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On April 06 2016 20:27 Enjun wrote:This like most other uses of N'Zoth hinges desperately on the existence of a good taunt or similarly defensive card that has Deathrattle. In standard there will only be Infested Tauren, Abomination, Tirion (not for Warrior though) and Chillmaw. Without a relevant taunt you'll probably have a hard time arriving at the late turns in the first place as well as surviving the N'Zoth turn against face or boardcentric decks.
That's a pretty fair way of evaluating N'Zoth in a vacuum, and one I have seen echoed on a few pro player card reviews. In most cases this is true, but this evaluation doesn't take a look at classes themselves. Both control warrior and control priest (the likely candidates for a working N'Zoth deck as it currently stands IMO) probably won't require a taunt for N'Zoth to work because those decks fundamentally are build around outlasting opponents. Against aggro decks N'Zoth isn't necessarily the win condition, rather running your opponent out of steam, which is very possible right now.
One card it could be compared to is Ysera, a 9 mana card that doesn't have any defensive value the turn it is played. Ysera is unpopular in many decks for the same reasons you listed above, but both control warrior and priest have extensively used Ysera in the past. N'Zoth is also kind of comparable to an offensive alexstrazsa, in that it consumes an entire turn and doesn't develop any form of taunt, but like an offensive Alex, a N'Zoth turn could heavily threaten lethal next turn if your opponent cannot answer it.
The biggest reason a taunt is deemed necessary, IMO, is because of the existence of combo druid and oil rogue, decks that can blow you up from high HP if you don't clear their minions. A tauntless N'Zoth will certainly struggle against these types of decks, but many in the meta right now are being nerfed / removed from standard so who knows.
Obviously though, a good deathrattle taunt can only help the deck.
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On April 07 2016 00:26 Acritter wrote:
A ton of aggro's resources are leaving. Piloted Shredder is leaving, as are Snowchugger, Shielded Minibot, Mad Scientist, and Loatheb. This is going to make it way easier to defend against aggro, even without some of the really powerful tools of the past. I wonder about that.
Zoo Paladin/Warlock was already viable before naxx, and now face shaman is also an option. Without Zombie Chow, Belger, Deathlord and Healbot, it will be a lot harder to contest the board without an AOE spell, and almost impossible to stabilize afterwards.
Still waiting to see more defensive options, but so far, looks like standard will be an aggro fest and Reno oriented.
Since board clears will be more effective, rogue probably will see some play too.
Anyway, change is always good, i just don't think it will slow down the meta or anything; in fact, i believe it will stay as fast as it is now.
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On April 07 2016 01:44 Hellonslaught wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2016 00:26 Acritter wrote:
A ton of aggro's resources are leaving. Piloted Shredder is leaving, as are Snowchugger, Shielded Minibot, Mad Scientist, and Loatheb. This is going to make it way easier to defend against aggro, even without some of the really powerful tools of the past. I wonder about that. Zoo Paladin/Warlock was already viable before naxx, and now face shaman is also an option. Without Zombie Chow, Belger, Deathlord and Healbot, it will be a lot harder to contest the board without an AOE spell, and almost impossible to stabilize afterwards. Still waiting to see more defensive options, but so far, looks like standard will be an aggro fest and Reno oriented. Since board clears will be more effective, rogue probably will see some play too. Anyway, change is always good, i just don't think it will slow down the meta or anything; in fact, i believe it will stay as fast as it is now.
Really? From most of the pros, all I hear is how the game will slow down.
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All this talk about N'Zoth Warrior makes me think the Tentacle might be worth using as a one-off after all. After the big N'Zoth play you have a build in activator to proc Blood Warriors and you can use it earlier to fight aggro or activate in the mid-game (not as reliable as WW ofc).
But I still think reviving a bunch of Tentacles with N'Zoth is an easy way to shoot yourself in the foot so it's risky.
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On April 07 2016 01:53 Volband wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2016 01:44 Hellonslaught wrote:On April 07 2016 00:26 Acritter wrote:
A ton of aggro's resources are leaving. Piloted Shredder is leaving, as are Snowchugger, Shielded Minibot, Mad Scientist, and Loatheb. This is going to make it way easier to defend against aggro, even without some of the really powerful tools of the past. I wonder about that. Zoo Paladin/Warlock was already viable before naxx, and now face shaman is also an option. Without Zombie Chow, Belger, Deathlord and Healbot, it will be a lot harder to contest the board without an AOE spell, and almost impossible to stabilize afterwards. Still waiting to see more defensive options, but so far, looks like standard will be an aggro fest and Reno oriented. Since board clears will be more effective, rogue probably will see some play too. Anyway, change is always good, i just don't think it will slow down the meta or anything; in fact, i believe it will stay as fast as it is now. Really? From most of the pros, all I hear is how the game will slow down.
