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Mexico2170 Posts
On February 05 2015 04:44 Hellonslaught wrote:
I would like to hear a good explanation behind Valla's multishot talent tree
I hope i understand your question correctly, so here it is the explanation:
Most people think that the multishot build is better than the autoatack one because its more safe, so it lets you stay on the fights longer (the more time you are alive the more damage you can deal), it also has the beneffit of being an aoe build, which in some maps is better than others. Theres also the fact that the multishot, even if you deal less damage to a sinlge target, it makes you able to "siege" a lane pretty well, so it ends up being a great all around choice.
I'll explain every talent and why is it taken:
-Composite arrows: This one increases the range of multishot. It the backbone of the build, because not only does it makes you be safer, but the whole area of the skill is increased, and more area=more damage. Its also good when an enemy tries to escape.
-Arsenal:This one makes you shoot 3 grenades, which to be honest, doesn't sounds that great, however they serve two purpouses: First, they inrease by a little the overall damage of the skill, (that is, if they hit) and Second, and the most important thing, it just make valla have a pretty awesome wave clear, while also being able to hit with the granes the 3 front structures (2 towers and gate) from the enemy if you use it at the right angle. The other options on this tier are also pretty good, but are more focused to a basic atack build, and Hungering arrow is not, as "reliable" i would say.
-Battle momentum: Since this is a build based on skills, you'll want to take this talent which reduces the cooldown of your abilities for every basic atack, so you can use more your abilities. So even though you'll need to get closer to make your basic atacks, having them reduce your cooldowns will make you able to spam your abilities too, and since the cooldowns will be shorter you'll be able to get back to the safetly of being behind of yourr team while still doing damage.
-Strafe/rain of vengace: Which heroic you chose depends on the map and enemy team comp. In a map with small areas susceptible to aoe, you'll want to use rain of vengance, or if you need to stun someone. On a more open map you could use strafe, but take into account the enemy team comp, because strafe puts you at more risk and can be canceled by stuns, it works better versus a team with lots of squishies, while rain of veangance is a little better agaisn't a "tankier" team i think.
Frost shot: It makes the enemies go slowers by a 40%, thats a lot, and makes valla great at chasing people. Not only that, but in teamfights moving slower makes you more succeptible to being focused or recieving more easily skillshots. The other talents on this tier aren't as good, or are focused more to an autoatack build.
Blood for blood: Well, it just makes you deal some damage supper fast that the enemy may not be expecting, while also healing yourself. It opens up strategic decitions, since if you target it vs a tank, you'll get more health, but targetting a tank isn't optimal most of the times, so you kind of have to think about who you'll use it with. It also slows the target, and as i explained above thats pretty good. Now, the other talents on this tier are pretty good too, stoneskin, executioner and tumble, which enables you to hold up to two charges of vault. the thing is that Blood for blood is better than executioner for dealing damage because you won't want to be focusing on autoatacking, and it has also the potential to be better in defense than stoneskin cause it can give you more health. Now i think tumble is pretty unexplored, and could work too, but its more situational, but you can do lots of cool stuff with it, but again, it kind of works better with an autoatack build, but there's another reason....
Blink: Well, blink kind of gives you a better vault, so even if it comes 4 levels later, it would be kind of redundant to have 2 vault charges and blink at lvl 20. In general, blink is the better choice on this talent tier.
So as you probably noticed, a lot of the decitions of why do you choose some talents over others are made based on sinergy, because in general is better to specialize on something than to be a jack of all trades, and as i said earlier, at this moment, with the current meta, multishot is the "better choice".
Now, before the multishot build was pupular, the most used one was based around basic atacks, this was a great build that took advantage of valla's trait, and all the options she has on her talents. Something i want to make very clear is that this build is still complety viable, maybe not at the highest lvl, but on diamond and below it is. In fact, i would say that it isn't just only viable, but its better on some situations, for example, if the enemy team has just one tank and his main dps are meele assasins or not very bursty ones, i think the AA build is still better.
