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On July 24 2014 19:28 figq wrote:
First, someone said only Heroic Maexxna required custom deck, not popular netdeck - not true, it works with popular Face Huntard perfectly, no need to tune anything, no healing needed for this deck to beat it. Second, I think the difficulty is just fine. It was easy for me, but I have most of the cards in the game; that's not true for the majority of people. When I tried it with underdeveloped accounts that don't even have Earthen Ring Farseer or the dust to craft it, it's actually a challenge. Not to mention, trying to beat everything with strictly basic cards, no commons even. Good luck with that. The difficulty is reasonably adapted to the existing player base of the game.
working on winning heroic with basic only right now, no commons or rarer. beat anub on first try.
going to others now; beating all of them with basics only should be easy, the hard part would be doing them all with just one deck.
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On July 24 2014 02:34 Azuzu wrote:
It's still only the first wing! Clearing the arachnid quarter was generally considered the easiest! I'm sure there will be some more difficult challenges in the later wings.
Anyway, I found the difficulty to be pretty good. A custom deck was needed for maexna which is to be expected from the harder bosses.
The AI was still pretty bad. I got shadow flamed for 1 at one point which was a pretty big facepalm.
Most glaring error I remember as well. Had a 4/4 on the board and all my creatures were 3 and 4 health....
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Oh please, heroic wasn't to easy. Even people like Kolento needed a few tries to beat some. Ofcourse you beat them if you draw the right cards, it's a card game.. Do you rather have a game in which you need to topdeck every turn to win?
The only thing that was disappointing was the length.
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please make a more thorough argument vodka. what you provided was short. if you can beat them entirely with some basic strats and basic cards; that bespeaks of some serious weaknesses.
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1/3 of the people think that it is too hard. That is more than I expected. I feel so relieved right now. Let's not get our hopes up for the upcoming wings.
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very skeptical of these fellows who claim to rip through the expansion on their first try, in less than 1 hour with all basic cards…it is the interweb after all…if they're that 'good' at results and not just talk, my hope is they do something very lucrative for a living.
in all fairness, the expansion is only 20% open, so judgements on overall quality reflect incomplete knowledge and impatience. any game designer worth his salt won't reveal the best parts until later on, which supports the marketing plan overall…
obviously the heroic mode was the most challenging and very daunting on the first attempt, but they give you the tools to defeat the heroic bosses. the difficulty seemed about right for 'heroic'.
the most glaring weakness, so far, was some of the moves by the AI, which seemed designed to fail...
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Blasted through the normal and class challenges in about an hour, playing my hands whilst playing Dark Souls. Only had time to play one heroic thing thus far but didn't manage to clear it unfortunately.
Personally I've been rather bloody-minded and want to complete it all with Priest. I cleared Anub'Rekhan and Maexxna with the Amaz Priest deck (or more specifically a slightly older version of it I've been running) and I threw together an aggro Priest deck and took out Grand Widow Faerlina with that.
I think the heroics are going to be pretty awkward to finish though since I want to use Priest and I don't have Alexstrasza for a quick 45>15. If I have to I guess I'll just use another class but meh, I'd rather not.
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On July 24 2014 19:28 figq wrote:
First, someone said only Heroic Maexxna required custom deck, not popular netdeck - not true, it works with popular Face Huntard perfectly, no need to tune anything, no healing needed for this deck to beat it. Second, I think the difficulty is just fine. It was easy for me, but I have most of the cards in the game; that's not true for the majority of people. When I tried it with underdeveloped accounts that don't even have Earthen Ring Farseer or the dust to craft it, it's actually a challenge. Not to mention, trying to beat everything with strictly basic cards, no commons even. Good luck with that. The difficulty is reasonably adapted to the existing player base of the game.
This line of thinking is mind boggling to me. This is like saying...okay World of Warcraft, an expansion is coming out but we want people who just started yesterday to be able to defeat the raid bosses. People who have been playing for years will find it trivial because they have been playing for years.
The point of new content is to give players something to do. If they don't have cards then there are plenty of ways to go about getting cards so they have plenty of things to do. They can play arena, they can get gold by defeating all the practice AIs, they can complete daily quests, etc. There is no reason to make content for people who have a very small collection because they already have content.
What is there for people who have been playing for 10 months?
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On July 24 2014 22:25 zlefin wrote:
please make a more thorough argument vodka. what you provided was short. if you can beat them entirely with some basic strats and basic cards; that bespeaks of some serious weaknesses.
I don't seem to see the connection between card rarity and easiness? Why is the zoo deck still around then?
What's the problem with my argument, if even the best players need multiple tries I think it's pretty alright.
