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Katowice25012 Posts
Saw this on the Blizzard site. Copy pasting all the information, the important stuff here is $100k first prize with a $250k overall prize pool.
![[image loading]](http://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/blog_header/7X9RZDC24NN81398126215360.jpg)
The Hearthstone World Championship table has seats reserved for the best players in the world. Read the details and full rules for our Hearthstone European Qualifier Tournament here.
The Hearthstone World Championship will bring together some of Hearthstone’s best players from around the world for a climactic showdown at BlizzCon 2014! The Hearthstone World Championship will offer a total prize pool of $250,000, with the first place winner receiving a whopping $100,000!
![[image loading]](https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/gallery/FZ0YEWDAHVNE1400719645981.jpg)
Before that happens, there will be some friendly competition that will ultimately decide who will qualify to attend the Hearthstone World Championship with our European Qualifier Tournament. We’re ready to share the details of this tournament with you today!
How can I qualify for the European Qualifier Tournament?
There are a few ways to qualify. A total of 130 players will be participating in the European Qualifier Tournament:
- Be a top 16 Legend player from Ranked Play in April, May, June, July, or August.
- Top players from select community tournaments between April and August will be invited to participate in the European Qualifier Tournament. We will highlight those tournaments as well as how many qualifier spots are available in that tournament.
- A Last Call Tournament will be held before the European Qualifier Tournament to determine any remaining qualifier spots, up to 130 participants. Players must be a resident of the countries noted below and must have achieved Legend rank on the
- European Ranked Play ladder at least one time between April and August. Players residing in these countries are eligible to participate in the Last Call Tournament for the European region: Austria, Belgium, Belarus, Bulgaria, Croatia, The Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Russia, Serbia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, The Ukraine and The United Kingdom.
- Players cannot compete in multiple Qualifier Tournaments. If a player qualifies for multiple, they must choose one to compete in.
What can I expect at the European Qualifier Tournament?
The European Qualifier Tournament will have a total of 130 players and takes place in two phases. These 130 players will be matched against each other based on their cumulative placements in the European Ranked Play Rankings from April to August. The top 2 players with the highest cumulative placements will immediately advance to Phase 2 of the Tournament. Play your best each season!
All matches will follow a best of five “Last Hero Standing” format. Each player will bring three different decks to each match. If a deck is defeated during a game of the match, that player must change to a different deck for the next game of the match.
Phase 1 of the tournament will consist of “The Constructed Arena Phase.”
- Players will be matched against each other in a Swiss format based on their initial seeding.
- If a player loses three matches (not games) in Phase 1, that player will be eliminated from the tournament.
- If a player ends a round of the Swiss format tournament with a +5 match record, that player will advance to Phase 2. (Match records are determined as Wins minus Losses. 5-0, 6-1, or 7-2 records are all considered +5 match records.)
Phase 2 of the tournament is the “Final Qualifying Round.”
- In Phase 2 of the tournament, only 16 players will remain from the initial 130 participants.
- Players will be randomly seeded into four tournament groups of four.
- The top two players from each group are placed in an eight-player single elimination bracket.
![[image loading]](https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/gallery/JZKJ68ZZW60W1400719645837.jpg)
he top four players will advance to the Hearthstone World Championships at BlizzCon 2014!
Hearthstone Qualifier Tournament Comprehensive Rules
Keep in mind that not all countries are eligible to participate in the Hearthstone World Championship or the Qualifier Tournaments. Please refer to the comprehensive rules below for a list of eligible countries.
For the European Qualifier Tournament rules please go here.
For the comprehensive Americas Qualifier Tournament rules please go here.
We’ll see you at the European Qualifier Tournament table. A seat is waiting for you!
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Katowice25012 Posts
That whole breakdown annoys me, 100k to 50k to 15k seems insane but for a young game its sort of understandable.
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getting top 16 legend has little to do with being good and lots to do with having a lot of time to grind.
unfortunately that is not the case for me so I will try the last call allthough i dont see myself fighting through that swamp
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So if some guy guy from Europe dosent manage to get top 16 in Europe, can he still be able to try out get it in NA or Asia server?
If so that fucking sucks dick. WCS all over again.
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I like the format though, swiss followed by groups then elimination bracket.
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On May 23 2014 03:23 Capz wrote:
So if some guy guy from Europe dosent manage to get top 16 in Europe, can he still be able to try out get it in NA or Asia server?
If so that fucking sucks dick. WCS all over again.
yeah, koreans everywhe. . . oh wait.
well, atm I doubt that there is a severe skill disparity on the servers, so i doubt the worst case scenario will happen.
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On May 23 2014 03:31 Hryul wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 03:23 Capz wrote:
So if some guy guy from Europe dosent manage to get top 16 in Europe, can he still be able to try out get it in NA or Asia server?
If so that fucking sucks dick. WCS all over again. yeah, koreans everywhe. . . oh wait. well, atm I doubt that there is a severe skill disparity on the servers, so i doubt the worst case scenario will happen.
from what i've seen its like the opposite of sc2 with koreans being worse than non koreans.
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Katowice25012 Posts
TIME TO STRIKE BACK, BOYS
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In my view, randomness plays a huge role in Hearthstone. So I doubt it makes any sense to treat it as a serious competition/e-sport...
... and 100k for a winner that is mostly determined by luck feels somewhat strange.
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It's time to D-D-d-d-d--d-d-d-d-d-duel!
Sweet Jesus Moses that's a lot of moolah
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On May 23 2014 04:17 C[h]ili wrote:
In my view, randomness plays a huge role in Hearthstone. So I doubt it makes any sense to treat it as a serious competition/e-sport...
... and 100k for a winner that is mostly determined by luck feels somewhat strange.
I agree to an extent but it should still be fun to watch
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didnt they say a few would qualify via community tournaments?
