Hey guys, it’s Amaz! You might be wondering why I would be doing a Death Knight concept for Hearthstone. Well, I basically love card games and being creative with ideas, and I naturally think of stuff whenever I am interested in a particular topic. Since I love Hearthstone and the Warcraft universe so much, it just made sense for me to try and make a Death Knight set.
In this article, I will comment on the ideas I have for this class, and maybe point out some things which are subtle (like practicality and combos). Hopefully you enjoy my creation!
Quick Notes
- All artwork is from Blizzard and WoW TCG, to my knowledge. - All cards were made on the hearthcards.net site, a big shoutout to them! - Special thanks to Kheba and Backspace for feedback and card balance. - And of course, Blizzard, for making Hearthstone.
Theme
Arthas is the choice to represent the Death Knight class. Why? Because he’s a badass! Remorseless, efficient, and downright evil, why wouldn’t you want to play him in Hearthstone.
The Dead Embrace You
I introduced a new keyword into the game called Requiem. This keyword is actually already in the game, as this effect activates whenever a friendly minion dies. Think of the Flesheating Ghoul’s effect as “Requiem: Gain +1 Attack,” and Cult Master’s “Requiem: Draw a card.”, and you are good to go! The Lich King shows no mercy in killing anything that stands in his way, and his minions are merely tools for his quest for conquest.
Fear the Ghouls
At first glance, the hero power Raise Dead might seem a bit underwhelming, but it actually synergizes a lot with the Death Knight class, especially those with the Requiem effect. It also is a good way to activate spells like Death Pact and Blood Boil, not to mention you could use minions with aura effects and deal more damage with the Ghoul.
Shadow Ghoul is a strong 1-mana minion, but requires you to activate it – the easiest way is to use the hero power and this minion on turn 3, but you can find extra value if you activate another Requiem.
Finally, Army of the Dead is quite a strong finisher, and can be used as removal in emergencies. With all the tokens you will be controlling along with Scourge Keeper and Dark Subjugator, maybe the Raid Leader is a good include in a deck?
Even Your Minions Serve Me
Your opponent’s board is actually a valuable resource for you, an idea not currently found in Hearthstone at the moment. Minions like Ebon Champion and Rotting Frost Giant gain additional power in these situations, while Skeletal Betrayer, Iceborn Lich, and Blood Cavalier “replenishes” this resource. You can also use the signature spell Defile to remove a strong minion on your opponent’s board, and other spells like Kingslayer and Horn of Winter benefit immensely depending on your opponent’s board as well. Sometimes though, it feels a bit more satisfying (and evil) to neutralize your opponent’s minion with Asphyxiate and make your own “token”.
An Arsenal of Death and Destruction
To finish the set, we have the weapons Soul Cleaver, a weapon that gives card draw which you could use on your own “tokens” in emergencies, and the ultimate Frostmourne, which becomes more powerful the more souls it feeds on. Dark Simulacrum extends the range of spells a Death Knight can cast, while Outbreak and Remorseless Winter can stop even the strongest minions in the game. Finally, Teron Gorefiend is the legendary card, and uses the signature “Death Grip” to transfer a minion on the battlefield directly into your deck.
Conclusion
I hope you guys enjoyed this set. Hearthstone is a very well made game as the basic mechanics are very well thought out. I tried really hard to make card effects “elegant” and to the point, much like the other Hearthstone cards that exist currently.
Game Start - "Your pain shall be legendary!" Greetings - "Greetings, mortal." Well Played - "An honorable battle." Thanks - "My sincerest gratitude." Sorry - "An upsetting situation." Oops - "A foolish decision." Threaten - "Bow before your king!"
Looks really fun. Love the concept of flooding your enemies board. And if people would start running buff cards it could be used against this class too.
This class is well-presented and, for the most part, well balanced. Some thoughts:
Shadow Ghoul seems too good. Given that you can almost always activate it with Raise Dead, I think a 3/3 would be more appropriate. Especially since it heals itself to full every time another of your minions dies, if I understand Requiem properly.
Raise Dead is actually one of the better hero powers in my opinion, given that you can buff it - with Abusive Sergeant, for example. It also synergies with minions like Knife Juggler, Frostwolf Warlord and Sea Giant. Sure, it can't go through Taunt, and it doesn't work if your board's full, but otherwise it seems like a better Fireblast, especially when you consider all the requiem triggers.
Death Coil is a strictly better Arcane Shot/Holy Smite. This isn't a problem in itself, but restoring a minion to full health can be really useful in the late game and AS/HS are already pretty great. Maybe: "Deal 2 damage to a minion. If it's a friendly minion, give it +1/+1 instead."
Soul Cleaver mention killing your own minions. I don't think you can actually target you own minions with weapons.
One very minor thing, but the correct wording for Outbreak (going by Blessing Of Wisdom) would be: "Choose a minion. It takes damage equal to its Attack."
The Requiem keyword is not clear. You explain by saying both Flesheating Ghoul and Cult Master use it but these minions have different triggers. Flesheating Ghoul is gains attack on both friendly and enemy minion deaths while Cult Master only draws cards on friendly minion deaths. Pretty massive difference and is a huge deal for many of the cards here.