So, i suggest you try other builds and try to think why or why not they are viable. I've had a game for example where a guy used a variation of the AA build, and he could solo the golem pretty fast, i don' know if that is really viable (we won though :D) but i think it's worth to give other strats a try and not just get carried by what the pros use on their particular meta.
Also if someone wants to play with me you can add me Phantom#1128 i'm also on the Teamliquid channel ingame (not right now, but when im in game  ). Altough even though im 40 if we play i would preffer to play quickmatch, since ranked, well, you know If you can give feedback for my play that'd be aprreciated, and if i can and you need/want feedback i could help you too.
EDIT: i play on NA
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On February 05 2015 14:24 NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2015 13:48 xDaunt wrote:
Seriously, I need to know wtf Blizzard did to the matchmaking. I get stuck with people who have no business being in a game with me practically every game. I've had one game over the past week where there were genuinely competent people on both sides. It was NEVER like this before the Beta. Pretty sure there was some wonky matchmaking in alpha at certain phases. I remember it was good at one point with the same top players matching with each other every game, and then after one reset it was never the same. But there were long stretches of alpha I didn't play. Did you play all of alpha? I think people thought it was happening because the system "punishes" group queues by boosting their MMR. The justification is that groups have a better chance at being coordinated and they know each other's picks. So they should be able to perform better than their average MMR. So high MMR solo queue players were getting in weird games with players on both sides being pretty horrible because those players weren't solo queuing. And even if there is no artificial MMR boost for groups, high MMR players can still group with newbs and drag them into your games. You should ask people if they solo queued. If it's all solo queue, then yeah it's pretty weird and broken. I've noticed the same thing, though I haven't had a chance to get top MMR again since the last reset. I get a game full of competent players about 1/4 or 1/3 of the time.
I've been playing since October, so I was in the last 3 1/2 months of Alpha. It probably took about a month or so for me to really learn the game, and then I shot up the MMR charts. All along the way, I generally felt like I was being matched about where I should be. During the last month or so, I was consistently being matched with people who were high MMR like I was. I rarely saw people who were obviously clueless at the game. Yeah, I'd had some brief streaks of games where I was stuck with bad teams, but it always seemed to even itself out.
Beta has been a different story. I had bit of a rough start with the MMR reset going into hero league, but then was quickly back up to winning 75% of my games and launched myself to level 4 solo queuing. Things seemed to be back to normal. Then, about a week ago, everything went to hell matchmaking-wise and has just stayed that way (seems to coincide roughly with when the beta buy-in guys would start showing up in hero league). It's just driving me nuts to see the game experience regress so severely. I really was enjoying myself during Alpha -- more than I have with any other game in years.
I've talked with some other players that I know who were in Alpha, and they've had similar experiences. Something's clearly broken with the matchmaking system. I find it hard to believe that an influx of players would cause it. Matchmaking should be easier with larger populations -- not harder.
EDIT: Also, I actually have a losing record when duo-queuing. It's like b.net reserves a special breed of newb to saddle me with as a punishment whenever I try to stack the odds in my favor.
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On February 05 2015 13:11 sushiko wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2015 12:02 [SXG]Phantom wrote:
Ranked is getting worse and worse for me, now when someone cant play the hero they want/their comp is not the best, they leave the draft <.< aren't the penalties strong enough? or do people just don't care? Wait doesn't the match cancel? I recall that one match got cancelled and never went past picks when someone left. Hasn't really happened to me except for that one time and didn't really think anything of it. If anything you dodged a bullet because playing with a guy who can only play 1 hero tends to be a guy you don't want to play with anyways. (Selfish/narcissistic/full of bs) And tier lists shouldn't exist... Stitches is the only hero I've found to be consistently stronger based off hotslogs across all levels, so expect some kind of nerf soon. Honestly if you can't find ways to exploit each heroes play style then the tier list is here for you, along with the builds all laid out. What I would rather hear is the term flavor of the month, as it's much more accurate, doesn't attribute any sort of op or underpowered connotations.
