EPTAmaz's Death Knight Class Concept - Page 2
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Nyffelmaw
Germany0 Posts
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InW3.Deathknight
Germany0 Posts
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Penlievskiov
Netherlands0 Posts
On July 31 2014 00:26 NInoff wrote: Yes, it removes the selected minion from the board, and puts it in your hand. *deck | ||
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Hellonslaught
Brazil0 Posts
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Dasvi
Greece4 Posts
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iEatWoofers
Switzerland108 Posts
 Well done, Amaz! | ||
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sheepmaniac
0 Posts
On July 31 2014 00:51 Bolosk wrote: This class is well-presented and, for the most part, well balanced. Some thoughts: Shadow Ghoul seems too good. Given that you can almost always activate it with Raise Dead, I think a 3/3 would be more appropriate. Especially since it heals itself to full every time another of your minions dies, if I understand Requiem properly. Raise Dead is actually one of the better hero powers in my opinion, given that you can buff it - with Abusive Sergeant, for example. It also synergies with minions like Knife Juggler, Frostwolf Warlord and Sea Giant. Sure, it can't go through Taunt, and it doesn't work if your board's full, but otherwise it seems like a better Fireblast, especially when you consider all the requiem triggers. Death Coil is a strictly better Arcane Shot/Holy Smite. This isn't a problem in itself, but restoring a minion to full health can be really useful in the late game and AS/HS are already pretty great. Maybe: "Deal 2 damage to a minion. If it's a friendly minion, give it +1/+1 instead." Soul Cleaver mention killing your own minions. I don't think you can actually target you own minions with weapons. One very minor thing, but the correct wording for Outbreak (going by Blessing Of Wisdom) would be: "Choose a minion. It takes damage equal to its Attack." I think a 3/4 is reasonable for a class card. And im fairly sure the minion is replaced by the 3/4 so no more requiems after it activates (so it doesnt keep healing). Kind of agree with this point, you could argue fireblast does have some more utility with things like comboing with Acolyte of Pain or being able to target things on your own board (might be more useful if this dk comes out lol). Imo its a cool hero power nonetheless. I personally think it doesnt matter TOO much if a class card is strictly better than another class card. Each class can only use their class cards so Death Coil will not necessarily make Arcane Shot or Holy Smite less valuable or less played. And tbh I dont think the heal to full health is even THAT good. I mean ancesstral healing is better in that sense but its generally considered a bad card. With the soul cleaver I believe he was talking about killing the tokens you summon with cards like his Skeletal Betrayer or Iceborn Lich (they summon minions onto your opponents board). Agreed, that description is much more hearthstone-like haha | ||
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ystao
United States15 Posts
On July 31 2014 00:26 NInoff wrote: Yes, it removes the selected minion from the board, and puts it in your hand. This sounds too op. The 3/6 body itself should cost 4+ mana, plus a hard removal (it's a battlecry so it can target any minion) and a copy of that minion in your deck? | ||
Darkhorse
United States23455 Posts
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Pwere
Canada1556 Posts
A few examples: + Show Spoiler + -Defile: Hellfire without the downside, cheap Flamestrike, or better. Since you can spawn enemy minions, this should cost at least 6, and even then... Poor Shamans. -Horn of Winter sounds insane due to spawning enemy minions (into Defile the next turn). Maybe fix the card draw to 2, so it's Arcane Intellect + Frost Nova, and go from there. -Shadow Ghoul is, at worst, a 3/4 that deals 1 damage for 3. This is SI:7 territory without requiring the coin. And it can often be a 1 mana 3/4. Definitely OP in arena. - Remorseless Winter sounds very weak. 3 damage to the enemy hero isn't worth 3 mana on top of a Frostbolt, and no Ice Lance to combo. | ||
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mordek
United States12704 Posts
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sbleis03
0 Posts
Trading units with DK would be very inconvenient. | ||
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Tycon