Dark Subjugator card text: If u have a Taunt minion in play, your enemy can`t attack with minions So basically if you combine it with the hero power you can just lose if your opponent has silence or a spell to kill the Subjugator? Doesn't seem OP at all I really like the style of this set, good synergies, nice flavour texts, but overall to strong in my opinion. But anyways I am always glad to see player made card sets as long as they put some thoughts into it, keep it up. PS: I like your stream^^
On July 31 2014 00:55 Nyffelmaw wrote: Dark Subjugator card text: If u have a Taunt minion in play, your enemy can`t attack with minions So basically if you combine it with the hero power you can just lose if your opponent has silence or a spell to kill the Subjugator? Doesn't seem OP at all I really like the style of this set, good synergies, nice flavour texts, but overall to strong in my opinion. But anyways I am always glad to see player made card sets as long as they put some thoughts into it, keep it up. PS: I like your stream^^
Subjugator itself has taunt, so all you need to do is kill that first. Though I think 3/3 or 2/4 would be better.
On July 31 2014 00:51 Bolosk wrote: This class is well-presented and, for the most part, well balanced. Some thoughts:
Shadow Ghoul seems too good. Given that you can almost always activate it with Raise Dead, I think a 3/3 would be more appropriate. Especially since it heals itself to full every time another of your minions dies, if I understand Requiem properly.
Raise Dead is actually one of the better hero powers in my opinion, given that you can buff it - with Abusive Sergeant, for example. It also synergies with minions like Knife Juggler, Frostwolf Warlord and Sea Giant. Sure, it can't go through Taunt, and it doesn't work if your board's full, but otherwise it seems like a better Fireblast, especially when you consider all the requiem triggers.
Death Coil is a strictly better Arcane Shot/Holy Smite. This isn't a problem in itself, but restoring a minion to full health can be really useful in the late game and AS/HS are already pretty great. Maybe: "Deal 2 damage to a minion. If it's a friendly minion, give it +1/+1 instead."
Soul Cleaver mention killing your own minions. I don't think you can actually target you own minions with weapons.
One very minor thing, but the correct wording for Outbreak (going by Blessing Of Wisdom) would be: "Choose a minion. It takes damage equal to its Attack."
I think a 3/4 is reasonable for a class card. And im fairly sure the minion is replaced by the 3/4 so no more requiems after it activates (so it doesnt keep healing).
Kind of agree with this point, you could argue fireblast does have some more utility with things like comboing with Acolyte of Pain or being able to target things on your own board (might be more useful if this dk comes out lol). Imo its a cool hero power nonetheless.
I personally think it doesnt matter TOO much if a class card is strictly better than another class card. Each class can only use their class cards so Death Coil will not necessarily make Arcane Shot or Holy Smite less valuable or less played. And tbh I dont think the heal to full health is even THAT good. I mean ancesstral healing is better in that sense but its generally considered a bad card.
With the soul cleaver I believe he was talking about killing the tokens you summon with cards like his Skeletal Betrayer or Iceborn Lich (they summon minions onto your opponents board).
Agreed, that description is much more hearthstone-like haha
On July 31 2014 00:17 scoutyx wrote: Love all the ideas, except the legendary, itseems a bit bad... does it kill the target minion at least?
I thought it actually removed it from the battlefield and put it in your deck somewhere o_o
Yes, it removes the selected minion from the board, and puts it in your hand.
This sounds too op. The 3/6 body itself should cost 4+ mana, plus a hard removal (it's a battlecry so it can target any minion) and a copy of that minion in your deck?
-Defile: Hellfire without the downside, cheap Flamestrike, or better. Since you can spawn enemy minions, this should cost at least 6, and even then... Poor Shamans.
-Horn of Winter sounds insane due to spawning enemy minions (into Defile the next turn). Maybe fix the card draw to 2, so it's Arcane Intellect + Frost Nova, and go from there.
-Shadow Ghoul is, at worst, a 3/4 that deals 1 damage for 3. This is SI:7 territory without requiring the coin. And it can often be a 1 mana 3/4. Definitely OP in arena.
- Remorseless Winter sounds very weak. 3 damage to the enemy hero isn't worth 3 mana on top of a Frostbolt, and no Ice Lance to combo.
Hey amaz, I really like the work you put in and did for creating a Death Knight class, a class I'd love to see and play in HS. The following is my review and comments on the concept, cards and their power. Take what I saw with a grain of salt but I'm sure the more feed back you obtain the better.
Concept: Arthas is a given as the DK hero, hes one of the if not the most iconic charater in the warcraft series and as hearthstone is being used to bring casual or non franchise familiar people to the warcraft lore they will want to learn about him by playing as him, feel he is important.
Class mechanic: Requiem: Great actually, its easy to program already being in the game and it makes sense for the class, it also makes the hero ability less sub par. And makes some great synergy with death rattle and arena creatures.
Hero ability: Great, I've contemplated it myself also wondering if it felt like a poor mans mage ability mixed with the paladin ability but the synergy involved with this ability makes up for it. Attack boots and Requiem make up for this as well as cards like frost wolf warlord would love this ability. The fact that the ability is debatable for being weak such as the hunter hero power allows the over budgeted hero cards to be a balancing act.