Yea, I think he dodged a bullet. Unless you were partied with that guy, you should suffer no penalties? I wish some people would've been that courteous to me after being AFK for their pick and getting stuck with a hero they were terrible with.
And tier lists are fine. The problem is that people don't understand them. Tier lists should always be understood within their context. There is a meta and the list shifts accordingly but outside of nerfs, nothing extremely drastic and unexplainable has happened. When the same heroes have been at the top and have consistently been early picks for a long time, it's no longer flavor of the month.
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I think a part of why solo queue might be the way it is is because good players don't solo queue.
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On February 05 2015 15:23 Brian333 wrote:
I think a part of why solo queue might be the way it is is because good players don't solo queue.
Why would that suddenly change between Alpha and Beta?
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Because hero league was introduced and people like to be tryhards. I assume you are complaining about hero league and not QM.
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On February 05 2015 15:30 Brian333 wrote:
Because hero league was introduced and people like to be tryhards. I assume you are complaining about hero league and not QM.
Yes, I am talking about hero league, but QM is an even bigger dumpster fire.
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A lot of my higher MMR friends / people I occasionally play with used to QM solo queue because they stopped caring about hotslogs MMR after they were solidly high diamond / masters. While the user base was smaller, it was all concentrated into QM because there was no other way to just play against human competition (outside of custom games).
Now, they all use QM to level / test out / learn heroes they don't normally play.
And, when they play HL, it's very frequently in a duo+ queue because why solo queue? The toxicity seems to be a lot higher now that precious ranked points are on the line and it's not like they lack groups to join.
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Caldeum1977 Posts
I just played 3 quick matches because I wanted to try a free week hero, and got at least 1 ally per game that had just bought the beta within 1-3 days each. Hotslogs says I'm at like 3400. Mmr aside, it should not group up player level 30+ or so with sub-10s. It just doesn't make any sense and hurts everyone involved since the higher levels have to deal with clueless people (I know everyone was at some point but they shouldn't be paired together) and the lower levels have to deal with getting wrecked every game including getting flamed by teammates for being new (saw some of that tonight).
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At lengthy queues, the system loosens parameters but tries to strike a balance by at least keeping the average MMR of the two teams equal. That means you might have a team of 3k MMR players mixed with 1k MMR players playing against a team of 2k MMR players. That's something I have noticed. If you care, just keep cancelling your queue until you get a fast queue.
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Caldeum1977 Posts
On February 05 2015 15:52 Brian333 wrote:
At lengthy queues, the system loosens parameters but tries to strike a balance by at least keeping the average MMR of the two teams equal. That means you might have a team of 3k MMR players mixed with 1k MMR players playing against a team of 2k MMR players. That's something I have noticed. If you care, just keep cancelling your queue until you get a fast queue.
Every queue was within 10 seconds or so I believe. But the new players were just so bad against 2k-ish players we only had a glimmer of hope in 1 game, and still got beat badly. For instance when you control both dragon shrines and a raynor runs right passed it even while we all are spam pinging it and telling him to get it and he has no clue, he should not be in a game with higher level people. I'm actually wondering if the initial question of prior moba experience when you first get the game where one of the options is "veteran" or something boosts the starting mmr point by a good deal and so they get placed with high people. That might explain some of it.
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Well it's surprising that is the case. The only time I run into that is at 6 minute queue timers. If a queue pops within 10s for me, it's usually an organized team of diamond / masters players and I know I'm getting owned.
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To all the high MMR guys who are finding it painful, you're not the only ones.
As I explained in a previous post I'm new to mobas and I'm only lvl 9 or so but I checked out some VoDs and I've got the hang of the basics quite nicely but my god teams can be so hit or miss. People just dive in to 3v5s or when they have ults and we don't ,despite me saying 'dont engage guys, we need to be careful' or spamming retreat to get them to fall back when we've pushed them back enough.. but not they keep going, overextend and we all die, I've been playing Diablo so my mindset is that as a tank, if they're stupid enough to engage I kind of have to.
