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Hi everyone,
it was clear to everyone that Naxxramas will be a joke (difficulty wise) when they announced that "even veteran players will have a hard time". Maexxna heroic is the only boss which you probably can't defeat with a current meta ladder deck. Even this assumption could be wrong, because there could be Freeze Mages out there running double Earthen Ring Farseer and double Ice Barrier.
Do you think the difficulty will increase with each wing? Maybe Saphiron and KelThuzad will be extra difficult and the rest on par with the Arachnid Quarters? Do you even think the difficulty needs a raise? I am close to a point where I might not grind the remaining gold for the last two sections. Having a couple cards does not make or break your ranking and so far the encounters where kinda boring. I am trying to find out, if I am alone with this feeling.
Please vote only if you have already beaten all encounters in all modes/difficulties.
Poll: How did you find the overall difficulty of the Arachnid QuarterEverything is where it should be (305) 59% Heroics way too easy (178) 34% Heroics way too hard (36) 7% 519 total votes Your vote: How did you find the overall difficulty of the Arachnid Quarter (Vote): Everything is where it should be
(Vote): Heroics way too hard
(Vote): Heroics way too easy
(Please excuse my horrible orthography and grammar, I am no native speaker.)
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Hmm well I for one tested out my "clear b**lsh****ness" mage spells deck that has very low chances to win in an attempt to see if any of the normal bosses were easy enough to beat with even the most random deck. Well in short no, maybe it was my bad luck for draws, but I didn't get to kill Rekan with that deck. Though I kind of take it that for most decks it should be a decent trial. I managed to beat him pretty easy with Reynad's old Tryhard warrior deck pretty easy.
I hope too that the next ones will be harder. I went in hoping to complete it as a challenging puzzle because the bosses had custom cards, but in that regard it was a letdown. Let's hope the next ones will be more hard.
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On July 24 2014 01:33 blackguard4 wrote:
Hmm well I for one tested out my "clear b**lsh****ness" mage spells deck that has very low chances to win in an attempt to see if any of the normal bosses were easy enough to beat with even the most random deck. Well in short no, maybe it was my bad luck for draws, but I didn't get to kill Rekan with that deck. Though I kind of take it that for most decks it should be a decent trial. I managed to beat him pretty easy with Reynad's old Tryhard warrior deck pretty easy.
I hope too that the next ones will be harder. I went in hoping to complete it as a challenging puzzle because the bosses had custom cards, but in that regard it was a letdown. Let's hope the next ones will be more hard.
Exactly my thoughts. Two friends of mine which play basically no hearthstone at all stomped through all encounters and all modes with free cards in under an hour. To be honest, those guys are not your average noob, but highly intelligent people and experienced card players, but they have no clue about the ins and outs of Hearthstone. They play Hearthstone less than once a month. Just I write these lines, another friend whispered me that he beat all the modes using the same deck in all encounters: an almost F2P trap-heavy mid-range hunter deck. He didn't even consider making another deck because he stomped through all of it. If these guys can beat the encounters in half an hour, everybody can. Should everybody be able to beat the encounters? Yes, of course, but they should either make the process a bit longer/more difficult or more entertaining or even provide replay value. You are basically buying a bunch of cards which you will probably only sparsely use and half an hour of gameplay for 7 bucks. That is overpriced even by Blizzard's standards.
Second thought: I hoped to see some interesting mechanics which made the games interesting, challenging and somewhat different.
Remember back to the tutorial where you had to kill a special card, before you could damage the hero. Maexxna was the only encounter out of the 8 we got which had something like that. Imagine the possibilities with such simple things as a 0 mana hero power every turn.
How easy would it be to add off-map doodads which would actually influence the game, like catapults firing from the distance which would poison the battlefield, reducing the maximum amount of minions you could play or otherwise they'd take damage every turn. Or a boss which gains 5 armor at the end of every turn, making him a race to fatigue. Or special blow-out scenarios where both players start with 9 cards in hand and 10 mana crystals. Or you would have to defeat two enemies at once, both having 20 hp and both play a card from a 10 mana pool every turn to the same playing field. The possibilities are endless and they didn't even scrape the possibilities they exhibited in their own tutorial.
It is so frustrating from a game designer's and from a player's perspective. That they didn't include anything of the sorts gives me little hope that there will be anything like that in the upcoming encounters because they would have shown at least a little bit of awesome mechanics to get people hooked, if they had some.
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its AI. How do you expect it to be hard?
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On July 24 2014 01:49 Emnjay808 wrote:
its AI. How do you expect it to be hard?
By adding unusual mechanics to the playing field which you have to cope with. It will make the games harder and more entertaining because you have to think totally different. For example, imagine a bomb card at the edge of the playing field which is 0/10. You will have to kill it within 4 turns or else you will take 20 damage to the face. A fresh bomb card will spawn after every 4 turns.
This simple thing alone will require you to make interesting decisions if you clear the board, attack face, or deal damage to the bomb card. There is countless things possible. Check out my post above to get even more examples. Wouldn't you agree that my rough ideas would give the encounters a more interesting and more challenging twist than what is currently in place?
Also, the class challenges. Why not make you beat the boss in a specific way, for example without taking damage or without using spells or with capped mana-max of 5 or with 10 locked-in cards which you have to use or whatever. Instead, you just get a random deck which has enough synergies that everybody who is not completely unlucky can beat the boss on the first try and be done with it. <end rant>
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If its too easy, put self imposed rules in, such as no legionaries, no spells, only minions with 2 words in them, only minions who are the colour green or some kind of gimmick; so many fun decks to try out. The naxx bosses can be difficult, but only if you want them to be... or your not good at the game. 
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you know, just a simple thing such as giving the bosses 15-20 armor instead of 15 extra max hp woulda gone a long way in making them more difficult for anyone with access to Alexstrasza. Or making them immune to it.
Giving Maexxna Power of the Wild or Bloodlust or Savage Roar (so you can't just heal and sit back and wait with 2x Earthen Ring Farseer). Making the first heroic guy spawn a 3/2 guy for 0 mana every turn instead of a 4/4 for 2 mana (so his early turns are more consistent) and giving him better cards than Shadowbolt. Helping the 2nd heroic challenge not kill itself by the dumbest use of Inner Fire ever. Giving the AI some better cards in general really (maybe even the new Druid card or other hard board clear).
While I did have fun putting together a specific deck for Maexxna, the other stuff wasn't much fun at all. Also the server downtime/heavy lag after release didn't help either.
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Heroics clearly aren't "way too easy". I assume people picked that poll option because there isn't a "somewhat too easy" option. The problem imo is the fights aren't that interesting -- you don't have to be particularly creative or clever to come up with lame ways to trick the AI and win. In many cases you know that any normal play by the enemy would kill you easily and it really reduces the satisfaction you get from cheesing it out.
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The fun of heroics is trying out different stuff.
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On July 24 2014 02:13 KnowNothing wrote:
Heroics clearly aren't "way too easy". I assume people picked that poll option because there isn't a "somewhat too easy" option.
qft
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I feel like I have an understanding of most of the cards in the game. I have a general idea what to expect from class cards. I would consider myself competent but I don't consider myself good. I think I rarely make the most cost effective play except when I am extremely limited in play choices. All that being said. I cleared the first wing, including heroics, all last night. I think I spent a total or 3-5 hours on hearthstone and I played a few play mode matches.
I think it's very hard to balance but I think the difficulty was in a good spot. I thought the bosses fights were pretty fun but I meta'd them pretty hard, especially the last one.
I think ultimately we need to talk about why it was easy. What is the root of the problem? It's the AI, the AI is too easy to abuse. That might be fine on the normal mode but the Heroic should not be like that. I think they should have AI difficulty levels and then they don't have to change their OP mechanics like the 4/4 for 2, and 1 for X amt of damage (that isn't random but rather targeted.. cheating AI...//QQ)
For reference. I do not have Alexstrazza and I typically am lvl 14-16 at the end of seasons.
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It's still only the first wing! Clearing the arachnid quarter was generally considered the easiest! I'm sure there will be some more difficult challenges in the later wings.
Anyway, I found the difficulty to be pretty good. A custom deck was needed for maexna which is to be expected from the harder bosses.
The AI was still pretty bad. I got shadow flamed for 1 at one point which was a pretty big facepalm.
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United Kingdom38205 Posts
Everything seems straightforward till HC Maexxna where it feels like you actually need to tailor your deck a bit rather than just pick one vaguely suited.
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I thought the content was really fun, but much too brief. The entire adventure would take more time and feel more memorable if we got it all at once, but since they are releasing it in such short pieces it's much less interesting.
Heroics are challenging though, so that's good! Some people with god-like decks (or zoo...) probably breezed through them but that's to be expected. You only have to beat each one once so 12 losses and a win, is a win.
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Class challenges was way too easy. I passed in the first attempt with no problem at all.
Heroic mode seems hard, but just needs very specific decks to make things easier.
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The wing only took 1-2 hours to complete. When I think of other games with similar style "challenges," namely scrolls, Naxxramas has been much, much easier so far. It's pretty disappointing to think that if they released all the wings at once, a lot of players would have completed the adventure within a day.
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On July 24 2014 04:22 rd wrote:
The wing only took 1-2 hours to complete. When I think of other games with similar style "challenges," namely scrolls, Naxxramas has been much, much easier so far. It's pretty disappointing to think that if they released all the wings at once, a lot of players would have completed the adventure within a day.
not within a day, within 5 hours :/
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On July 24 2014 04:26 Fi0na wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2014 04:22 rd wrote:
The wing only took 1-2 hours to complete. When I think of other games with similar style "challenges," namely scrolls, Naxxramas has been much, much easier so far. It's pretty disappointing to think that if they released all the wings at once, a lot of players would have completed the adventure within a day. not within a day, within 5 hours :/
5 hours of gameplay is a little bit more than a 'day' for most people. Especially the kind of people Hearthstone is aimed at.
On July 24 2014 01:58 Qwicker wrote:If its too easy, put self imposed rules in, such as no legionaries, no spells, only minions with 2 words in them, only minions who are the colour green or some kind of gimmick; so many fun decks to try out. The naxx bosses can be difficult, but only if you want them to be... or your not good at the game.
This. I have no idea why they didn't add Achievements into this game.
