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On April 07 2016 05:56 Pandahunterz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2016 05:52 NewSunshine wrote:On April 07 2016 05:48 Pandahunterz wrote:On April 07 2016 05:21 RevenantSC2 wrote:
So it looks like Cho'Gall is going to win the next vote. He's probably the new Warlock legendary, but do any of you have predictions for what his affect would be? battlecry: reduce your intellect by 20. thats it, nothing more. remember not every card needs to be useful, some can be just for "fun" -_____________________________________________- well i doubt it, but with what blizzard has shown this is actually a possibility Being upset that a set happens to have a bad card or 2 puts you in line for nothing but disappointment. its not the bad cards i'm disappointed in, its the mentality of creating cards for "fun" that will be played only on the first day after release, and never after again, with the sole purpose of hyping up the new expansion
I'm sorry that not every card in the set is made for Spikes, but that's just good design. Even Magic makes cards specifically for fun, this is nothing new. There are players who want different things from Hearthstone than you, it's just a fact. You're probably better off if you adjust your expectations a little bit.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
Huffer > Leokk > Misha no matter the language basically
As for the current discussion - Competitive cards can be fun to us and fun cards can be fun to others. As WotC lead designer states - "If you don't like a card it probably wasn't designed for you"
That said - Infested Tauren / Boogymonster / Shahrazad aren't fun to anyone.
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That emoji use though. Makes sense, always Huffer.
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On April 07 2016 06:01 Drazerk wrote:
That said - Infested Tauren / Boogymonster / Shahrazad aren't fun to anyone.
Eye of the Storm + Shahrazad/Enter the Dungeon. Go ahead, play an instant or sorcery, I dare you.
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On April 07 2016 05:21 RevenantSC2 wrote:
So it looks like Cho'Gall is going to win the next vote. He's probably the new Warlock legendary, but do any of you have predictions for what his affect would be?
After you play a spell, play a copy of that spell on a random target that spell could hit. [Warlock Card]
Something like that, I definitely think he will be a boon to spells in some powerful way.
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On April 07 2016 05:57 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2016 05:56 Pandahunterz wrote:On April 07 2016 05:52 NewSunshine wrote:On April 07 2016 05:48 Pandahunterz wrote:On April 07 2016 05:21 RevenantSC2 wrote:
So it looks like Cho'Gall is going to win the next vote. He's probably the new Warlock legendary, but do any of you have predictions for what his affect would be? battlecry: reduce your intellect by 20. thats it, nothing more. remember not every card needs to be useful, some can be just for "fun" -_____________________________________________- well i doubt it, but with what blizzard has shown this is actually a possibility Being upset that a set happens to have a bad card or 2 puts you in line for nothing but disappointment. its not the bad cards i'm disappointed in, its the mentality of creating cards for "fun" that will be played only on the first day after release, and never after again, with the sole purpose of hyping up the new expansion I'm sorry that not every card in the set is made for Spikes, but that's just good design. Even Magic makes cards specifically for fun, this is nothing new. There are players who want different things from Hearthstone than you, it's just a fact. You're probably better off if you adjust your expectations a little bit.
well i'm happy that not every card is made for spikes, would make the game pretty boring. there is a huge difference between fun and useless cards though and im starting to think you fail to see the difference. im pretty sure its safe the say the majority of the community does not like spending their gold or money on cards that are just made to be filler and are absolutely useless. Cards that are not competitieve, but will stay in play because they are actually fun and have some use are a whole other story. it might be you are that one guy that doesn't mind but its common sense to prefer a positive side (in any kind of manner, whatsoever) over complete uselessness. its hard to call any of the cards completely useless, but they got actually pretty close...
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On April 07 2016 06:16 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2016 06:01 Drazerk wrote:
That said - Infested Tauren / Boogymonster / Shahrazad aren't fun to anyone.
Eye of the Storm + Shahrazad/Enter the Dungeon. Go ahead, play an instant or sorcery, I dare you.
I'd rather deal with Chaos Orb shenanigans tbh. At least that required you to rip the card up every time you wanted to use it.