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It was way easier than I expected it to be. I beat all the bosses except Heroic Maexxna with my ranked Handlock deck, missing two Mountain Giants (which I only use to get to rank 20... I only play arena). I retried the second boss on Heroic a few times but that's about it, Maexxna I countered with a funky Priest deck that I had to revise later on so at least that boss took some effort. Overall I'm disappointed but hopefully they'll make the future bosses more like Maexxna. Honestly though I was hoping for something new for arena players.
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On July 25 2014 03:00 vodkavlaflip wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2014 22:25 zlefin wrote:
please make a more thorough argument vodka. what you provided was short. if you can beat them entirely with some basic strats and basic cards; that bespeaks of some serious weaknesses. I don't seem to see the connection between card rarity and easiness? Why is the zoo deck still around then? What's the problem with my argument, if even the best players need multiple tries I think it's pretty alright.
Looking at the bosses' hero power before choosing a deck helps.
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On July 25 2014 00:35 Eliezar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2014 19:28 figq wrote:
First, someone said only Heroic Maexxna required custom deck, not popular netdeck - not true, it works with popular Face Huntard perfectly, no need to tune anything, no healing needed for this deck to beat it. Second, I think the difficulty is just fine. It was easy for me, but I have most of the cards in the game; that's not true for the majority of people. When I tried it with underdeveloped accounts that don't even have Earthen Ring Farseer or the dust to craft it, it's actually a challenge. Not to mention, trying to beat everything with strictly basic cards, no commons even. Good luck with that. The difficulty is reasonably adapted to the existing player base of the game. This line of thinking is mind boggling to me. This is like saying...okay World of Warcraft, an expansion is coming out but we want people who just started yesterday to be able to defeat the raid bosses. People who have been playing for years will find it trivial because they have been playing for years. The point of new content is to give players something to do. If they don't have cards then there are plenty of ways to go about getting cards so they have plenty of things to do. They can play arena, they can get gold by defeating all the practice AIs, they can complete daily quests, etc. There is no reason to make content for people who have a very small collection because they already have content. What is there for people who have been playing for 10 months?
I don't want to get into the too easy/difficult debate, but blizzard stated that naxxramas is not to be seen as an expansion, but as a fun way to obtain new cards. So basically you buy cards but have to do fun stuff to get them. I for my part had fun doing that.
Making bosses so difficult that you cannot beat them with just basic cards would not work with blizzards intention for naxxramas.
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I have to admit i nearly despaired at the first heroic boss. The normal bosses were probably too easy because you could crush them all with zoo very easily. I even got close to beating the first heroic boss with Zoo, I got Anub down to two health but then i died. I tried like 3 more times with Zoo and gave up and went to sleep because it was already late for EU (couldnt play most of the evening because of the servers)
4/4 with two mana is just too imba so you really have to choose a deck that counters that somehow. I dont normally play druid so i tried my usual ladder decks with sunshine hunter, control warrior and tempo rogue and failed miserably. Its not like you can be brainless and stubborn and expect to win. You really need to have the right deck. The fact that there are so many guides for naxx, shows that its not so easy for everyone.
For ladder its basically worthless to try your own decks if you dont have most of the cards to play with. If you follow a known build you're usually doing much better, so its nice to try and solve the riddle how to beat the heroic bosses by yourself.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On July 25 2014 05:20 shur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2014 00:35 Eliezar wrote:On July 24 2014 19:28 figq wrote:
First, someone said only Heroic Maexxna required custom deck, not popular netdeck - not true, it works with popular Face Huntard perfectly, no need to tune anything, no healing needed for this deck to beat it. Second, I think the difficulty is just fine. It was easy for me, but I have most of the cards in the game; that's not true for the majority of people. When I tried it with underdeveloped accounts that don't even have Earthen Ring Farseer or the dust to craft it, it's actually a challenge. Not to mention, trying to beat everything with strictly basic cards, no commons even. Good luck with that. The difficulty is reasonably adapted to the existing player base of the game. This line of thinking is mind boggling to me. This is like saying...okay World of Warcraft, an expansion is coming out but we want people who just started yesterday to be able to defeat the raid bosses. People who have been playing for years will find it trivial because they have been playing for years. The point of new content is to give players something to do. If they don't have cards then there are plenty of ways to go about getting cards so they have plenty of things to do. They can play arena, they can get gold by defeating all the practice AIs, they can complete daily quests, etc. There is no reason to make content for people who have a very small collection because they already have content. What is there for people who have been playing for 10 months? I don't want to get into the too easy/difficult debate, but blizzard stated that naxxramas is not to be seen as an expansion, but as a fun way to obtain new cards. So basically you buy cards but have to do fun stuff to get them. I for my part had fun doing that. Making bosses so difficult that you cannot beat them with just basic cards would not work with blizzards intention for naxxramas.