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Does it mean someone is just really bad if they can't seem to beat the wing? My friend gave up after complaining about Maexxna for 45 minutes.
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On July 24 2014 04:31 Hurricane Sponge wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2014 04:26 Fi0na wrote:On July 24 2014 04:22 rd wrote:
The wing only took 1-2 hours to complete. When I think of other games with similar style "challenges," namely scrolls, Naxxramas has been much, much easier so far. It's pretty disappointing to think that if they released all the wings at once, a lot of players would have completed the adventure within a day. not within a day, within 5 hours :/ 5 hours of gameplay is a little bit more than a 'day' for most people. Especially the kind of people Hearthstone is aimed at. Show nested quote +On July 24 2014 01:58 Qwicker wrote:If its too easy, put self imposed rules in, such as no legionaries, no spells, only minions with 2 words in them, only minions who are the colour green or some kind of gimmick; so many fun decks to try out. The naxx bosses can be difficult, but only if you want them to be... or your not good at the game. This. I have no idea why they didn't add Achievements into this game.
There are achievements. There just aren't many, and aren't really in depth achievements.
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It's the first wing and it was just fine. It'll get harder when we get further in, just like it would in wow. I thought the Maexxna was pretty cool and I've had fun playing through what they've shown so far.
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On July 24 2014 04:37 Came Norrection wrote:
Does it mean someone is just really bad if they can't seem to beat the wing? My friend gave up after complaining about Maexxna for 45 minutes.
A large part of it is using the correct deck. It's more about deck-building than flawless play.
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On July 24 2014 01:49 Emnjay808 wrote:
its AI. How do you expect it to be hard?
in chess nobody is able to beat AI
but of course this is hardly comparable because the AI cant know what deck you are playing.
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I made this regarding the AI difficulty discussion
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qtiFhVR.png)
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I was expecting it to be harder, but I'm not exactly disappointed. I thought the content was still really cool and fun.
The AI could do with some further improvement certainly - which would, in turn, increase the difficulty.
Also they're all harder, especially the last one, when you don't abuse Alexstraza. In fact, I think they really should change 45 health to 30 health and 15 armor because of that.
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No, I don't think so.
The normal modes seem designed so that even players who are fairly new and running starter/budget decks can complete them without too much frustration--which of course means more experienced players with top tier decks will roll them, but that's fine.
The heroic modes are fun little puzzles I thought. I died the first time I faced heroic Maexnna, figured out how to beat her and went back and tweaked my deck, then won. Honestly, I think thats all you can ask for in an ai enemy, something that will force you play differently than usual and make tweaks to your deck to do it.
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First wing, but it was quite lack luster.
I didnt really try and you can kinda just brute force your way through the bosses didnt read up on them or plan.
Just kinda choose a deck oh it didnt work, this will 100% type of thing.
If you try and research a little youll one shot easy.
If you dont care at all youll get through it after losing to the boss atleast once
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I have never played zoo, just put the deck together and defeated the first two on heroic on the first try with it.
Last boss took 5 attempts, until I figured out that priest would work best for me and absolutely trashed the spider on the first priest try, even finishing at full life.
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On July 24 2014 05:50 MCXD wrote:
I was expecting it to be harder, but I'm not exactly disappointed. I thought the content was still really cool and fun.
The AI could do with some further improvement certainly - which would, in turn, increase the difficulty.
Also they're all harder, especially the last one, when you don't abuse Alexstraza. In fact, I think they really should change 45 health to 30 health and 15 armor because of that.
Some of the datamine sound files seem to imply that certain cards don't work* (like Equality), either that or Kel'Thuzad just flames you when you use them.
So if it's former case, then I would like to seem them add Alexstrasza to that list.
* potentially only against certain encounters since I played Equality fine on normal Maexxna and didn't get en emote or anything.
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I assume people picked that poll option because there isn't a "somewhat too easy" option.
Also to show off 
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On July 24 2014 06:15 Wuster wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2014 05:50 MCXD wrote:
I was expecting it to be harder, but I'm not exactly disappointed. I thought the content was still really cool and fun.
The AI could do with some further improvement certainly - which would, in turn, increase the difficulty.
Also they're all harder, especially the last one, when you don't abuse Alexstraza. In fact, I think they really should change 45 health to 30 health and 15 armor because of that. Some of the datamine sound files seem to imply that certain cards don't work* (like Equality), either that or Kel'Thuzad just flames you when you use them. So if it's former case, then I would like to seem them add Alexstrasza to that list. * potentially only against certain encounters since I played Equality fine on normal Maexxna and didn't get en emote or anything.
I beleive its in the 4 horseman fight. There is also a sound file for Doomsayer, but not Mass Dispel, which is the best imo because you can double Mind Blast the following turn, but you can't do that with paladin and you also have to clear the 3 1/1 horseman, but I think that people should just not use Alexstrasza if they find it too easy.
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I struggled pretty hard with heroic anub'rekhan. Easily an hour of attempts, probably more. I finally did it with a sort of crummy freeze mage deck (I don't have Alexstrasza) and good draws. The second boss wasn't too bad, took a few times but I eventually got a fast enough start with my zoo deck to run her over. Havent figured out how I'm gonna beat Maexxna on heroic without Alexstrasza yet.
It's definitely harder than I was expecting it to be. Maexxna is a genuinely interesting encounter to play through. If it's too hard, people with little experience or small card collections won't be able to get through them, and there are a lot more of them in blizzard's customer base. I wouldn't mind if normal mode was slightly harder though.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
Me and Hassy had a skype call and we had beaten all the normal content + class challenges in 30 minutes according to the call length even with the terrible lag we experienced. Heroics took us a little longer but they went down once card draws went our way.
I guess it comes down to your deck collection at the end of your day which is kind of disappointing.
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Havent figured out how I'm gonna beat Maexxna on heroic without Alexstrasza yet.
Pally is your friend. Bounce a few Peacekeepers to make sure her board is just 1 attack minions, then alternate between dropping healing minions and going for the face with weapons and charge.
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Everything's too easy.
Regular bosses need to be a lot harder, and heroics should be a bit harder.
I'm hoping by the final wing, regular bosses will be the level of this wing's heroic, and heroic bosses will be brutal.
On July 24 2014 02:07 Fi0na wrote:
you know, just a simple thing such as giving the bosses 15-20 armor instead of 15 extra max hp woulda gone a long way in making them more difficult for anyone with access to Alexstrasza. Or making them immune to it.
Giving Maexxna Power of the Wild or Bloodlust or Savage Roar (so you can't just heal and sit back and wait with 2x Earthen Ring Farseer). Making the first heroic guy spawn a 3/2 guy for 0 mana every turn instead of a 4/4 for 2 mana (so his early turns are more consistent) and giving him better cards than Shadowbolt. Helping the 2nd heroic challenge not kill itself by the dumbest use of Inner Fire ever. Giving the AI some better cards in general really (maybe even the new Druid card or other hard board clear).
While I did have fun putting together a specific deck for Maexxna, the other stuff wasn't much fun at all. Also the server downtime/heavy lag after release didn't help either.
I completely agree with bosses getting 15 - 20 armor instead of 15 extra hp, but even without Alexstraza they first two are too easy.
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On July 24 2014 06:52 Drazerk wrote:
Me and Hassy had a skype call and we had beaten all the normal content + class challenges in 30 minutes according to the call length even with the terrible lag we experienced. Heroics took us a little longer but they went down once card draws went our way.
I guess it comes down to your deck collection at the end of your day which is kind of disappointing.
yes and no. they can't make normal content "hard" in any way if they plan to attract new players. these guys will turn towards the adventures for easy access to cards, before they go to ladder. if you needed to pay for the content + grind cards people will scream "ripoff".
for heroics: i don't know if they're too easy. you do have to put *some* thought into it or else they do run you over. it's easy once you got the idea, but that's kind of the challenge. plus: you have to design bosses around Zoo and Freeze Mage which are among the top decks. Maexxna did a fine job in this, but it sounds kinda hard to regularly do it
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Maex Heroic is surprisingly easy once you figure out how to cheek it. Freeze Mage with Voodoo Doctor and ERF, and I burned through all 45 health with no Alex to help (I have her, just didn't draw her). Charge creatures, and strategically leaving certain minions alive will make it all trivial. The fight is mind-blowingly easy once you know the strategy.
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Heroic can be difficult if you're stubborn with your decks. But if you make the right deck it's really easy to beat them I think.
I feel like the difficulty could be increased a bit, and I'm hoping the next few wings are. Even if they aren't, I'll still enjoy them.
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I hope the other Wings have more challenges, otherwise the 700 gold are way to much for this small adventure
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I found it quite easy, but that was OK. What I found most disappointing was how short the whole thing was.
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I thought it was fine. Got through normal with my druid and zoo deck. Class challenges were a bit on easy side, especially rogue one since it gives you battlecry minions which have no harm in being webbed.
Heroic is fine too, I like how you have to figure each boss out and build a deck around them. Even then you need a good card draw to beat them. Took a few attempts with a Hunter trap deck with charges and heals before I finally beat Maexnna A nice puzzle.
I understand the want for having them be a little bit more difficult but I think it would be bad to make it impossible without paid elite decks. I do think it should get progressively harder each wing and I expect it to.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On July 24 2014 08:26 DragonGuard wrote:
I thought it was fine. Got through normal with my druid and zoo deck. Class challenges were a bit on easy side, especially rogue one since it gives you battlecry minions which have no harm in being webbed.
Heroic is fine too, I like how you have to figure each boss out and build a deck around them. Even then you need a good card draw to beat them. Took a few attempts with a Hunter trap deck with charges and heals before I finally beat Maexnna A nice puzzle.
I understand the want for having them be a little bit more difficult but I think it would be bad to make it impossible without paid elite decks. I do think it should get progressively harder each wing and I expect it to.
Well having a boss to go for and wanting to get gear so you can do said boss is kind of the point of raiding in the first place isn't it? Same thing with the cards it gives you a reason to want to grind out your cards.
Since there is no actual rewards from the heroics you can make them as difficult as you want in my opinion. Its not hard for a F2P user to get every card after 4-5 months of playing (less if they actually do arena unlike me) so its not like its an impossible task anyway and they aren't missing out on anything by not killing these bosses.
