EPTOn a sidenote I wasn't saying that HOTS won't be succesfull(it will be), I just doubt the level of success due to the current payment model.
Heroes Large General Thread - Page 143
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
On a sidenote I wasn't saying that HOTS won't be succesfull(it will be), I just doubt the level of success due to the current payment model. | ||
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Deleted User 26513
2376 Posts
On October 20 2014 18:34 Klowney wrote: So what part of dota 2 isn't free to play? and there is someting wrong when the prices are so ridiculously expensive. The whole game isn't free to play. Such thing doesn't and can't exist. If for some reason all the players decide to play it for free, the game will stop existing. So if you are buying skins, you should know that you are paying for the gaming experience of RandomJoe that is playing the game "completely" for free. "Ridiculously expensive" is a subjective category. I think IPhone is ridiculously expensive, others think otherwise and are buying it as soon as its released. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10961 Posts
True free to play whiteout pay to win (more) doesn't exist, despite its existance. Why? Because some People like to spend money on skins.. Do you even read your argument before you post it? If no one would freely buy said Skins and stuff the game would likely not be supported after some time... But that doesn't change the fact that there are real free to play games. | ||
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Deleted User 26513
2376 Posts
On October 20 2014 20:37 Velr wrote: What i learnt today: True free to play whiteout pay to win (more) doesn't exist, despite its existance. Why? Because some People like to spend money on skins.. Do you even read your argument before you post it? If no one would freely buy said Skins and stuff the game would likely not be supported after some time... But that doesn't change the fact that there are real free to play games. Free to play and pay to win are completely different things. SC2 is not free to play and is not pay to win either. As I said "completely free to play" doesn't and can't exist. The whole idea of that model is that some are paying more than others and it balances out at the end. Maybe you should read the argument... Where did I say that dota is pay to win ? For some reason you think that f2p is the opposite of pay to win... And its not. Well at least you learnt something, indeed. | ||
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Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Dota 2 is completely free to play if you don't want to pay any money. It is to be said, the game itself offers all of it's content to you without you paying single penny to the company. Of course Valve makes money from the game with hats, compendiums, steam exposure etc.. but as an individual, it is possible for you to not paying any money and play the game with the whole content from the beginning. Money itself doesn't give you "any" advantage to you too. It is called free to play cause it is really free to play. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
You can't expect anyone to offer a game 'free to play', somebody has to pay for the expenses. True free to play doesnt exist. But honestly, I find HotS model extremely expensive. | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On October 20 2014 21:29 KeksX wrote: DotA2 is extremely fair when it comes to F2P models, however I don't think DotA2 could be sustainable on its own. Either players are investing a lot more into it than I think or the fact that Valve does a lot of stuff on the side is helping keeping the game alive. It's rather interesting that this is such a popular opinion when with a tiny amount of research one can find a whole wealth of data that suggests Dota 2 is profitable on it's own. I guess people just can't handle the fact that the model works. | ||
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
Either way lets not get too offtopic, HOTS doesn't really have Steam, they have the Battlenet client which is limited to Diablo, WoW, Starcraft and HS only(and 3/th of that are AAA games basically). So while they would probably make some money from people having the battlenet client and a large overflow from its franchises and vice verca it won't be as good as with Steam. What I would like to see is that the basic package of HOTS gets offered for free, for example in League you have/had the initial pack which contained quite a few champions. They don't have to adept the Dota 2 model but a compensation in between having to grind a lot and getting a fair amount of options early on would be good I feel. The problem occurs of course when you start adding more and more content and it becomes disproportionate but hopefully by then a fair amount of people will have already invested into HOTS. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
On October 20 2014 21:48 Numy wrote: It's rather interesting that this is such a popular opinion when with a tiny amount of research one can find a whole wealth of data that suggests Dota 2 is profitable on it's own. I guess people just can't handle the fact that the model works. If you look at the amount of money workshop creators like Anuxi earn (pretty sure she bought a house with her cosmetics earnings), I think it's safe to say Dota easily makes money for itself. Naturally Valve probably didn't anticipate this level of success, even with their experience in the TF2 hatconomy, so the idea that Dota is an advertisement for Steam is still totally valid. | ||
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Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
Just wondering, not implying anything. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On October 20 2014 21:48 Numy wrote: It's rather interesting that this is such a popular opinion when with a tiny amount of research one can find a whole wealth of data that suggests Dota 2 is profitable on it's own. I guess people just can't handle the fact that the model works. You are missing the point. It works for Valve. You can't just copy a business model from a game and then expect it to work the exact same way. There are so many variables left in the equation. Can you put your finger on the fact that this works? Do you have data to back that up? I do not, hence why I don't claim to tell the truth, just telling my thoughts. @ahswtini: Do you have actual data for that? Because if that is the case it's certainly impressive, that would create a whole economy in the game itself which is something many games are far away from. About your question: I think free to play can certainly exist for some people, but for that to happen you need those "whales" people always talk about who spend BIG money on a certain game, allowing the company to make it completely fair and f2p for others. I think we might actually have that in DotA2: A few people spending the big bucks on the game while others spend nothing, or very little. | ||
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BobMcJohnson
France2916 Posts
I had barely any games on Steam before playing Dota, and now rip wallet T.T OT, I got a key for HOTS a few weeks ago. I didnt really like it, everything felt way too gated and expensive and the game was quite boring. The games felt weirdly very slow and sluggish despite having very short animations, no turn rates and games being short. I dont really know why. Maybe the fact that ranges are very short, heroes move quite slowly and spells do no damage and are very cheap relative to the health/mana pools. Maybe I didnt play enough to really get the strategic depth of the game but it seemed quite shallow on that side too :/ I hope that it's because it's an alpha and that it is still going to improve, but given the state of the game/emerging "pro-scene" I kinda suspect that they named it alpha just to avoid the over-hype debacle that the Hearthstone beta was, with people on the brink of selling kidneys for beta keys. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Its works for Valve because of steam, but that is not responsible for any other company including Blizzard. They can't spend money not knowing how they will make it back because that will cost people jobs. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
On October 20 2014 22:14 KeksX wrote: @ahswtini: Do you have actual data for that? Because if that is the case it's certainly impressive, that would create a whole economy in the game itself which is something many games are far away from. The item trading scene is very developed, although Valve recently removed the main currency (treasure keys). Either way, there are traders who are making a profit through clever buying and selling. So now we’re in this strange world where we have people who are using the Steam workshop who are making $500,000 per year building items for other customers http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/8/3852144/gabe-newell-interview-steam-box-future-of-gaming Although I think it meant that $500k was the total amount Valve paid out to workshop artists. | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
I highly doubt that Blizzard could pull of something similar though, the amount of engineering power that must have gone into this is probably way above their capabilities. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
Not saying they shouldnt do it or that it is impossible but it is not without consequences or that easy. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10961 Posts
I doubt Blizzrad could get something halfway decent out in any halfway decent amount of time, at least it probably wouldn't be ready for Hots.... | ||
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