I've even been yelled at a few times for running from a fight despite me being the tank, I didn't run from the fight, I just didn't initiate and was already falling back when a Valla / Tyrande decided to dive in with their ult and die.
I'm definitely not good, I made bad calls or mis-micro a lot and I'm still fuzzy about when to group and when to lane post lvl 10 but I at least understand some of the basics of pressure, engagement and positioning. I do play with some good people too, but it really is a coin toss at this stage, I don't mind losing either, its just a bit annoying when you're winning quite nicely but can never full push to the core because Azmodan has decided to solo the whole game and fight camps or Valla / Nova refuse to stay behind you and initiate fights they shouldn't or constantly overextended, fair play, we all do it from time to time but if half the moba community are the types of people who ignore friendly advise, constantly repeat mistakes and then rage at you when you lose I'm not sure I want to stick around much longer, definitely don't want to spend money on the game at the moment. Gives you a bit of a crisis of confidence, maybe I'm the shit one and I just don't get it at all... but then things go well and I make some good friends and we wreck face.
For the record, I picked the second lowest option for experience when I started the game.
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I don't think it's any grand conspiracy. I think the greater understanding of the game has changed a lot.
I'm regularly in games with people in the 30's and 40's who have no idea what they're doing.
Just got out of a Blackheart's game where Tychus and Murky spent the entire game split pushing and we had an Arthas do nothing but die trying to fight 3v5 (well 2v5 or 1v5, as I declined to die with him and our 5th player often had better sense too).
Then while the rest of my team is dead and other team is shelling us I go around taking small camps. I end up with 7 coins and get yelled at for 'hording coins'. I die along with the rest of the team when we wipe defending core with Arthas and Murky nowhere to be seen and somehow these 7 coins are why we lost. When I checked profiles, only Murky was under level 15 (and he played pretty decently I thought).
So ya... people developed bad habits or something during Alpha and are getting exposed for it now. Except now they're vets and well, have a lot of misplaced confidence.
Anyways I'm also not good, but I am at least aware of that fact, so some questions for those that are good =p.
More Zeratul issues - how exactly do you position yourself so that you aren't running useless around in the late game? Do I just shadow my warriors / team? I think I'm roaming too much as I'm missing a lot of fights small skirmishes mid/late game. Do I just follow whoever's being aggressive or stay back where I think they might be being aggressive (and possibly overextend).
Also, in the above game there really didn't seem to be a good time to engage as 2 players were always on the wrong side of the map and the other team stuck together. Am I right just going around taking objectives? Or should I still be trying to get in and blow someone up?
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On February 05 2015 18:38 Wuster wrote:
I don't think it's any grand conspiracy. I think the greater understanding of the game has changed a lot.
I'm regularly in games with people in the 30's and 40's who have no idea what they're doing.
Just got out of a Blackheart's game where Tychus and Murky spent the entire game split pushing and we had an Arthas do nothing but die trying to fight 3v5 (well 2v5 or 1v5, as I declined to die with him and our 5th player often had better sense too).
Then while the rest of my team is dead and other team is shelling us I go around taking small camps. I end up with 7 coins and get yelled at for 'hording coins'. I die along with the rest of the team when we wipe defending core with Arthas and Murky nowhere to be seen and somehow these 7 coins are why we lost. When I checked profiles, only Murky was under level 15 (and he played pretty decently I thought).
So ya... people developed bad habits or something during Alpha and are getting exposed for it now. Except now they're vets and well, have a lot of misplaced confidence.
Anyways I'm also not good, but I am at least aware of that fact, so some questions for those that are good =p.
More Zeratul issues - how exactly do you position yourself so that you aren't running useless around in the late game? Do I just shadow my warriors / team? I think I'm roaming too much as I'm missing a lot of fights small skirmishes mid/late game. Do I just follow whoever's being aggressive or stay back where I think they might be being aggressive (and possibly overextend).