Pros said that about TGT and the Joust mechanic. Look how that meta turned out
Plus with everyone saying the meta will slow down gives even more reason to build an aggro deck since it punishes slow decks. Its like the stars are aligning for aggro
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On April 07 2016 02:07 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2016 01:53 Volband wrote:On April 07 2016 01:44 Hellonslaught wrote:On April 07 2016 00:26 Acritter wrote:
A ton of aggro's resources are leaving. Piloted Shredder is leaving, as are Snowchugger, Shielded Minibot, Mad Scientist, and Loatheb. This is going to make it way easier to defend against aggro, even without some of the really powerful tools of the past. I wonder about that. Zoo Paladin/Warlock was already viable before naxx, and now face shaman is also an option. Without Zombie Chow, Belger, Deathlord and Healbot, it will be a lot harder to contest the board without an AOE spell, and almost impossible to stabilize afterwards. Still waiting to see more defensive options, but so far, looks like standard will be an aggro fest and Reno oriented. Since board clears will be more effective, rogue probably will see some play too. Anyway, change is always good, i just don't think it will slow down the meta or anything; in fact, i believe it will stay as fast as it is now. Really? From most of the pros, all I hear is how the game will slow down. Pros said that about TGT and the Joust mechanic. Look how that meta turned out Plus with everyone saying the meta will slow down gives even more reason to build an aggro deck since it punishes slow decks. Its like the stars are aligning for aggro
best way to beat the new 10 cost legendaries is to never let it get to turn 10 (skillhunter and shaman agrees)
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Things like the absence of Piloted Shredder won't hurt agro a bit. It only true hurts tempo decks.
Shredder will be replaced by Argus(which was meta before naxx), Shield mini bot by Dire Wolf Alpha (or similar) and so on.
For aggro decks, the trade off of not facing Belger/Healbot later is better then having a bit weaker early curve or have to contest the board against a T1 Zombie chow.
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On April 07 2016 02:07 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2016 01:53 Volband wrote:On April 07 2016 01:44 Hellonslaught wrote:On April 07 2016 00:26 Acritter wrote:
A ton of aggro's resources are leaving. Piloted Shredder is leaving, as are Snowchugger, Shielded Minibot, Mad Scientist, and Loatheb. This is going to make it way easier to defend against aggro, even without some of the really powerful tools of the past. I wonder about that. Zoo Paladin/Warlock was already viable before naxx, and now face shaman is also an option. Without Zombie Chow, Belger, Deathlord and Healbot, it will be a lot harder to contest the board without an AOE spell, and almost impossible to stabilize afterwards. Still waiting to see more defensive options, but so far, looks like standard will be an aggro fest and Reno oriented. Since board clears will be more effective, rogue probably will see some play too. Anyway, change is always good, i just don't think it will slow down the meta or anything; in fact, i believe it will stay as fast as it is now. Really? From most of the pros, all I hear is how the game will slow down. Pros said that about TGT and the Joust mechanic. Look how that meta turned out Plus with everyone saying the meta will slow down gives even more reason to build an aggro deck since it punishes slow decks. Its like the stars are aligning for aggro
Yeah, but that's necessary aggro for you. You don't want everyone passing until turn 6, then keep dropping these huge ass legendaries one by one. I think the golden staple for good aggro should be mid-range Hunter. You need to actually think there, unlike with face-hunter or scret pally, where you can just set up a bot to play it almost as efficently as yourself.
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On April 07 2016 01:44 Hellonslaught wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2016 00:26 Acritter wrote:
A ton of aggro's resources are leaving. Piloted Shredder is leaving, as are Snowchugger, Shielded Minibot, Mad Scientist, and Loatheb. This is going to make it way easier to defend against aggro, even without some of the really powerful tools of the past. I wonder about that. Zoo Paladin/Warlock was already viable before naxx, and now face shaman is also an option. Without Zombie Chow, Belger, Deathlord and Healbot, it will be a lot harder to contest the board without an AOE spell, and almost impossible to stabilize afterwards. Still waiting to see more defensive options, but so far, looks like standard will be an aggro fest and Reno oriented. Since board clears will be more effective, rogue probably will see some play too. Anyway, change is always good, i just don't think it will slow down the meta or anything; in fact, i believe it will stay as fast as it is now.
I seem to remember Paladin being an unplayable class before Naxx. And after Naxx. And after GvG. And after BRM. It had a pretty dark spell for quite a while, there.
Zoo is a big deal, it's true, but with the loss of all of its sticky minions, it becomes incredibly vulnerable to AoE. Remember the good old days of Auchenai->Circle->opponent concedes? Those could be coming back. I really don't think we can emphasize strongly enough how critical it is that Piloted Shredder, Nerubian Egg, and Haunted Creeper are going away, especially with all the stupidly good removal that Control Warrior has only recently gained access to. Losing Death's Bite hurts a real damn lot, but I think aggro is going to be on the back foot for a while.
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No midrange paladin was pretty good after GvG? BRM killed it because it could never beat patron the most popular deck of the meta, and then when that got nerfed we had TGT which released challenger and why play a "fair" deck when you can play the most broken card in the game?
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http://imgur.com/uKP6532
New Hunter cards:
8 Mana
Epic Spell
Summon all 3 of your animal companions
Exact translation to be confirmed.