United States1 Post
Concept: Arthas is a given as the DK hero, hes one of the if not the most iconic charater in the warcraft series and as hearthstone is being used to bring casual or non franchise familiar people to the warcraft lore they will want to learn about him by playing as him, feel he is important. Class mechanic: Requiem: Great actually, its easy to program already being in the game and it makes sense for the class, it also makes the hero ability less sub par. And makes some great synergy with death rattle and arena creatures. Hero ability: Great, I've contemplated it myself also wondering if it felt like a poor mans mage ability mixed with the paladin ability but the synergy involved with this ability makes up for it. Attack boots and Requiem make up for this as well as cards like frost wolf warlord would love this ability. The fact that the ability is debatable for being weak such as the hunter hero power allows the over budgeted hero cards to be a balancing act. Creatures: Shadow Goul (1): Definitely powerful and slightly too powerful atm, I would reword the card also to reflect your token for this card to "Requiem: Destroy this minion and put a 3/3 Monstrosity token into play" also as worded make the token a 3/3 not a 3/4. A 3/3 for 1 is defiantly strong without being game breaking and allows you to get the 3/3 suicide your 1/1 on turn 2. Also 3 health creatures are realistically removable early game, heroic strike and shadow word pain would be the only turn 2 removal for a 3/4. TLDR: Change wording of card that its destroyed and replace, make the minion token a 3/3 Skeletal Betrayer (1): I love the idea of this card but I hope theres a work around to making this a huge hindrance on the opponent. I would suggest to balance the card by either raising the mana cost to 3 or giving the minion taunt so its realistically removable at that point of the game where its unlikely minion buffs are played outside of zoo decks. If your hellbent on keeping the mana cost the same without taunt, lower the damage to the player to 1 damage per turn. This card denies the player a creature slot making them have only 6 if they can't remove it, that's punishment enough. Great design though. Iceborn Lich (2): Great card, I find it balanced. Your essentially getting a very good 3 mana stat creature (an unbound elemental) but for 2 mana with the draw back of giving your opponent a silver hand recruit 1/1. Opponent counter play by using sap or an abusive sergeant will counter this creature. Scourge Keeper (2): The power of this card is very hypothetical and depends on if your running sea giant, frost wolf, defender of argus or other mass creature cards. At 3 mana this card is worthless but at 2 mana your geting 6 toughness and 1 attack which is 7 stats spread out for 2 mana. I would either alter the stats to a 2/4 for 3 with this ability which is a standard 3 mana creature stats but with the extra ability to allow an Argus on the following turn or make the creature a 1/3 or 2/2 so its removed rather easily. The synergy is crazy with this card but liek I said either 3 mana with a slight buff or a slight nerf at its current mana cost. Nerubian Devourer (3): This is one of my favorite cards of the set, perfectly balanced. You get a turn 3 or 3 mana yeti at the cost of a creature. Much like the rogues 4 mana 5/5 this is a 4/5 at 3 with a draw back. The great stats are allowed for a class card and over all I wouldn't change the card at all, perfect. You can use it turn 5 with your hero ability also. Well done amaz. Onslaught Rider (4): Flesh eating ghouls big brother. he gains 3 hp for 1 mana cost as a class card. Great card, with 2 minion deaths it becomes almost as op as a water elemental and has the potential to be insanely good should he get enough minion deaths. Although as state requiem only applies to friendly unit deaths. Still a solid card, it needs to ramp its pwoer up meaning it stays on the board easily with 6 hp but doesn't stomp until it has enough fuel. I find it balanced Dark Subjugator (4): 4 mana for a 4/4 with taunt is great stats but the ability could be potentially broken just because it combos with itself. If the opponent can only remove the token one at a time it will always replace itself. Its nice that the Subjugator itself has taunt though, this card would need to see some play testing but a 0/1 taunt token seams a bit more fair since the tokens replace themselves. Stat and cost wise this card is fine. Blood Cavalier (5): 5 mana for a 4/5 is sub par for the