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On February 05 2015 03:23 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2015 02:36 Sponkz wrote:On February 05 2015 01:51 TKSaga wrote:
Is there a tier list of best to worst heroes? I've made a tier-list that i posted on a FB-community i'm part of. If you want further explanation, i can send the whole thing on PM. + Show Spoiler +S-tier: Stiches - Tychus – Valla – Muradin* – Zeratul
A-tier: Brightwing - Arthas – Nazeebo – Falstad –Uther – Tassadar – Kerrigan
B-tier: Thrall* – Illidan – Tyrael – Malfurion - Sergeant Hammer* - Li Li
C-tier: Zagara - ETC - Jaina - Raynor – Abathur*– Gazlowe*
D-tier: Nova* - Anub’arak – Tyrande - Sonya
E-tier: Chen* – Rehgar – Azmodan – Murky – Diablo That's an interesting list. Tell me a little more about the placements of Muradin and Rehgar.
Not much to say really. Muradin is just S-tier in my world, where you don't go balls out for Q in hopes of doing something your hero isn't built for. The Q-max build is like A-tier at best, if you ask me. He can be much more useful and he's the best tank to run as a "Main-tank" very easily allowing flexibility for his team (mura/zera, mura/thrall, mura/arthas etc. etc.)
Rehgar is just meh. Either you designate 1 person to stop his ancestral healing, or you just wait for him to use it on a bait-target, then nuke whoever's not getting it. He needs number tweaking just like the other E-tier heroes, but i think it's kinda depressing to play a melee support without any hard-CC before level 16.
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I don't think you could argue against Raynor being one of the duller heroes to play.
Meant to quote ahstwini there.
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On February 05 2015 20:59 ahswtini wrote:
So I just got into beta, playing raynor and I don't know how to use my abilities. They have short cooldown but also seem to have very little effect (coming from dota here). Should I just spam them?
Yes. Spam everything except your ultimate i guess
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On February 05 2015 21:43 Immersion_ wrote:
I don't think you could argue against Raynor being one of the duller heroes to play.
Meant to quote ahstwini there.
I would argue against it. I find Valla multishot builds and Tycho more boring to play than him, Raynor requires more precise targeting, has a skill shot and the lack of escape makes you to really think about your positioning a lot more in fights than you would with Valla or Tychus, not to speak about dodging stuff, and has insane burst potential, but you really need to be into it to get the best out of him because it is very easy to be bad with him. People tend to recomend Raynor for newbyes when it's the oppossite, i would recomend Tychus or Valla (specially Valla) if they want to play a Ranged assassin since they truly are easier and more forgiving to play.
Different tastes i guess.
I would say that Malfurion is the most boring character to play, but Arthas is a close second. Illidan is just pure fun tho.
And either with Raynor and Illidan, don't spam if you don't have to. Pushing evade at the right times is crucial (ie Thralls uses windury), same for Sweeping strike and dive, for dodging stuff or being able to run away/get into an enemy after a CC right away, or just to stun body block with the skills. With Raynor you should save the Inspire when you and your teammates have good targets, or use it when you want to push a lane. About Penetrating round, use it mostly to interrupt, push melees away, or when you have the stun, to set up kills (love killing thralls in the stun with it). You can also use Penetrating round to finish of heroes, since it's very likely you will get the cooldown up right away, but you have to judge if it's worth it spending it right away, because the CC and burst damage from it + autoattack is very nice (normally you can basically finish off squishys at half health just with that).
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I agree that Valla multishots is more boring than Raynor. Arthas is fun though LOL when you don't take the usual evenom etc.
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Raynor is really tough to play effectively. Valla basically plays herself since you can get good milage out of just skirting the battle and launching W's. Which is why she's probably the most newbie friendly and easiest to play hero in the game. With Raynor you need to make sure you aren't exposed but you need to make sure you are also close enough to get the most out of your Searing/Berserk timer. He's tough but rewarding.
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Yes Raynor DPS is pretty good, you just don't see it right away.
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Raynor scales really well into the late game. He has really good attack growth (40+12) and a fairly slow attack speed. Which means when you pop searing + berserk things just melt.
