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All hail the new Yogg.
Upcoming Hearthstone Balance Changes - Page 3
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
All hail the new Yogg. | ||
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ViZe
United States1513 Posts
On the topic of loatheb: it's an interesting card and is fairly unique. It was one of the few specific examples of counterplay that existed in the game and it would be nice to see blizzard at least try to replicate it a bit. Unfortunately in practice it became just the best five drop in the game to further increase the resilience of decks like secret paladin and zoo to aoe's. The counter play to combo decks has always been very aggressive play or abuse of armor/ice block, which is unfortunately not available to certain classes. However I do think combo decks should have a place in the game as they lend balance to the control/Aggro paradigm. If modern combo decks still bother you keep in mind emperor is leaving standard which removes almost all Malygos and leeroy combo decks from the game entirely | ||
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mandelised
0 Posts
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WindWolf
Sweden11767 Posts
On October 04 2016 16:42 mandelised wrote: Question do i dust all these cards and then wait to get in packs ? and if i really miss them can just craft at no loss ? You get full dust refund for the changed cards so you can always re-craft them again at not real cost. I dusted all the changed cards (except for Yogg) to get some other missing epics. I can just re-craft them again at a later date if needed | ||
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Kenpark
Germany2350 Posts
Nothing new really, but nice to see some stats backing it up. So when you play Tuskarr on turn 2/3 and roll Totem Golem, you have a 69% chance to win the game. With that many shamans around and everybody running two Tuskarr, this was just very very frustrating to play against. I think Tuskarr is dead now, except for heavy totem decks with like Primal Infusion and stuff. Your regular midrange/face shaman will def cut it. @Dromar He was obv way better than Doom. I guess thats a given. You can clear one minion draw more, get secrets, sometimes even a board etc. He was too strong, but not too much rng imo. Missing like a turn four play is more rng so to speak than Yogg. And it's not like there is zero strategy involved. Forcing the enemy Yogg, before you play yours, deciding when to dump your spells to play him,. keeping fatigue in mind etc. I liked to play Yogg decks. Every spell you play, felt like you also build for sth bigger. Also the possibility for a comeback, even in the worst game state was sth that I liked. Playing like Tempo Mage vs CW and running out of steam is one of the most unfun things in hearthstone. You draw one card and play it, while he sits there with a full hand, taking one min per turn, choosing his many options. With Yogg you had that comeback mechanic, even if it is only a small chance. In the end though, its a good nerf because in mage and druid he was just too op. Generating spells + Yogg was just too good. | ||
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
Dont think Yogg change will be that big of a deal, it's a "halp save me pls yogg-senpai" card already and should in most cases still fire off a lot of spells before dying. Think it will still be played in druid as it's the only way for it to recover. It's even more RNG now. Time will tell. Execute and Charge were fantastic changes and much needed. Execute at one mana was blantantly overpowered for any sort of tempo deck and way too easy to fit into a turn without floating excess mana, one mana is a huge deal. Charge like Tuskarr Totemic was a design constraint and OTK decks are very much not in the spirit of Hearthstone so a good change, depending on future cards Charge could very well still be really strong. Rockbiter and Abusive nerfs are fine, their ability to make a low cost minion trade up or being a 1 mana 2, 3 or 6 damage spell was lingering on the boarder of being super strong and too good. In the meta of curvestone they are too strong. Actually suprised they nerfed Call of the Wild. Yes it's a frustraing card and auto include, but it's a card hunter sort of need and all classes have auto includes anyway.The inability to weave in a hero power is pretty big. | ||
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mandelised
0 Posts
On October 04 2016 16:44 WindWolf wrote: You get full dust refund for the changed cards so you can always re-craft them again at not real cost. I dusted all the changed cards (except for Yogg) to get some other missing epics. I can just re-craft them again at a later date if needed Dusted the lot as you say if they are still includes i can craft and have lost nothing | ||
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Dromar
United States2145 Posts
As a side note, cards I would like to see in the next expansion: 3 mana neutral 3/4 Battlecry: If you have 8 or more mana crystals, gain 6 life. 4 mana neutral 1/1 Charge. Dies at the end of the turn. Deathrattle: Deal 2 damage to all minions. | ||
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Dark_Chill
Canada3353 Posts
On October 05 2016 06:47 Dromar wrote: I think I really underestimated the effect the nerf would have on Shaman. I think it's still good, but weakening Tuskarr Totemic takes away a good amount of free wins, and it's super easy to replace. My initial thought was Argent Horserider, but that's for a more aggressive Shaman, which was also impacted by the nerf to Rockbiter combos. So overall, I think the nerfs were really well-placed. As a side note, cards I would like to see in the next expansion: 3 mana neutral 3/4 Battlecry: If you have 8 or more mana crystals, gain 6 life. 4 mana neutral 1/1 Charge. Dies at the end of the turn. Deathrattle: Deal 2 damage to all minions. Tuskar was probably a necessary nerf, was as stupid as Shredder before, though now it's not really an include. Rockbiter being in the base set hits pretty hard, and it means Shaman will have to get new really good cards each new expansion. The heal card actually seems pretty cool, and if you change it to 3 damage, would really help the classes who want to play more control but don't have the clears for it. | ||
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Hearken
United Kingdom0 Posts