mana cost liek dark scale healer but makes up for it with the ability. The ability however seams to grief the opponents field too hard if they don't have the correct deck to fix the 0 attack minion problem. I would suggest changing the ability to create a "skeletal betrayer" (0/2 or 0/1 if the same mana cost) rather than 2 0/1 blood worms. Like many cards in hearth stone the skeletal betrayer is the effect only at a cheap cost while the Blood Cavalier is the same ability but added onto a 4/5 body. It would become what aldor peacekeeper is to humility, or task master is to inner rage. the mana cost and 4/5 body are fine. Ebon Champion: An odd ball card, it is essentially a reverse frostwolf warlord but costing 6 instead of 5 with a 5/5 base body. I think the card is fine and balanced but somewhat on the weakside, but in a good way. Against zoo and mid game rush decks, should you hold a few turns this guy will be a monster drop but only excels in decks where your opponent stacks creatures, while you can give them creatures to aid this minion its situational, making it a great card, not an auto pick and used against minion heavy decks. I like the mechanic of the card and definitely great sidegrade addition Rotting Frost Giant (8): This card is strait up a bad version of sea giant with the exception that it costs 2 less mana from the start. So imagine it as a sea giant when you have 2 creatures on your board, it's good if your behind and awful if your ahead. It's just different enough to be a different card but its rather bland. Teron Gorefiend (9) (L): A 3/6 for 9 is pretty awful stat wise but you use him solely for his effect. His effect is basically a 9 mana assassinate that gives you another card in your deck and a 3/6 creature. Some people think its pretty trash form what I've seen in twtich comments but its definately usable. Not game breaking or winning as far as legendaries go but definitely use able. I think hes fine the way he is but if he ends up being to terrible an alternative would make the creature a 3/4 for 8 mana with the same effect but his current form seams fine. Its unique and mechanically very fun even if its a niche card. I love it and he wins the fatigue war. Spells: Anti-Magic Shell (0): Makes any minion faire dragon or Spectral knight, like most buffs your investing 2 cards to make a single minion, however I'd probably give this a 1 mana cost since the buff is very strong. It should at least be PWS costing but overall a very strong card, an effect that's in the game now and with battlecrys effecting it its mostly balanced. IF it cost 1 mana it would be fine. Death Coil (1): Looking at this card it may seam op but its really jsut a better version of 2 other cards, smite and arcane shot. However the alternative effect is a bad version of ancestral healing but for 1 instead of 0 and not granting taunt. It does add a little extra over the other 2 classes but it targets minions only and cannot hit the face of the opponent. It's not nearly as op as comparing the old 0 mana backstab deal 2 damage. This card is fine, the slightly more useful effect makes up for not having face damage work for finishers. There will be games where the opponent has 2 hp left, has taunts on the board and you draw this wishing it could deal face damage. This card is balanced Dark Simulacrum (1): This card is potentially very powerful and acts sort of like mind vision. With mind vision your opponnent doesn't know what you take but you can't control what you take and it also includes minions. This spell controls what you take but your opponent knows what you take. Itt's essentially making your deck have another spell card from a different class in your deck but for extra mana. I think this card is fine but needs to cost 2 mana so a commitment is made, using it to take flame strike or mind control shouldn't allow you to cast Teron Gorefiend the same turn. Change the mana cost to 2 and this spell is fine. TLDR: Should be 2 mana Death Pact (2): This is probably one of the 2 cards of the set that I find very over powered. Drawing 2 cards for 2 mana just doesn't seam fair even if your sacrificing a creature. Changing the card I would like to make it more versatile, make the card cost 3 mana but to balance this out, if you don't sacrifice a creature gain 1 health and draw 1 card, if you sacrifice a creature draw 2 cards gain 2 life. Just needs to cost 3 mana to be put in line with arcane intellect. Blood Boil (2): A slightly more consistent version of rampage but requires you to waste either your hero