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I would rather say that the first wing was the easyest. The next ones will be harder. On Hearthpwn.com I have seen the bosses and their heroic variations. Without spoiling... I can tell you that the final wing is far beyond unfair.. Incredible Hero Abilities
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Difficulty is fine imo.
Keep in mind blizzard is catering hard to casuals now, hence the big "DON'T BE SAD WHEN YOU LOSE CAUSE IT'S REALLY HARD", warning sign for the heroic ones. Not adding a prize for winning heroics makes it so the casuals don't feel left out when they can't beat it.
It was fun. The normal bosses are easy, and the heroics (at first glance) seem hard. AI could be better, but with a game like hearthstone getting a good AI would be really difficult. I wish there was a prize so replayability was there, but that might make it too easy to grind for gold/dust, upsetting the dynamic blizzard has.
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On July 24 2014 09:01 killa_robot wrote:
Difficulty is fine imo.
Keep in mind blizzard is catering hard to casuals now, hence the big "DON'T BE SAD WHEN YOU LOSE CAUSE IT'S REALLY HARD", warning sign for the heroic ones. Not adding a prize for winning heroics makes it so the casuals don't feel left out when they can't beat it.
It was fun. The normal bosses are easy, and the heroics (at first glance) seem hard. AI could be better, but with a game like hearthstone getting a good AI would be really difficult. I wish there was a prize so replayability was there, but that might make it too easy to grind for gold/dust, upsetting the dynamic blizzard has.
There is a reward for killing heroics; complete all of them (aka after the fifth wing is released) and you get an exclusive card back.
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On July 24 2014 09:01 killa_robot wrote:
Difficulty is fine imo.
Keep in mind blizzard is catering hard to casuals now, hence the big "DON'T BE SAD WHEN YOU LOSE CAUSE IT'S REALLY HARD", warning sign for the heroic ones. Not adding a prize for winning heroics makes it so the casuals don't feel left out when they can't beat it.
It was fun. The normal bosses are easy, and the heroics (at first glance) seem hard. AI could be better, but with a game like hearthstone getting a good AI would be really difficult. I wish there was a prize so replayability was there, but that might make it too easy to grind for gold/dust, upsetting the dynamic blizzard has.
Just make the one-time rewards, like dust or gold. Why not give 100g reward if you beat all bosses on heroic with all classes. That way you can earn a bit of the entry-fee back if you are really dedicated to the singleplayer content. Also, it would spark a discussion about how to beat all the heroics with different classes. Sure, everybody has found a way or two to beat Maexxna, but with every single class the challenge is upped quite a bit.
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The entire thing took an hour from beginning to end.
Way too easy. I was expecting at least 5 hours of gameplay.
Against Maexxna you literally don't need to do anything but fill the deck with 1-3 drops(greater emphasis on 1 and 2) with battlecries and it takes a very bad draw to lose.
On July 24 2014 08:51 Alcazar991 wrote:
I would rather say that the first wing was the easyest. The next ones will be harder. On Hearthpwn.com I have seen the bosses and their heroic variations. Without spoiling... I can tell you that the final wing is far beyond unfair.. Incredible Hero Abilities
Frost Breath is the only one that seems insane but I'm not sure what the conditions to use it are.
Kel'Thusad's, for example, seems completely useless vs a decent facerush deck.
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OP bosses with dumb AI.
It seems that Blizzard tweaked the AI for naxx. Now the AI tries to swarm board and hit face whenever possible. As long as the AI only plays one style, it's very easy to exploit its weakness.
Maexxna plays a minion based deck (with just 2 spell cards). Most of the time it'll swarm the board with lots of 1/2 spiders, a few 1/4 gargoyle, several 0/2 nerubian egg, 2 1/1 web spinner, 2 5/5 rouge minion, 2 4/6 spectral knight, 2 sea giant, 2 3/5 taunt, 2 acidic swamp ooze, 2 dire wolf alpha. And every turn, it'll autocast its hero power first before playing cards. It's so predictable now that I haven't lost to it today and have beaten it with priest/mage/hunter/warlock decks. I'm just trying to defeat it with all classes now.
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On July 24 2014 01:49 Emnjay808 wrote:
its AI. How do you expect it to be hard?
Have you ever played a chess program?
But beyond that...I would think they could make a challenging AI when it can hero power 4/4 minions...
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I really wish that the rewards would have been 1 card for defeating all of normal and 1 card for defeating each of the heroic bosses. I didn't read spoilers and cruised through to the final heroic where I tried about 4 different things before I got through.
I feel like the rest of the wings are just going to be paying 700 gold for a handful of new cards and a 1 time AI smashing...
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On July 24 2014 08:26 DragonGuard wrote:
I thought it was fine. Got through normal with my druid and zoo deck. Class challenges were a bit on easy side, especially rogue one since it gives you battlecry minions which have no harm in being webbed.
Heroic is fine too, I like how you have to figure each boss out and build a deck around them. Even then you need a good card draw to beat them. Took a few attempts with a Hunter trap deck with charges and heals before I finally beat Maexnna A nice puzzle.
I understand the want for having them be a little bit more difficult but I think it would be bad to make it impossible without paid elite decks. I do think it should get progressively harder each wing and I expect it to.
The thing is...you don't need paid elite decks to get close to this.
The only one that was challenging was the final heroic and I did it with mostly free hunter cards.
The other thing that is somewhat bad is that its both not challenging AND its just one play thru and you are done never needing to click it again. Really its just a card piñata.
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I think it the difficulty is where it should be. I would guess that the average player would find challenge out of it, especially if they didn't have a large selection of cards. Of course players of high skill levels will find it easy, but I don't think it should be tuned specifically to them anyways.
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I found it too easy; beating all the heroics with the same deck (which is probably only worth level 16 on ladder, maybe less) made it feel kinda easy. Didn't have to bother meta'ing to adjust to each one. In fact I think I won first try on the last two, with a deck not even adjusted for them. Card selection is a fair mix of blues, from a month or two of playing in arena and whatever cards I happened to get from the packs from that (no purchases, just quest gold).
May try to see how hard it is to beat the heroics using only free cards, or only free cards + commons.
Smarter ai would be good, ai, particularly for maexna is kinda dumb. Admittedly people who post on teamliquid aren't average; but having some difficulty for us would be good.
Of course, the more ai is made smart and fun to play vs, the less people play against humans, which makes it harder to maintain a large player population and get games easily.
Was there supposed to be a bonus for beating all the heroics? I didn't see one.
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3 bosses was not that much... I expected more! I struggled some with the Heroic ones though, because I tried my normal control decks first. If you dont look for guides on the internet, I think its pretty challenging to beat the heroic ones, should take at least one hour of screaming at the OP heropowers they have, and changing decks around.
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Take that as you will, but maybe at least 1 boss has some sort of Anti-Alextrasza measure.
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I didn't mind that the heroic bosses weren't excruciatingly hard. They did require some thought, especially Maexxna. What I was disappointed in was the class challenges. The decks were utterly forgettable. Murloc Tidecaller? Why? I would have liked the decks to have some clear theme. It's alright if they're bad, as long as they're bad in an interesting way.
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The class challenges did seem quite forgettable. Having a fixed deck rather than one you create is rather bland, and when the decks were optimized to beat the opposing deck, it made it just seem silly.
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Maybe im the only one here but...I really dont care about the difficulty. I just want to unlock the new cards for constructed ranked. The whole AI experience I dont get. Its not even an experience for me. Its just something thats neccessary to get the cards. That being said I completed everything included Heroic on the 1st try within I would say 45min. By just reading the hero powers beforehand. Easy and cheating gimmicky bosses as expected. I really dont care if they just gave me the cards without adventure. I'm just happy we got new cards. But this is coming from a legendary ranked player. So I guess casuals might have a blast with the adventures getting challenged and all. With maybe only basic cards unlocked? I personally dont see how its fun though.....
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I think the difficulty is almost directly correlated to how complete your collection is, along with your willingness to change your deck. While faerlina can be beaten with a zoo deck fairly consistently, maexxna will trash most constructed decks apart from freeze mage with a good draw, and if anubrekhan coin hero powers it can be difficult as well.
I don't think they made naxx too easy, especially for the first wing. I'd expect the next wings to be much harder.
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First, someone said only Heroic Maexxna required custom deck, not popular netdeck - not true, it works with popular Face Huntard perfectly, no need to tune anything, no healing needed for this deck to beat it. Second, I think the difficulty is just fine. It was easy for me, but I have most of the cards in the game; that's not true for the majority of people. When I tried it with underdeveloped accounts that don't even have Earthen Ring Farseer or the dust to craft it, it's actually a challenge. Not to mention, trying to beat everything with strictly basic cards, no commons even. Good luck with that. The difficulty is reasonably adapted to the existing player base of the game.
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On July 24 2014 19:28 figq wrote:
First, someone said only Heroic Maexxna required custom deck, not popular netdeck - not true, it works with popular Face Huntard perfectly, no need to tune anything, no healing needed for this deck to beat it. Second, I think the difficulty is just fine. It was easy for me, but I have most of the cards in the game; that's not true for the majority of people. When I tried it with underdeveloped accounts that don't even have Earthen Ring Farseer or the dust to craft it, it's actually a challenge. Not to mention, trying to beat everything with strictly basic cards, no commons even. Good luck with that. The difficulty is reasonably adapted to the existing player base of the game.
working on winning heroic with basic only right now, no commons or rarer. beat anub on first try.
going to others now; beating all of them with basics only should be easy, the hard part would be doing them all with just one deck.
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On July 24 2014 02:34 Azuzu wrote:
It's still only the first wing! Clearing the arachnid quarter was generally considered the easiest! I'm sure there will be some more difficult challenges in the later wings.
Anyway, I found the difficulty to be pretty good. A custom deck was needed for maexna which is to be expected from the harder bosses.
The AI was still pretty bad. I got shadow flamed for 1 at one point which was a pretty big facepalm.
Most glaring error I remember as well. Had a 4/4 on the board and all my creatures were 3 and 4 health....
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Oh please, heroic wasn't to easy. Even people like Kolento needed a few tries to beat some. Ofcourse you beat them if you draw the right cards, it's a card game.. Do you rather have a game in which you need to topdeck every turn to win?
The only thing that was disappointing was the length.