Creatures:
Shadow Goul (1): Definitely powerful and slightly too powerful atm, I would reword the card also to reflect your token for this card to "Requiem: Destroy this minion and put a 3/3 Monstrosity token into play" also as worded make the token a 3/3 not a 3/4. A 3/3 for 1 is defiantly strong without being game breaking and allows you to get the 3/3 suicide your 1/1 on turn 2. Also 3 health creatures are realistically removable early game, heroic strike and shadow word pain would be the only turn 2 removal for a 3/4. TLDR: Change wording of card that its destroyed and replace, make the minion token a 3/3
Skeletal Betrayer (1): I love the idea of this card but I hope theres a work around to making this a huge hindrance on the opponent. I would suggest to balance the card by either raising the mana cost to 3 or giving the minion taunt so its realistically removable at that point of the game where its unlikely minion buffs are played outside of zoo decks. If your hellbent on keeping the mana cost the same without taunt, lower the damage to the player to 1 damage per turn. This card denies the player a creature slot making them have only 6 if they can't remove it, that's punishment enough. Great design though.
Iceborn Lich (2): Great card, I find it balanced. Your essentially getting a very good 3 mana stat creature (an unbound elemental) but for 2 mana with the draw back of giving your opponent a silver hand recruit 1/1. Opponent counter play by using sap or an abusive sergeant will counter this creature.
Scourge Keeper (2): The power of this card is very hypothetical and depends on if your running sea giant, frost wolf, defender of argus or other mass creature cards. At 3 mana this card is worthless but at 2 mana your geting 6 toughness and 1 attack which is 7 stats spread out for 2 mana. I would either alter the stats to a 2/4 for 3 with this ability which is a standard 3 mana creature stats but with the extra ability to allow an Argus on the following turn or make the creature a 1/3 or 2/2 so its removed rather easily. The synergy is crazy with this card but liek I said either 3 mana with a slight buff or a slight nerf at its current mana cost.
Nerubian Devourer (3): This is one of my favorite cards of the set, perfectly balanced. You get a turn 3 or 3 mana yeti at the cost of a creature. Much like the rogues 4 mana 5/5 this is a 4/5 at 3 with a draw back. The great stats are allowed for a class card and over all I wouldn't change the card at all, perfect. You can use it turn 5 with your hero ability also. Well done amaz.
Onslaught Rider (4): Flesh eating ghouls big brother. he gains 3 hp for 1 mana cost as a class card. Great card, with 2 minion deaths it becomes almost as op as a water elemental and has the potential to be insanely good should he get enough minion deaths. Although as state requiem only applies to friendly unit deaths. Still a solid card, it needs to ramp its pwoer up meaning it stays on the board easily with 6 hp but doesn't stomp until it has enough fuel. I find it balanced
Dark Subjugator (4): 4 mana for a 4/4 with taunt is great stats but the ability could be potentially broken just because it combos with itself. If the opponent can only remove the token one at a time it will always replace itself. Its nice that the Subjugator itself has taunt though, this card would need to see some play testing but a 0/1 taunt token seams a bit more fair since the tokens replace themselves. Stat and cost wise this card is fine.
Blood Cavalier (5): 5 mana for a 4/5 is sub par for the mana cost liek dark scale healer but makes up for it with the ability. The ability however seams to grief the opponents field too hard if they don't have the correct deck to fix the 0 attack minion problem. I would suggest changing the ability to create a "skeletal betrayer" (0/2 or 0/1 if the same mana cost) rather than 2 0/1 blood worms. Like many cards in hearth stone the skeletal betrayer is the effect only at a cheap cost while the Blood Cavalier is the same ability but added onto a 4/5 body. It would become what aldor peacekeeper is to humility, or task master is to inner rage. the mana cost and 4/5 body are fine.
Ebon Champion: An odd ball card, it is essentially a reverse frostwolf warlord but costing 6 instead of 5 with a 5/5 base body. I think the card is fine and balanced but somewhat on the weakside, but in a good way. Against zoo and mid game rush decks, should you hold a few turns this guy will be a monster drop but only excels in decks where your opponent stacks creatures, while you can give them creatures to aid this minion its situational, making it a great card, not an auto pick and used against minion heavy decks. I like the mechanic of the card and definitely great sidegrade addition
Rotting Frost Giant (8): This card is strait up a bad version of sea giant with the exception that it costs 2 less mana from the start. So imagine it as a sea giant when you have 2 creatures on your board, it's good if your behind and awful if your ahead. It's just different enough to be a different card but its rather bland.
Teron Gorefiend (9) (L): A 3/6 for 9 is pretty awful stat wise but you use him solely for his effect. His effect is basically a 9 mana assassinate that gives you another card in your deck and a 3/6 creature. Some people think its pretty trash form what I've seen in twtich comments but its definately usable. Not game breaking or winning as far as legendaries go but definitely use able. I think hes fine the way he is but if he ends up being to terrible an alternative would make the creature a 3/4 for 8 mana with the same effect but his current form seams fine. Its unique and mechanically very fun even if its a niche card. I love it and he wins the fatigue war.
Spells:
Anti-Magic Shell (0): Makes any minion faire dragon or Spectral knight, like most buffs your investing 2 cards to make a single minion, however I'd probably give this a 1 mana cost since the buff is very strong. It should at least be PWS costing but overall a very strong card, an effect that's in the game now and with battlecrys effecting it its mostly balanced. IF it cost 1 mana it would be fine.
