• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:25
CEST 22:25
KST 05:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall12HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed4Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll2Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension1Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7
StarCraft 2
General
Who will win EWC 2025? The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) WardiTV Mondays Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome
Brood War
General
Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone [Guide] MyStarcraft
Tourneys
CSL Xiamen International Invitational [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China [Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2025 ACS Season 2 Qualifier
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 731 users

Upcoming Balance Change to Warsong Commander - Page 9

Forum Index > Hearthstone General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 7 8 9 All
Orcasgt24
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada3238 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-19 06:20:33
October 19 2015 06:20 GMT
#161
Warsong Commander is so dead they should find a new Rank 12 minion to use next season
In Hearthstone we pray to RNGesus. When Yogg-Saron hits the field, RNGod gets to work
Moriquenti
Profile Joined June 2014
Greece0 Posts
October 19 2015 14:45 GMT
#162
i will only complain about the fact that patron kept in check many pre BRM hated decks and now they simply emerge out of nowhere .. freeze mage , zoo lock , face hunter , mid range pally ... all those annoying decks that BRM tried to save us from are now back in play . The ladder is absolute chaos right now ... I'm going up / down rank 7 to rank 5 like an elevator in a hotel . in my humble opinion this is one of the worst HS months ever no meta pulse what so ever .
Sk'shgn eqnizz hoq
RogerChillingworth
Profile Joined March 2010
2842 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-19 23:27:40
October 19 2015 23:26 GMT
#163
On October 18 2015 05:12 Iknowwhy wrote:
nerf a complex and fun to play deck into oblivion.


Yeah, because being fun to play or complex matters when compared with being able to OTK your opponent through taunts who's at 40+ life.

If you want to blame a card, blame Thaurissan. What felt like was going to be a great card for control decks with big hands ended up benefiting combo decks a lot more. Which only means a harsher, faster OTK. Force/savage/savage ring any bells?
14 damage of charge at turn 7 with no board ring any bells? Not sure if you could die at 50 life vs patron sound familiar?

Fuck that deck. Druid's next.
aka wilted_kale
Drazerk
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom31255 Posts
October 19 2015 23:47 GMT
#164
On October 20 2015 08:26 RogerChillingworth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2015 05:12 Iknowwhy wrote:
nerf a complex and fun to play deck into oblivion.


Yeah, because being fun to play or complex matters when compared with being able to OTK your opponent through taunts who's at 40+ life.

If you want to blame a card, blame Thaurissan. What felt like was going to be a great card for control decks with big hands ended up benefiting combo decks a lot more. Which only means a harsher, faster OTK. Force/savage/savage ring any bells?
14 damage of charge at turn 7 with no board ring any bells? Not sure if you could die at 50 life vs patron sound familiar?

Fuck that deck. Druid's next.

Woah Woah Woah

Freeze mage is next.
ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3366 Posts
October 20 2015 18:25 GMT
#165
Change is live.
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
Slydie
Profile Joined August 2013
1913 Posts
October 20 2015 18:57 GMT
#166
On October 20 2015 08:26 RogerChillingworth wrote:
Show nested quote +


Yeah, because being fun to play or complex matters when compared with being able to OTK your opponent through taunts who's at 40+ life.

If you want to blame a card, blame Thaurissan. What felt like was going to be a great card for control decks with big hands ended up benefiting combo decks a lot more. Which only means a harsher, faster OTK. Force/savage/savage ring any bells?
14 damage of charge at turn 7 with no board ring any bells? Not sure if you could die at 50 life vs patron sound familiar?

Fuck that deck. Druid's next.

Woah Woah Woah

Freeze mage is next.