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please make a more thorough argument vodka. what you provided was short. if you can beat them entirely with some basic strats and basic cards; that bespeaks of some serious weaknesses.
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1/3 of the people think that it is too hard. That is more than I expected. I feel so relieved right now. Let's not get our hopes up for the upcoming wings.
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very skeptical of these fellows who claim to rip through the expansion on their first try, in less than 1 hour with all basic cards…it is the interweb after all…if they're that 'good' at results and not just talk, my hope is they do something very lucrative for a living.
in all fairness, the expansion is only 20% open, so judgements on overall quality reflect incomplete knowledge and impatience. any game designer worth his salt won't reveal the best parts until later on, which supports the marketing plan overall…
obviously the heroic mode was the most challenging and very daunting on the first attempt, but they give you the tools to defeat the heroic bosses. the difficulty seemed about right for 'heroic'.
the most glaring weakness, so far, was some of the moves by the AI, which seemed designed to fail...
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Blasted through the normal and class challenges in about an hour, playing my hands whilst playing Dark Souls. Only had time to play one heroic thing thus far but didn't manage to clear it unfortunately.
Personally I've been rather bloody-minded and want to complete it all with Priest. I cleared Anub'Rekhan and Maexxna with the Amaz Priest deck (or more specifically a slightly older version of it I've been running) and I threw together an aggro Priest deck and took out Grand Widow Faerlina with that.
I think the heroics are going to be pretty awkward to finish though since I want to use Priest and I don't have Alexstrasza for a quick 45>15. If I have to I guess I'll just use another class but meh, I'd rather not.
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On July 24 2014 19:28 figq wrote:
First, someone said only Heroic Maexxna required custom deck, not popular netdeck - not true, it works with popular Face Huntard perfectly, no need to tune anything, no healing needed for this deck to beat it. Second, I think the difficulty is just fine. It was easy for me, but I have most of the cards in the game; that's not true for the majority of people. When I tried it with underdeveloped accounts that don't even have Earthen Ring Farseer or the dust to craft it, it's actually a challenge. Not to mention, trying to beat everything with strictly basic cards, no commons even. Good luck with that. The difficulty is reasonably adapted to the existing player base of the game.
This line of thinking is mind boggling to me. This is like saying...okay World of Warcraft, an expansion is coming out but we want people who just started yesterday to be able to defeat the raid bosses. People who have been playing for years will find it trivial because they have been playing for years.
The point of new content is to give players something to do. If they don't have cards then there are plenty of ways to go about getting cards so they have plenty of things to do. They can play arena, they can get gold by defeating all the practice AIs, they can complete daily quests, etc. There is no reason to make content for people who have a very small collection because they already have content.
What is there for people who have been playing for 10 months?
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On July 24 2014 22:25 zlefin wrote:
please make a more thorough argument vodka. what you provided was short. if you can beat them entirely with some basic strats and basic cards; that bespeaks of some serious weaknesses.
I don't seem to see the connection between card rarity and easiness? Why is the zoo deck still around then?
What's the problem with my argument, if even the best players need multiple tries I think it's pretty alright.
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It was way easier than I expected it to be. I beat all the bosses except Heroic Maexxna with my ranked Handlock deck, missing two Mountain Giants (which I only use to get to rank 20... I only play arena). I retried the second boss on Heroic a few times but that's about it, Maexxna I countered with a funky Priest deck that I had to revise later on so at least that boss took some effort. Overall I'm disappointed but hopefully they'll make the future bosses more like Maexxna. Honestly though I was hoping for something new for arena players.
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On July 25 2014 03:00 vodkavlaflip wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2014 22:25 zlefin wrote:
please make a more thorough argument vodka. what you provided was short. if you can beat them entirely with some basic strats and basic cards; that bespeaks of some serious weaknesses. I don't seem to see the connection between card rarity and easiness? Why is the zoo deck still around then? What's the problem with my argument, if even the best players need multiple tries I think it's pretty alright.
Looking at the bosses' hero power before choosing a deck helps.
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On July 25 2014 00:35 Eliezar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2014 19:28 figq wrote:
First, someone said only Heroic Maexxna required custom deck, not popular netdeck - not true, it works with popular Face Huntard perfectly, no need to tune anything, no healing needed for this deck to beat it. Second, I think the difficulty is just fine. It was easy for me, but I have most of the cards in the game; that's not true for the majority of people. When I tried it with underdeveloped accounts that don't even have Earthen Ring Farseer or the dust to craft it, it's actually a challenge. Not to mention, trying to beat everything with strictly basic cards, no commons even. Good luck with that. The difficulty is reasonably adapted to the existing player base of the game. This line of thinking is mind boggling to me. This is like saying...okay World of Warcraft, an expansion is coming out but we want people who just started yesterday to be able to defeat the raid bosses. People who have been playing for years will find it trivial because they have been playing for years. The point of new content is to give players something to do. If they don't have cards then there are plenty of ways to go about getting cards so they have plenty of things to do. They can play arena, they can get gold by defeating all the practice AIs, they can complete daily quests, etc. There is no reason to make content for people who have a very small collection because they already have content. What is there for people who have been playing for 10 months?
I don't want to get into the too easy/difficult debate, but blizzard stated that naxxramas is not to be seen as an expansion, but as a fun way to obtain new cards. So basically you buy cards but have to do fun stuff to get them. I for my part had fun doing that.
Making bosses so difficult that you cannot beat them with just basic cards would not work with blizzards intention for naxxramas.
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I have to admit i nearly despaired at the first heroic boss. The normal bosses were probably too easy because you could crush them all with zoo very easily. I even got close to beating the first heroic boss with Zoo, I got Anub down to two health but then i died. I tried like 3 more times with Zoo and gave up and went to sleep because it was already late for EU (couldnt play most of the evening because of the servers)
4/4 with two mana is just too imba so you really have to choose a deck that counters that somehow. I dont normally play druid so i tried my usual ladder decks with sunshine hunter, control warrior and tempo rogue and failed miserably. Its not like you can be brainless and stubborn and expect to win. You really need to have the right deck. The fact that there are so many guides for naxx, shows that its not so easy for everyone.
For ladder its basically worthless to try your own decks if you dont have most of the cards to play with. If you follow a known build you're usually doing much better, so its nice to try and solve the riddle how to beat the heroic bosses by yourself.
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On July 25 2014 05:20 shur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2014 00:35 Eliezar wrote:On July 24 2014 19:28 figq wrote:
First, someone said only Heroic Maexxna required custom deck, not popular netdeck - not true, it works with popular Face Huntard perfectly, no need to tune anything, no healing needed for this deck to beat it. Second, I think the difficulty is just fine. It was easy for me, but I have most of the cards in the game; that's not true for the majority of people. When I tried it with underdeveloped accounts that don't even have Earthen Ring Farseer or the dust to craft it, it's actually a challenge. Not to mention, trying to beat everything with strictly basic cards, no commons even. Good luck with that. The difficulty is reasonably adapted to the existing player base of the game. This line of thinking is mind boggling to me. This is like saying...okay World of Warcraft, an expansion is coming out but we want people who just started yesterday to be able to defeat the raid bosses. People who have been playing for years will find it trivial because they have been playing for years. The point of new content is to give players something to do. If they don't have cards then there are plenty of ways to go about getting cards so they have plenty of things to do. They can play arena, they can get gold by defeating all the practice AIs, they can complete daily quests, etc. There is no reason to make content for people who have a very small collection because they already have content. What is there for people who have been playing for 10 months? I don't want to get into the too easy/difficult debate, but blizzard stated that naxxramas is not to be seen as an expansion, but as a fun way to obtain new cards. So basically you buy cards but have to do fun stuff to get them. I for my part had fun doing that. Making bosses so difficult that you cannot beat them with just basic cards would not work with blizzards intention for naxxramas.
Good they have normal mode for that.
Why can't they make heroic basically impossible for us who have been playing for 10 months?
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On July 25 2014 06:55 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2014 05:20 shur wrote:On July 25 2014 00:35 Eliezar wrote:On July 24 2014 19:28 figq wrote:
First, someone said only Heroic Maexxna required custom deck, not popular netdeck - not true, it works with popular Face Huntard perfectly, no need to tune anything, no healing needed for this deck to beat it. Second, I think the difficulty is just fine. It was easy for me, but I have most of the cards in the game; that's not true for the majority of people. When I tried it with underdeveloped accounts that don't even have Earthen Ring Farseer or the dust to craft it, it's actually a challenge. Not to mention, trying to beat everything with strictly basic cards, no commons even. Good luck with that. The difficulty is reasonably adapted to the existing player base of the game. This line of thinking is mind boggling to me. This is like saying...okay World of Warcraft, an expansion is coming out but we want people who just started yesterday to be able to defeat the raid bosses. People who have been playing for years will find it trivial because they have been playing for years. The point of new content is to give players something to do. If they don't have cards then there are plenty of ways to go about getting cards so they have plenty of things to do. They can play arena, they can get gold by defeating all the practice AIs, they can complete daily quests, etc. There is no reason to make content for people who have a very small collection because they already have content. What is there for people who have been playing for 10 months? I don't want to get into the too easy/difficult debate, but blizzard stated that naxxramas is not to be seen as an expansion, but as a fun way to obtain new cards. So basically you buy cards but have to do fun stuff to get them. I for my part had fun doing that. Making bosses so difficult that you cannot beat them with just basic cards would not work with blizzards intention for naxxramas. Good they have normal mode for that. Why can't they make heroic basically impossible for us who have been playing for 10 months?
Yeah, that's probably right. While i would say that Maexxna was kind of ok and it is still the first wing, so maybe the following wings will be more difficult.
[edit] When thinking about blizzards philosophy i don't really see that coming, though 
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I picked "way too easy", although it's just "a bit too easy". I did the first two heroic bosses with handlock on the first try (with a bit of luck), and it took me 2 tries with a well-thought-out mage deck against Maexxna. But what will the players do that don't have many good cards, for example Alexstrasza against Maexxna? For them, Naxxramas truely will be an adventure, with very hard to beat bosses. I wouldn't mind the following wings to become harder but I see why Blizzard doesn't want the heroic mode to be "insanely" hard, because it may be impossible for players that lack the required cards.
