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On July 26 2014 03:51 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2014 03:29 Wuster wrote:On July 25 2014 22:32 Drazerk wrote:On July 25 2014 22:27 pNRG wrote:
Man I really can't believe how many people are crying "Too easy!"...
This is 20% of Naxx, only the first wing (which is typically the easiest), and it's a card game... Card game expansions are typically just... more cards.
If people are forced to buy into a wing (real $ or gold) and continuously get beat down by the AI unless they have anything but the optimal deck and play at rank 5 + in constructed, they will not be too happy. Like most games, the top-end players are usually quite a small % of the full player base.
Blizz is actually giving us a "raid" in a card game - really don't get all the complaining. 700g is not a lot at all if you do dailies for 40-60g/day (plus 10 more every 3 wins), unless you are dumping gold into packs / losing a lot in Arena. I am comparing the "raid" to other TCG video games like Yugioh forbidden memories or Pokemon the trading card game and those games came out 20 years ago and have better AI than the AI displayed in Naxx making them harder than these heroics. Heroics aren't forced upon anyone they offer no rewards and should be a challenge. I don't understand why people expect to be able to beat heroics so easily when they are supposed to be difficult to everyone. Are we talking about the Pokemon Online TCG? Because when I gave that a spin the 3-star AI would literally forget to attack several times over a match. Or other times do inane things like load up a fresh Pokemon with energy only to immediately swap it for a Pokemon with no energy. Here's a question though. How many people complaining about how easy the heroic encounters spent time watching streams to see their AI / decks / attempts? Because that makes a huuuuge difference and seeing people fail (and a lot of streamers did, blame limited collections or what-not if you like) actually helps you learn a lot about the encounters (so in effect people who did this aren't really one-shotting it no matter what they think). I'm talking about the Gameboy game made in 1998  I didn't look at any decks but the deck I ended up making for it is somewhat different to what other people have been linking but the base elements are the same which is always going to be the case I guess.
You know that the Forbidden Memories AI sometimes bugs out and suicides all their monsters into yours for nothing?
(and also misses lethal)
See: http://www.twitch.tv/xer_91/b/544799599?t=405m0s
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On July 24 2014 22:22 vodkavlaflip wrote:
Oh please, heroic wasn't to easy. Even people like Kolento needed a few tries to beat some. Ofcourse you beat them if you draw the right cards, it's a card game.. Do you rather have a game in which you need to topdeck every turn to win?
The only thing that was disappointing was the length.
If they were harder, you wouldn't be able to beat them in "a few tries", and then the length would no longer be disappointing.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On July 26 2014 04:02 S1eth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2014 03:51 Drazerk wrote:On July 26 2014 03:29 Wuster wrote:On July 25 2014 22:32 Drazerk wrote:On July 25 2014 22:27 pNRG wrote:
Man I really can't believe how many people are crying "Too easy!"...
This is 20% of Naxx, only the first wing (which is typically the easiest), and it's a card game... Card game expansions are typically just... more cards.
If people are forced to buy into a wing (real $ or gold) and continuously get beat down by the AI unless they have anything but the optimal deck and play at rank 5 + in constructed, they will not be too happy. Like most games, the top-end players are usually quite a small % of the full player base.