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Why are some European countries excluded from the Last Call tournament like Portugal or Romania for example? That seems quite random and unfair to me.
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On May 23 2014 05:07 Eggi wrote:
didnt they say a few would qualify via community tournaments?
On May 23 2014 03:14 Heyoka wrote:
How can I qualify for the European Qualifier Tournament?
[...]
[*]Top players from select community tournaments between April and August will be invited to participate in the European Qualifier Tournament. We will highlight those tournaments as well as how many qualifier spots are available in that tournament.
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Holy crap, did not expect them to match prize pool for SC2. Expected like 25K prizepool .
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In such a game of chance, why is the pool so tilted? Wouldn't a (slightly) more shared pool of money make sense? $5k seems low for being near top of world (9th) in comparison to $100k. I guess for sheer hype it could be $100k first prize sounds amazing?
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The phase one swiss style seems really cool, and a really good system! I'm a little confused about the community tournaments though, they say that they'll take high finishers from April to August, but they'll also tell us what tournaments those are? Seems like some tournaments would've already been played.
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On May 23 2014 03:22 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
getting top 16 legend has little to do with being good and lots to do with having a lot of time to grind.
unfortunately that is not the case for me so I will try the last call allthough i dont see myself fighting through that swamp
You clearly haven't been near top 16 to make absurd statement like this
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On May 23 2014 09:08 Darthsanta13 wrote:
The phase one swiss style seems really cool, and a really good system! I'm a little confused about the community tournaments though, they say that they'll take high finishers from April to August, but they'll also tell us what tournaments those are? Seems like some tournaments would've already been played.
They said they will announce ahead of time and there hasn't been any qualifying community tourney yet
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On May 23 2014 03:23 Capz wrote:
So if some guy guy from Europe dosent manage to get top 16 in Europe, can he still be able to try out get it in NA or Asia server?
If so that fucking sucks dick. WCS all over again.
I'm surprised that Asians haven't invaded na and eu servers yet
They should come once they realize qualifying here is easier than winning ogn tournament imo
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On May 23 2014 03:23 Capz wrote:
So if some guy guy from Europe dosent manage to get top 16 in Europe, can he still be able to try out get it in NA or Asia server?
If so that fucking sucks dick. WCS all over again.
Read it properly:
Players cannot compete in multiple Qualifier Tournaments. If a player qualifies for multiple, they must choose one to compete in.
I.e if you qualify for US and EU, you can only compete in one.
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Gonna laugh when the final game is determined by a series of unfortunate RNG events for the loser  .
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On May 23 2014 11:06 prodigyHS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 03:22 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
getting top 16 legend has little to do with being good and lots to do with having a lot of time to grind.
unfortunately that is not the case for me so I will try the last call allthough i dont see myself fighting through that swamp You clearly haven't been near top 16 to make absurd statement like this
I have playdd versus nearly all of the well known players from europe on ladder and won my fair share. No i havent been Top 50 or so yet, as i have limited Time to play , hence my Statement. Dont Know why you would call it an absurd Statement. In legend you will never See 70% win percentages so a lot of it boils down to njmber of games
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On May 23 2014 14:27 Kleinmuuhg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 11:06 prodigyHS wrote:On May 23 2014 03:22 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
getting top 16 legend has little to do with being good and lots to do with having a lot of time to grind.
unfortunately that is not the case for me so I will try the last call allthough i dont see myself fighting through that swamp You clearly haven't been near top 16 to make absurd statement like this I have playdd versus nearly all of the well known players from europe on ladder and won my fair share. No i havent been Top 50 or so yet, as i have limited Time to play , hence my Statement. Dont Know why you would call it an absurd Statement. In legend you will never See 70% win percentages so a lot of it boils down to njmber of games
Pretty sure Tides has mentioned that you need 75% winrate to maintain rank 1. And he did stay at the top of NA for quite a while that season.
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On May 23 2014 16:12 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 14:27 Kleinmuuhg wrote:On May 23 2014 11:06 prodigyHS wrote:On May 23 2014 03:22 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
getting top 16 legend has little to do with being good and lots to do with having a lot of time to grind.
unfortunately that is not the case for me so I will try the last call allthough i dont see myself fighting through that swamp You clearly haven't been near top 16 to make absurd statement like this I have playdd versus nearly all of the well known players from europe on ladder and won my fair share. No i havent been Top 50 or so yet, as i have limited Time to play , hence my Statement. Dont Know why you would call it an absurd Statement. In legend you will never See 70% win percentages so a lot of it boils down to njmber of games Pretty sure Tides has mentioned that you need 75% winrate to maintain rank 1. And he did stay at the top of NA for quite a while that season.
Rank 1 in legend that is, you mean? I really dont think so. You can watch top legend streamers, they wont win 3/4 games, you can watch Trump talk about winrates , he will say that a very good deck has like 60% etc etc. Maybe if you are ahead of the meta or play a perfect counter deck to the currently most played decks you can get 75% for a short ammount of time, but surely not in the long run, not from rank 2 upwards.
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On May 23 2014 16:25 Kleinmuuhg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 16:12 S_SienZ wrote:On May 23 2014 14:27 Kleinmuuhg wrote:On May 23 2014 11:06 prodigyHS wrote:On May 23 2014 03:22 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
getting top 16 legend has little to do with being good and lots to do with having a lot of time to grind.
unfortunately that is not the case for me so I will try the last call allthough i dont see myself fighting through that swamp You clearly haven't been near top 16 to make absurd statement like this I have playdd versus nearly all of the well known players from europe on ladder and won my fair share. No i havent been Top 50 or so yet, as i have limited Time to play , hence my Statement. Dont Know why you would call it an absurd Statement. In legend you will never See 70% win percentages so a lot of it boils down to njmber of games Pretty sure Tides has mentioned that you need 75% winrate to maintain rank 1. And he did stay at the top of NA for quite a while that season. Rank 1 in legend that is, you mean? I really dont think so. You can watch top legend streamers, they wont win 3/4 games, you can watch Trump talk about winrates , he will say that a very good deck has like 60% etc etc. Maybe if you are ahead of the meta or play a perfect counter deck to the currently most played decks you can get 75% for a short ammount of time, but surely not in the long run, not from rank 2 upwards.