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On July 25 2014 08:11 AsAr wrote:
I picked "way too easy", although it's just "a bit too easy". I did the first two heroic bosses with handlock on the first try (with a bit of luck), and it took me 2 tries with a well-thought-out mage deck against Maexxna. But what will the players do that don't have many good cards, for example Alexstrasza against Maexxna? For them, Naxxramas truely will be an adventure, with very hard to beat bosses. I wouldn't mind the following wings to become harder but I see why Blizzard doesn't want the heroic mode to be "insanely" hard, because it may be impossible for players that lack the required cards.
But those insanely hard challenges give them a reason to go out and play and get those cards (Plus its not exactly hard to beat Maexxna without Alex since I failed to draw her when I beat her).
Its like arguing people should be able to go into black temple without having higher than 8500 health. The boss gave you a reason to go out and get gear so you could experience the dungeon. Cards are our gear and we should have reasons to want to farm them.
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The Heroics were jokingly easy. If you can beat them with decks the first week you started without paying a dime, they need to be MUCH, MUCH harder.
They shouldn't be easy to the point you clear the entire wing and class challenges with only one loss total. That's sickening. I want to have to actually tweak a deck and lose at least 10+ times before I roflstomp an entire wing.
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On July 24 2014 02:13 KnowNothing wrote:
Heroics clearly aren't "way too easy". I assume people picked that poll option because there isn't a "somewhat too easy" option. The problem imo is the fights aren't that interesting -- you don't have to be particularly creative or clever to come up with lame ways to trick the AI and win. In many cases you know that any normal play by the enemy would kill you easily and it really reduces the satisfaction you get from cheesing it out.
I beat the entire wing (including heroics and class challenges) with literally one loss (To Maxx, before I knew what her ability was) in less than 30 minutes. You can beat the entire thing with literally only commons very easily.
I'd call that absurdly easy. It's not like I'm some TCG God, I'd consider myself just a random decent player.
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On July 25 2014 08:35 Drazerk wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 25 2014 08:11 AsAr wrote:
I picked "way too easy", although it's just "a bit too easy". I did the first two heroic bosses with handlock on the first try (with a bit of luck), and it took me 2 tries with a well-thought-out mage deck against Maexxna. But what will the players do that don't have many good cards, for example Alexstrasza against Maexxna? For them, Naxxramas truely will be an adventure, with very hard to beat bosses. I wouldn't mind the following wings to become harder but I see why Blizzard doesn't want the heroic mode to be "insanely" hard, because it may be impossible for players that lack the required cards. But those insanely hard challenges give them a reason to go out and play and get those cards (Plus its not exactly hard to beat Maexxna without Alex since I failed to draw her when I beat her). Its like arguing people should be able to go into black temple without having higher than 8500 health. The boss gave you a reason to go out and get gear so you could experience the dungeon. Cards are our gear and we should have reasons to want to farm them.
True. But I don't like the idea of a boss XY only being possible to beat with, say, Deathwing, because that reduced the card to being "the ticket to beat XY". But I do like your comparison. Maybe I'm just too stingy with my Arcane Dust. :/
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On July 25 2014 08:44 Figgy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2014 02:13 KnowNothing wrote:
Heroics clearly aren't "way too easy". I assume people picked that poll option because there isn't a "somewhat too easy" option. The problem imo is the fights aren't that interesting -- you don't have to be particularly creative or clever to come up with lame ways to trick the AI and win. In many cases you know that any normal play by the enemy would kill you easily and it really reduces the satisfaction you get from cheesing it out. I beat the entire wing (including heroics and class challenges) with literally one loss (To Maxx, before I knew what her ability was) in less than 30 minutes. You can beat the entire thing with literally only commons very easily. I'd call that absurdly easy. It's not like I'm some TCG God, I'd consider myself just a random decent player.
maybe i play too slow but how is it possible for you to play 9 matches in less than 30 mins
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On July 25 2014 16:27 Kleinmuuhg wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2014 08:44 Figgy wrote:On July 24 2014 02:13 KnowNothing wrote:
Heroics clearly aren't "way too easy". I assume people picked that poll option because there isn't a "somewhat too easy" option. The problem imo is the fights aren't that interesting -- you don't have to be particularly creative or clever to come up with lame ways to trick the AI and win. In many cases you know that any normal play by the enemy would kill you easily and it really reduces the satisfaction you get from cheesing it out. I beat the entire wing (including heroics and class challenges) with literally one loss (To Maxx, before I knew what her ability was) in less than 30 minutes. You can beat the entire thing with literally only commons very easily. I'd call that absurdly easy. It's not like I'm some TCG God, I'd consider myself just a random decent player. maybe i play too slow but how is it possible for you to play 9 matches in less than 30 mins
By exaggerating slightly and having no lag.
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On July 24 2014 04:31 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
5 hours of gameplay is a little bit more than a 'day' for most people. Especially the kind of people Hearthstone is aimed at.
Exactly, i still haven't found the time to try heroic mode by now. And i don't want to sit for 1 hour on a card game, sorry... For me that just feels odd.
I see it another way... Most shooters that costs 40-50 euro have a playtime of 8-12 hours. So how much playtime do you expect for 18 euro?
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On July 25 2014 20:17 Somchai wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2014 04:31 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
5 hours of gameplay is a little bit more than a 'day' for most people. Especially the kind of people Hearthstone is aimed at.
Exactly, i still haven't found the time to try heroic mode by now. And i don't want to sit for 1 hour on a card game, sorry... For me that just feels odd. I see it another way... Most shooters that costs 40-50 euro have a playtime of 8-12 hours. So how much playtime do you expect for 18 euro?
or ~2 weeks of daily quests per quarter.
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On July 25 2014 20:17 Somchai wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2014 04:31 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
5 hours of gameplay is a little bit more than a 'day' for most people. Especially the kind of people Hearthstone is aimed at.
Exactly, i still haven't found the time to try heroic mode by now. And i don't want to sit for 1 hour on a card game, sorry... For me that just feels odd. I see it another way... Most shooters that costs 40-50 euro have a playtime of 8-12 hours. So how much playtime do you expect for 18 euro?
Very few games are longer than 6 hours long if you know what you are doing. I bet once Naxx is done with someone could probably beat all the heroics in under an hour with correct decks / luck.
Personally I don't see the length being an issue but given this is a card game and freaking pokemon has managed to have more challenging card game AI I don't understand why blizzard has made it so easy rather than artificially giving it an increased game play length through arbitrary difficulty.
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I watched Kripp with his F2P account struggle for hours on the Heroic Maexxna. With constant deck refinement, armed with his cunning intelligence, and all the amazing experience he has gained in HS, he was definitely challenged (and tired in the end).
No, a player with one week of HS can't beat it. A player with a lot of experience and understanding of the game can beat it using F2P deck for some hours of trial and error. That's how it is, and that sounds difficult enough.
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On July 25 2014 21:00 figq wrote:
I watched Kripp with his F2P account struggle for hours on the Heroic Maexxna. With constant deck refinement, armed with his cunning intelligence, and all the amazing experience he has gained in HS, he was definitely challenged (and tired in the end).
No, a player with one week of HS can't beat it. A player with a lot of experience and understanding of the game can beat it using F2P deck for some hours of trial and error. That's how it is, and that sounds difficult enough.
So we have to make ourselves marginally weaker for it to be difficult?
Heroics shouldn't be content for new players they should be content for people who have played for 8+ months and have every card so Blizzard can design bosses that are truly difficult.
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I just wonder what type of people are willing to play an card game encounter like an WoW encounter that took months of preparation to progress. Are there really this sort of people out there who want to loose an encounter for one month only for 1 win without progress? In a card game? Are you kidding me?
Naxx is just another way to sell cards to players, nothing more nothing less. This is a game to play against human beeings and not some computer AI. Just what did you expect? How much time would you allow HS to try and fail for nothing? I don't get the point in complaining naxx is too easy.
I expect each wing to be an evening of fun. Nothing more, nothing less. Blizzard did a perfect job on this.
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On July 25 2014 21:13 Somchai wrote:
I just wonder what type of people are willing to play an card game encounter like an WoW encounter that took months of preparation to progress. Are there really this sort of people out there who want to loose an encounter for one month only for 1 win without progress? In a card game? Are you kidding me?
Naxx is just another way to sell cards to players, nothing more nothing less. This is a game to play against human beeings and not some computer AI. Just what did you expect? How much time would you allow HS to try and fail for nothing? I don't get the point in complaining naxx is too easy.
Yes... something akin to an adventure... To be fair this is only 1/5 of the content though.
I'm not one of those that is super disappointed. However I hope the first wing was easier to get people hooked and the rest of the wings continue to get more difficult.
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On July 25 2014 21:13 Somchai wrote:
I just wonder what type of people are willing to play an card game encounter like an WoW encounter that took months of preparation to progress. Are there really this sort of people out there who want to loose an encounter for one month only for 1 win without progress? In a card game? Are you kidding me?
Naxx is just another way to sell cards to players, nothing more nothing less. This is a game to play against human beeings and not some computer AI. Just what did you expect? How much time would you allow HS to try and fail for nothing? I don't get the point in complaining naxx is too easy.
I expect each wing to be an evening of fun. Nothing more, nothing less. Blizzard did a perfect job on this.
And yet the heroic versions have no card incentives and as a result should be a difficult challenge for people who are bored of ladder / arena and want to test themselves.
Unlike WoW there is less people so less human error ruining your boss encounters and once a boss is beaten once the deck will be posted everywhere making it marginally easier for everyone so it'll be impossible to be stuck on it for a month just due to the genre differences. However there still should be a challenge there where the bosses take a lot of skill and luck to beat with a perfect deck if not then why bother having heroic mode at all?
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On July 25 2014 21:16 mordek wrote:
Yes... something akin to an adventure... To be fair this is only 1/5 of the content though.
I'm not one of those that is super disappointed. However I hope the first wing was easier to get people hooked and the rest of the wings continue to get more difficult.
Well maybe. But then again you'll find enough people for whom the game is still not "challenging" enough. I don't care, i can wait till somebody figured out a deck, i hopefully have the cards for. I just want the card back and the cards and then i never touch the single player content again.
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On July 25 2014 21:41 Somchai wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2014 21:16 mordek wrote:
Yes... something akin to an adventure... To be fair this is only 1/5 of the content though.