Blizz is actually giving us a "raid" in a card game - really don't get all the complaining. 700g is not a lot at all if you do dailies for 40-60g/day (plus 10 more every 3 wins), unless you are dumping gold into packs / losing a lot in Arena. I am comparing the "raid" to other TCG video games like Yugioh forbidden memories or Pokemon the trading card game and those games came out 20 years ago and have better AI than the AI displayed in Naxx making them harder than these heroics. Heroics aren't forced upon anyone they offer no rewards and should be a challenge. I don't understand why people expect to be able to beat heroics so easily when they are supposed to be difficult to everyone. Are we talking about the Pokemon Online TCG? Because when I gave that a spin the 3-star AI would literally forget to attack several times over a match. Or other times do inane things like load up a fresh Pokemon with energy only to immediately swap it for a Pokemon with no energy. Here's a question though. How many people complaining about how easy the heroic encounters spent time watching streams to see their AI / decks / attempts? Because that makes a huuuuge difference and seeing people fail (and a lot of streamers did, blame limited collections or what-not if you like) actually helps you learn a lot about the encounters (so in effect people who did this aren't really one-shotting it no matter what they think). I'm talking about the Gameboy game made in 1998 I didn't look at any decks but the deck I ended up making for it is somewhat different to what other people have been linking but the base elements are the same which is always going to be the case I guess. You know that the Forbidden Memories AI sometimes bugs out and suicides all their monsters into yours for nothing? (and also misses lethal) See: http://www.twitch.tv/xer_91/b/544799599?t=405m0s
For the most part it was still much better than the AI displayed in naxx though. Although yeah maybe rose tinted goggles
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Well, i now sit and try to beat Anub Rekan HC with different approches for 2 hours and i start getting really pissed. Thats just stupid RNG try and fail. So anyone saying the HCs are too easy right now seem to overestimate the average player.
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There's probably a bit of exaggerating going on too, because if people get to say how easy something is it makes them look cool.
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Enough now... If you guys think it's funny to have 2x 4/4 in round 2 then have fun. For me, HC is dead so far and they can shove the card back where the sun doesn't shine. I simply don't have the time and patience to try and error 15 bosses for 3 damn hours each and still not see any progress. Still losing big time and it just is plain frustrating, nothing more, nothing less. I go to bed now and dream of this fucking big spider for sure...
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I also felt it was too easy and somewhat unsatisfying after beating the first wing within a couple hours. But then I realized I have all the cards and can make any deck possible. For the majority of players it will prove more difficult and take longer to complete, so the difficulty and weekly release schedule is probably tuned OK.
I worry more about the replay value of the new content. Once the wings and class challenges are done once, what incentive is there to repeat them? Unless they plan on creating new quests relating to these adventures, I don't see much reason to ever play through them again, and this seems a little disappointing.
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I cleared heroic Anub and Maexx both on 1st attempt with the freeze mage deck I already had for ranked. It was pretty disappointing. I played zoo lock into the Grand Widow, and she took me 3 or 4 tries, which was nice, but it was still weird having heroic cleared when the xpac had only been out a few hours. Already waiting on next week on release day. -_-
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On July 26 2014 03:51 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2014 03:29 Wuster wrote:On July 25 2014 22:32 Drazerk wrote:On July 25 2014 22:27 pNRG wrote:
Man I really can't believe how many people are crying "Too easy!"...
This is 20% of Naxx, only the first wing (which is typically the easiest), and it's a card game... Card game expansions are typically just... more cards.
If people are forced to buy into a wing (real $ or gold) and continuously get beat down by the AI unless they have anything but the optimal deck and play at rank 5 + in constructed, they will not be too happy. Like most games, the top-end players are usually quite a small % of the full player base.
Blizz is actually giving us a "raid" in a card game - really don't get all the complaining. 700g is not a lot at all if you do dailies for 40-60g/day (plus 10 more every 3 wins), unless you are dumping gold into packs / losing a lot in Arena. I am comparing the "raid" to other TCG video games like Yugioh forbidden memories or Pokemon the trading card game and those games came out 20 years ago and have better AI than the AI displayed in Naxx making them harder than these heroics. Heroics aren't forced upon anyone they offer no rewards and should be a challenge. I don't understand why people expect to be able to beat heroics so easily when they are supposed to be difficult to everyone. Are we talking about the Pokemon Online TCG? Because when I gave that a spin the 3-star AI would literally forget to attack several times over a match. Or other times do inane things like load up a fresh Pokemon with energy only to immediately swap it for a Pokemon with no energy. Here's a question though. How many people complaining about how easy the heroic encounters spent time watching streams to see their AI / decks / attempts? Because that makes a huuuuge difference and seeing people fail (and a lot of streamers did, blame limited collections or what-not if you like) actually helps you learn a lot about the encounters (so in effect people who did this aren't really one-shotting it no matter what they think). I'm talking about the Gameboy game made in 1998 I didn't look at any decks but the deck I ended up making for it is somewhat different to what other people have been linking but the base elements are the same which is always going to be the case I guess.