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On April 07 2016 06:01 Drazerk wrote:https://twitter.com/PlayHearthstone/status/717784748094042112Huffer > Leokk > Misha no matter the language basically As for the current discussion - Competitive cards can be fun to us and fun cards can be fun to others. As WotC lead designer states - "If you don't like a card it probably wasn't designed for you" That said - Infested Tauren / Boogymonster / Shahrazad aren't fun to anyone.
huffer 1st confirmed
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On April 07 2016 06:31 Pandahunterz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2016 06:01 Drazerk wrote:https://twitter.com/PlayHearthstone/status/717784748094042112Huffer > Leokk > Misha no matter the language basically As for the current discussion - Competitive cards can be fun to us and fun cards can be fun to others. As WotC lead designer states - "If you don't like a card it probably wasn't designed for you" That said - Infested Tauren / Boogymonster / Shahrazad aren't fun to anyone. huffer 1st=best confirmed *sarcastic face*
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On April 07 2016 06:32 Pandahunterz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2016 06:31 Pandahunterz wrote:On April 07 2016 06:01 Drazerk wrote:https://twitter.com/PlayHearthstone/status/717784748094042112Huffer > Leokk > Misha no matter the language basically As for the current discussion - Competitive cards can be fun to us and fun cards can be fun to others. As WotC lead designer states - "If you don't like a card it probably wasn't designed for you" That said - Infested Tauren / Boogymonster / Shahrazad aren't fun to anyone. huffer 1st=best confirmed *sarcastic face*
I think you screwed up and I'm quoting you before you have a chance to fix it 
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On April 07 2016 06:27 Pandahunterz wrote:
well i'm happy that not every card is made for spikes, would make the game pretty boring. there is a huge difference between fun and useless cards though and im starting to think you fail to see the difference. im pretty sure its safe the say the majority of the community does not like spending their gold or money on cards that are just made to be filler and are absolutely useless. Cards that are not competitieve, but will stay in play because they are actually fun and have some use are a whole other story. it might be you are that one guy that doesn't mind but its common sense to prefer a positive side (in any kind of manner, whatsoever) over complete uselessness. its hard to call any of the cards completely useless, but they got actually pretty close...
Sure, I'd prefer cards to have some use over none, but I fail to see how it helps getting upset over only 1 truly bad card(The Boogeymonster). Just about every card in Whispers is either competitive, or it has interesting mechanics, or just looks like fun to play, getting bent out of shape because 1 card happens to not fit any of them is a waste of energy to be honest. There are plenty of so-called interesting cards in previous sets that never saw a lick of play anyway, so how would I know the difference if that card was more boring than it actually is?
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On April 07 2016 06:30 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2016 06:16 NewSunshine wrote:On April 07 2016 06:01 Drazerk wrote:
That said - Infested Tauren / Boogymonster / Shahrazad aren't fun to anyone.
Eye of the Storm + Shahrazad/Enter the Dungeon. Go ahead, play an instant or sorcery, I dare you. I'd rather deal with Chaos Orb shenanigans tbh. At least that required you to rip the card up every time you wanted to use it.
Well obviously, I think you'd rather do anything than play endless subgames of Magic for shits and giggles. That's what makes it fun for me though.
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On April 07 2016 06:27 Pandahunterz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2016 05:57 NewSunshine wrote:On April 07 2016 05:56 Pandahunterz wrote:On April 07 2016 05:52 NewSunshine wrote:On April 07 2016 05:48 Pandahunterz wrote:On April 07 2016 05:21 RevenantSC2 wrote:
So it looks like Cho'Gall is going to win the next vote. He's probably the new Warlock legendary, but do any of you have predictions for what his affect would be? battlecry: reduce your intellect by 20. thats it, nothing more. remember not every card needs to be useful, some can be just for "fun" -_____________________________________________- well i doubt it, but with what blizzard has shown this is actually a possibility Being upset that a set happens to have a bad card or 2 puts you in line for nothing but disappointment. its not the bad cards i'm disappointed in, its the mentality of creating cards for "fun" that will be played only on the first day after release, and never after again, with the sole purpose of hyping up the new expansion I'm sorry that not every card in the set is made for Spikes, but that's just good design. Even Magic makes cards specifically for fun, this is nothing new. There are players who want different things from Hearthstone than you, it's just a fact. You're probably better off if you adjust your expectations a little bit. well i'm happy that not every card is made for spikes, would make the game pretty boring. there is a huge difference between fun and useless cards though and im starting to think you fail to see the difference. im pretty sure its safe the say the majority of the community does not like spending their gold or money on cards that are just made to be filler and are absolutely useless. Cards that are not competitieve, but will stay in play because they are actually fun and have some use are a whole other story. it might be you are that one guy that doesn't mind but its common sense to prefer a positive side (in any kind of manner, whatsoever) over complete uselessness. its hard to call any of the cards completely useless, but they got actually pretty close...