power or lose a creature, this card is fine the way it is. It's almost underwhelming since silence causes you to not only lose a creature but lose this buff. If it were any better it would be over powered though. King Slayer (3): This card is balanced and fine, its situational at best and possibly bad, however a 7 damage nuke to the face or killing a large minion on a zerged board for 3 is fine. Most of the time this card will just be meh for its mana cost, needing about 5 minions on board to make its damage per mana worth while. Asphyxiate (3): Although I like this card it's far to similar to hex, hex silences a minion and turns them into a 0/1 with taunt. The only difference this card has is not giving the opponent a taunt and leaving the original toughness of the monster. At its current cost it out preforms hex so it either needs to reduce attack 1 making it a humility on top of a silence or cost 4 mana so its a hex without granting taunt. If the cost is changed to 4 reducing health would also be a nice addition. Outbreak (4): Great card and perfectly balanced, it's a situational assassinate for 4 mana, it basically kills a creature with attack equal or greater to it's health. It weakens a minion with lower attack than health and has no effect on 0 attack minions. I love the concept and design, it's basically the magic the gathering card guilty conscience. Also based on the wording of the card the minion effectively attacks itself, thus on hit effects apply, this would cause maexxna and cobra to kill themselves. Defile (4): This is the other very over powered card. It simply does too much for the cost. Early game creatures with low hp are killed by it in small numbers and late game its effectively a flame strike or greater for 4 mana. To fix this card first it must be RARE not to break arena. Secondly changing the mana cost to 6 would be more appropriate for the effect. A redesign would be the best option for this card . By keeping the same effect but making the mana cost work reverse of Rotting frost giant would not only be unique but also more balanced.The best way to scale this card would to make it cost 3 mana and cost 1 mana extra for every creature on the board. With 3 minions on the board to spell will cost 6 mana for 3 damage aoe, 4 creatures are 7 mana for 4 aoe damage and with a full board of 7 minions you pay 10 mana for 7 aoe damage. This way you get what you pay for with this card and it's versatile. If you want to aoe a small board it's semi expensive but very doable but later in the game you dump a large mana pool to essentially clear the board for a single card (consecrate equality is 2 cards) In a pinch you can pay 4 mana for 1 damage to a single creature or 5 mana for 2 aoe damage. 6 mana for 3 aoe is unique and rather fair for the cost, the more creatures on board the more expensive the card is but the better deal you get out of it. TLDR: Same effect, base 3 mana cost (with 0 enemy minions) and costs 1 additional mana for each enemy creature. (Reverse rotting frost giant). Remoreless Winter: Great card and balanced, its 2 frost bolts in one card for 5 mana, except 1 of the frost bolts must hit an enemy hero. 3 face damage for 5 isn't impressive but the freeze and utility are great. If the board is clear you cannot use this card. If the board is empty and the enemy hero has 4 life left, you need 7 mana to hero power ghoul for 2, then cast remorseless winter on the ghoul to nuke the enemy hero. Horn of Winter (6): This is a great comeback card but very limited. This card essentially assures you will be milling cards if you use it on a full board with more than 10 cards in your hand and assures you lose the fatigue war. However using it on a small board isn't worth the cost, paying 6 mana to draw a card or two is meh at best, the freeze effect is nice though. You basically only use this when there are 2-5 minions on the enemy board and you both need to freeze them and draw cards. For this reason I like this card, it's so situational, can back fire very easily but also give you a come back. Using it only for a freeze can hurt you with over draw, using it only for draw is wasting mana. You can't really play anything you draw anyways. Its frost nova tied with a draw mechanic. This card is balanced and perfectly fine. Frost nova with draw (and can hurt you, i love cards that need thought to use) (combos insanely well with a doomsayer in your deck too) Army of the dead (7): This card is medicore, playable but rather weak unless your board is empty and you need a finisher. At