Well that explains the 20 years old part, but er, not to state the obvious, but the Gameboy game wasn't a card game. Different mechanics, different AI. But sure, the AI could be improved for sure, it doesn't really make "decisions" it just follows a simple checklist of priorities as far as I can tell.
On July 26 2014 06:08 aed wrote:
I also felt it was too easy and somewhat unsatisfying after beating the first wing within a couple hours. But then I realized I have all the cards and can make any deck possible. For the majority of players it will prove more difficult and take longer to complete, so the difficulty and weekly release schedule is probably tuned OK.
I worry more about the replay value of the new content. Once the wings and class challenges are done once, what incentive is there to repeat them? Unless they plan on creating new quests relating to these adventures, I don't see much reason to ever play through them again, and this seems a little disappointing.
I think this is a valid concern, it's a problem inherent to PvE content (it's static) and Hearthstone is at it's heart about playing other people. But Adventures were something people wanted so they delivered it, though the biggest impact will still end up with using the new cards in ladder and arena. There's a disconnect between the people who want PvE and that replay paradign, so consider this an experiment in seeing if they can appease PvE players in what's fundamentally a PvP game.
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Way too easy, hopefully next wing is going to be a bit harder 
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Osaka27140 Posts
I didn't think it was easy, just too short. I agree with someone else who posted that there should be a reward (golden cards?) for beating all the heroics with every character. That would give me a sense of fulfillment, and of more value.
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I don't see how it's too easy...Anub summons a 4/4 for 2 mana every turn. How do you even deal with that let alone all the other things he can throw at you?
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On July 25 2014 21:03 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2014 21:00 figq wrote:
I watched Kripp with his F2P account struggle for hours on the Heroic Maexxna. With constant deck refinement, armed with his cunning intelligence, and all the amazing experience he has gained in HS, he was definitely challenged (and tired in the end).
No, a player with one week of HS can't beat it. A player with a lot of experience and understanding of the game can beat it using F2P deck for some hours of trial and error. That's how it is, and that sounds difficult enough. So we have to make ourselves marginally weaker for it to be difficult? Heroics shouldn't be content for new players they should be content for people who have played for 8+ months and have every card so Blizzard can design bosses that are truly difficult. I was just responding to someone who claimed everything can be done very quickly by someone with under 1 week of playing HS. Which is obviously not true if it takes an experienced player a lot of time and editions to do it with a beginner's collection.
I don't think what you want is feasible, because it will be a very task-force demanding content that serves a tiny portion of the player base. That's inefficient development resource spending.
P.S. Gotta admit I've never played a raid in WoW, and I'm guessing that difficulty comparison is what motivates people to be so angry with heroics in HS.
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Canada1788 Posts
On July 26 2014 11:17 Roe wrote:
I don't see how it's too easy...Anub summons a 4/4 for 2 mana every turn. How do you even deal with that let alone all the other things he can throw at you?
I innervated a Yeti on turn 1. He played some random trash minion instead of his hero power on turn 2.. Then he proceeded to play the taunt minion that draws a card from my deck onto the field on turn 3. I killed it and got an 8/8 or something stupid. Needless to say easiest victory of my life on first attempt without playing anything above a common.
The AI is retarded.
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Well, you guys must be lucky... Today i tried Faerlina with this http://www.liquidhearth.com/forum/general-strategy/462872-heroic-first-wing-no-rares-used-decklist guide.