There is another part in what you are saying here that I think is interesting in the whole Spike/Timmy/Johnny debate.
The part that as per the business model of a CCG, a bad card is kind of a loss of money for the customer. If you buy a new pack of let's say magic, you are usually not interested in the common cards but you will look at the uncommon and rare and you will feel cheated and disappointed if they are mediocre/unplayable. The counter part is that you will get excited and very happy if you get the really cool one.
The same principle apply to hearthstone in a different way: You see a legendary in your pack and then it happens to be the Boogey Monster you feel the let down of it. and maybe the next pack you open a new legendary and this time it's Allazeal (whatever its name is) and the you are really high spike of adrenaline and you are so happy hyped about it you will play Shaman for the full next week.
Now this is interesting to me because this is actually based on the Gambling pattern. basically the fact that they are such potential downer will make the next up even stronger. In other words the fact that the differential between cards value is so big will make the opening of pack a more interesting, emotional experience and also a more addicting one.
If all cards were of same value, the opening of packs would be less addicting because you would know what the expected value of opening a pack is.
This is a reason beyond why random drops system (like let's say in Diablo or WoW) are creating way more addicting game play than fixed drop do.
I think there was good video on youtube about the subject (on Game Theory I think), you can pm if you want and I can find the link for you.
But long story short because of human psychology, having a small amount of really bad cards in expansion is good for the business model and will probably result in higher sales number at some point.
Welcome in the wonderful world of Marketing.
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On April 07 2016 06:41 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2016 06:30 Drazerk wrote:On April 07 2016 06:16 NewSunshine wrote:On April 07 2016 06:01 Drazerk wrote:
That said - Infested Tauren / Boogymonster / Shahrazad aren't fun to anyone.
Eye of the Storm + Shahrazad/Enter the Dungeon. Go ahead, play an instant or sorcery, I dare you. I'd rather deal with Chaos Orb shenanigans tbh. At least that required you to rip the card up every time you wanted to use it. Well obviously, I think you'd rather do anything than play endless subgames of Magic for shits and giggles. That's what makes it fun for me though.
It wouldn't be endless since they changed the rulings on Eye of the Storm so the copies created by it wouldn't proc it IIRC unless I'm forgetting an interaction since its been years now. It'd still be really fucking annoying to play 5 games of magic in 1 game of magic though.
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On April 07 2016 06:57 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2016 06:41 NewSunshine wrote:On April 07 2016 06:30 Drazerk wrote:On April 07 2016 06:16 NewSunshine wrote:On April 07 2016 06:01 Drazerk wrote:
That said - Infested Tauren / Boogymonster / Shahrazad aren't fun to anyone.
Eye of the Storm + Shahrazad/Enter the Dungeon. Go ahead, play an instant or sorcery, I dare you. I'd rather deal with Chaos Orb shenanigans tbh. At least that required you to rip the card up every time you wanted to use it. Well obviously, I think you'd rather do anything than play endless subgames of Magic for shits and giggles. That's what makes it fun for me though. It wouldn't be endless since they changed the rulings on Eye of the Storm so the copies created by it wouldn't proc it IIRC unless I'm forgetting an interaction since its been years now. It'd still be really fucking annoying to play 5 games of magic in 1 game of magic though.
Well no, it's not literally endless, but it will start to feel like it after the 4th or 5th go around
Also I don't think the Boogeymonster was made so people would put it in their decks, I think it has more to do with Arena + random effects that generate minions, like Discover effects or a Golden Monkey. You can't build a deck around it, but there are honestly much worse cards to get from the Golden Monkey. Sort of like how Fierce Monkey isn't a great constructed card, but it's great in Arena for a class that's been weak and inconsistent, and it's also nice to get one from a Webspinner from time to time. Sometimes if you can't see the point of a card, maybe you just haven't found it yet.
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On April 07 2016 06:58 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2016 06:57 Drazerk wrote:On April 07 2016 06:41 NewSunshine wrote:On April 07 2016 06:30 Drazerk wrote:On April 07 2016 06:16 NewSunshine wrote:On April 07 2016 06:01 Drazerk wrote:
That said - Infested Tauren / Boogymonster / Shahrazad aren't fun to anyone.