Yes. And he showed it, especially when MMRs are close. Every loss he incurred and dropped to 2/3, he had to win 3 more games to get back to 1.
No disrespect to Trump, but I've never seen him in the top 20 before. And yes, I acknowledge that being ahead of the meta is very important in getting and maintaining top 10 rank. Kolento has shown this time and again.
Also I recall an interview from I believe it was one of the earlier Fight Nights, where Strifecro was talking about the beta seasons where he was rank 1 Legend in. He mentioned that he was close with Savjz for Rank 1, then all of a sudden he went on like a 40+ win streak or something stupid like that and since then he knew in advance there was no way Savjz would catch up in the final week of the season.
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On May 23 2014 16:36 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 16:25 Kleinmuuhg wrote:On May 23 2014 16:12 S_SienZ wrote:On May 23 2014 14:27 Kleinmuuhg wrote:On May 23 2014 11:06 prodigyHS wrote:On May 23 2014 03:22 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
getting top 16 legend has little to do with being good and lots to do with having a lot of time to grind.
unfortunately that is not the case for me so I will try the last call allthough i dont see myself fighting through that swamp You clearly haven't been near top 16 to make absurd statement like this I have playdd versus nearly all of the well known players from europe on ladder and won my fair share. No i havent been Top 50 or so yet, as i have limited Time to play , hence my Statement. Dont Know why you would call it an absurd Statement. In legend you will never See 70% win percentages so a lot of it boils down to njmber of games Pretty sure Tides has mentioned that you need 75% winrate to maintain rank 1. And he did stay at the top of NA for quite a while that season. Rank 1 in legend that is, you mean? I really dont think so. You can watch top legend streamers, they wont win 3/4 games, you can watch Trump talk about winrates , he will say that a very good deck has like 60% etc etc. Maybe if you are ahead of the meta or play a perfect counter deck to the currently most played decks you can get 75% for a short ammount of time, but surely not in the long run, not from rank 2 upwards. Yes. And he showed it, especially when MMRs are close. Every loss he incurred and dropped to 2/3, he had to win 3 more games to get back to 1. No disrespect to Trump, but I've never seen him in the top 20 before. And yes, I acknowledge that being ahead of the meta is very important in getting and maintaining top 10 rank. Kolento has shown this time and again. Also I recall an interview from I believe it was one of the earlier Fight Nights, where Strifecro was talking about the beta seasons where he was rank 1 Legend in. He mentioned that he was close with Savjz for Rank 1, then all of a sudden he went on like a 40+ win streak or something stupid like that and since then he knew in advance there was no way Savjz would catch up in the final week of the season.
Well I cant argue with that I guess.
My original point was though that I personally have a good record, even vs top legend players (on EU) and the only reason I think I wont make it to Top16 is limited time, which really annoys me. Obviously you dont have to believe me and its always hard to prove yourself if you're some anonymous dude, but the end of this year I will have more time and will aim to proving myself worthy of my claims 
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On May 23 2014 16:45 Kleinmuuhg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 16:36 S_SienZ wrote:On May 23 2014 16:25 Kleinmuuhg wrote:On May 23 2014 16:12 S_SienZ wrote:On May 23 2014 14:27 Kleinmuuhg wrote:On May 23 2014 11:06 prodigyHS wrote:On May 23 2014 03:22 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
getting top 16 legend has little to do with being good and lots to do with having a lot of time to grind.
unfortunately that is not the case for me so I will try the last call allthough i dont see myself fighting through that swamp You clearly haven't been near top 16 to make absurd statement like this I have playdd versus nearly all of the well known players from europe on ladder and won my fair share. No i havent been Top 50 or so yet, as i have limited Time to play , hence my Statement. Dont Know why you would call it an absurd Statement. In legend you will never See 70% win percentages so a lot of it boils down to njmber of games Pretty sure Tides has mentioned that you need 75% winrate to maintain rank 1. And he did stay at the top of NA for quite a while that season. Rank 1 in legend that is, you mean? I really dont think so. You can watch top legend streamers, they wont win 3/4 games, you can watch Trump talk about winrates , he will say that a very good deck has like 60% etc etc. Maybe if you are ahead of the meta or play a perfect counter deck to the currently most played decks you can get 75% for a short ammount of time, but surely not in the long run, not from rank 2 upwards. Yes. And he showed it, especially when MMRs are close. Every loss he incurred and dropped to 2/3, he had to win 3 more games to get back to 1. No disrespect to Trump, but I've never seen him in the top 20 before. And yes, I acknowledge that being ahead of the meta is very important in getting and maintaining top 10 rank. Kolento has shown this time and again. Also I recall an interview from I believe it was one of the earlier Fight Nights, where Strifecro was talking about the beta seasons where he was rank 1 Legend in. He mentioned that he was close with Savjz for Rank 1, then all of a sudden he went on like a 40+ win streak or something stupid like that and since then he knew in advance there was no way Savjz would catch up in the final week of the season. Well I cant argue with that I guess. My original point was though that I personally have a good record, even vs top legend players (on EU) and the only reason I think I wont make it to Top16 is limited time, which really annoys me. Obviously you dont have to believe me and its always hard to prove yourself if you're some anonymous dude, but the end of this year I will have more time and will aim to proving myself worthy of my claims
No reason for me to not believe you either, it's not like it affects me whatsoever
I just think Top 16 is definitely a pretty tough feat. Totally different ballgame compared to just getting into legend. Especially with 250k now on the line, I don't think many will even stream their progress in the final week.
