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On January 27 2015 05:55 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2015 05:41 Eliezar wrote:
That's so dumb it isn't even funny and I don't even believe there is a clear tier 1 outside of Thrall and Stitches...(I could just be upset because I lost a 1v1 to a Thrall who was at 25% health because his healing was more than my dps...and I was at 100% health...) Haha, yeah, Thrall is hilarious. I played a game last night where the enemy Stitches would keep eating me at the beginning of teamfights (ie he beelined right for me). While I was rotting in his stomach, the rest of his team would be dumping their major burst damage and ultimates on my teammates. Every time, I'd pop out of stitches at like 25% health, and go to work with windfury. I'd be at nearly full health within 2 seconds and would just mow down one enemy hero after another. So retarded. I looked at Zuna's updated tier list, and he moved Thrall down to Tier 3. So dumb. No hero with that damage, sustainability, and utility is Tier 3. Period. He's hands down the best offtank in the game.
Cmon man cc stop Thrall dead on the tracks.
Thats the only problem i see in Thrall.
Windufy, next muradin goes cc, boom windufry stopped, windufy again, rewind, cc, stopped again, if you have another hero by your side with good dps Thrall is dead.
The problem with Thrall is that cc stuns and roots make him obsolete.
Not only muradin can stop him, that was just an example, uther can hard counter him, brightwing can polymorph, stitches level 16 can stun.
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On January 27 2015 06:40 CJPD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2015 05:55 xDaunt wrote:On January 27 2015 05:41 Eliezar wrote:
That's so dumb it isn't even funny and I don't even believe there is a clear tier 1 outside of Thrall and Stitches...(I could just be upset because I lost a 1v1 to a Thrall who was at 25% health because his healing was more than my dps...and I was at 100% health...) Haha, yeah, Thrall is hilarious. I played a game last night where the enemy Stitches would keep eating me at the beginning of teamfights (ie he beelined right for me). While I was rotting in his stomach, the rest of his team would be dumping their major burst damage and ultimates on my teammates. Every time, I'd pop out of stitches at like 25% health, and go to work with windfury. I'd be at nearly full health within 2 seconds and would just mow down one enemy hero after another. So retarded. I looked at Zuna's updated tier list, and he moved Thrall down to Tier 3. So dumb. No hero with that damage, sustainability, and utility is Tier 3. Period. He's hands down the best offtank in the game. Cmon man cc stop Thrall dead on the tracks. Thats the only problem i see in Thrall. Windufy, next muradin goes cc, boom windufry stopped, windufy again, rewind, cc, stopped again, if you have another hero by your side with good dps Thrall is dead. The problem with Thrall is that cc stuns and roots make him obsolete. Not only muradin can stop him, that was just an example, uther can hard counter him, brightwing can polymorph, stitches level 16 can stun.
And which hero does CC not "stop dead on the tracks"?
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It's easier to CC a melee tho.
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On January 27 2015 06:45 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2015 06:40 CJPD wrote:On January 27 2015 05:55 xDaunt wrote:On January 27 2015 05:41 Eliezar wrote:
That's so dumb it isn't even funny and I don't even believe there is a clear tier 1 outside of Thrall and Stitches...(I could just be upset because I lost a 1v1 to a Thrall who was at 25% health because his healing was more than my dps...and I was at 100% health...) Haha, yeah, Thrall is hilarious. I played a game last night where the enemy Stitches would keep eating me at the beginning of teamfights (ie he beelined right for me). While I was rotting in his stomach, the rest of his team would be dumping their major burst damage and ultimates on my teammates. Every time, I'd pop out of stitches at like 25% health, and go to work with windfury. I'd be at nearly full health within 2 seconds and would just mow down one enemy hero after another. So retarded. I looked at Zuna's updated tier list, and he moved Thrall down to Tier 3. So dumb. No hero with that damage, sustainability, and utility is Tier 3. Period. He's hands down the best offtank in the game. Cmon man cc stop Thrall dead on the tracks. Thats the only problem i see in Thrall. Windufy, next muradin goes cc, boom windufry stopped, windufy again, rewind, cc, stopped again, if you have another hero by your side with good dps Thrall is dead. The problem with Thrall is that cc stuns and roots make him obsolete. Not only muradin can stop him, that was just an example, uther can hard counter him, brightwing can polymorph, stitches level 16 can stun. And which hero does CC not "stop dead on the tracks"?
Stiches, Muradin, Uther.
Thats only some, because they dont channel the abilities they have.
This is the first moba ive played, maybe not as expert, but Stitches dosent "channel ?" the abilities neither does Muradin, i think Uther dosent channel either, new to the game gender correct me if im wrong.
Always nice to learn.
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I guess I'm doing it wrong because even with 2 ccs I couldn't get his hitpoints down because of his self healing...