I'm not one of those that is super disappointed. However I hope the first wing was easier to get people hooked and the rest of the wings continue to get more difficult. Well maybe. But then again you'll find enough people for whom the game is still not "challenging" enough. I don't care, i can wait till somebody figured out a deck, i hopefully have the cards for. I just want the card back and the cards and then i never touch the single player content again.
I don't think it should be surprising that there are other people playing the game that enjoy a PvE aspect though and also prefer a grind/challenge.
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Man I really can't believe how many people are crying "Too easy!"...
This is 20% of Naxx, only the first wing (which is typically the easiest), and it's a card game... Card game expansions are typically just... more cards.
If people are forced to buy into a wing (real $ or gold) and continuously get beat down by the AI unless they have anything but the optimal deck and play at rank 5 + in constructed, they will not be too happy. Like most games, the top-end players are usually quite a small % of the full player base.
Blizz is actually giving us a "raid" in a card game - really don't get all the complaining. 700g is not a lot at all if you do dailies for 40-60g/day (plus 10 more every 3 wins), unless you are dumping gold into packs / losing a lot in Arena.
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On July 25 2014 22:27 pNRG wrote:
Man I really can't believe how many people are crying "Too easy!"...
This is 20% of Naxx, only the first wing (which is typically the easiest), and it's a card game... Card game expansions are typically just... more cards.
If people are forced to buy into a wing (real $ or gold) and continuously get beat down by the AI unless they have anything but the optimal deck and play at rank 5 + in constructed, they will not be too happy. Like most games, the top-end players are usually quite a small % of the full player base.
Blizz is actually giving us a "raid" in a card game - really don't get all the complaining. 700g is not a lot at all if you do dailies for 40-60g/day (plus 10 more every 3 wins), unless you are dumping gold into packs / losing a lot in Arena.
I am comparing the "raid" to other TCG video games like Yugioh forbidden memories or Pokemon the trading card game and those games came out 20 years ago and have better AI than the AI displayed in Naxx making them harder than these heroics.
Heroics aren't forced upon anyone they offer no rewards and should be a challenge. I don't understand why people expect to be able to beat heroics so easily when they are supposed to be difficult to everyone.
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Lets be honest, we can argue about AI beeing difficult to programm, but in the end If your AI is using battlerage to buff opponents minions without even killing them - you just dont give him that spell.
the same thing with the carddraw spell Farerlina uses, the AI has never used that spell to draw more than one card. Why give it to him? why not give her a new spell - draw three cards?
for heroic, the AIs poorly designed decks also factor in as why theyre so easy to beat. They dont play enough card draw and no real lategame (lol sea giant).
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On July 25 2014 22:27 pNRG wrote:
Man I really can't believe how many people are crying "Too easy!"...
This is 20% of Naxx, only the first wing (which is typically the easiest), and it's a card game... Card game expansions are typically just... more cards.
If people are forced to buy into a wing (real $ or gold) and continuously get beat down by the AI unless they have anything but the optimal deck and play at rank 5 + in constructed, they will not be too happy. Like most games, the top-end players are usually quite a small % of the full player base.
Blizz is actually giving us a "raid" in a card game - really don't get all the complaining. 700g is not a lot at all if you do dailies for 40-60g/day (plus 10 more every 3 wins), unless you are dumping gold into packs / losing a lot in Arena.
You should have played the WOW TCG raids. You weren't beating any of those by yourselves and people had to build specialized decks even with 3+ people to beat them efficiently.
Mind you, there was another person playing out the raid deck, but even with a decently programmed AI they could have wiped out your average joe schmo, the difficulty is what made it fun.
They could easily have made Hearthstone just as difficult.
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I also don't get why people would be disappointed. The main thing everyone thought about before launch was the new cards, and that's really the point. The battles themselves serve a simple purpose - to train people to be able to build decks to counter other decks. The heroic challenges simply push the concept harder, they're not supposed to be nigh impossible. Blizzard's description of the challenge was that it would require multiple attempts and deck revisions. That was the point. The class challenges serve the end of showing you a good counter-strategy once you've already beaten it, to further illustrate the point if it didn't come across on its own. When you recognize these bosses for what they are, it's very well put together. People don't complain about the Starcraft II campaign being too easy, because frankly who cares. It's simply a primer for the multiplayer content, always has been, it's the same here. Plus there's always the remaining 4 wings, there's plenty of room for things to get harder.
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On July 25 2014 22:32 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2014 22:27 pNRG wrote:
Man I really can't believe how many people are crying "Too easy!"...
This is 20% of Naxx, only the first wing (which is typically the easiest), and it's a card game... Card game expansions are typically just... more cards.
If people are forced to buy into a wing (real $ or gold) and continuously get beat down by the AI unless they have anything but the optimal deck and play at rank 5 + in constructed, they will not be too happy. Like most games, the top-end players are usually quite a small % of the full player base.
Blizz is actually giving us a "raid" in a card game - really don't get all the complaining. 700g is not a lot at all if you do dailies for 40-60g/day (plus 10 more every 3 wins), unless you are dumping gold into packs / losing a lot in Arena. I am comparing the "raid" to other TCG video games like Yugioh forbidden memories or Pokemon the trading card game and those games came out 20 years ago and have better AI than the AI displayed in Naxx making them harder than these heroics. Heroics aren't forced upon anyone they offer no rewards and should be a challenge. I don't understand why people expect to be able to beat heroics so easily when they are supposed to be difficult to everyone.
Are we talking about the Pokemon Online TCG? Because when I gave that a spin the 3-star AI would literally forget to attack several times over a match. Or other times do inane things like load up a fresh Pokemon with energy only to immediately swap it for a Pokemon with no energy.
Here's a question though. How many people complaining about how easy the heroic encounters spent time watching streams to see their AI / decks / attempts? Because that makes a huuuuge difference and seeing people fail (and a lot of streamers did, blame limited collections or what-not if you like) actually helps you learn a lot about the encounters (so in effect people who did this aren't really one-shotting it no matter what they think).
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On July 26 2014 03:29 Wuster wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2014 22:32 Drazerk wrote:On July 25 2014 22:27 pNRG wrote:
Man I really can't believe how many people are crying "Too easy!"...
This is 20% of Naxx, only the first wing (which is typically the easiest), and it's a card game... Card game expansions are typically just... more cards.
If people are forced to buy into a wing (real $ or gold) and continuously get beat down by the AI unless they have anything but the optimal deck and play at rank 5 + in constructed, they will not be too happy. Like most games, the top-end players are usually quite a small % of the full player base.
Blizz is actually giving us a "raid" in a card game - really don't get all the complaining. 700g is not a lot at all if you do dailies for 40-60g/day (plus 10 more every 3 wins), unless you are dumping gold into packs / losing a lot in Arena. I am comparing the "raid" to other TCG video games like Yugioh forbidden memories or Pokemon the trading card game and those games came out 20 years ago and have better AI than the AI displayed in Naxx making them harder than these heroics. Heroics aren't forced upon anyone they offer no rewards and should be a challenge. I don't understand why people expect to be able to beat heroics so easily when they are supposed to be difficult to everyone. Are we talking about the Pokemon Online TCG? Because when I gave that a spin the 3-star AI would literally forget to attack several times over a match. Or other times do inane things like load up a fresh Pokemon with energy only to immediately swap it for a Pokemon with no energy. Here's a question though. How many people complaining about how easy the heroic encounters spent time watching streams to see their AI / decks / attempts? Because that makes a huuuuge difference and seeing people fail (and a lot of streamers did, blame limited collections or what-not if you like) actually helps you learn a lot about the encounters (so in effect people who did this aren't really one-shotting it no matter what they think).
I'm talking about the Gameboy game made in 1998
I didn't look at any decks but the deck I ended up making for it is somewhat different to what other people have been linking but the base elements are the same which is always going to be the case I guess.
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On July 26 2014 03:51 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2014 03:29 Wuster wrote:On July 25 2014 22:32 Drazerk wrote:On July 25 2014 22:27 pNRG wrote:
Man I really can't believe how many people are crying "Too easy!"...
This is 20% of Naxx, only the first wing (which is typically the easiest), and it's a card game... Card game expansions are typically just... more cards.
If people are forced to buy into a wing (real $ or gold) and continuously get beat down by the AI unless they have anything but the optimal deck and play at rank 5 + in constructed, they will not be too happy. Like most games, the top-end players are usually quite a small % of the full player base.
Blizz is actually giving us a "raid" in a card game - really don't get all the complaining. 700g is not a lot at all if you do dailies for 40-60g/day (plus 10 more every 3 wins), unless you are dumping gold into packs / losing a lot in Arena. I am comparing the "raid" to other TCG video games like Yugioh forbidden memories or Pokemon the trading card game and those games came out 20 years ago and have better AI than the AI displayed in Naxx making them harder than these heroics. Heroics aren't forced upon anyone they offer no rewards and should be a challenge. I don't understand why people expect to be able to beat heroics so easily when they are supposed to be difficult to everyone. Are we talking about the Pokemon Online TCG? Because when I gave that a spin the 3-star AI would literally forget to attack several times over a match. Or other times do inane things like load up a fresh Pokemon with energy only to immediately swap it for a Pokemon with no energy. Here's a question though. How many people complaining about how easy the heroic encounters spent time watching streams to see their AI / decks / attempts? Because that makes a huuuuge difference and seeing people fail (and a lot of streamers did, blame limited collections or what-not if you like) actually helps you learn a lot about the encounters (so in effect people who did this aren't really one-shotting it no matter what they think). I'm talking about the Gameboy game made in 1998 I didn't look at any decks but the deck I ended up making for it is somewhat different to what other people have been linking but the base elements are the same which is always going to be the case I guess.
You know that the Forbidden Memories AI sometimes bugs out and suicides all their monsters into yours for nothing?
(and also misses lethal)
See: http://www.twitch.tv/xer_91/b/544799599?t=405m0s
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On July 24 2014 22:22 vodkavlaflip wrote:
Oh please, heroic wasn't to easy. Even people like Kolento needed a few tries to beat some. Ofcourse you beat them if you draw the right cards, it's a card game.. Do you rather have a game in which you need to topdeck every turn to win?
The only thing that was disappointing was the length.