Good luck when you do go for it.
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On May 23 2014 03:49 Heyoka wrote:
TIME TO STRIKE BACK, BOYS
lmao
then a korean player proceeds to win the whole thing
hahahaha
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On May 23 2014 17:04 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 16:45 Kleinmuuhg wrote:On May 23 2014 16:36 S_SienZ wrote:On May 23 2014 16:25 Kleinmuuhg wrote:On May 23 2014 16:12 S_SienZ wrote:On May 23 2014 14:27 Kleinmuuhg wrote:On May 23 2014 11:06 prodigyHS wrote:On May 23 2014 03:22 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
getting top 16 legend has little to do with being good and lots to do with having a lot of time to grind.
unfortunately that is not the case for me so I will try the last call allthough i dont see myself fighting through that swamp You clearly haven't been near top 16 to make absurd statement like this I have playdd versus nearly all of the well known players from europe on ladder and won my fair share. No i havent been Top 50 or so yet, as i have limited Time to play , hence my Statement. Dont Know why you would call it an absurd Statement. In legend you will never See 70% win percentages so a lot of it boils down to njmber of games Pretty sure Tides has mentioned that you need 75% winrate to maintain rank 1. And he did stay at the top of NA for quite a while that season. Rank 1 in legend that is, you mean? I really dont think so. You can watch top legend streamers, they wont win 3/4 games, you can watch Trump talk about winrates , he will say that a very good deck has like 60% etc etc. Maybe if you are ahead of the meta or play a perfect counter deck to the currently most played decks you can get 75% for a short ammount of time, but surely not in the long run, not from rank 2 upwards. Yes. And he showed it, especially when MMRs are close. Every loss he incurred and dropped to 2/3, he had to win 3 more games to get back to 1. No disrespect to Trump, but I've never seen him in the top 20 before. And yes, I acknowledge that being ahead of the meta is very important in getting and maintaining top 10 rank. Kolento has shown this time and again. Also I recall an interview from I believe it was one of the earlier Fight Nights, where Strifecro was talking about the beta seasons where he was rank 1 Legend in. He mentioned that he was close with Savjz for Rank 1, then all of a sudden he went on like a 40+ win streak or something stupid like that and since then he knew in advance there was no way Savjz would catch up in the final week of the season. Well I cant argue with that I guess. My original point was though that I personally have a good record, even vs top legend players (on EU) and the only reason I think I wont make it to Top16 is limited time, which really annoys me. Obviously you dont have to believe me and its always hard to prove yourself if you're some anonymous dude, but the end of this year I will have more time and will aim to proving myself worthy of my claims No reason for me to not believe you either, it's not like it affects me whatsoever I just think Top 16 is definitely a pretty tough feat. Totally different ballgame compared to just getting into legend. Especially with 250k now on the line, I don't think many will even stream their progress in the final week. Good luck when you do go for it.
Yeah I guess top16 is 300% harder than top 100
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On May 23 2014 17:07 Boonbag wrote:lmao then a korean player proceeds to win the whole thing hahahaha
out of nowhere $o$ wins the HS tournament
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On May 23 2014 17:12 TAMinator wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 17:07 Boonbag wrote:On May 23 2014 03:49 Heyoka wrote:
TIME TO STRIKE BACK, BOYS lmao then a korean player proceeds to win the whole thing hahahaha out of nowhere $o$ wins the HS tournament
we can't rebel against our rulers x___x
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Well wow, I wasn't expecting this much money and the spread.
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Isn't top 16 a bit vague though - I thought people got to like top 20 or so then just went idle for the rest of the season, making it extremely difficult for anyone else to break into it?
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On May 23 2014 18:22 Nekovivie wrote:
Isn't top 16 a bit vague though - I thought people got to like top 20 or so then just went idle for the rest of the season, making it extremely difficult for anyone else to break into it?
How is it vague?
Not sure if I understand you correctly, are you implying that the top 16 players are idling or that there's another wall of players before them from 17-50 or so that is idling as well? The former is probably the case for a lot of players if they get a good streak early on and can set themselves way ahead (in which case they still earned it though, didn't they?), but the latter wouldn't really make sense.
If tons of people were actually idling in the top 100, don't you think it'd be even harder to get into top 16 if those people actually would've tried to push further and a few of them made it into top 16 themselves? As a player trying to get into top 16, you'll need to push above at least the former rank 16 either way, doesn't matter too much how many players are between that and your rank and what they are doing, only how many wins that 16 is from your rank at that point.
Concerning the win rates/time commitment stuff:
Sure, going 60:40 with a deck over a large number of games is pretty damn good and will keep you climbing consistently for quite a while. Once you approach around rank 50 it gradually gets a lot harder though, the gain in ranks per win gets smaller to the point were you may need to go 4:0 to push from rank 3 to 2 for example.
To really push for a "safe" top 16 finish you'll need to get into at least top 10 by now since almost everyone in the top 100 or so who have a realistic shot will go for a final push towards the last few days and at least some of these are bound to make it.
And to get from around 30-40 (the point were you start going from 10+ ranks per win to <2-3 ranks per win and about twice as much in the negative per loss) into top 10, you really need to go on a ridiculous streak, 60% win rate won't do it anymore at this point. You'll need to go about 2:1 to break even (even more once you're actually in the top 10 or so) and only the wins beyond that will actually push you onwards by a few ranks at a time.
So even with a ~75% win rate, you'll need to play a good number of games maintaining that rate (probably around 60 to push from 50 to 10) which is extremely hard to do. Basically, there's still a huge difference in games needing to be played based on how good your streak actually is, e.g. starting at 50 and going 45:15 will be about the same as going 35:10 or 15:0. I think most players who are in the top16 actually had a streak closer to 85%+ win rate for their last 10-20 games. Which really is something you need to get lucky with, no matter how skilled you are or how good your deck is.