I'm not saying he is better than Tychus or Valla because he is not but he is often dismissed I feel too quickly.
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Talking of Raynor, which ultimate is better? I have been using the Hyperion so far (and upgraded it later) because it seems to do more damage than the banshees, is that correct?
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Mexico2170 Posts
It is not 
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ok, thanks 
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On February 05 2015 21:43 Sponkz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2015 03:23 xDaunt wrote:On February 05 2015 02:36 Sponkz wrote:On February 05 2015 01:51 TKSaga wrote:
Is there a tier list of best to worst heroes? I've made a tier-list that i posted on a FB-community i'm part of. If you want further explanation, i can send the whole thing on PM. + Show Spoiler +S-tier: Stiches - Tychus – Valla – Muradin* – Zeratul
A-tier: Brightwing - Arthas – Nazeebo – Falstad –Uther – Tassadar – Kerrigan
B-tier: Thrall* – Illidan – Tyrael – Malfurion - Sergeant Hammer* - Li Li
C-tier: Zagara - ETC - Jaina - Raynor – Abathur*– Gazlowe*
D-tier: Nova* - Anub’arak – Tyrande - Sonya
E-tier: Chen* – Rehgar – Azmodan – Murky – Diablo That's an interesting list. Tell me a little more about the placements of Muradin and Rehgar. Not much to say really. Muradin is just S-tier in my world, where you don't go balls out for Q in hopes of doing something your hero isn't built for. The Q-max build is like A-tier at best, if you ask me. He can be much more useful and he's the best tank to run as a "Main-tank" very easily allowing flexibility for his team (mura/zera, mura/thrall, mura/arthas etc. etc.) Rehgar is just meh. Either you designate 1 person to stop his ancestral healing, or you just wait for him to use it on a bait-target, then nuke whoever's not getting it. He needs number tweaking just like the other E-tier heroes, but i think it's kinda depressing to play a melee support without any hard-CC before level 16.
I agree that Muradin is really under appreciated, I think it's around A tier or w/e.
Rehgar on the other hand... He has the best win/lost of all the heroes in master league (i think tied with brightwing). I totally feel like this hero is top tier rofl, I couldn't believe my eyes to see him so low on your list, especially after agreeing with Muradin. So far I've been the only one singing his praises!
Anyhow, I just started playing Rehgar and I feel like you're underestimating the chasing potential and general control offered by Rehgar. He can always escape fights if positioned correctly and he can chase down people. He can also scout very well since he won't be dismounted upon getting hit. I dunno I really like him so far but I'm not in ranked play yet so I guess I dunno for sure yet!
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I don't understand why you guys think that Muradin is underrated. He is pretty much one of the most solid and common tank choices on EU for some time already. Different meta on NA ?
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On February 05 2015 15:52 Brian333 wrote:
At lengthy queues, the system loosens parameters but tries to strike a balance by at least keeping the average MMR of the two teams equal. That means you might have a team of 3k MMR players mixed with 1k MMR players playing against a team of 2k MMR players. That's something I have noticed. If you care, just keep cancelling your queue until you get a fast queue.
I don't believe it waits for all people, just one person that can't get matched starts the craziness.
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8748 Posts
On February 05 2015 05:46 Garsecg wrote:
Wanted to share a Lili build I made the other day that I've been having a ton of fun with. I'm open to suggestions and curious if anyone thinks it would be good in hero league (I just got level 30, need a few more heroes before I jump in).
WATER DRAGON HUSTLE
1. Gale Force (Increases Blinding Wind damage by 50%)
4. Mass Vortex (Increase number of cyclones from 2 to 4)
7. Pitch Perfect (After casting healing brew, it's cost is reduced by 10 mana for 6 seconds)
10.Water Dragon (key points: 45 second cooldown, 70% slow, low-moderate damage)
13.Surging Winds (20% ability power for each cyclone hit)
16.Herbal Cleanse (Clear all roots/silences etc. and gain 20% move speed)
20. Kung-Fu Hustle (Cooldowns regenerate THREE TIMES AS FAST while fast feet is active)
Okay, so I don't have any numbers on this, but here's how it works.
Up to level 20, you play pretty conservatively. You heal your team when you can, push lanes, and help out to the best of your ability.