Death Coil (1): Looking at this card it may seam op but its really jsut a better version of 2 other cards, smite and arcane shot. However the alternative effect is a bad version of ancestral healing but for 1 instead of 0 and not granting taunt. It does add a little extra over the other 2 classes but it targets minions only and cannot hit the face of the opponent. It's not nearly as op as comparing the old 0 mana backstab deal 2 damage. This card is fine, the slightly more useful effect makes up for not having face damage work for finishers. There will be games where the opponent has 2 hp left, has taunts on the board and you draw this wishing it could deal face damage. This card is balanced
Dark Simulacrum (1): This card is potentially very powerful and acts sort of like mind vision. With mind vision your opponnent doesn't know what you take but you can't control what you take and it also includes minions. This spell controls what you take but your opponent knows what you take. Itt's essentially making your deck have another spell card from a different class in your deck but for extra mana. I think this card is fine but needs to cost 2 mana so a commitment is made, using it to take flame strike or mind control shouldn't allow you to cast Teron Gorefiend the same turn. Change the mana cost to 2 and this spell is fine. TLDR: Should be 2 mana
Death Pact (2): This is probably one of the 2 cards of the set that I find very over powered. Drawing 2 cards for 2 mana just doesn't seam fair even if your sacrificing a creature. Changing the card I would like to make it more versatile, make the card cost 3 mana but to balance this out, if you don't sacrifice a creature gain 1 health and draw 1 card, if you sacrifice a creature draw 2 cards gain 2 life. Just needs to cost 3 mana to be put in line with arcane intellect.
Blood Boil (2): A slightly more consistent version of rampage but requires you to waste either your hero power or lose a creature, this card is fine the way it is. It's almost underwhelming since silence causes you to not only lose a creature but lose this buff. If it were any better it would be over powered though.
King Slayer (3): This card is balanced and fine, its situational at best and possibly bad, however a 7 damage nuke to the face or killing a large minion on a zerged board for 3 is fine. Most of the time this card will just be meh for its mana cost, needing about 5 minions on board to make its damage per mana worth while.
Asphyxiate (3): Although I like this card it's far to similar to hex, hex silences a minion and turns them into a 0/1 with taunt. The only difference this card has is not giving the opponent a taunt and leaving the original toughness of the monster. At its current cost it out preforms hex so it either needs to reduce attack 1 making it a humility on top of a silence or cost 4 mana so its a hex without granting taunt. If the cost is changed to 4 reducing health would also be a nice addition.
Outbreak (4): Great card and perfectly balanced, it's a situational assassinate for 4 mana, it basically kills a creature with attack equal or greater to it's health. It weakens a minion with lower attack than health and has no effect on 0 attack minions. I love the concept and design, it's basically the magic the gathering card guilty conscience. Also based on the wording of the card the minion effectively attacks itself, thus on hit effects apply, this would cause maexxna and cobra to kill themselves.
Defile (4): This is the other very over powered card. It simply does too much for the cost. Early game creatures with low hp are killed by it in small numbers and late game its effectively a flame strike or greater for 4 mana. To fix this card first it must be RARE not to break arena. Secondly changing the mana cost to 6 would be more appropriate for the effect.
A redesign would be the best option for this card . By keeping the same effect but making the mana cost work reverse of Rotting frost giant would not only be unique but also more balanced.The best way to scale this card would to make it cost 3 mana and cost 1 mana extra for every creature on the board. With 3 minions on the board to spell will cost 6 mana for 3 damage aoe, 4 creatures are 7 mana for 4 aoe damage and with a full board of 7 minions you pay 10 mana for 7 aoe damage. This way you get what you pay for with this card and it's versatile. If you want to aoe a small board it's semi expensive but very doable but later in the game you dump a large mana pool to essentially clear the board for a single card (consecrate equality is 2 cards) In a pinch you can pay 4 mana for 1 damage to a single creature or 5 mana for 2 aoe damage. 6 mana for 3 aoe is unique and rather fair for the cost, the more creatures on board the more expensive the card is but the better deal you get out of it. TLDR: Same effect, base 3 mana cost (with 0 enemy minions) and costs 1 additional mana for each enemy creature. (Reverse rotting frost giant).
Remoreless Winter: Great card and balanced, its 2 frost bolts in one card for 5 mana, except 1 of the frost bolts must hit an enemy hero. 3 face damage for 5 isn't impressive but the freeze and utility are great. If the board is clear you cannot use this card. If the board is empty and the enemy hero has 4 life left, you need 7 mana to hero power ghoul for 2, then cast remorseless winter on the ghoul to nuke the enemy hero.
Horn of Winter (6): This is a great comeback card but very limited. This card essentially assures you will be milling cards if you use it on a full board with more than 10 cards in your hand and assures you lose the fatigue war. However using it on a small board isn't worth the cost, paying 6 mana to draw a card or two is meh at best, the freeze effect is nice though. You basically only use this when there are 2-5 minions on the enemy board and you both need to freeze them and draw cards. For this reason I like this card, it's so situational, can back fire very easily but also give you a come back. Using it only for a freeze can hurt you with over draw, using it only for draw is wasting mana. You can't really play anything you draw anyways. Its frost nova tied with a draw mechanic. This card is balanced and perfectly fine. Frost nova with draw (and can hurt you, i love cards that need thought to use) (combos insanely well with a doomsayer in your deck too)
Army of the dead (7): This card is medicore, playable but rather weak unless your board is empty and you need a finisher. At best you get a 7/7 charge for 7 on an empty board, but all in 1/1's. Even with raid leader (a bad card) you get 12 damage in 2/1's that are effected by taunt, 12 damage for 7 mana is garbage when you look at miracle rogue. I'd suggest making the gouls 1/2's with charge. If the opponents board if full this is an over priced unleash the hounds but without combo potential. When you have minions on board this card is awful. This card at least has charge making it not a terrible version of onyxia, 1/2 ghouls would be fine for the 7 mana cost.