And that's the point were time commitment comes in. Say you're a player who consistently makes it into top 100 at least and can maintain your rank somewhere in there... you'll still need that one big streak to really push for top 16 and having more time at your disposal definitely improves your odds of getting that streak you need.
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So, a slightly off-topic question. How do all the popular streamers - Trump, Massan, and others - do in the race for top16?
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On May 23 2014 19:46 morningrise wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 18:22 Nekovivie wrote:
Isn't top 16 a bit vague though - I thought people got to like top 20 or so then just went idle for the rest of the season, making it extremely difficult for anyone else to break into it? How is it vague? Not sure if I understand you correctly, are you implying that the top 16 players are idling or that there's another wall of players before them from 17-50 or so that is idling as well? The former is probably the case for a lot of players if they get a good streak early on and can set themselves way ahead (in which case they still earned it though, didn't they?), but the latter wouldn't really make sense. If tons of people were actually idling in the top 100, don't you think it'd be even harder to get into top 16 if those people actually would've tried to push further and a few of them made it into top 16 themselves? As a player trying to get into top 16, you'll need to push above at least the former rank 16 either way, doesn't matter too much how many players are between that and your rank and what they are doing, only how many wins that 16 is from your rank at that point. Concerning the win rates/time commitment stuff: Sure, going 60:40 with a deck over a large number of games is pretty damn good and will keep you climbing consistently for quite a while. Once you approach around rank 50 it gradually gets a lot harder though, the gain in ranks per win gets smaller to the point were you may need to go 4:0 to push from rank 3 to 2 for example. To really push for a "safe" top 16 finish you'll need to get into at least top 10 by now since almost everyone in the top 100 or so who have a realistic shot will go for a final push towards the last few days and at least some of these are bound to make it. And to get from around 30-40 (the point were you start going from 10+ ranks per win to <2-3 ranks per win and about twice as much in the negative per loss) into top 10, you really need to go on a ridiculous streak, 60% win rate won't do it anymore at this point. You'll need to go about 2:1 to break even (even more once you're actually in the top 10 or so) and only the wins beyond that will actually push you onwards by a few ranks at a time. So even with a ~75% win rate, you'll need to play a good number of games maintaining that rate (probably around 60 to push from 50 to 10) which is extremely hard to do. Basically, there's still a huge difference in games needing to be played based on how good your streak actually is, e.g. starting at 50 and going 45:15 will be about the same as going 35:10 or 15:0. I think most players who are in the top16 actually had a streak closer to 85%+ win rate for their last 10-20 games. Which really is something you need to get lucky with, no matter how skilled you are or how good your deck is. And that's the point were time commitment comes in. Say you're a player who consistently makes it into top 100 at least and can maintain your rank somewhere in there... you'll still need that one big streak to really push for top 16 and having more time at your disposal definitely improves your odds of getting that streak you need.
Well don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the ladder is corrupt, but I remember reading topics on here about how high ranked players would "sit" on their rank once they broke high MMR.
Since you seem to lose a lot more MMR from a loss and you gain from a win, this made ousting these players from the top of the ladder extremely difficult, even for top caliber players who hold 80% win rate.
Since Blizzard are picking the top 16 from each season, isn't the motivation for people to sit on their rank even greater?
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On May 24 2014 00:55 Nekovivie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 19:46 morningrise wrote:On May 23 2014 18:22 Nekovivie wrote:
Isn't top 16 a bit vague though - I thought people got to like top 20 or so then just went idle for the rest of the season, making it extremely difficult for anyone else to break into it? How is it vague? Not sure if I understand you correctly, are you implying that the top 16 players are idling or that there's another wall of players before them from 17-50 or so that is idling as well? The former is probably the case for a lot of players if they get a good streak early on and can set themselves way ahead (in which case they still earned it though, didn't they?), but the latter wouldn't really make sense. If tons of people were actually idling in the top 100, don't you think it'd be even harder to get into top 16 if those people actually would've tried to push further and a few of them made it into top 16 themselves? As a player trying to get into top 16, you'll need to push above at least the former rank 16 either way, doesn't matter too much how many players are between that and your rank and what they are doing, only how many wins that 16 is from your rank at that point. Concerning the win rates/time commitment stuff: Sure, going 60:40 with a deck over a large number of games is pretty damn good and will keep you climbing consistently for quite a while. Once you approach around rank 50 it gradually gets a lot harder though, the gain in ranks per win gets smaller to the point were you may need to go 4:0 to push from rank 3 to 2 for example. To really push for a "safe" top 16 finish you'll need to get into at least top 10 by now since almost everyone in the top 100 or so who have a realistic shot will go for a final push towards the last few days and at least some of these are bound to make it. And to get from around 30-40 (the point were you start going from 10+ ranks per win to <2-3 ranks per win and about twice as much in the negative per loss) into top 10, you really need to go on a ridiculous streak, 60% win rate won't do it anymore at this point. You'll need to go about 2:1 to break even (even more once you're actually in the top 10 or so) and only the wins beyond that will actually push you onwards by a few ranks at a time. So even with a ~75% win rate, you'll need to play a good number of games maintaining that rate (probably around 60 to push from 50 to 10) which is extremely hard to do. Basically, there's still a huge difference in games needing to be played based on how good your streak actually is, e.g. starting at 50 and going 45:15 will be about the same as going 35:10 or 15:0. I think most players who are in the top16 actually had a streak closer to 85%+ win rate for their last 10-20 games. Which really is something you need to get lucky with, no matter how skilled you are or how good your deck is. And that's the point were time commitment comes in. Say you're a player who consistently makes it into top 100 at least and can maintain your rank somewhere in there... you'll still need that one big streak to really push for top 16 and having more time at your disposal definitely improves your odds of getting that streak you need. Well don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the ladder is corrupt, but I remember reading topics on here about how high ranked players would "sit" on their rank once they broke high MMR. Since you seem to lose a lot more MMR from a loss and you gain from a win, this made ousting these players from the top of the ladder extremely difficult, even for top caliber players who hold 80% win rate. Since Blizzard are picking the top 16 from each season, isn't the motivation for people to sit on their rank even greater?