If they were harder, you wouldn't be able to beat them in "a few tries", and then the length would no longer be disappointing.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On July 26 2014 04:02 S1eth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2014 03:51 Drazerk wrote:On July 26 2014 03:29 Wuster wrote:On July 25 2014 22:32 Drazerk wrote:On July 25 2014 22:27 pNRG wrote:
Man I really can't believe how many people are crying "Too easy!"...
This is 20% of Naxx, only the first wing (which is typically the easiest), and it's a card game... Card game expansions are typically just... more cards.
If people are forced to buy into a wing (real $ or gold) and continuously get beat down by the AI unless they have anything but the optimal deck and play at rank 5 + in constructed, they will not be too happy. Like most games, the top-end players are usually quite a small % of the full player base.
Blizz is actually giving us a "raid" in a card game - really don't get all the complaining. 700g is not a lot at all if you do dailies for 40-60g/day (plus 10 more every 3 wins), unless you are dumping gold into packs / losing a lot in Arena. I am comparing the "raid" to other TCG video games like Yugioh forbidden memories or Pokemon the trading card game and those games came out 20 years ago and have better AI than the AI displayed in Naxx making them harder than these heroics. Heroics aren't forced upon anyone they offer no rewards and should be a challenge. I don't understand why people expect to be able to beat heroics so easily when they are supposed to be difficult to everyone. Are we talking about the Pokemon Online TCG? Because when I gave that a spin the 3-star AI would literally forget to attack several times over a match. Or other times do inane things like load up a fresh Pokemon with energy only to immediately swap it for a Pokemon with no energy. Here's a question though. How many people complaining about how easy the heroic encounters spent time watching streams to see their AI / decks / attempts? Because that makes a huuuuge difference and seeing people fail (and a lot of streamers did, blame limited collections or what-not if you like) actually helps you learn a lot about the encounters (so in effect people who did this aren't really one-shotting it no matter what they think). I'm talking about the Gameboy game made in 1998 I didn't look at any decks but the deck I ended up making for it is somewhat different to what other people have been linking but the base elements are the same which is always going to be the case I guess. You know that the Forbidden Memories AI sometimes bugs out and suicides all their monsters into yours for nothing? (and also misses lethal) See: http://www.twitch.tv/xer_91/b/544799599?t=405m0s
For the most part it was still much better than the AI displayed in naxx though. Although yeah maybe rose tinted goggles
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Well, i now sit and try to beat Anub Rekan HC with different approches for 2 hours and i start getting really pissed. Thats just stupid RNG try and fail. So anyone saying the HCs are too easy right now seem to overestimate the average player.
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There's probably a bit of exaggerating going on too, because if people get to say how easy something is it makes them look cool.
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Enough now... If you guys think it's funny to have 2x 4/4 in round 2 then have fun. For me, HC is dead so far and they can shove the card back where the sun doesn't shine. I simply don't have the time and patience to try and error 15 bosses for 3 damn hours each and still not see any progress. Still losing big time and it just is plain frustrating, nothing more, nothing less. I go to bed now and dream of this fucking big spider for sure...
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I also felt it was too easy and somewhat unsatisfying after beating the first wing within a couple hours. But then I realized I have all the cards and can make any deck possible. For the majority of players it will prove more difficult and take longer to complete, so the difficulty and weekly release schedule is probably tuned OK.
I worry more about the replay value of the new content. Once the wings and class challenges are done once, what incentive is there to repeat them? Unless they plan on creating new quests relating to these adventures, I don't see much reason to ever play through them again, and this seems a little disappointing.
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I cleared heroic Anub and Maexx both on 1st attempt with the freeze mage deck I already had for ranked. It was pretty disappointing. I played zoo lock into the Grand Widow, and she took me 3 or 4 tries, which was nice, but it was still weird having heroic cleared when the xpac had only been out a few hours. Already waiting on next week on release day. -_-
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On July 26 2014 03:51 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2014 03:29 Wuster wrote:On July 25 2014 22:32 Drazerk wrote:On July 25 2014 22:27 pNRG wrote:
Man I really can't believe how many people are crying "Too easy!"...
This is 20% of Naxx, only the first wing (which is typically the easiest), and it's a card game... Card game expansions are typically just... more cards.
If people are forced to buy into a wing (real $ or gold) and continuously get beat down by the AI unless they have anything but the optimal deck and play at rank 5 + in constructed, they will not be too happy. Like most games, the top-end players are usually quite a small % of the full player base.
Blizz is actually giving us a "raid" in a card game - really don't get all the complaining. 700g is not a lot at all if you do dailies for 40-60g/day (plus 10 more every 3 wins), unless you are dumping gold into packs / losing a lot in Arena. I am comparing the "raid" to other TCG video games like Yugioh forbidden memories or Pokemon the trading card game and those games came out 20 years ago and have better AI than the AI displayed in Naxx making them harder than these heroics. Heroics aren't forced upon anyone they offer no rewards and should be a challenge. I don't understand why people expect to be able to beat heroics so easily when they are supposed to be difficult to everyone. Are we talking about the Pokemon Online TCG? Because when I gave that a spin the 3-star AI would literally forget to attack several times over a match. Or other times do inane things like load up a fresh Pokemon with energy only to immediately swap it for a Pokemon with no energy. Here's a question though. How many people complaining about how easy the heroic encounters spent time watching streams to see their AI / decks / attempts? Because that makes a huuuuge difference and seeing people fail (and a lot of streamers did, blame limited collections or what-not if you like) actually helps you learn a lot about the encounters (so in effect people who did this aren't really one-shotting it no matter what they think). I'm talking about the Gameboy game made in 1998 I didn't look at any decks but the deck I ended up making for it is somewhat different to what other people have been linking but the base elements are the same which is always going to be the case I guess.
Well that explains the 20 years old part, but er, not to state the obvious, but the Gameboy game wasn't a card game. Different mechanics, different AI. But sure, the AI could be improved for sure, it doesn't really make "decisions" it just follows a simple checklist of priorities as far as I can tell.
On July 26 2014 06:08 aed wrote:
I also felt it was too easy and somewhat unsatisfying after beating the first wing within a couple hours. But then I realized I have all the cards and can make any deck possible. For the majority of players it will prove more difficult and take longer to complete, so the difficulty and weekly release schedule is probably tuned OK.
I worry more about the replay value of the new content. Once the wings and class challenges are done once, what incentive is there to repeat them? Unless they plan on creating new quests relating to these adventures, I don't see much reason to ever play through them again, and this seems a little disappointing.
I think this is a valid concern, it's a problem inherent to PvE content (it's static) and Hearthstone is at it's heart about playing other people. But Adventures were something people wanted so they delivered it, though the biggest impact will still end up with using the new cards in ladder and arena. There's a disconnect between the people who want PvE and that replay paradign, so consider this an experiment in seeing if they can appease PvE players in what's fundamentally a PvP game.
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Way too easy, hopefully next wing is going to be a bit harder
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Osaka27148 Posts
I didn't think it was easy, just too short. I agree with someone else who posted that there should be a reward (golden cards?) for beating all the heroics with every character. That would give me a sense of fulfillment, and of more value.
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I don't see how it's too easy...Anub summons a 4/4 for 2 mana every turn. How do you even deal with that let alone all the other things he can throw at you?
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On July 25 2014 21:03 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2014 21:00 figq wrote:
I watched Kripp with his F2P account struggle for hours on the Heroic Maexxna. With constant deck refinement, armed with his cunning intelligence, and all the amazing experience he has gained in HS, he was definitely challenged (and tired in the end).
No, a player with one week of HS can't beat it. A player with a lot of experience and understanding of the game can beat it using F2P deck for some hours of trial and error. That's how it is, and that sounds difficult enough. So we have to make ourselves marginally weaker for it to be difficult? Heroics shouldn't be content for new players they should be content for people who have played for 8+ months and have every card so Blizzard can design bosses that are truly difficult. I was just responding to someone who claimed everything can be done very quickly by someone with under 1 week of playing HS. Which is obviously not true if it takes an experienced player a lot of time and editions to do it with a beginner's collection.
I don't think what you want is feasible, because it will be a very task-force demanding content that serves a tiny portion of the player base. That's inefficient development resource spending.
P.S. Gotta admit I've never played a raid in WoW, and I'm guessing that difficulty comparison is what motivates people to be so angry with heroics in HS.
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On July 26 2014 11:17 Roe wrote:
I don't see how it's too easy...Anub summons a 4/4 for 2 mana every turn. How do you even deal with that let alone all the other things he can throw at you?
I innervated a Yeti on turn 1. He played some random trash minion instead of his hero power on turn 2.. Then he proceeded to play the taunt minion that draws a card from my deck onto the field on turn 3. I killed it and got an 8/8 or something stupid. Needless to say easiest victory of my life on first attempt without playing anything above a common.
The AI is retarded.
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Well, you guys must be lucky... Today i tried Faerlina with this http://www.liquidhearth.com/forum/general-strategy/462872-heroic-first-wing-no-rares-used-decklist guide.
So another 2 hours gone. This just relies so heavily on your starting hand and the right card draw. This just doesn't feel like playing for me anymore, it feels like gambling or playing lottery and hoping for the best. This is what i call bullshit design, because it has nothing to do with skill only with luck to get the right cards in your hand. Sorry, i go play something else now, this simply sucks.
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Hah, I love OP.
"Don't vote unless you have beaten everything"
Well, of course people who have already beaten everything think it was too easy. How about asking everyone who has played to vote?
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On July 25 2014 21:03 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2014 21:00 figq wrote:
I watched Kripp with his F2P account struggle for hours on the Heroic Maexxna. With constant deck refinement, armed with his cunning intelligence, and all the amazing experience he has gained in HS, he was definitely challenged (and tired in the end).
No, a player with one week of HS can't beat it. A player with a lot of experience and understanding of the game can beat it using F2P deck for some hours of trial and error. That's how it is, and that sounds difficult enough. So we have to make ourselves marginally weaker for it to be difficult? Heroics shouldn't be content for new players they should be content for people who have played for 8+ months and have every card so Blizzard can design bosses that are truly difficult.