Weapons:
Soul Cleaver (3): This card is unique enough in its stats beign a 2/2 axe for 3. However with the potential to draw 2 cards and act as removal is just too powerful. A compromise would add a death rattle: draw a card. This makes the soul cleaver replace itself no matter what and harison jones / ooze not a terrible defeat. Its essentially a storm forged axe with 1 less durability but it draws a card. The draw from kill must be removed and replaced with a death rattle draw.
Frostmourne (8): while it's an epic weapons shouldn't really be legendary. This card is fine and balanced, powerful enough where it's nice to have but i doubt anyone will use it. It''s an ashbringer than can scale its attack but without the 6/6 taunt divine shield creature attached to it for the same mana cost. Another comparison is gladiators long bow, 7 mana for a 5/2 weapon with no retaliation damage. The scaling is fine and can make this blade the king of face smashers. Longbow is hardly used and I would see not many people using this card other than for a face smashing win condition. harrison jones and ooze make you cry when they are dropped here.
Overall a great list, if you decide to add other card spells from the lore and remove some cards I would suggest using howling blast as an aoe and using rune weapon as a weapon mod spell. Any and all criticism and comments on my criticism is helpful also
Cool concept. Really like most of the stuff and despite what some people might think, the cards (in terms of pure effect / stats to mana cost ratio) seem pretty balanced. I suppose we'll never know unless this exact cards are released as the DK class, but when it comes to theory crafting without the benefit of seeing the cards in play, i think this is as good of a job as you can do when it comes to making balanced cards.
However, i do want to bet on the DK class being Lord Darion Mograine and the class legendary card being The Lich King. I think it's kind of more fitting somehow, especially when viewing the priest class with the priest being Anduin and the class legendary being The Prophet Velen, and not the other way around. But that's my own guess.
Edit: A little suggestion - I think "Bow before your king!" is more suitable as a Game Start line and "Your pain shall be legendary!" as a Threaten line.
BTW correct me if i'm wrong, but Teron Gorefiend doesn't destroy it's target it just transfers the card into your deck, right? Because there is a difference, especially when considering Deathrattle triggers. Also i assume this can target your own minions too, although i see little merit to using it that way when you can consider how hard of a removal this can be.
Hero Power: Arguably the best hero power in the game, but frankly I'm okay with that given the novelty of a new class. I think the amount of synergies this would bring already existing cards, in addition to DK specific ones, would encourage a lot of class diversity.
Shadow Ghoul: On par with Dark Cultist.
Skeletal Betrayer: As far as an overall design choice, I question whether or not we should be using your opponent's board as a resource against them so directly. UTH, Poison Seeds, etc, are one thing, but those can all be played around by your opponent- this is not so much the case.
Besides philosophical, my main issue with this card are the stats. It's effectively a 1 cost permanent Hunter hero power. It's simply too devastating when you don't have an answer for it, and even when you do, it's a big tempo swing so early on because you'll typically have to spend your turn 2 and precious removal to deal with it. If implemented, I would be very weary of this card. Should cost at least 2, if not 3 mana.
Iceborn Lich: Perfectly balanced. In this case summoning for your opponent as a drawback against yourself is okay and already accepted by Blizzard (compare to The Beast).
Scourge Keeper: Balanced and synergistic.
Nerubian Devourer: Yeti a turn early at a drawback. Balanced when compared with Void Terror, encourages the synergies already present within the class structure. Great design!
Onslaught Rider: Balanced. I love how we're starting to experiment with stranger stat values (consider the new Naxx card Deathlord, a 2/8). I will say that almost any other stat value for this one would warp its balance- 2/7 or 3/6 is too srong, where 2/5 is too weak. 3/5 is acceptable, but 2/6 has much more flavor to it.
Dark Subjugator: Balanced and synergistic, 0/2 might be too strong however.
Blood Cavalier: I hold the same reservations as I do with Skeletal Betrayer, but at this stage of the game and as a deathrattle, it's somewhat acceptable.
Ebon Champion: Balanced, compare to Frostwolf Warlord with a twist.
Rotting Frost Giant: A Sea Giant 2 mana cheaper. This is obviously a little overpowered, but in this case it's quite fine for a few reasons. First, most classes have hard removal. Two, Big Game Hunter. Three, all classes have some overpowered cards, such as Fire Elemental, Ancient of Lore, etc.
Teron Gorefiend: I'm assuming it destroys the minion on the field and puts a copy of the card into your hand. It's basically Mind Control with less tempo but typically more card value since you reap the benefits of any battlecry effects. Balanced when compared to other legendaries.
Anti-Magic Shell: It reduces interactivity between players, at 0 mana is a tempo play, and placed on the right minion could be absolutely crippling. However, I assume it can be silenced. I'd change it to at least 1 mana, but regardless I am weary of this card.
Death Coil: The question is whether or not it's okay to give the DK extra card value with these two effects wrapped up into one card. Since it doesn't deal face damage, it's okay.
Dark Simulacrum: Amazing card! An effect like this is hard to balance, but I'd agree that 1 mana is appropriate. 2 seems slightly underwhelming for the effect, but 0 is obviously a bit too strong. A wonderful, class-defining card.
Death Pact: A cheaper Arcane Intellect with a drawback that synergizes with the class. Again, great design, though a bit overpowered.
Blood Boil: Balanced. Rampage has a drawback, this has a drawback.