He addressed that in his opener. Yeah they might sit on their ranks, but they still got there somehow in the first place.
You also have to be far ahead enough to be comfortable just sitting though, if I'm not mistaken. People can still surpass you by grinding more games with an equal / better win rate while you're not playing.
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Sitting can only get u sofar u have to play even if ur rank 1 eventually
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While we're on the topic of ranks though, I wish that Blizzard would have some sort of official rankings we could check from time to time, or even just a daily update at a certain time if real time updates are not possible. It just adds some sort of narrative to the season instead of "Hey the seasons over, here's your top 16" that we have now.
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Well apparently the only country in the world that cannot compete is Greece.... even if you are a high legend player you can't do anything ... Great... gj Blizz
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On May 24 2014 00:55 Nekovivie wrote:
Well don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the ladder is corrupt, but I remember reading topics on here about how high ranked players would "sit" on their rank once they broke high MMR.
Since you seem to lose a lot more MMR from a loss and you gain from a win, this made ousting these players from the top of the ladder extremely difficult, even for top caliber players who hold 80% win rate.
Since Blizzard are picking the top 16 from each season, isn't the motivation for people to sit on their rank even greater?
I really don't think you can blame these players who camp their ranks though or call them out for cheating the system in any way. The seasons are short enough as is, if Blizzard now also introduced a rating decay of sorts, that'd be even more time you 'need' to spend on ladder and also more emphasis on great rng-streaks towards the end.
If your goal is just to have a nice ranking at the end of the season while also getting into the EU-Qualifier, there really isn't much reason to risk that position once you've reached it, you can still practice in private games with friends and participate in tournaments. As I pointed out in my earlier post, it's really hard to break into top 16 and even the players at the absolute top won't be able to reproduce that feat like it's nothing. If you'd set the current rank 1-3 legend guys back to 50, I actually think it's more likely for them to fall below 200 than to break back into top 5 on their first try.
Might be a different thing for streamers who actually make money off of streaming their ladder experience, but even they can just switch to a different region once they've reached their goal.
You're right on the top 16 stuff encouraging people to sit on those ranks - or rather the top 8 probably, everyone below that already knows that he/she won't be safe there with so many people behind them trying to push into top 16 themselves. And I don't really see the reason why a player who went 80%+ win rate for 20+ games to get his place in the top 8 should be inferior to another "top caliber player" holding 80% win. If that other guy is really getting 80% wins for a long period of time, he'll make it as well. And if he doesn't make it, his streak probably still wasn't as long/good/lucky as the one of the guys in front of him, that's just how it works. There'll still be the actual tournament(s) for a more direct comparison between the top tier players.
On May 24 2014 01:15 S_SienZ wrote:
You also have to be far ahead enough to be comfortable just sitting though, if I'm not mistaken. People can still surpass you by grinding more games with an equal / better win rate while you're not playing.
Yeah, TheFallen for example got to rank 2 very early in the last season, didn't play for a while and started to lose ranks up to 10 or so, then played back up to 2 again about halfway through the season and by the end he still barely stayed in the top 10. And that's from rank 2, now imagine the players who were at 5-16 at the time when he got up to 2 a second time. I don't think any of them were still in the top 16 two weeks later without playing and winning some more games themselves.
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I think it is easier the earlier on you can get into the top ranks but you're not really allowed to idle completely for the rest of the season. I got into top 16 pretty early this season and have dropped from 3 to 13 in a week on one occasion but it only took me 1 game to climb back up so I think that says something about the MMR differential between top legend players at least in the early-mid period of the season. I've been pretty fortunate and lucky so far in that I've been able to play high MMR players in my last couple games so I've only needed to play 2-3 games on average a week. Currently rank 4 but I do see myself being deranked at least 1-2 ranks every other day if I completely idle, it seems like a neck-race if you're not top 1-2 with insane MMR.
While I think it is true that getting into top 16 is more difficult in the season, many of the top legend players have sick streaks so that says something about consistency, skill, and luck imo. Personally, I don't think introducing decay would be a good idea, it's already grindy enough as it is
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On May 23 2014 16:45 Kleinmuuhg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 16:36 S_SienZ wrote:On May 23 2014 16:25 Kleinmuuhg wrote:On May 23 2014 16:12 S_SienZ wrote:On May 23 2014 14:27 Kleinmuuhg wrote:On May 23 2014 11:06 prodigyHS wrote:On May 23 2014 03:22 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
getting top 16 legend has little to do with being good and lots to do with having a lot of time to grind.