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On January 27 2015 06:59 CJPD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2015 06:45 xDaunt wrote:On January 27 2015 06:40 CJPD wrote:On January 27 2015 05:55 xDaunt wrote:On January 27 2015 05:41 Eliezar wrote:
That's so dumb it isn't even funny and I don't even believe there is a clear tier 1 outside of Thrall and Stitches...(I could just be upset because I lost a 1v1 to a Thrall who was at 25% health because his healing was more than my dps...and I was at 100% health...) Haha, yeah, Thrall is hilarious. I played a game last night where the enemy Stitches would keep eating me at the beginning of teamfights (ie he beelined right for me). While I was rotting in his stomach, the rest of his team would be dumping their major burst damage and ultimates on my teammates. Every time, I'd pop out of stitches at like 25% health, and go to work with windfury. I'd be at nearly full health within 2 seconds and would just mow down one enemy hero after another. So retarded. I looked at Zuna's updated tier list, and he moved Thrall down to Tier 3. So dumb. No hero with that damage, sustainability, and utility is Tier 3. Period. He's hands down the best offtank in the game. Cmon man cc stop Thrall dead on the tracks. Thats the only problem i see in Thrall. Windufy, next muradin goes cc, boom windufry stopped, windufy again, rewind, cc, stopped again, if you have another hero by your side with good dps Thrall is dead. The problem with Thrall is that cc stuns and roots make him obsolete. Not only muradin can stop him, that was just an example, uther can hard counter him, brightwing can polymorph, stitches level 16 can stun. And which hero does CC not "stop dead on the tracks"? Stiches, Muradin, Uther. Thats only some, because they dont channel the abilities they have. This is the first moba ive played, maybe not as expert, but Stitches dosent "channel ?" the abilities neither does Muradin, i think Uther dosent channel either, new to the game gender correct me if im wrong. Always nice to learn.
Welcome to the genre! CC's isn't really always about interrupt channeling. In general, you don't want to be blowing your CC on tank heroes, such as the Stitches/Muradin. Uther is okay since if you can burst him down then the enemy team loses out on a really nice aoe stun and heals. The merits of all the assassins is that if left alone, they will kill you. If any assassin gets cc'd, be it Thrall, Valla, Zeratul, etc, they will most likely die or severely damaged that returning to the fight is a big risk. That's why as a tank, you want to force their assassins to deal with you, as well as constantly trying to CC them WHILE also creating space for your own assassins and supports to safely engage. Supports will either be healing or zoning with their spells, specialists doing their thing, and assassin's dpsing. Target priority is usually support or specialist/assasins/tanks. Not a hard fast rule, as map space/location can play a big part in how you can engage. In addition, playing around ultimates is also important. At level 20 malfurion, I can blink in and silence (not the best build but fun :D). Brightwing can disengage fights like nothing. Save CC's for channeling ults like Valla's strafe or Chen's split, and Lili's jugs. Once you play more, you'll get a good feel for what targets are priorities and when to save crucial spells.
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On January 27 2015 06:59 CJPD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2015 06:45 xDaunt wrote:On January 27 2015 06:40 CJPD wrote:On January 27 2015 05:55 xDaunt wrote:On January 27 2015 05:41 Eliezar wrote:
That's so dumb it isn't even funny and I don't even believe there is a clear tier 1 outside of Thrall and Stitches...(I could just be upset because I lost a 1v1 to a Thrall who was at 25% health because his healing was more than my dps...and I was at 100% health...) Haha, yeah, Thrall is hilarious. I played a game last night where the enemy Stitches would keep eating me at the beginning of teamfights (ie he beelined right for me). While I was rotting in his stomach, the rest of his team would be dumping their major burst damage and ultimates on my teammates. Every time, I'd pop out of stitches at like 25% health, and go to work with windfury. I'd be at nearly full health within 2 seconds and would just mow down one enemy hero after another. So retarded. I looked at Zuna's updated tier list, and he moved Thrall down to Tier 3. So dumb. No hero with that damage, sustainability, and utility is Tier 3. Period. He's hands down the best offtank in the game. Cmon man cc stop Thrall dead on the tracks. Thats the only problem i see in Thrall. Windufy, next muradin goes cc, boom windufry stopped, windufy again, rewind, cc, stopped again, if you have another hero by your side with good dps Thrall is dead. The problem with Thrall is that cc stuns and roots make him obsolete. Not only muradin can stop him, that was just an example, uther can hard counter him, brightwing can polymorph, stitches level 16 can stun. And which hero does CC not "stop dead on the tracks"? Stiches, Muradin, Uther. Thats only some, because they dont channel the abilities they have. This is the first moba ive played, maybe not as expert, but Stitches dosent "channel ?" the abilities neither does Muradin, i think Uther dosent channel either, new to the game gender correct me if im wrong. Always nice to learn.