Kingslayer: Balanced, or if anything slightly under-powered. Anything over 3 damage is unlikely, where it's not quite on par with Shadow Bolt. However, 2 mana would be too strong when you consider DK already has Death Coil. Obviously a card designed around your concept of putting minions on the opponent's board, and since it deals face damage, it's fine . Asphyxiate: GG Ragnaros. Also an indirect way of keeping your opponent's board populated which synergizes with other card. Basically hard removal, and balanced on its own. Silence would be huge in the meta after this version of DK is released.
Outbreak: Balanced. Hard removal with a condition, the mana cost is appropriate. Giving the DK two hard removal spells might be a bit too strong.
Defile: Functions similarly to UTH in how it affects your opponent's gameplay. This is too good for the cost, yes there is a condition but typically this will be at least a 4 mana 3 damage sweep, let alone a 4 mana Flamestrike! This needs to be at least 5 mana.
Remorseless Winter: Balanced, and somewhat unique. The freeze mechanic gives the DK more diverse match ups.
Horn of Winter: Frost Nova costs 3 mana, typically you'll be getting at least 2 cards out of this... considering how situational it is, it's balanced, as it will often be a dead card, but when you DO need it, it will be great.
Army of the Dead: Great synergies with other cards, yet the mana cost makes the card acceptable. Another class-defining card!
Soul Cleaver: That value! Rather overpowered, but the stats are gimped so it's much more situational. Perhaps 'draw 1 card' as a deathrattle instead?
Frostmourne: Balanced. When compared to other high cost weapons like Gladiator's Longbow, this is card is right in line with them. I feel like a weapon such as Frostmourne should be legendary, but then again I suppose Gorehowl isn't either.
Overall great job Amaz, kudos on all the effort this must have taken you!
Some cards are very good, others are very bad, but nothing stands out as outright broken. Until someone makes a deck that fills the opponent's board with those Skeletal betrayers and blood worm things. The only thing I don't like is the legendary. It hits paladin where it hurts (stealing tirion), and encourages the "extreme burst from hand you can do nothing about" meta, which I personally dislike. Sure, it's unique and all, but I'd rather have something like this: Costs 4, has 4/4 stats and reads: "Cannot be targeted by spells or hero powers. Requiem: Gain +1/+2", or similar.
Edit: So Requiem is when a friendly minion dies? This means that Flesheating Ghoul will not, in fact, be "Requiem: Gain +1/+0" as it gains the attack regardless of whether it's a friendly or an enemy minion that died. Just as a note.
On July 31 2014 00:53 Cade)Flayer wrote: The Requiem keyword is not clear. You explain by saying both Flesheating Ghoul and Cult Master use it but these minions have different triggers. Flesheating Ghoul is gains attack on both friendly and enemy minion deaths while Cult Master only draws cards on friendly minion deaths. Pretty massive difference and is a huge deal for many of the cards here.
On July 31 2014 00:53 Cade)Flayer wrote: The Requiem keyword is not clear. You explain by saying both Flesheating Ghoul and Cult Master use it but these minions have different triggers. Flesheating Ghoul is gains attack on both friendly and enemy minion deaths while Cult Master only draws cards on friendly minion deaths. Pretty massive difference and is a huge deal for many of the cards here.
Exactly what I was thinking, confused me greatly
It is also used in 2 different ways it seems (unless I'm mistaken). On some cards such as Onslaught Rider it is meant to keep triggering for each minion death but for Shadow Ghoul it can only trigger once or will it transform multiples times during concurrent minion deaths?
On July 31 2014 00:53 Cade)Flayer wrote: The Requiem keyword is not clear. You explain by saying both Flesheating Ghoul and Cult Master use it but these minions have different triggers. Flesheating Ghoul is gains attack on both friendly and enemy minion deaths while Cult Master only draws cards on friendly minion deaths. Pretty massive difference and is a huge deal for many of the cards here.
Exactly what I was thinking, confused me greatly
It is also used in 2 different ways it seems (unless I'm mistaken). On some cards such as Onslaught Rider it is meant to keep triggering for each minion death but for Shadow Ghoul it can only trigger once or will it transform multiples times during concurrent minion deaths?
Actually, that's not an inconsistency. The Shadow Ghoul transforms into the a Monstrosity. Look at the Monstrosity token at the bottom - it doesn't have any text whatsoever. So it can only trigger once.
What's confusing is whether or not requiem activates on both you and your opponent's minion's death, or just on your own minions (it's definitely not just your opponents, because he keeps talking about synergy with your hero power).
Amaz just made a (major) mistake referencing Flesheating Ghoul in that opening paragraph - I'm pretty sure he meant "only your own minions". If the effect occurred on both, nearly every card would become obscenely overpowered.
On July 31 2014 00:53 Cade)Flayer wrote: The Requiem keyword is not clear. You explain by saying both Flesheating Ghoul and Cult Master use it but these minions have different triggers. Flesheating Ghoul is gains attack on both friendly and enemy minion deaths while Cult Master only draws cards on friendly minion deaths. Pretty massive difference and is a huge deal for many of the cards here.
Exactly what I was thinking, confused me greatly
It is also used in 2 different ways it seems (unless I'm mistaken). On some cards such as Onslaught Rider it is meant to keep triggering for each minion death but for Shadow Ghoul it can only trigger once or will it transform multiples times during concurrent minion deaths?
The 3/4 monstrosity the shadow ghoul turns into doesn't have Requiem.