Since the patch, I've seen more Yoggs than usual it seems, and every single one of them unfairly swung the game in my opponent's favour. One game in particular, the guy played him while ahead on board, health and cards, but still managed to end the turn massively ahead, somehow. I.e. casting draw spells and winning multiple 1/4s in a row. I'm sure he'll be played less in tournaments, but everyone still seems to be running him on ladder. I'm not sure the change goes far enough from what I've seen so far. | ||
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Tal
United Kingdom1014 Posts
On October 06 2016 17:20 Hearken wrote: After the patch, I immediately took Yogg out of all my decks. I think this may have been premature... Since the patch, I've seen more Yoggs than usual it seems, and every single one of them unfairly swung the game in my opponent's favour. One game in particular, the guy played him while ahead on board, health and cards, but still managed to end the turn massively ahead, somehow. I.e. casting draw spells and winning multiple 1/4s in a row. I'm sure he'll be played less in tournaments, but everyone still seems to be running him on ladder. I'm not sure the change goes far enough from what I've seen so far. That's what they said they wanted, right? Just to make him too unreliable for top players, not make him unplayable. | ||
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d00p
711 Posts
Any shaman nerf is fine by me in prisiple and good fucking riddance to tuskarr totemic. Execute nerf has actually hurt me quite a bit in wild but dragon warrior was the best standard deck so I guess it's understandable. Still, rock biter and execute nerfs seem a bit short-sighted? | ||
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Hearken
United Kingdom0 Posts
On October 06 2016 20:54 Tal wrote: That's what they said they wanted, right? Just to make him too unreliable for top players, not make him unplayable. I guess so, just seems like it's still such a solid card. I had presumed that the nerf would stop most people playing it, leaving it as a fun and silly option for folks at rank 20. Hadn't expected to still see it in 50% of decks at rank 10. | ||
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Kenpark
Germany2350 Posts
Nothing much has changed though, Zoo still running Abusive, Hunter Call of the Wild. Still it should help all tier 1 decks got a nerf, so meta should change at least a little. We will see I guess. But it is kinda obvious, that with the nerfs the next strongest decks got better. Rogue comes to mind. No idea about Yogg yet. Faced only 1 in like 20 games and he sucked. He should be better with having an own board now, since chances are higher, he doesnt get killed immediately. But then it is also risky you blow a lead. Personally I think he is gone from tier 1-2 decks. | ||
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Melliflue
United Kingdom1389 Posts
I am not saying that every class needs to have such a comeback card but for those classes that currently don't have a comeback card, Yogg is an attractive option. | ||
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Kenpark
Germany2350 Posts
On October 07 2016 03:18 Melliflue wrote: Regarding Yogg: Even after the nerf I expect Yogg will still be played because it gives the chance of a comeback and comeback cards are mostly terrible. What is druid supposed to use instead? Without Yogg, a druid is almost certainly dead as soon as they have lost board control. Some classes have options; Brawl and Twisting Nether and Equality have their flaws but at least they can help clear the board. I am not saying that every class needs to have such a comeback card but for those classes that currently don't have a comeback card, Yogg is an attractive option. Well always can play Deathwing. No for real, we have too see how good it is the next weeks. Yogg was also way more than a comeback card. More like a value card. Low on cards, not being able to clear opponent single threat ? Well just Yogg to refill hand, get some secrets going etc. Druid also never had a comeback card in this games history and were prominent anyways, just because of Innervate and Wild Growth. I just think its hillarious that two of Shamans strongest cards are nerfed and right now Sjow is playing Midrange Shaman at legend rank 5 with 27 shaman cards. I was questioning Maelstrom right from the beginning. What exactly was the thought process behind giving Shaman an empowered arcane explosion, when they already have another strong AOE ? That card shifted the Zoo mu in Shamans favor, which was keeping them in check before Kara hit. Kara was just a big failure and you really have to question the expertise on Blizzards end. | ||
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d00p
711 Posts
On October 07 2016 07:16 Kenpark wrote:Druid also never had a comeback card in this games history and were prominent anyways, just because of Innervate and Wild Growth. Combo (RIP) had something to do with that as well. A lot of times you were simply able to kill the opponent never mind the board. Like a zoo who had tapped a bit for instance. Whereas now you just die if Yogg doesn't save you. And he'll be doing that a lot less now. So druid might be a bit screwed. What I meant to say was: Combo decks don't need comeback cards. They have the combo. And druid had the best combo deck. | ||
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MrMike
United States0 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Melliflue
United Kingdom1389 Posts
On October 07 2016 07:16 Kenpark wrote: Well always can play Deathwing. No for real, we have too see how good it is the next weeks. Yogg was also way more than a comeback card. More like a value card. Low on cards, not being able to clear opponent single threat ? Well just Yogg to refill hand, get some secrets going etc. Druid also never had a comeback card in this games history and were prominent anyways, just because of Innervate and Wild Growth. I am not saying druid necessarily needs a comeback card to be good, but if you give them the option of playing one then I am not surprised that they include it. And as d00p said, druid used to have the combo so it wasn't so important to have a comeback card. You don't need a comeback card (or late-game value card) if you can kill them. | ||
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Mortal
2943 Posts
On October 07 2016 22:20 MrMike wrote: Shaman is still 100% overpowered in every way possible. Fucking asshole class. Everyone using it should go kill themselves. Brainless, aggro shit. User was temp banned for this post. This is the first time I've seen the hammer come down on the TL-HS site. I feel like I should have some kinda celebration to commemorate the occasion. | ||
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