Well, by that definition, Thrall isn't really stopped dead in his tracks by CC, either, because he doesn't channel anything (unless you count the 1 second cast time on sundering).
Look at Sushiko's post above mine. He explains it fairly well.
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On January 27 2015 07:15 sushiko wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2015 06:59 CJPD wrote:On January 27 2015 06:45 xDaunt wrote:On January 27 2015 06:40 CJPD wrote:On January 27 2015 05:55 xDaunt wrote:On January 27 2015 05:41 Eliezar wrote:
That's so dumb it isn't even funny and I don't even believe there is a clear tier 1 outside of Thrall and Stitches...(I could just be upset because I lost a 1v1 to a Thrall who was at 25% health because his healing was more than my dps...and I was at 100% health...) Haha, yeah, Thrall is hilarious. I played a game last night where the enemy Stitches would keep eating me at the beginning of teamfights (ie he beelined right for me). While I was rotting in his stomach, the rest of his team would be dumping their major burst damage and ultimates on my teammates. Every time, I'd pop out of stitches at like 25% health, and go to work with windfury. I'd be at nearly full health within 2 seconds and would just mow down one enemy hero after another. So retarded. I looked at Zuna's updated tier list, and he moved Thrall down to Tier 3. So dumb. No hero with that damage, sustainability, and utility is Tier 3. Period. He's hands down the best offtank in the game. Cmon man cc stop Thrall dead on the tracks. Thats the only problem i see in Thrall. Windufy, next muradin goes cc, boom windufry stopped, windufy again, rewind, cc, stopped again, if you have another hero by your side with good dps Thrall is dead. The problem with Thrall is that cc stuns and roots make him obsolete. Not only muradin can stop him, that was just an example, uther can hard counter him, brightwing can polymorph, stitches level 16 can stun. And which hero does CC not "stop dead on the tracks"? Stiches, Muradin, Uther. Thats only some, because they dont channel the abilities they have. This is the first moba ive played, maybe not as expert, but Stitches dosent "channel ?" the abilities neither does Muradin, i think Uther dosent channel either, new to the game gender correct me if im wrong. Always nice to learn. Welcome to the genre! CC's isn't really always about interrupt channeling. In general, you don't want to be blowing your CC on tank heroes, such as the Stitches/Muradin. Uther is okay since if you can burst him down then the enemy team loses out on a really nice aoe stun and heals. The merits of all the assassins is that if left alone, they will kill you. If any assassin gets cc'd, be it Thrall, Valla, Zeratul, etc, they will most likely die or severely damaged that returning to the fight is a big risk. That's why as a tank, you want to force their assassins to deal with you, as well as constantly trying to CC them WHILE also creating space for your own assassins and supports to safely engage. Supports will either be healing or zoning with their spells, specialists doing their thing, and assassin's dpsing. Target priority is usually support or specialist/assasins/tanks. Not a hard fast rule, as map space/location can play a big part in how you can engage. In addition, playing around ultimates is also important. At level 20 malfurion, I can blink in and silence (not the best build but fun :D). Brightwing can disengage fights like nothing. Save CC's for channeling ults like Valla's strafe or Chen's split, and Lili's jugs. Once you play more, you'll get a good feel for what targets are priorities and when to save crucial spells.
Thats not the problem or question but thanks for the advises.
I always try to save my cc to interrupt that kind of abilities on valla and others.
What i was saying is that Thrall (Valla if dosent keep is distance) feels pretty weak against a hard cc team made by Muradin, Uther and some others hard counters, especially Thrall because the most used build is the one that gives extra resilience.
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Why don't you just ward Thrall's jungle?
But honestly it sounds like the best way to deal with Thrall is to dedicate 2-3 heros to shutting him down every fight. That's cute.
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On January 27 2015 07:43 CJPD wrote:What i was saying is that Thrall (Valla if dosent keep is distance) feels pretty weak against a hard cc team made by Muradin, Uther and some others hard counters, especially Thrall because the most used build is the one that gives extra resilience.
You're thinking too one-dimensionally. So what if the enemy tries to focus its CC on Thrall? Do you think Thrall's team is just going to sit there and wait for Thrall to get raped? Of course not. They're going to be fighting, inflicting damage, and creating more immediate threats that have to be dealt with. Good Thrall players don't just charge into the frey will-nilly. They wait for the right opening.
Your error is in attempting to distinguish between the effects of CC on Thrall and other heroes. It's really all the same outside of channeling ultimate interruption. A given team has a finite amount of CC that it can apply during a fight, and it has to choose which enemy players will be neutralized. What makes Thrall so strong is that he forces the enemy team to neutralize him. If they don't, they are fucked. I cannot stress this enough. It's his ability to almost unilaterally roll enemy teams that makes him OP.