Sounds pretty OP especially cards like Defile and none of them are bad (you designed all the cards pretty well) which no other class from Blizzard can claim to not have.
But this isn't about the balance, for concept, this is pretty good. However, personally I always imagined Death Knight class cards to be in black and Frostmourne would be the Legendary.
Really nice. I have some concepts written down for a Blood Mage class. Maybe I'll put that together some time. This post really motivates me to finally do that
I'll never understand why people want arthas to be the deathknight hero when Teron Gorefiend is a blizzard character Teron is far more badass. I atleast hope Teron gets to be a legendary eventually(in the actual game), he deserves that much.
These artworks look a lot more mature, and more like MTG imo.
Some cards seem too powerful for their costs, but really nicely done. Wouldnt mind HS going a little bit more complex and updating their artworks from cartoonish to this.
Great job! I think Frostmourne should be the legendary. After all, it's the most legendary item in all the warcraft history. Also, Arthas could have some special emote for Jaina and Uther, probably the Greeting.
On August 01 2014 13:48 Decarabia wrote: Great job! I think Frostmourne should be the legendary. After all, it's the most legendary item in all the warcraft history. Also, Arthas could have some special emote for Jaina and Uther, probably the Greeting.
Ashbringer/Corrupted Ashbringer come to mind in protest to that statement.
On August 01 2014 13:54 Mortal wrote: Ashbringer/Corrupted Ashbringer come to mind in protest to that statement.
I not mean in power, but i think it's the most iconic weapon in warcraft.
I understand, but I think there's an argument to be made for those two either way- especially considering one is attainable, whereas Frostmourne is not (Shadowmourne isn't that cool, it was a dumb legendary).
Gotta love Amaz's creativity :D but i think most of these cards are wayyyyy too mana efficient... sorry amaz but i think it's better if most of these cards are left at 5 so not too many combos could be used playing dk...
The work put here is amazing and easily one of the best fan-made sets. However, I wouldn't necessarily say it's one of the most realistically balanced with the existing game. I'm surprised there were even other top players involved in the testing and balancing of the set - how did all of them, brilliant players (Amaz himself above all), accept this set as balanced? It seems a waste that such great concepts and so much work end up again, similarly to other fan-made sets, as way too overpowered (imho). I wouldn't go through all cards that I think are slightly or very OP, but I'd just say even the hero power that was defended multiple times for not being underwhelming is in my opinion actually great and very strong. I think even without the tons of very powerful synergy it has with other cards of the set, it would be an excellent hero power.
edit: Damn, I sometimes focus on criticizing so much that I forget to fully praise the things I loved. So, many concepts here were very exciting and original, but I mostly loved the idea to give the opponent minions with negative effects that he has to worry about clearing himself from his board side. That's a very simple and elegant concept that completely changes the way the game has to be played, so I thought it was really cool! The way it synergizes with mechanics benefiting from opponent's number of minions is also nice.
Take my money and give me this expansion now please!
Very well-thought out. But I see what you did here...This is going to be the ultimate anti-zoo deck ..and I love it...from Hero power to spells like Defile/King Slayer...the concept of putting garbage minion on your opponent's board will all battle against Zoo
Consider this Amaz's application to Blizzard xD. Let's just hope they put him in the design or game testing departments and not the balance department!!
Class is broken. The mana efficiencies is too high, this is just druid if it got weapons and hard removal. Only decks right now that doesn't get rolled by this would be freezemage and miracle rogue.
Also the class is boring, every card in the class is designed to be playable. There isn't really even any gimmicks with the class. It doesn't have the spirit of hearthstone at all.
while I have thought of the same hero ability too, I thought that for Arthus as a death class it would be much more fitting to have Death Coil: Heal an ally character for 2 points or deal 1 damage to an enemy character.
In the end sadly this is just a sub goal that AmaZ did, so it has some cool ideas but is mostly not intriguing to me.
Sorry if this has already been answered, I can't seem to find it though. Requiem has the same effect as Flesheating Ghoul or the same effect as Cult Master? Because they have different effects.
I would just like some clarity on whether Requiem is for any minion dying or only your own minions dying.
On August 03 2014 09:13 kmillz wrote: Sorry if this has already been answered, I can't seem to find it though. Requiem has the same effect as Flesheating Ghoul or the same effect as Cult Master? Because they have different effects.
I would just like some clarity on whether Requiem is for any minion dying or only your own minions dying.
On July 30 2014 19:28 Liquid`Amaz wrote: I introduced a new keyword into the game called Requiem. This keyword is actually already in the game, as this effect activates whenever a friendly minion dies.
funny enough, the effect of "Requiem" that AmaZ thought of is neither the effect of Flesheating Ghoul nor the effect of Cult Master exactly, it is a mix of both.
Requiem is apparently supposed to trigger whenever a friendly minion dies (including the minion with the Requiem effect itself) Cult Master activates whenever a friendly minion other than the Cult Master itself dies.
At least that's how AmaZ worded it. Which would make the Shadow Ghoul really, really strong (always morphs except for when silenced. Aka get a Yeti worth of stats on a Harvest Golem like creature. For 2 mana.)
The biggest issue I have with this class is that he has many cards that are essentially 2 for one. That is, 2 card effects in a single card. Even though the mana costs are balanced, this practically ends up giving him card advantage regardless.
Hero ability is weak and does not feel like it fits class. Also, Any Death knight deck that doesn't have "DEATHGRIP" cannot be taken seriously. Other than that, it was a interesting take. This is something that i have thought of with others about what a DK deck would have, and also what a panda/monk class would have.