unfortunately that is not the case for me so I will try the last call allthough i dont see myself fighting through that swamp You clearly haven't been near top 16 to make absurd statement like this I have playdd versus nearly all of the well known players from europe on ladder and won my fair share. No i havent been Top 50 or so yet, as i have limited Time to play , hence my Statement. Dont Know why you would call it an absurd Statement. In legend you will never See 70% win percentages so a lot of it boils down to njmber of games Pretty sure Tides has mentioned that you need 75% winrate to maintain rank 1. And he did stay at the top of NA for quite a while that season. Rank 1 in legend that is, you mean? I really dont think so. You can watch top legend streamers, they wont win 3/4 games, you can watch Trump talk about winrates , he will say that a very good deck has like 60% etc etc. Maybe if you are ahead of the meta or play a perfect counter deck to the currently most played decks you can get 75% for a short ammount of time, but surely not in the long run, not from rank 2 upwards. Yes. And he showed it, especially when MMRs are close. Every loss he incurred and dropped to 2/3, he had to win 3 more games to get back to 1. No disrespect to Trump, but I've never seen him in the top 20 before. And yes, I acknowledge that being ahead of the meta is very important in getting and maintaining top 10 rank. Kolento has shown this time and again. Also I recall an interview from I believe it was one of the earlier Fight Nights, where Strifecro was talking about the beta seasons where he was rank 1 Legend in. He mentioned that he was close with Savjz for Rank 1, then all of a sudden he went on like a 40+ win streak or something stupid like that and since then he knew in advance there was no way Savjz would catch up in the final week of the season. Well I cant argue with that I guess. My original point was though that I personally have a good record, even vs top legend players (on EU) and the only reason I think I wont make it to Top16 is limited time, which really annoys me. Obviously you dont have to believe me and its always hard to prove yourself if you're some anonymous dude, but the end of this year I will have more time and will aim to proving myself worthy of my claims
Last season u needed like 9-0 to get top 16 from rank 30, add 2-3 wins per loss
I dunno about this seaso tho but yes it takes time
However u need a good streak and luck too and it's not easy
Saying u haven't made it into top 16 cuz u don't have the time is the lamest excuse and discredit to top 16 players
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On May 25 2014 05:28 prodigyHS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 16:45 Kleinmuuhg wrote:On May 23 2014 16:36 S_SienZ wrote:On May 23 2014 16:25 Kleinmuuhg wrote:On May 23 2014 16:12 S_SienZ wrote:On May 23 2014 14:27 Kleinmuuhg wrote:On May 23 2014 11:06 prodigyHS wrote:On May 23 2014 03:22 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
getting top 16 legend has little to do with being good and lots to do with having a lot of time to grind.
unfortunately that is not the case for me so I will try the last call allthough i dont see myself fighting through that swamp You clearly haven't been near top 16 to make absurd statement like this I have playdd versus nearly all of the well known players from europe on ladder and won my fair share. No i havent been Top 50 or so yet, as i have limited Time to play , hence my Statement. Dont Know why you would call it an absurd Statement. In legend you will never See 70% win percentages so a lot of it boils down to njmber of games Pretty sure Tides has mentioned that you need 75% winrate to maintain rank 1. And he did stay at the top of NA for quite a while that season. Rank 1 in legend that is, you mean? I really dont think so. You can watch top legend streamers, they wont win 3/4 games, you can watch Trump talk about winrates , he will say that a very good deck has like 60% etc etc. Maybe if you are ahead of the meta or play a perfect counter deck to the currently most played decks you can get 75% for a short ammount of time, but surely not in the long run, not from rank 2 upwards. Yes. And he showed it, especially when MMRs are close. Every loss he incurred and dropped to 2/3, he had to win 3 more games to get back to 1. No disrespect to Trump, but I've never seen him in the top 20 before. And yes, I acknowledge that being ahead of the meta is very important in getting and maintaining top 10 rank. Kolento has shown this time and again. Also I recall an interview from I believe it was one of the earlier Fight Nights, where Strifecro was talking about the beta seasons where he was rank 1 Legend in. He mentioned that he was close with Savjz for Rank 1, then all of a sudden he went on like a 40+ win streak or something stupid like that and since then he knew in advance there was no way Savjz would catch up in the final week of the season. Well I cant argue with that I guess. My original point was though that I personally have a good record, even vs top legend players (on EU) and the only reason I think I wont make it to Top16 is limited time, which really annoys me. Obviously you dont have to believe me and its always hard to prove yourself if you're some anonymous dude, but the end of this year I will have more time and will aim to proving myself worthy of my claims Last season u needed like 9-0 to get top 16 from rank 30, add 2-3 wins per loss I dunno about this seaso tho but yes it takes time However u need a good streak and luck too and it's not easy Saying u haven't made it into top 16 cuz u don't have the time is the lamest excuse and discredit to top 16 players
It really is about time though no? Its no different than Pokemon TCG invites to world championships.
In PTCG the top40 highest ranked ELO ranked players would get invites to world championships.
How do you get top40? You would need to go to as many tournaments and do well at them. Option B) was winning premier tournaments. I only went to 2-4 tournaments a year while the high "elo" players would go to 20+ events.
It takes time to get top16 since its not a 100% skill game, not even 90% skill game.(not currently, not ever)
This means you will incur losses through just pure luck, and like you say 2-3 wins = 1 loss so you need the time to grind out games.
I have FT job and FT stream, no time to hit top 16 at the moment, I would have to take away time from streaming to get top16(maybe). Streaming = snipes+lower level playing since you are usually focused more on the stream rather than the game.(at least I am)
Time is the biggest factor in reaching top16 just like it was in PTCG to get a high ELO. You just have to play, alot.(assuming you are a decent legendary player with a decent strategical thinking).
It doesn't discredit them, but just because your top16 in Hearthstone Legend, is nothing like comparing it to top16 Grandmaster in Starcraft 2 because you can see the skill difference in the players.
Most if not all top100 legend players can compete with anyone from any rank, its just a matter of putting in the hours and playing the game right.
Now this being said, you do have an advantage, which is playing a fuckton of games. The more games you play in hearthstone the more of a "second sense" you get as I like to call it. I really compare Hearthstone to a pseudo-poker. You can really make alot of good plays based on tells from the opponent how he is playing etc so you get more experience as you play more games.
Its just a bit of time+luck to get top16.(dont forget I am assuming you are a decent player) Its not like SC2 where MC goes 100-2 on ladder and get Rank1 Grandmaster. You will never see that in Hearthstone, just because it is a card game and luck does play a factor, so you have to balance your bad luck by putting more time in. Simple equation really.