Good they have normal mode for that.
Why can't they make heroic basically impossible for us who have been playing for 10 months?
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On July 25 2014 06:55 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2014 05:20 shur wrote:On July 25 2014 00:35 Eliezar wrote:On July 24 2014 19:28 figq wrote:
First, someone said only Heroic Maexxna required custom deck, not popular netdeck - not true, it works with popular Face Huntard perfectly, no need to tune anything, no healing needed for this deck to beat it. Second, I think the difficulty is just fine. It was easy for me, but I have most of the cards in the game; that's not true for the majority of people. When I tried it with underdeveloped accounts that don't even have Earthen Ring Farseer or the dust to craft it, it's actually a challenge. Not to mention, trying to beat everything with strictly basic cards, no commons even. Good luck with that. The difficulty is reasonably adapted to the existing player base of the game. This line of thinking is mind boggling to me. This is like saying...okay World of Warcraft, an expansion is coming out but we want people who just started yesterday to be able to defeat the raid bosses. People who have been playing for years will find it trivial because they have been playing for years. The point of new content is to give players something to do. If they don't have cards then there are plenty of ways to go about getting cards so they have plenty of things to do. They can play arena, they can get gold by defeating all the practice AIs, they can complete daily quests, etc. There is no reason to make content for people who have a very small collection because they already have content. What is there for people who have been playing for 10 months? I don't want to get into the too easy/difficult debate, but blizzard stated that naxxramas is not to be seen as an expansion, but as a fun way to obtain new cards. So basically you buy cards but have to do fun stuff to get them. I for my part had fun doing that. Making bosses so difficult that you cannot beat them with just basic cards would not work with blizzards intention for naxxramas. Good they have normal mode for that. Why can't they make heroic basically impossible for us who have been playing for 10 months?
Yeah, that's probably right. While i would say that Maexxna was kind of ok and it is still the first wing, so maybe the following wings will be more difficult.
[edit] When thinking about blizzards philosophy i don't really see that coming, though 
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I picked "way too easy", although it's just "a bit too easy". I did the first two heroic bosses with handlock on the first try (with a bit of luck), and it took me 2 tries with a well-thought-out mage deck against Maexxna. But what will the players do that don't have many good cards, for example Alexstrasza against Maexxna? For them, Naxxramas truely will be an adventure, with very hard to beat bosses. I wouldn't mind the following wings to become harder but I see why Blizzard doesn't want the heroic mode to be "insanely" hard, because it may be impossible for players that lack the required cards.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On July 25 2014 08:11 AsAr wrote:
I picked "way too easy", although it's just "a bit too easy". I did the first two heroic bosses with handlock on the first try (with a bit of luck), and it took me 2 tries with a well-thought-out mage deck against Maexxna. But what will the players do that don't have many good cards, for example Alexstrasza against Maexxna? For them, Naxxramas truely will be an adventure, with very hard to beat bosses. I wouldn't mind the following wings to become harder but I see why Blizzard doesn't want the heroic mode to be "insanely" hard, because it may be impossible for players that lack the required cards.
But those insanely hard challenges give them a reason to go out and play and get those cards (Plus its not exactly hard to beat Maexxna without Alex since I failed to draw her when I beat her).
Its like arguing people should be able to go into black temple without having higher than 8500 health. The boss gave you a reason to go out and get gear so you could experience the dungeon. Cards are our gear and we should have reasons to want to farm them.
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The Heroics were jokingly easy. If you can beat them with decks the first week you started without paying a dime, they need to be MUCH, MUCH harder.
They shouldn't be easy to the point you clear the entire wing and class challenges with only one loss total. That's sickening. I want to have to actually tweak a deck and lose at least 10+ times before I roflstomp an entire wing.
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On July 24 2014 02:13 KnowNothing wrote:
Heroics clearly aren't "way too easy". I assume people picked that poll option because there isn't a "somewhat too easy" option. The problem imo is the fights aren't that interesting -- you don't have to be particularly creative or clever to come up with lame ways to trick the AI and win. In many cases you know that any normal play by the enemy would kill you easily and it really reduces the satisfaction you get from cheesing it out.
I beat the entire wing (including heroics and class challenges) with literally one loss (To Maxx, before I knew what her ability was) in less than 30 minutes. You can beat the entire thing with literally only commons very easily.
I'd call that absurdly easy. It's not like I'm some TCG God, I'd consider myself just a random decent player.
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EPT