best you get a 7/7 charge for 7 on an empty board, but all in 1/1's. Even with raid leader (a bad card) you get 12 damage in 2/1's that are effected by taunt, 12 damage for 7 mana is garbage when you look at miracle rogue. I'd suggest making the gouls 1/2's with charge. If the opponents board if full this is an over priced unleash the hounds but without combo potential. When you have minions on board this card is awful. This card at least has charge making it not a terrible version of onyxia, 1/2 ghouls would be fine for the 7 mana cost. Weapons: Soul Cleaver (3): This card is unique enough in its stats beign a 2/2 axe for 3. However with the potential to draw 2 cards and act as removal is just too powerful. A compromise would add a death rattle: draw a card. This makes the soul cleaver replace itself no matter what and harison jones / ooze not a terrible defeat. Its essentially a storm forged axe with 1 less durability but it draws a card. The draw from kill must be removed and replaced with a death rattle draw. Frostmourne (8): while it's an epic weapons shouldn't really be legendary. This card is fine and balanced, powerful enough where it's nice to have but i doubt anyone will use it. It''s an ashbringer than can scale its attack but without the 6/6 taunt divine shield creature attached to it for the same mana cost. Another comparison is gladiators long bow, 7 mana for a 5/2 weapon with no retaliation damage. The scaling is fine and can make this blade the king of face smashers. Longbow is hardly used and I would see not many people using this card other than for a face smashing win condition. harrison jones and ooze make you cry when they are dropped here. Overall a great list, if you decide to add other card spells from the lore and remove some cards I would suggest using howling blast as an aoe and using rune weapon as a weapon mod spell. Any and all criticism and comments on my criticism is helpful also | ||
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sjschmidt93
United States2518 Posts
On July 31 2014 00:16 S1eth wrote: We really should have a central custom cards thread (or sub forum), because those threads are all over the place. Also why is this "Featured News"? People make custom cards all the time. bc Amaz yo | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
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Elmo1191
Bulgaria0 Posts
However, i do want to bet on the DK class being Lord Darion Mograine and the class legendary card being The Lich King. I think it's kind of more fitting somehow, especially when viewing the priest class with the priest being Anduin and the class legendary being The Prophet Velen, and not the other way around. But that's my own guess. Edit: A little suggestion - I think "Bow before your king!" is more suitable as a Game Start line and "Your pain shall be legendary!" as a Threaten line. BTW correct me if i'm wrong, but Teron Gorefiend doesn't destroy it's target it just transfers the card into your deck, right? Because there is a difference, especially when considering Deathrattle triggers. Also i assume this can target your own minions too, although i see little merit to using it that way when you can consider how hard of a removal this can be. | ||
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Dreamer.T
United States3584 Posts
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blacksheepwall
China1530 Posts
Wish there was some way to simulate these cards and play with them. | ||
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Hoffmanman
0 Posts
Hero Power: Arguably the best hero power in the game, but frankly I'm okay with that given the novelty of a new class. I think the amount of synergies this would bring already existing cards, in addition to DK specific ones, would encourage a lot of class diversity. Shadow Ghoul: On par with Dark Cultist. Skeletal Betrayer: As far as an overall design choice, I question whether or not we should be using your opponent's board as a resource against them so directly. UTH, Poison Seeds, etc, are one thing, but those can all be played around by your opponent- this is not so much the case. Besides philosophical, my main issue with this card are the stats. It's effectively a 1 cost permanent Hunter hero power. It's simply too devastating when you don't have an answer for it, and even when you do, it's a big tempo swing so early on because you'll typically have to spend your turn 2 and precious removal to deal with it. If implemented, I would be very weary of this card. Should