Edit: translation seems to be confirmed as the text above.
Seems like the good late game finisher that was needing for a slower mid-range hunters to emerge. it does 5-9 burst damage (depending on the size of the pre existing board) and is also pretty versatile: consolidating an existing board or repopulating after an AoE clear. It even works as a decent catch back mechanism if you have lost the board.
Also produce 3 beast at once which can be difficult to clear to prevent beast synergy cards to activate.
really nice card, really happy to see it.
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On April 07 2016 02:49 itchiko wrote:http://imgur.com/uKP6532New Hunter cards: 8 Mana Epic Spell Summon all 3 of your animal companions Exact translation to be confirmed.
Wow. So sad Gahzrilla is leaving standard... he could probably be included in the new control hunter.
Oh my god, I just typed control hunter! Is this going to be the expansion when the dream is not just alive until release day?
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On April 07 2016 02:49 itchiko wrote:http://imgur.com/uKP6532New Hunter cards: 8 Mana Epic Spell Summon all 3 of your animal companions Exact translation to be confirmed. Edit: translation seems to be confirmed as the text above. Seems like the good late game finisher that was needing for a slower mid-range hunters to emerge. it does 5-9 burst damage (depending on the size of the pre existing board) and is also pretty versatile: consolidating an existing board or repopulating after an AoE clear. It even works as a decent catch back mechanism if you have lost the board. Also produce 3 beast at once which can be difficult to clear to prevent beast synergy cards to activate. really nice card, really happy to see it.
The card's nice, but... couldn't they have done better with the artwork? The style doesn't resemble that of the originals at all. The originals were all grim and tryhardy, but this is silly and cartoonish. That's kinda jarring.
Or wait, maybe that's a China thing? I know there were difficulties with blood in other Blizzard games before this.
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On April 07 2016 02:57 Acritter wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2016 02:49 itchiko wrote:http://imgur.com/uKP6532New Hunter cards: 8 Mana Epic Spell Summon all 3 of your animal companions Exact translation to be confirmed. Edit: translation seems to be confirmed as the text above. Seems like the good late game finisher that was needing for a slower mid-range hunters to emerge. it does 5-9 burst damage (depending on the size of the pre existing board) and is also pretty versatile: consolidating an existing board or repopulating after an AoE clear. It even works as a decent catch back mechanism if you have lost the board. Also produce 3 beast at once which can be difficult to clear to prevent beast synergy cards to activate. really nice card, really happy to see it. The card's nice, but... couldn't they have done better with the artwork? The style doesn't resemble that of the originals at all. The originals were all grim and tryhardy, but this is silly and cartoonish. That's kinda jarring. Or wait, maybe that's a China thing? I know there were difficulties with blood in other Blizzard games before this.
I sure hope so. Some of the artwork we've seen has been fantastic. This is cringey. Jarring is a good way to put it.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
![[image loading]](http://media-hearth.cursecdn.com/attachments/29/636/4f2b9622.png)
Translated version
Also my prediction was 1 mana off lol
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On April 07 2016 02:36 Acritter wrote:
I seem to remember Paladin being an unplayable class before Naxx. And after Naxx. And after GvG. And after BRM. It had a pretty dark spell for quite a while, there.
Control and mid range paladin yes. Zoo/divine shield pally was viable thanks to Divine Favor.
Zoo paladin was inferior to zoo lock due Divine Favor inconsistency , but now with new class stuff and Mr Finley, its probably as fine.
On April 07 2016 02:36 Acritter wrote:
Zoo is a big deal, it's true, but with the loss of all of its sticky minions, it becomes incredibly vulnerable to AoE. Remember the good old days of Auchenai->Circle->opponent concedes? Those could be coming back. I really don't think we can emphasize strongly enough how critical it is that Piloted Shredder, Nerubian Egg, and Haunted Creeper are going away, especially with all the stupidly good removal that Control Warrior has only recently gained access to. Losing Death's Bite hurts a real damn lot, but I think aggro is going to be on the back foot for a while.
I completely agree with you here.
I just want you to remember this: If the Priest does't draw Auchenai->Circle or Pyromancer shenanigans till T4, he might concede instead as well vs agro.
Lots of those games will be solely decided whenever the control deck draws or not AOE in time.
Now that i think about it, this condition makes the games FASTER and not slower. (and also boring)
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After the Leokk buff, Call of the Wild is 12/10 worth of stats spread over 3 creatures (+ 5 face damage from Huffer). For 8 mana that is not that bad.
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On April 07 2016 03:03 Drazerk wrote:Translated version Also my prediction was 1 mana off lol
5 immediate damage, 3 beasts, taunt, hmm
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At least 5 dmg charge for 8 mana. Great value to say the least. I like the flavor as well.
That being said, its a good finisher card but probably won't be played . Not much synergy with other Hunters cards.
I think Ragnaros is better overall, but i won't be surprised if someone prove me wrong here.
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I think it will end up being an insane arena card though. It's an epic and a spell so it will not be that common but I think it will be insane there
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EPT