Once you hit level 20, you become a demon. You cannot press the "Q" button faster than the GCD will allow you. All roots and effects on you are cleared with herbal cleanse every second. You move very fast. Water Dragon is cast twice every fight, if not three times, and when the enemy team is slowed down to 30% move speed for four seconds, it's very, very easy to survive.
Even in the middle stages of the game, I find water dragon to be very powerful. If there is another support on the team, I think lili as an offensive option is EXTREMELY good.
The main drawback of the build is you give up mana regeneration to be deadlier. I think that's okay. 30-60 seconds of this Lili is very, very powerful. And if it's 30 seconds, that means the enemy is focusing you, and you absorb all the damage WHILE doing damage, making it worthwhile. Pitch perfect helps alleviate the cost from spamming the heal. You never cast her serpent really.
I also find blinding wind, by hitting four targets and prioritizing heroes every time, is also very helpful as far as survivability goes.
I just tried this for one game and it feels like it suffers from the problems anyone would imagine:
--it's weak early game. in my view it's taking talents that benefit more from kung fu hustle, so before you have kung fu hustle, you're relatively weaker. the exception being lvl 16 talent, where two for one has better synergy with kung fu hustle
--it encounters mana problems. mid-game it's not so bad. you can have mana for all the important fights. but late game, the idea especially of using 3 water dragons in a single fight.. impossible. if you open with it, use your abilities constantly, then you may be able to end with a 2nd water dragon and then you'll be out of mana. i guess this fits with not playing lili as sustain though
--speaking of mana, 1000 cups is a super mana efficient heal. even when you go for healing and mana efficiency build (mana regen, healing over time, healing totem) you still find yourself using your ult just for mana efficient healing. any time you take water dragon, that's an indirect negative to your mana pool
--shake it off is almost a must-have talent against certain team comps. being forced into not taking pitch perfect is gonna be yet another blow to your output
--surging winds (gain ability power from blinding wind) synergizes best with 1000 cups. mass vortex + surging winds -> 1000 cups is the real power play here. blinding almost their whole team then doing a powered up 1000 cups
I think when you solo queue and get matched with a lot of tanks/supports, you can strongly consider building Lili for more damage. And she can do a surprising amount with her damage talents. But I'm not sure this build is the best way to go about it. I still think Lili is a hero where you mostly want to make every talent choice individually every single game.
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On February 06 2015 02:07 Godwrath wrote:
I don't understand why you guys think that Muradin is underrated. He is pretty much one of the most solid and common tank choices on EU for some time already. Different meta on NA ?
hum yeah I dunno as I said I'm still leveling my account so I don't know much about the meta. I just thought, from the conversations I've had with people playing the game, that it wasn't picked that much. If it is, well that just confirms what I've been thinking : this hero kicks ass.
Like yeah he does tank a lot, especially with Avatar, but later on it can push lane with the immolate and you just get so much control with his Q. I always level up the upgraded range leap too so you can always get out of the fights then reengage. I have no idea if my build is what pro player do but it seems to be working out well in the lower leagues.
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On February 06 2015 02:07 Godwrath wrote:
I don't understand why you guys think that Muradin is underrated. He is pretty much one of the most solid and common tank choices on EU for some time already. Different meta on NA ?
You're preaching to the choir here. I think Muradin is a very solid tank and have argued as such multiple times. Hell, I got into an argument with OxyGG about it in the Thrall Patch Analysis thread. I've seen some really, really good Muradins who can control games with him. One NA player in particular who is awesome with Muradin is MrJPickles. Watch him play Muradin -- or better yet, play against him -- and then come back and tell me that Muradin is weak.
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ESL Major league EU about to start boys.
They get the stoneform to be able to tank better for the most part. Otherwise it's pretty straightforward for the most part, improve your Q, get rewind and avatar.
@xDaunt i don't watch NA for the most part, that's why i genuinely asked.
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On February 06 2015 03:05 Godwrath wrote:
@xDaunt i don't watch NA for the most part, that's why i genuinely asked.
The NA scene undervalues a lot of the melee heroes compared to the EU scene -- Muradin included. Frankly, I think that the NA scene is behind the curve.
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EPT