So another 2 hours gone. This just relies so heavily on your starting hand and the right card draw. This just doesn't feel like playing for me anymore, it feels like gambling or playing lottery and hoping for the best. This is what i call bullshit design, because it has nothing to do with skill only with luck to get the right cards in your hand. Sorry, i go play something else now, this simply sucks.
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Hah, I love OP.
"Don't vote unless you have beaten everything"
Well, of course people who have already beaten everything think it was too easy. How about asking everyone who has played to vote?
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On July 25 2014 21:03 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2014 21:00 figq wrote:
I watched Kripp with his F2P account struggle for hours on the Heroic Maexxna. With constant deck refinement, armed with his cunning intelligence, and all the amazing experience he has gained in HS, he was definitely challenged (and tired in the end).
No, a player with one week of HS can't beat it. A player with a lot of experience and understanding of the game can beat it using F2P deck for some hours of trial and error. That's how it is, and that sounds difficult enough. So we have to make ourselves marginally weaker for it to be difficult? Heroics shouldn't be content for new players they should be content for people who have played for 8+ months and have every card so Blizzard can design bosses that are truly difficult.
You mean blizzard should design bosses for people who have paid $texas for the game? I guess that makes sense. Let's be more honest then and not call it "heroic", but "Pay to Win" difficulty.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On July 26 2014 17:04 litlnoobs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2014 21:03 Drazerk wrote:On July 25 2014 21:00 figq wrote:
I watched Kripp with his F2P account struggle for hours on the Heroic Maexxna. With constant deck refinement, armed with his cunning intelligence, and all the amazing experience he has gained in HS, he was definitely challenged (and tired in the end).
No, a player with one week of HS can't beat it. A player with a lot of experience and understanding of the game can beat it using F2P deck for some hours of trial and error. That's how it is, and that sounds difficult enough. So we have to make ourselves marginally weaker for it to be difficult? Heroics shouldn't be content for new players they should be content for people who have played for 8+ months and have every card so Blizzard can design bosses that are truly difficult. You mean blizzard should design bosses for people who have paid $texas for the game? I guess that makes sense. Let's be more honest then and not call it "heroic", but "Pay to Win" difficulty.
I have never spent a single $ on this game and I have every card bar some trash legendaries I don't care about. Grinding cards in this game is not difficult. Just abuse rank 20 if you really struggle at arena and you should have most cards after a few months even if you never step a foot in arena like me.
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On July 26 2014 21:19 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2014 17:04 litlnoobs wrote:On July 25 2014 21:03 Drazerk wrote:On July 25 2014 21:00 figq wrote:
I watched Kripp with his F2P account struggle for hours on the Heroic Maexxna. With constant deck refinement, armed with his cunning intelligence, and all the amazing experience he has gained in HS, he was definitely challenged (and tired in the end).
No, a player with one week of HS can't beat it. A player with a lot of experience and understanding of the game can beat it using F2P deck for some hours of trial and error. That's how it is, and that sounds difficult enough. So we have to make ourselves marginally weaker for it to be difficult? Heroics shouldn't be content for new players they should be content for people who have played for 8+ months and have every card so Blizzard can design bosses that are truly difficult. You mean blizzard should design bosses for people who have paid $texas for the game? I guess that makes sense. Let's be more honest then and not call it "heroic", but "Pay to Win" difficulty. I have never spent a single $ on this game and I have every card bar some trash legendaries I don't care about. Grinding cards in this game is not difficult. Just abuse rank 20 if you really struggle at arena and you should have most cards after a few months even if you never step a foot in arena like me. Enjoy your <1$/h salary doing that. Let's face it, if you don't enjoy arena, there is no cheap way to get good cards. Grinding hundred of hours is not a solution for sane people.
Anyway, there's no way to make a fulfilling single player experience in a card game unless you program some decent AI, a thing Blizzard has never done in the past.
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Finally someone fixed the topic title, that was annoying to see.
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EPT