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On May 25 2014 05:28 prodigyHS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 16:45 Kleinmuuhg wrote:On May 23 2014 16:36 S_SienZ wrote:On May 23 2014 16:25 Kleinmuuhg wrote:On May 23 2014 16:12 S_SienZ wrote:On May 23 2014 14:27 Kleinmuuhg wrote:On May 23 2014 11:06 prodigyHS wrote:On May 23 2014 03:22 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
getting top 16 legend has little to do with being good and lots to do with having a lot of time to grind.
unfortunately that is not the case for me so I will try the last call allthough i dont see myself fighting through that swamp You clearly haven't been near top 16 to make absurd statement like this I have playdd versus nearly all of the well known players from europe on ladder and won my fair share. No i havent been Top 50 or so yet, as i have limited Time to play , hence my Statement. Dont Know why you would call it an absurd Statement. In legend you will never See 70% win percentages so a lot of it boils down to njmber of games Pretty sure Tides has mentioned that you need 75% winrate to maintain rank 1. And he did stay at the top of NA for quite a while that season. Rank 1 in legend that is, you mean? I really dont think so. You can watch top legend streamers, they wont win 3/4 games, you can watch Trump talk about winrates , he will say that a very good deck has like 60% etc etc. Maybe if you are ahead of the meta or play a perfect counter deck to the currently most played decks you can get 75% for a short ammount of time, but surely not in the long run, not from rank 2 upwards. Yes. And he showed it, especially when MMRs are close. Every loss he incurred and dropped to 2/3, he had to win 3 more games to get back to 1. No disrespect to Trump, but I've never seen him in the top 20 before. And yes, I acknowledge that being ahead of the meta is very important in getting and maintaining top 10 rank. Kolento has shown this time and again. Also I recall an interview from I believe it was one of the earlier Fight Nights, where Strifecro was talking about the beta seasons where he was rank 1 Legend in. He mentioned that he was close with Savjz for Rank 1, then all of a sudden he went on like a 40+ win streak or something stupid like that and since then he knew in advance there was no way Savjz would catch up in the final week of the season. Well I cant argue with that I guess. My original point was though that I personally have a good record, even vs top legend players (on EU) and the only reason I think I wont make it to Top16 is limited time, which really annoys me. Obviously you dont have to believe me and its always hard to prove yourself if you're some anonymous dude, but the end of this year I will have more time and will aim to proving myself worthy of my claims Last season u needed like 9-0 to get top 16 from rank 30, add 2-3 wins per loss I dunno about this seaso tho but yes it takes time However u need a good streak and luck too and it's not easy Saying u haven't made it into top 16 cuz u don't have the time is the lamest excuse and discredit to top 16 players
its not lame excuse at all
i win vs most of the top players as much as i lose to them . i am currently 350 on eu legend and i have not played nearly as much as all of the streamers (i cant comment on other players), but i have only been playing 8 games since hitting legend for example. so no, its not a lame excuse , its a justified claim that my chances of making it to top16 are nearly zero because of the numbers of games played. obviously saying that doesnt mean that playing more games guarantees me getting top16, but not playing a lot of games guarantees me not getting top16.
eggis post explains it pretty good
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On May 24 2014 01:45 Ioannis wrote:
Well apparently the only country in the world that cannot compete is Greece.... even if you are a high legend player you can't do anything ... Great... gj Blizz
You arent a high ranked legend player and i dont think anyone from greece was ever top 16 legend anyway.
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On May 28 2014 15:30 ffswowsucks wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2014 01:45 Ioannis wrote:
Well apparently the only country in the world that cannot compete is Greece.... even if you are a high legend player you can't do anything ... Great... gj Blizz You arent a high ranked legend player and i dont think anyone from greece was ever top 16 legend anyway.
Actually 2 Greek players were top 16 Legend in the April season....
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Haha the prize distribution is incredibly stupid.
I get that they want the tournament to make a big "splash" but rewarding the "best player" and giving next to nothing to the rest just feels wrong with Hearthstone being as volatile as it is. Not to big of a problem if this makes it hard to live off Hearthstone though, since you do not really need to play it 10+ hours a day to play at a higher level like SC2.
You could be the worlds greatest Hearthstone player and have a life as well.
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I must admit, this sort of thing might be a nice motivation for me to get back to constructed; Sure, wouldn't expect to win or anything and would be lucky to get top 16, but it's something to aim towards. $100k for the winner is massive!
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On May 28 2014 23:08 Dasvi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 15:30 ffswowsucks wrote:On May 24 2014 01:45 Ioannis wrote:
Well apparently the only country in the world that cannot compete is Greece.... even if you are a high legend player you can't do anything ... Great... gj Blizz You arent a high ranked legend player and i dont think anyone from greece was ever top 16 legend anyway. Actually 2 Greek players were top 16 Legend in the April season....
Who were they? Also i said i think so i might be wrong. If thats the case then yeah its a pitty greece isnt able to fight for this
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On May 29 2014 14:58 ffswowsucks wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 23:08 Dasvi wrote:On May 28 2014 15:30 ffswowsucks wrote:On May 24 2014 01:45 Ioannis wrote:
Well apparently the only country in the world that cannot compete is Greece.... even if you are a high legend player you can't do anything ... Great... gj Blizz You arent a high ranked legend player and i dont think anyone from greece was ever top 16 legend anyway. Actually 2 Greek players were top 16 Legend in the April season.... Who were they? Also i said i think so i might be wrong. If thats the case then yeah its a pitty greece isnt able to fight for this
Dethelor - Rank 4
NaSoMaNiAC - Rank 9
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EPT![[image loading]](https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/gallery/954HX2WHHUTY1400722573052.jpg)
