27 2015 20:10 GMT
#8149
On April 27 2015 03:05 Holloworb wrote:
Are anyone using the in game teamliquid channel? I've never seen anyone active in it.


What's the channel name? Teamliquid? Couldn't find it posted anywhere...
http://www.twitch.tv/sybar1te Sybarite#2581 - add me for Heroes games. .Play Hots and Overwatch currently. Feel free to add.
[Phantom]
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
Mexico2170 Posts
April 27 2015 20:25 GMT
#8150
Yeah, just write /join teamliquid
WriterTeamLiquid Staff writer since 2014 @Mortal_Phantom
ptbl
Profile Joined January 2011
United States6074 Posts
April 28 2015 00:19 GMT
#8151
Does anyone know if EG disbanded? I haven't seen them play for a while and Idra's liquipedia says he's retired.
Don't mind me
lestye
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States4208 Posts
April 28 2015 00:32 GMT
#8152
On April 28 2015 09:19 ptbl wrote:
Does anyone know if EG disbanded? I haven't seen them play for a while and Idra's liquipedia says he's retired.

It looks like. 3 of the old members are on Murloc Geniuses and Idra retired.
"You guys are just edgelords. Embrace your inner weeb desu" -Zergneedsfood
ptbl
Profile Joined January 2011
United States6074 Posts
April 28 2015 00:55 GMT
#8153
On April 28 2015 09:32 lestye wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2015 09:19 ptbl wrote:
Does anyone know if EG disbanded? I haven't seen them play for a while and Idra's liquipedia says he's retired.

It looks like. 3 of the old members are on Murloc Geniuses and Idra retired.


Team Snowflake/EG was one of the best teams in NA. I wonder if they had internal conflicts...
Don't mind me
kingjames01
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada1603 Posts
April 28 2015 00:58 GMT
#8154
On April 28 2015 09:19 ptbl wrote:
Does anyone know if EG disbanded? I haven't seen them play for a while and Idra's liquipedia says he's retired.


I recently asked about them and was told that the team disbanded.
Who would sup with the mighty, must walk the path of daggers.
Wuster
Profile Joined May 2011
1974 Posts
April 28 2015 01:28 GMT
#8155
On April 28 2015 09:55 ptbl wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2015 09:32 lestye wrote:
On April 28 2015 09:19 ptbl wrote:
Does anyone know if EG disbanded? I haven't seen them play for a while and Idra's liquipedia says he's retired.

It looks like. 3 of the old members are on Murloc Geniuses and Idra retired.


Team Snowflake/EG was one of the best teams in NA. I wonder if they had internal conflicts...


They didn't really keep up their success. They went to Blizzcon, got signed permanently by EG and then seemed to fall off. Cloud9 made their grand entrance during Blizzcon and never really looked back, while Barrel Boys (now Complexity) and Symbiotic Gaming (now Tempo Storm) both seemed to rise up to overtake them as well.

Now, this is just my impression, but I never got the sense that EG's players were 'all-in' on being progamers. More they were playing a game they had fun with and competed at it as long as they felt able to. Maybe I'm wrong as I have talked to exactly no one, but that's just the vibe I got from the team.
sM.Zik
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada2552 Posts
April 28 2015 08:36 GMT
#8156
So i'm back at rank 4, which is the highest I got a while ago before dropping to *13* after losing so many games. Though first time I got to rank 4 it was by massing 4 and 5 stacks, now I got back to it mostly by solo queues, which surprises me. Having a good attitude and trying to help the team/make calls goes a long way when partying solo.
Jaedong Fighting! | youtube.com/ZikGaming
lestye
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States4208 Posts
April 28 2015 09:42 GMT
#8157
On April 28 2015 10:28 Wuster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2015 09:55 ptbl wrote:
On April 28 2015 09:32 lestye wrote:
On April 28 2015 09:19 ptbl wrote:
Does anyone know if EG disbanded? I haven't seen them play for a while and Idra's liquipedia says he's retired.

It looks like. 3 of the old members are on Murloc Geniuses and Idra retired.


Team Snowflake/EG was one of the best teams in NA. I wonder if they had internal conflicts...


They didn't really keep up their success. They went to Blizzcon, got signed permanently by EG and then seemed to fall off. Cloud9 made their grand entrance during Blizzcon and never really looked back, while Barrel Boys (now Complexity) and Symbiotic Gaming (now Tempo Storm) both seemed to rise up to overtake them as well.

Now, this is just my impression, but I never got the sense that EG's players were 'all-in' on being progamers. More they were playing a game they had fun with and competed at it as long as they felt able to. Maybe I'm wrong as I have talked to exactly no one, but that's just the vibe I got from the team.

idk, the whole orgs signing teams like such a short time before Blizzcon, it screamed like Blizzard compensating those orgs with money, exposure, or hell Blizzcon tickets for signing their teams and incorporating their brands to legitimize HOTS esports.

So, maybe it wasn't necessarily planned to be long-term. C9 Jack and Nazgul seemed content with hots esports for the time being, so maybe thats unfair to say?
"You guys are just edgelords. Embrace your inner weeb desu" -Zergneedsfood
Wuster
Profile Joined May 2011
1974 Posts
April 28 2015 17:15 GMT
#8158
That's true, there's an interview I believe where Idra basically said that EG was only picking up Snowflake for Blizzcon. But after Blizzcon EG changed their mind and decided to make a go of it. Which just reinforced my opinion that Snowflake was just seeing what they could get done rather than really putting their blood/sweat/tears into it.

Not that there's anything wrong with that! Just saying I'm not totally surprised they disbanded and I doubt it had anything to do with internal issues.
Psyonic_Reaver
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States4342 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-29 12:23:21
April 29 2015 12:21 GMT
#8159
I don't understand match making. I get that it will throw a curve ball every once and awhile to test your MMR but to put me, a Rank 17 with a Rank 32, Rank 31 and two Rank 40's against a 5man premade of Rank 1's.

Wut????

We lost Tomb in 6 minutes. It was unreal.

Edit: Also did they remove Nova/Zeratul blur when they are mounted? Since like, 3-4 days ago I can't see them when mounted anymore, only when unmounted and moving.
So wait? I'm bad? =(
Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4783 Posts
April 29 2015 12:30 GMT
#8160
At what time of the day did you play that game?
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