Eye of the Storm + Shahrazad/Enter the Dungeon. Go ahead, play an instant or sorcery, I dare you. I'd rather deal with Chaos Orb shenanigans tbh. At least that required you to rip the card up every time you wanted to use it. Well obviously, I think you'd rather do anything than play endless subgames of Magic for shits and giggles. That's what makes it fun for me though. It wouldn't be endless since they changed the rulings on Eye of the Storm so the copies created by it wouldn't proc it IIRC unless I'm forgetting an interaction since its been years now. It'd still be really fucking annoying to play 5 games of magic in 1 game of magic though. Well no, it's not literally endless, but it will start to feel like it after the 4th or 5th go around Also I don't think the Boogeymonster was made so people would put it in their decks, I think it has more to do with Arena + random effects that generate minions, like Discover effects or a Golden Monkey. You can't build a deck around it, but there are honestly much worse cards to get from the Golden Monkey. Sort of like how Fierce Monkey isn't a great constructed card, but it's great in Arena for a class that's been weak and inconsistent, and it's also nice to get one from a Webspinner from time to time.
Fierce Monkey isn't even bad in constructed tbh its perfectly playable and sees play in Reno decks. That said yeah it was mainly made for Arena and fills as a filler effect for random effects.
I dunno if I'd ever draft Boogeymonster though and I draft Hemet in Arena because it generally gets value. I do see your point about golden Monkey though
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Shahrazad or however you spell it is a fun card - one game out of two hundred. I don't think it's fair to put in there. I think a better example is... well, actually, I don't know the card's name, just that I have two or three in my collection and marvel at them every time I see them for how abysmal they are. The card's stats are:
2R
2/1
2R (or maybe just 1R?), tap, sacrifice: deal 2 damage to target creature or player.
That card is weak and uninspiring. It has nothing going for it. There is no circumstance under which you can say, "I was happy this card was created." Even in Limited formats, the card just leaves a bad taste in your mouth if you have to run it, no matter whether it balances the colors out better. This is very different from Shahrazad, which is a fun and interesting card that gets stale fast (also, it's actually wicked powerful, we should note). Shahrazad is best compared to, perhaps, Dreadsteed. Dreadsteed is a fascinating card, definitely incredibly cool, but can you imagine if it appeared every game? Once the Dreadsteed board gets going, it's impossible to clear without using Mass Dispel, and turns the game into an agonizing grindfest that you probably know the answer to and can't particularly get around.
And then there are the cards that are kinda flavorful, pretty weak, and not really inspiring. I'm talking Wilfred Fizzlebang, here. I really do think he just should have been more inspiring, I say, as I realize the awful pun I just made. His ability is kind of neat, but there's not a ton you can do with it in terms of winning or even having fun. I'd rather that this type of card just not be made, or at least be made somewhat stronger. There's plenty of room in Hearthstone for cards like Coldarra Drake, but very little for Wilfred Fizzlebangs.
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On April 07 2016 07:29 Acritter wrote:
This is very different from Shahrazad, which is a fun and interesting card that gets stale fast (also, it's actually wicked powerful, we should note).
Now you got me interested, Shahrazad has an amazing weird effect, did someone find a way to abuse it?
Kinda reminds me of "Last turn" from Yug-Oh... very, very broken.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
I guess I was being unfair to Shahrazad given it'd see "some" fun. The best example would be One with Nothing.
I feel Wilfred would have been fine as a 5-5 tbh at 4-4 though he was just too weak
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On April 07 2016 07:48 Hellonslaught wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2016 07:29 Acritter wrote:
This is very different from Shahrazad, which is a fun and interesting card that gets stale fast (also, it's actually wicked powerful, we should note). Now you got me interested, Shahrazad has an amazing weird effect, did someone find a way to abuse it? Kinda reminds me of "Last turn" from Yug-Oh... very, very broken.
Win g1 or get a life advantage somehow, start infinite Shahrazad recursion, allotted match time runs out and you win. Puts all the BannedTwitchEmote complaints with Elise Warrior to shame.
Also, One With Nothing had a cool effect that you could at least potentially use, even if nobody ever managed to actually use it. I'd say the best comparison for Monstrosity is all the incredibly bland cards that are just plain overcosted. Those are infuriatingly awful.
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EPT