Freeze mage??
-It has almost no board
-It has an almost 0% matchup vs Control Warrior with Justicar Trueheart
-It is countered very well by any deck with Kezan Mystic and Loatheb.
-Its combos does not go nuts with a board (like druid) or punish the enemy's board (like patron.)
-A simple Antique Healbot saved for after Alexstrasza can screw a freeze mage.
-Bad draws can screw a freeze mage.
-It was already targetted by the biggest nerf in HS history: Frost nova was 2, cone of cold was 3, blizzzard was 5 and (for a while longer) pyroblast was 8.
Buff the siegetank
The_Masked_Shrimp
Profile Joined February 2012
425 Posts
October 21 2015 02:13 GMT
#167
And of course all the pro scene is going to say the best deck is balanced. They won't discredit their wins by saying they are using something OP or unbalanced, that would just be shooting themselves in the foot. A lot of people in this thread surprised because they kept hearing in articles that patron is fine and complex/high skillcap; they heard it so much they ended up believing in it.
litlnoobs
Profile Joined January 2013
United States8 Posts
October 21 2015 09:01 GMT
#168
Yeah, the sentiment that patron is a "skill deck" is merely just the tournament players sucking each other off.

"oh buddy, you're so good"
"no buddy, you're so good"
"ah man, look how good you are"
"nah man, look how good you are"
Alej
Profile Joined May 2014
0 Posts
October 21 2015 09:06 GMT
#169
anyone denying that patron warrior (or freeze mage, or miracle rogue) are hard to play decks, has never tried them.
litlnoobs
Profile Joined January 2013
United States8 Posts
October 21 2015 09:40 GMT
#170
oh man, look how hard you are. How hard are you?
so hard. how hard are you? so hard, bro
this deck is so hard
hard enough for you?
yeah man, hard enough for you?
damn hard. oh man
Drazerk
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom31255 Posts
October 21 2015 10:16 GMT
#171
On October 21 2015 03:57 Slydie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2015 08:26 RogerChillingworth wrote:
Show nested quote +


Yeah, because being fun to play or complex matters when compared with being able to OTK your opponent through taunts who's at 40+ life.

If you want to blame a card, blame Thaurissan. What felt like was going to be a great card for control decks with big hands ended up benefiting combo decks a lot more. Which only means a harsher, faster OTK. Force/savage/savage ring any bells?
14 damage of charge at turn 7 with no board ring any bells? Not sure if you could die at 50 life vs patron sound familiar?

Fuck that deck. Druid's next.

Woah Woah Woah

Freeze mage is next.


Freeze mage??
-It has almost no board
-It has an almost 0% matchup vs Control Warrior with Justicar Trueheart
-It is countered very well by any deck with Kezan Mystic and Loatheb.
-Its combos does not go nuts with a board (like druid) or punish the enemy's board (like patron.)
-A simple Antique Healbot saved for after Alexstrasza can screw a freeze mage.
-Bad draws can screw a freeze mage.
-It was already targetted by the biggest nerf in HS history: Frost nova was 2, cone of cold was 3, blizzzard was 5 and (for a while longer) pyroblast was 8.


Exactly

- has almost no board interaction
- matches play themselves with no actual input for either player in some match ups
- Its combos can go overboard depending on the version you run
- Its too heavily draw dependent when you face a freeze mage there isn't any interaction other than "Does the freeze mage draw what they need"
- It was targetted for the biggest nerf because it was the most boring deck to go against at the time and no one enjoyed playing verses one. That hasn't changed in nearly 2 years
Dark_Chill
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada3353 Posts
October 21 2015 14:29 GMT
#172
I do think it's pretty sad to see stuff like Patron go, and if secret pali (and freeze mage) ended up going that'd be really sad. I don't think a card game can be good without fringe decks, or the really weird/janky decks. It's pretty hard for blizzard because of their slow card release cycle, but if there were more cards like Wailing soul to get rid of freeze effects, or more secret interactions, I think those decks could be managed.

Very few cards should be up for nerf unless really, really broken. It's wrong to say that Warsong hurt future design space, because the cards that blizzard might be making aren't out and wouldn't be out for a while, and, most importantly, Blizzard aren't as good as the actual top players of the game who are much better testers of what's too broken. The real reason is that Patron was keeping several decks down. But that's to be expected, as that's what the top deck does. Secret pali and Driud are now the ones keeping several decks down now. Whatever decks might come up now that Patron is gone will also shape the meta. No matter what, most decks are going to be bad because there will be some which are just better. It reminds me a lot of League of Legends, where Riot would nerf certain champions and then other champions would come back into the meta because they're no longer being held down and they would in turn keep other champions down.