It's interesting that most of the cards have very high health compared to damage ratios, making the deck not seem like a fit for rushing or aggro. And yet the hero power gives a temporary 1/1 charge minion. Interested to see how those dynamics work together.
Defile is obviously broken (4 mana flamestrike easily) Soul cleaver seems me too strong for early game, triggering its effect should cost the weapon 1 durabilty. As of now it gives too much card advantage for a cad that will also give you board contorl. Horn of winter might be too good : if you freeze oppoents board you take very little risks next turn, so it seems like an improved sprint
Shadowghoul, Dark subjugator and Death Coil are definitley on the possibly too strong side, though not necessarily much more than Blood Imp, Druid of the claw or Frostbolt. On theother hand Kingslayer is one mana overcosted.
Regarding Nerubian devourer : do you get the bonus when you play him on an empty board ?
What I dislike, part from some balance problems above, is : * The class completely rapes shamans (though a bloodlust might bring payback) * If introduced, it would make some cards I tend to find a little too frequent (Defender of Argus, Sunfury Protector) even more staple than they already are now, which would be a very bad thing IMHO. * I think the combo of Requiem with hero power is too synergistic and voids some of the flavor requiem could have had
On August 05 2014 09:58 Aureknight wrote: Hero ability is weak and does not feel like it fits class. Also, Any Death knight deck that doesn't have "DEATHGRIP" cannot be taken seriously. Other than that, it was a interesting take. This is something that i have thought of with others about what a DK deck would have, and also what a panda/monk class would have.
Hmm... what about
Deathgrip (0) -- Give an enemy minion taunt.
"But that's useless!" You may cry. Nah, it lets you do things like pull scary big hitters out from behind a taunt wall.
or
Deathgrip (2) -- Your opponent plays a random card from their hand; if that hero currently has fewer mana crystals than the cost of the card, discard it instead.
This is just pure RNG and I think adds some flavor to the deck, even if it's not a top tier card. It quickly peters out in usefulness, but played early game it could potentially eat the odd legendary. The "mana crystals" wording refers to max mana. So even if they're currently at 0/8 mana, any card with a cost of 0-8 will be played successfully.
Some very interesting card concepts. I especially like the removal card that says 'target minion deals its damage to itself'.
This is what the Shadow Word Pain/Death (or as I like to call them, Shadow Word Suck/Blow) cards should be. Situationally great, but always usable. Amaz friggin gets it.
No way Blizzard makes something like Horn of Winter though. It is all of the problems of Buzzard + UTH in a single card.
Also that hero power is too good. The vast majority of the time, anything X/1 is going to die as soon as it attacks anyway, so the drawback isn't really a drawback when it has charge. Also, there is no way for your opponent to play around that requiem keyword with a hero power like that. I would say just give them the same power the pally has and they at least get a turn to react.
Cool read, I'm a fan of Amaz generally. Anyone who can take priest to legend is worth listening to.
On August 05 2014 09:58 Aureknight wrote: Hero ability is weak and does not feel like it fits class. Also, Any Death knight deck that doesn't have "DEATHGRIP" cannot be taken seriously. Other than that, it was a interesting take. This is something that i have thought of with others about what a DK deck would have, and also what a panda/monk class would have.
Hmm... what about
Deathgrip (0) -- Give an enemy minion taunt.
"But that's useless!" You may cry. Nah, it lets you do things like pull scary big hitters out from behind a taunt wall.
or
Deathgrip (2) -- Your opponent plays a random card from their hand; if that hero currently has fewer mana crystals than the cost of the card, discard it instead.
This is just pure RNG and I think adds some flavor to the deck, even if it's not a top tier card. It quickly peters out in usefulness, but played early game it could potentially eat the odd legendary. The "mana crystals" wording refers to max mana. So even if they're currently at 0/8 mana, any card with a cost of 0-8 will be played successfully.
Deathgrip would be a worse version of Ancestral Healing. Yeah you wouldn't have to worry about healing your opponent's minion, but it loses the utility of healing your own minion if you find yourself needing to.
Also, blizzard is not going to do discard effects. Discard effects are not fun, and they are absolutely right exclude them.
On July 31 2014 00:51 Bolosk wrote: One very minor thing, but the correct wording for Outbreak (going by Blessing Of Wisdom) would be: "Choose a minion. It takes damage equal to its Attack."
It is minor, but based on Betrayal it should be "Force a minion to deal its damage to itself."
There's a discrepancy between the mouse-over card image and the actual card Betrayal. It actually says "Force an enemy minion to deal its damage to the minions next to it." I checked in-game.
Your wording means something different. If you targeted an Emperor Cobra, for example, would it deal 2 damage to itself or kill itself? Your version claims the former, mine the later. Neither version is wrong, but the Amaz card says "deal its damage to itself", and if it works like Betrayal, it should be the later.
cant see how the new hero ability can be viewed as that weak, its very similar vs mages, trading off tauntability for synergies. and shadow ghoul + hero ability seems like a very well spent 3 mana
I would rather pay $10 for this than a new character portait of an existing class. Honestly, this all looks pretty good. There are a bunch of general classless cards that would play nicely with this.
The only change i would make would be make Frostmourne the legendary card and bump Teron down to epic. Frostmourne lore-wise would qualify long before Mr. Gorefiend in my book.
EPT
im such a noob :'(