cost at least 2, if not 3 mana. Iceborn Lich: Perfectly balanced. In this case summoning for your opponent as a drawback against yourself is okay and already accepted by Blizzard (compare to The Beast). Scourge Keeper: Balanced and synergistic. Nerubian Devourer: Yeti a turn early at a drawback. Balanced when compared with Void Terror, encourages the synergies already present within the class structure. Great design! Onslaught Rider: Balanced. I love how we're starting to experiment with stranger stat values (consider the new Naxx card Deathlord, a 2/8). I will say that almost any other stat value for this one would warp its balance- 2/7 or 3/6 is too srong, where 2/5 is too weak. 3/5 is acceptable, but 2/6 has much more flavor to it. Dark Subjugator: Balanced and synergistic, 0/2 might be too strong however. Blood Cavalier: I hold the same reservations as I do with Skeletal Betrayer, but at this stage of the game and as a deathrattle, it's somewhat acceptable. Ebon Champion: Balanced, compare to Frostwolf Warlord with a twist. Rotting Frost Giant: A Sea Giant 2 mana cheaper. This is obviously a little overpowered, but in this case it's quite fine for a few reasons. First, most classes have hard removal. Two, Big Game Hunter. Three, all classes have some overpowered cards, such as Fire Elemental, Ancient of Lore, etc. Teron Gorefiend: I'm assuming it destroys the minion on the field and puts a copy of the card into your hand. It's basically Mind Control with less tempo but typically more card value since you reap the benefits of any battlecry effects. Balanced when compared to other legendaries. Anti-Magic Shell: It reduces interactivity between players, at 0 mana is a tempo play, and placed on the right minion could be absolutely crippling. However, I assume it can be silenced. I'd change it to at least 1 mana, but regardless I am weary of this card. Death Coil: The question is whether or not it's okay to give the DK extra card value with these two effects wrapped up into one card. Since it doesn't deal face damage, it's okay. Dark Simulacrum: Amazing card! An effect like this is hard to balance, but I'd agree that 1 mana is appropriate. 2 seems slightly underwhelming for the effect, but 0 is obviously a bit too strong. A wonderful, class-defining card. Death Pact: A cheaper Arcane Intellect with a drawback that synergizes with the class. Again, great design, though a bit overpowered. Blood Boil: Balanced. Rampage has a drawback, this has a drawback. Kingslayer: Balanced, or if anything slightly under-powered. Anything over 3 damage is unlikely, where it's not quite on par with Shadow Bolt. However, 2 mana would be too strong when you consider DK already has Death Coil. Obviously a card designed around your concept of putting minions on the opponent's board, and since it deals face damage, it's fine . Asphyxiate: GG Ragnaros. Also an indirect way of keeping your opponent's board populated which synergizes with other card. Basically hard removal, and balanced on its own. Silence would be huge in the meta after this version of DK is released. Outbreak: Balanced. Hard removal with a condition, the mana cost is appropriate. Giving the DK two hard removal spells might be a bit too strong. Defile: Functions similarly to UTH in how it affects your opponent's gameplay. This is too good for the cost, yes there is a condition but typically this will be at least a 4 mana 3 damage sweep, let alone a 4 mana Flamestrike! This needs to be at least 5 mana. Remorseless Winter: Balanced, and somewhat unique. The freeze mechanic gives the DK more diverse match ups. Horn of Winter: Frost Nova costs 3 mana, typically you'll be getting at least 2 cards out of this... considering how situational it is, it's balanced, as it will often be a dead card, but when you DO need it, it will be great. Army of the Dead: Great synergies with other cards, yet the mana cost makes the card acceptable. Another class-defining card! Soul Cleaver: That value! Rather overpowered, but the stats are gimped so it's much more situational. Perhaps 'draw 1 card' as a deathrattle instead? Frostmourne: Balanced. When compared to other high cost weapons like Gladiator's Longbow, this is card is right in line with them. I feel like a weapon such as Frostmourne should be legendary, but then again I suppose Gorehowl isn't either. Overall great job Amaz, kudos on all the effort this must have taken you! | ||
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Doraemon
Australia14949 Posts
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