I find that when a solution can be reached by nerfing a card, the same solution can probably be reached by introducing more hate cards or introducing cards which interact more with the problems of a deck. Chillmaw didn't work out as well as Blizzard had hoped, but it was a good idea. Maybe more cards that went against charge could have worked, or more silence cards. If you have a problem with 1-turn kills, maybe make a card that prevents attacks for a full round. If secret pali is a huge problem, what if there were more cards like Kezan and flare? If combo druid is a problem, maybe more cards like Loatheb.
CUTE MAKES RIGHT
The_Masked_Shrimp
Profile Joined February 2012
425 Posts
October 21 2015 22:13 GMT
#173
On October 21 2015 18:06 Alej wrote:
anyone denying that patron warrior (or freeze mage, or miracle rogue) are hard to play decks, has never tried them.


It's a children card game; it's easy by essence. There is no outstanding complexity in decision making for any turn in any match-up and in any card game. If by hard you mean making simple additions well, not good for you !
And hearthstone is even easier than the others because it has such a low variety of mechanics.

Do patron and freeze mage require you to make some more additions than some other decks? Sure, but it is still pretty damn easy.
So yes I tried them, and no they are not hard to play, no deck of any card game of any kind is hard to play. However, it was an obviously superior deck to the rest with both high versatility and high power while being a combo deck so without real counter.

Freeze mage is less outrageously powerfull because it is very much more unlikely to do an OTK with it and it has some terrible matchups. And often BGH + healbot after alex is enough to destroy the whole purpose of their deck.
willoc
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada1530 Posts
October 22 2015 00:07 GMT
#174
Too late Blizzard.
Be bold and mighty forces will come to your aid!
Acritter
Profile Joined August 2010
Syria7637 Posts
October 22 2015 01:01 GMT
#175
On October 22 2015 07:13 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2015 18:06 Alej wrote:
anyone denying that patron warrior (or freeze mage, or miracle rogue) are hard to play decks, has never tried them.


It's a children card game; it's easy by essence. There is no outstanding complexity in decision making for any turn in any match-up and in any card game. If by hard you mean making simple additions well, not good for you !
And hearthstone is even easier than the others because it has such a low variety of mechanics.

Do patron and freeze mage require you to make some more additions than some other decks? Sure, but it is still pretty damn easy.
So yes I tried them, and no they are not hard to play, no deck of any card game of any kind is hard to play. However, it was an obviously superior deck to the rest with both high versatility and high power while being a combo deck so without real counter.

Freeze mage is less outrageously powerfull because it is very much more unlikely to do an OTK with it and it has some terrible matchups. And often BGH + healbot after alex is enough to destroy the whole purpose of their deck.

I, uh.

I guess you thought you had a lot of unwinnable games with that deck which actually weren't.
dont let your memes be dreams - konydora, motivational speaker | not actually living in syria
Prev 1 7 8 9 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RotterdaM Event
16:00
Rotti Stream Rumble 5k Edition
RotterdaM881
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 881
ZombieGrub103
Nathanias 91
JuggernautJason87
ProTech60
StarCraft: Brood War
Larva 667
firebathero 436
sas.Sziky 46
IntoTheRainbow 11
Stormgate
NightEnD11
League of Legends
Grubby4465
Counter-Strike
fl0m1340
pashabiceps792
Stewie2K442
Foxcn343
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King112
PPMD1
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu474
Khaldor274
Other Games
summit1g5104
mouzStarbuck247
KnowMe176
C9.Mang0135
Pyrionflax90
QueenE70
Trikslyr65
Sick54
FunKaTv 51
shahzam35
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick4925
StarCraft 2
angryscii 32
Other Games
BasetradeTV10
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 234
• Adnapsc2 14
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 28
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21432
Other Games
• imaqtpie1894
• Shiphtur522
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
3h 35m
Replay Cast
13h 35m
WardiTV European League
19h 35m
ShoWTimE vs sebesdes
Percival vs NightPhoenix
Shameless vs Nicoract
Krystianer vs Scarlett
ByuN vs uThermal
Harstem vs HeRoMaRinE
PiGosaur Monday
1d 3h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 19h
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Epic.LAN
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
[ Show More ]
Epic.LAN
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Online Event
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Liquipedia Results

Completed

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Championship of Russia 2025
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
K-Championship
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.