You mean blizzard should design bosses for people who have paid $texas for the game? I guess that makes sense. Let's be more honest then and not call it "heroic", but "Pay to Win" difficulty.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On July 26 2014 17:04 litlnoobs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2014 21:03 Drazerk wrote:On July 25 2014 21:00 figq wrote:
I watched Kripp with his F2P account struggle for hours on the Heroic Maexxna. With constant deck refinement, armed with his cunning intelligence, and all the amazing experience he has gained in HS, he was definitely challenged (and tired in the end).
No, a player with one week of HS can't beat it. A player with a lot of experience and understanding of the game can beat it using F2P deck for some hours of trial and error. That's how it is, and that sounds difficult enough. So we have to make ourselves marginally weaker for it to be difficult? Heroics shouldn't be content for new players they should be content for people who have played for 8+ months and have every card so Blizzard can design bosses that are truly difficult. You mean blizzard should design bosses for people who have paid $texas for the game? I guess that makes sense. Let's be more honest then and not call it "heroic", but "Pay to Win" difficulty.
I have never spent a single $ on this game and I have every card bar some trash legendaries I don't care about. Grinding cards in this game is not difficult. Just abuse rank 20 if you really struggle at arena and you should have most cards after a few months even if you never step a foot in arena like me.
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On July 26 2014 21:19 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2014 17:04 litlnoobs wrote:On July 25 2014 21:03 Drazerk wrote:On July 25 2014 21:00 figq wrote:
I watched Kripp with his F2P account struggle for hours on the Heroic Maexxna. With constant deck refinement, armed with his cunning intelligence, and all the amazing experience he has gained in HS, he was definitely challenged (and tired in the end).
No, a player with one week of HS can't beat it. A player with a lot of experience and understanding of the game can beat it using F2P deck for some hours of trial and error. That's how it is, and that sounds difficult enough. So we have to make ourselves marginally weaker for it to be difficult? Heroics shouldn't be content for new players they should be content for people who have played for 8+ months and have every card so Blizzard can design bosses that are truly difficult. You mean blizzard should design bosses for people who have paid $texas for the game? I guess that makes sense. Let's be more honest then and not call it "heroic", but "Pay to Win" difficulty. I have never spent a single $ on this game and I have every card bar some trash legendaries I don't care about. Grinding cards in this game is not difficult. Just abuse rank 20 if you really struggle at arena and you should have most cards after a few months even if you never step a foot in arena like me. Enjoy your <1$/h salary doing that. Let's face it, if you don't enjoy arena, there is no cheap way to get good cards. Grinding hundred of hours is not a solution for sane people.
Anyway, there's no way to make a fulfilling single player experience in a card game unless you program some decent AI, a thing Blizzard has never done in the past.
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Finally someone fixed the topic title, that was annoying to see.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On July 27 2014 02:40 Pwere wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2014 21:19 Drazerk wrote:On July 26 2014 17:04 litlnoobs wrote:On July 25 2014 21:03 Drazerk wrote:On July 25 2014 21:00 figq wrote:
I watched Kripp with his F2P account struggle for hours on the Heroic Maexxna. With constant deck refinement, armed with his cunning intelligence, and all the amazing experience he has gained in HS, he was definitely challenged (and tired in the end).
No, a player with one week of HS can't beat it. A player with a lot of experience and understanding of the game can beat it using F2P deck for some hours of trial and error. That's how it is, and that sounds difficult enough. So we have to make ourselves marginally weaker for it to be difficult? Heroics shouldn't be content for new players they should be content for people who have played for 8+ months and have every card so Blizzard can design bosses that are truly difficult. You mean blizzard should design bosses for people who have paid $texas for the game? I guess that makes sense. Let's be more honest then and not call it "heroic", but "Pay to Win" difficulty. I have never spent a single $ on this game and I have every card bar some trash legendaries I don't care about. Grinding cards in this game is not difficult. Just abuse rank 20 if you really struggle at arena and you should have most cards after a few months even if you never step a foot in arena like me. Enjoy your <1$/h salary doing that. Let's face it, if you don't enjoy arena, there is no cheap way to get good cards. Grinding hundred of hours is not a solution for sane people. Anyway, there's no way to make a fulfilling single player experience in a card game unless you program some decent AI, a thing Blizzard has never done in the past.
Arena is actually less efficient if you don't consistently go above 4 wins IIRC but its been a while since I've needed gold. Plus Hearthstone is a light game I've done matches while playing other games and watching tv before its not exactly that difficult to juggle.
But yeah hearthstone needs better AI
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On July 26 2014 17:04 litlnoobs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2014 21:03 Drazerk wrote:On July 25 2014 21:00 figq wrote:
I watched Kripp with his F2P account struggle for hours on the Heroic Maexxna. With constant deck refinement, armed with his cunning intelligence, and all the amazing experience he has gained in HS, he was definitely challenged (and tired in the end).
No, a player with one week of HS can't beat it. A player with a lot of experience and understanding of the game can beat it using F2P deck for some hours of trial and error. That's how it is, and that sounds difficult enough. So we have to make ourselves marginally weaker for it to be difficult? Heroics shouldn't be content for new players they should be content for people who have played for 8+ months and have every card so Blizzard can design bosses that are truly difficult. You mean blizzard should design bosses for people who have paid $texas for the game? I guess that makes sense. Let's be more honest then and not call it "heroic", but "Pay to Win" difficulty.
Having cards doesn't make it pay to win...I've been playing since September or October or something and have most of the set. There are only maybe 3 cards total that I don't have that I could imagine having used...
It seems that "pay to win" claims or mostly just "whine because I'm jealous or suck" attacks and shouldn't be occurring. Most people who post on this sight can keep up with an Arena a day pace using quests and in 6 months doing just that nets you 180 packs and massive dust...not counting any other playing that you do. That's going to be a pretty sizeable collection of 9 legendaries opened from packs alone..etc.
But yes...if you are going to make a HC mode there should be better rewards and a more evenly difficult challenge. The way normal is they should just give people the cards and have not wasted the time designing the wing. Hopefully the upcoming wings will be better, but this is a big disappointment.
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Options are a tad black and white imho. I wouldn't say it is where it needs to be, but it wasn't "way too easy" either. It did require a few tries. For Maexxna I even had to scramble a frost mage deck (no ice blocks/doomsayers).
The downside this week was that Faerlina was a joke, and Anub was kind of easy too. Three heroics equal to, or a bit more difficult than Maexxna had been wonderful.
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United States23455 Posts
Willing to bet that the Heroic versions of the bosses will increase in difficulty as we go
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The normal mode was to easy. The Heroic mode should be just a little bit harder.
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Like most of the posters in this thread, I enjoyed the bosses a lot, but would like more of a challenge, and some rewards for defeating them on heroic.
However, it is worth bearing in mind that we are a tiny minority of the player base. The average TL-poster can comfortably profit from the arena, make legendary whenever they can face the grind, and clear a wing of Naxx content in 1-2 hours without breaking a sweat. I think that's quite far from the average player. I wonder if Blizzard will release statistics sometime?
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After some hard hours, i beated Maexxna and Faerlina. But Anub is giving me headaches, since i don't have an Alex. Still don't know how to handle this guy.
It was a great help to see Massan play, and after i got a perfect starting hand for Faerlina it was a piece of cake even with my bad cards.
Maexxna was a easy also, if you manage to get the board to 1/1s and get a Guardian and Farseer on you hand + some spell healing cards with paladin. With some charge creatures in between she commited suicide due to no cards
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Have you tried ramp druid vs anub yet? I just beat him with fatties.
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Anub was way easier than Maexxna imho. Ran over him with the zoolock deck I used for everything except heroic maexxna, although I did lose on the first go. But once you get a decent start and can trade his 4/4s fairly effectively (abusive, scarlet, commanders, soulfire etc) it's really easy.
My friend beat him equally easy with ramp druid. It seems almost even better.
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For me Anub was also clearly the hardest but I guess there is some variance regarding him. I saw some videos of people playing him where he almost never used his hero power. That makes things easier of course because his cards aren't that strong. He is the hardest when he is making a 4/4 every single turn starting on turn 1.
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On July 30 2014 05:55 Paragleiber wrote:
For me Anub was also clearly the hardest but I guess there is some variance regarding him. I saw some videos of people playing him where he almost never used his hero power. That makes things easier of course because his cards aren't that strong. He is the hardest when he is making a 4/4 every single turn starting on turn 1.
I actually found the turn 6,7,8 Carrion Swarm or w/e (3 dmg aoe and heal) harder to deal with when I attempted with my zoo deck. Ramp druid usually deals well enough with the 4/4 and you aren't as punished by the aoe. Worked like a charm for me plus you want his Deathlord's pulling an 8/8 Ironbark on turn 4 if possible
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Same story this week it would seem. Did them on second, first and third try after having thrown together some nice decks against their mechanics.
Still think the difficulty is pretty good. A little bit harder wouldn't have hurt, but I guess they don't count on everyone having all the cards they need. Without the right cards I think these bosses would be really difficult, especially the first two.
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On July 30 2014 08:51 soverRR wrote:
Same story this week it would seem. Did them on second, first and third try after having thrown together some nice decks against their mechanics.
Still think the difficulty is pretty good. A little bit harder wouldn't have hurt, but I guess they don't count on everyone having all the cards they need. Without the right cards I think these bosses would be really difficult, especially the first two.
Did you beat the heroic in 3 tries only? I can't find a way to beat them right now 
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You can't beat the heroics? I changed decks on each of the heroic bosses, but used Miracle Rogue (first try), ramp druid (second try), and then token druid with double naturalize (4th try). I crafted the druid decks on the fly and don't even have good druid decks really. I found this week to be much more interesting than last week for sure. I definitely felt like the bosses were more like puzzles to be solved.
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Noth I found quite difficult cause you pretty much can't play minions, until I crafted a mage deck that accidentally turned pretty much into freeze mage without Alex (I dot have her), I found Antonidas was pretty amazing since Noth is hardwired to hit face you can easily get of a turn or two of slinging frost bolts and fireballs, and its even better with the apprentice. I still havent beaten Haegan, he's been the most challenging so far for me. Loatheb was a breeze with zoo if you play it the same way as normal, since he has no direct damage that i know of, you can just take board control, kill a spore or two and start swinging face and you don't hav to worry about dying to anything but his hero power. having said that, i did win with one health left, but i expected that to happen for three tuns before I won
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EPT
