EPTUpcoming Balance Change to Warsong Commander - Page 4
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Nisticism
41 Posts
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Volband
Hungary6034 Posts
On October 14 2015 06:48 Nisticism wrote: Happy to see it go. Secret paladin is much much much much much easier to build decks around. Honestly, I don't struggle with doctor 6 nearly as much as the unstoppable 1-2 turn lethals that Patron Warrior dished out every single game. Hah, how could I forget. I actually like to sit down and think about what cards to tech in vs the current strongest deck, so I'M not worried about secret pally. Yeah, it's a very strong deck, but at least I have a saying in how the matches will go, and not just be depressed by turn 2. | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On October 14 2015 06:30 Fi0na wrote: Keep in mind that taking away the combo-deck that combo'ed so strong it denied almost all defensive decks will allow for decks with taunt to return. No longer is the Sludge Belcher just a liability that gives an extra Patron  Patron was actually one of the reasons WHY there was so much mid-range and aggro on the ladder, you had to kill your opponent by applying super pressure before the unstoppable combo hits. Now I can finally go back to playing control Priest And all the other decks I shelved because of too much Patron.I'll be honest I actually forgot Belcher can now be played again which is pretty funny. But I do think that its just going to increase the win rates of druids and the other 3 decks which was already being debated as maybe edging out over Patron (Okay 1 dude each power rank) and thats just going to replace patron as "the deck" to counter / build the meta around. That said Tempo mage is sure gonna be fun to play now without patron existing although I feel kinda bad for Dragon priest since there is less reason to run Chillmaw now | ||
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Mortal
2943 Posts
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Akaann
Switzerland82 Posts
And I dont even want to think about the amount of Secret Pallys I gonna face now. I fucking hated this Deck from Day 1... | ||
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NotSorry
United States6722 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On October 14 2015 06:48 Nisticism wrote: Happy to see it go. Secret paladin is much much much much much easier to build decks around. Honestly, I don't struggle with doctor 6 nearly as much as the unstoppable 1-2 turn lethals that Patron Warrior dished out every single game. Secret Paladin isn't even that bad, in my last 20 games I think I've played at least 15 vs the same casino Mage that wins the game by turn 3 if they have good draws. | ||
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
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AugustoVS
Brazil0 Posts
My question is what happens now? We all know secrets pally will take over the ladder and, according to team Liquid's rankings, the only good counter to it (besides Patron) is Freeze Mage, which I doubt many people will use, and it is favored against Druids, meaning that deck also loses its position at the top. In this case, what will people play to beat it? Handlock and Control Warrior are my bets and that also shuffles the positions in the power ranks quite a lot, to a point where I'm not really sure how it will stabilize. I would love to hear you guys and the pro's opinions on this. Do you think I am right about the moments right after the nerf? And what do you think will happen in the long term? | ||
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The_Masked_Shrimp
425 Posts
The nerf is very encouraging because it shows that blizzard is working against non-interactive decks; may it be one at a time and very slowly, it's still happening. I'll always think a better nerf to patron and aggro or combo in general would be to introduce the block or instant spell mechanism of real card games. | ||
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prodigalsunset
Australia0 Posts
On October 14 2015 08:39 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote: The best part about that nerf is not that patron warrior is dead-ish It's reading the post of obviously butthurt pro-patron players in that thread. The nerf is very encouraging because it shows that blizzard is working against non-interactive decks; may it be one at a time and very slowly, it's still happening. I'll always think a better nerf to patron and aggro or combo in general would be to introduce the block or instant spell mechanism of real card games. Agreed. Perhaps a minion like this would be an effective way to stop the un-interactivity of the Charge mechanism - a creature with permanent effect while in play, like Mana Wraith. The language on the card can undoubtedly be improved, but at least you get the idea: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/SDcP8Vr.png) | ||
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The_Masked_Shrimp
425 Posts
If you could fish in the opponents deck and remove all copes of a chosen card (or of a card you removed on board) this might also help change the interations; make people run more 1 of and increase deck diversity with more than 1 win condition. Also permanent spells would help greatly against the over aggressive/comboish meta. Take your yogg-saron example, if it's a permanent spell instead of a minion, it would only be countered by other spells; opponent could not just silence it or remove it with minions. This would force the opponent to build his deck with 1-2 counterspells and thus prevent full minions deck like mech mage (or druid) to just do what they like no matter what, playing 1 minion a turn no matter what; it would break or slow down the perfect curve you see in most top decks now, and having holes in the curve is not that bad for the game as we could see in beta and pre expansions. They could also fix combo druid by having savage roar read "Give +2 attack to your character and up to 3 friendly minions"; which would keep the 14 damage combo and prevent 20+ damage bullshit. | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On October 14 2015 08:39 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote: The best part about that nerf is not that patron warrior is dead-ish It's reading the post of obviously butthurt pro-patron players in that thread. The nerf is very encouraging because it shows that blizzard is working against non-interactive decks; may it be one at a time and very slowly, it's still happening. I'll always think a better nerf to patron and aggro or combo in general would be to introduce the block or instant spell mechanism of real card games. I like my afking during the enemy turn  Sadly I doubt non-interactive decks are going anywhere we still have freeze mage and while its a little dead rogue is still a class (Barely) with the capabilities for miracles not to mention Zeus Shaman will eventually become viable. Personally I'd rather open secrets up to more classes and build stuff around that rather than clogging up the screen with options whenever your opponent uses a card. Something like a 3 mana spell reflect secret for warrior "If a targeted damaging spell is used towards your hero reflect it to the enemy hero". Obviously we'd have to nerf Secretkeeper but i'm sure it'll be fine. On a unrelated note. Given Handlocks lose their good patron matchup will they even still exist anymore given control warrior is on the decline and control priest is kinda rare right now | ||
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The_Masked_Shrimp
425 Posts
Or maybe it's all gonna be perfectly balanced like in a nerdy tale and patron was the big ugly vilain all along. | ||
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Mortal
2943 Posts
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The_Masked_Shrimp
425 Posts
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Draconicfire
Canada2562 Posts
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Dark_Chill
Canada3353 Posts
What I'm saying is that Patron has gotten a lot more manageable over time and while it is true that it was the "deck to beat", it was like that to a greater extent before. The nerf would have been fine a few months ago, but there's absolutely no point in it now, And fuck you blizzard. I don't even play Patron, or warrior at all, but if you're going to change Warsong at least change it to something good. Make it a 3/3. Change the battlecry to "damaged minions with under 3 attack gain charge" or whatever. But don't try and fool people into thinking you're changing it when instead you're smashing it into the ground with Magni's fucking hammer. | ||
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BlacKcuD
Germany107 Posts
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StarMoon
Canada682 Posts
On October 14 2015 09:28 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote: No i am saying they will go down if druids go down a bit as it used to be like their best matchup; which might not be true anymore because darnassus aspirant kind of ruins mirror entity, but still. As a midrange druid player (since I started hearthstone), my mage matchups have gotten WAY better with aspirant and I found I actually struggle more vs hunter then before in TGT. I still don't like seeing tempo/mechmage but it feels winnable now, like maybe 40-45/60? On the other hand face hunter used to be a free win for me and midrange wasn't bad, now midrange still seems fairly reasonable but I might have lost every game vs facehunter (I think this is due to having a more aggressive list myself with less taunts). The control matchups (handlock, warrior) feel way better, and I agree with the sentiment that druid beats control warrior. Basically, if druids want to beat face decks (especially zoo and facehunter) they are going to have to move away from double drake, double combo lists into more defensive lists with chow and more taunts then DotC. | ||
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