Also, in the above game there really didn't seem to be a good time to engage as 2 players were always on the wrong side of the map and the other team stuck together. Am I right just going around taking objectives? Or should I still be trying to get in and blow someone up?
since the buy-in It seems I'm consistently matched up with terrible players and losing a lot as a result. I'm a really bad player when it comes to matches with bad players against other bad players because I stink at coaching them or just following what they do. Sometimes I ask and I get matched with people rank 40 or something while i'm level 5. I don't get how they messed up the system so much, why not just match the newbies together and the more veteran players together?
As for zeratul later on you just want to dart around your own team a bit but a bit further out making sure the team get's good engagements. A void prison can start off a good fight out of nowhere if you have good wombo combo's. Otherwise just wait for those straying from the back a bit and try to safely do some damage with wormhole and double bomb.
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On February 05 2015 15:14 Brian333 wrote:
And tier lists are fine. The problem is that people don't understand them. Tier lists should always be understood within their context. There is a meta and the list shifts accordingly but outside of nerfs, nothing extremely drastic and unexplainable has happened. When the same heroes have been at the top and have consistently been early picks for a long time, it's no longer flavor of the month.
I'll admit that I haven't been following competitive hots for very long, i didn't know it existed till a month ago and I started playing in sept/oct. But as you say, the meta is what really determines which heroes are picked. I suggested flavor of the month because it's a term I've seen used in Dota, and a hero can be the flavor for more than a month, but it'll still be called flavor of the month. With heroes of the storm being so young, I don't think it'll help the game out by making these misguiding tier lists that everyone on reddit/here are seemingly mistaking it for hero power/op/weak with multiple tiers. Like really? You're gonna have god/S/A/B/C/Shit tier for 30 heroes with a game that has multiple maps, and hopefully a potential for innovative team compositions? The shitstorm about Thrall being placed C tier by some single pro player made half of the people claim he's weak/easy to counter/should never be picked when Thrall clearly was doing fine, if not above average in pugs. Having tier lists have never helped the game evolve, for example Smash melee/brawl/4. Smash 4 has been out for maybe 2 months and everyone is saying diddy is the new metaknight. So all the pros play metaknight till he gets banned, and the other characters are left to rot in low tiers. Same deal in Smash 4 with Diddy Kong.
Smash aside, a more relavent example is dota. There is no real tier list, every hero is strong/capable and has something unique to bring to the game, the only factor is team synergy vs team composition vs team matchups. As the meta changes, the heroes picked will change. Flavor of the month will emerge, but no discussion of why x hero is god tier vs A/B/C tier. I'm really confused as to why tier lists exist in this game, my guess is that since heroes are locked behind a paywall they need some sort of metric to "properly" buy the op heroes or something. This kind of mentality will lead to staleness in the game faster than it needs to be. Don't get me wrong, FotM also leads to staleness as everyone is picking what pros pick anyways, but at least there aren't divisible metrics to argue about.
What we really need to get this started is a guide of every hero, a quick primer on strength/weakness, synergy/counters, and general playstyle. Something like liquiddota's outdated 30sec guide to every hero, but with less cookiecutter builds and more general tips.
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hey approx. how long do HOTS games take to play?
I just played tutorial last night, but I don't necessarily have 1hr+ in a row like I need for ranked LoL to make sure I don't have to afk before game ends atm.
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On February 05 2015 20:43 Complete wrote:
hey approx. how long do HOTS games take to play?
I just played tutorial last night, but I don't necessarily have 1hr+ in a row like I need for ranked LoL to make sure I don't have to afk before game ends atm.
20-25 mins in my experience.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
So I just got into beta, playing raynor and I don't know how to use my abilities. They have short cooldown but also seem to have very little effect (coming from dota here). Should I just spam them?
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On February 05 2015 20:59 ahswtini wrote:
So I just got into beta, playing raynor and I don't know how to use my abilities. They have short cooldown but also seem to have very little effect (coming from dota here). Should I just spam them?
Put on your thinking cap
Do some thinking
Decide.
Basically it depends in the most logical way possible. Is an ability low mana and low cd, go crazy. Is it high mana or high cd, better think twice.
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EPT