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On January 27 2015 07:43 CJPD wrote:
Thats not the problem or question but thanks for the advises.
I always try to save my cc to interrupt that kind of abilities on valla and others.
What i was saying is that Thrall (Valla if dosent keep is distance) feels pretty weak against a hard cc team made by Muradin, Uther and some others hard counters, especially Thrall because the most used build is the one that gives extra resilience.
I guess I went a roundabout way of saying that all assasin's will get "hard countered" by CC. As xDaunt mentioned, because Thrall can dish out so much damage, self heal, and repeat that your team is forced to concentrate CC on him rather than their other assassin or supports. Your answer to "which heroes don't get steamrolled by CC" made it seem like you didn't understand the basics of teamfighting.
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Yo so my daily wants me to play specialist heroes but I don't have any in my rotation because I only have the 5 slots so far. Lmao thanks Blizz.
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On January 27 2015 07:49 hariooo wrote:
Why don't you just ward Thrall's jungle?
I actually Laughed out Loud reading this.
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On January 27 2015 08:42 hariooo wrote:
Yo so my daily wants me to play specialist heroes but I don't have any in my rotation because I only have the 5 slots so far. Lmao thanks Blizz.
Auto-select and pray for luck or level your account some more. Based on your posting, I assume you've been playing a lot lately.
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I'm pretty sure I unlocked my 2nd slot in free rotation on either the first or second day I was in Alpha...
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I've played maybe 10 games over 3-4 days not really that much. I mean I can get over it, it's just a daily. It's just something annoying that highlights the more obnoxious part of the grind.
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On January 27 2015 06:45 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2015 06:40 CJPD wrote:On January 27 2015 05:55 xDaunt wrote:On January 27 2015 05:41 Eliezar wrote:
That's so dumb it isn't even funny and I don't even believe there is a clear tier 1 outside of Thrall and Stitches...(I could just be upset because I lost a 1v1 to a Thrall who was at 25% health because his healing was more than my dps...and I was at 100% health...) Haha, yeah, Thrall is hilarious. I played a game last night where the enemy Stitches would keep eating me at the beginning of teamfights (ie he beelined right for me). While I was rotting in his stomach, the rest of his team would be dumping their major burst damage and ultimates on my teammates. Every time, I'd pop out of stitches at like 25% health, and go to work with windfury. I'd be at nearly full health within 2 seconds and would just mow down one enemy hero after another. So retarded. I looked at Zuna's updated tier list, and he moved Thrall down to Tier 3. So dumb. No hero with that damage, sustainability, and utility is Tier 3. Period. He's hands down the best offtank in the game. Cmon man cc stop Thrall dead on the tracks. Thats the only problem i see in Thrall. Windufy, next muradin goes cc, boom windufry stopped, windufy again, rewind, cc, stopped again, if you have another hero by your side with good dps Thrall is dead. The problem with Thrall is that cc stuns and roots make him obsolete. Not only muradin can stop him, that was just an example, uther can hard counter him, brightwing can polymorph, stitches level 16 can stun. And which hero does CC not "stop dead on the tracks"?
Most other heroes. Thrall is extremely vulnerable to Cc because he has a low health pool, is melee and in his popular build relies extremely on connecting. Thrall when cc'd at the right time will miss out on gaining 40% health, 2.5s cd reduction and doing a whole lot of damage, often outright dying. When he isnt interrupted his combined damage and healing is insane, hence being the best creeper in the game, but in teamfights that's just not happening. Note that even slowing effects with kiting can just embarass him, valla often being the cause now.
Tier 3 is right for him i feel. The problem is that his strenghts dont align well with how the game is played atm i feel. The game is mostly laning early into teamfights later. Early on he is mediocre and solo mercing has a short window at most maps. Later he gains his strentgh, lvl 16 especially, but the game is all teamfights while he shines more in 1v1 fights. Also the popular heroes just counter him too well, brightwing, uther or lili can disable his windfury very easily and there is quite some burst to focus him down with ranged dpses being so popular.
Simply put without connecting he is too squishy.
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On January 27 2015 09:31 hariooo wrote:
I've played maybe 10 games over 3-4 days not really that much. I mean I can get over it, it's just a daily. It's just something annoying that highlights the more obnoxious part of the grind.
Except you can unlock the 7 slots in like 2 days of playing :\
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has anyone noticed how little people care about vision and awareness on the map. I keep getting people who say "we don't need watchtowers ever, no reason to even go there" and I'm just kinda dumbfounded.
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Arguing that a hero "dies when focused and cc'd" as a weakness is a horrible argument. Name me one hero that doesn't.
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EPT
