So I woke up and was reading the news and saw an article "Government wants to tighten gun laws".
In wake of the recent school shooting in Winneden, where a 17 year-old boy killed 15 people, the government tries to take action in order to prevent further shootings.
The new laws are not yet effective, but the government plans inspections on gun owners' homes (a refusal being illegal), a national gun-owner register, to raise the admission age for competitive marksmen to 18 and finally fun sports like paintball and laserdom will be banned completely (a violation can be fined with up to 5000€), because they simulate killing.
I'm no paintballer myself and I don't know how big the German paintball scene is, but the government is taking it too far this time. Why not raise the admission age to 18 there as well? Makes me wonder when video games are next.
It's very simple actually. It's election time, so they have to do something regarding the recent school shooting. Of course no one wants to touch the real guns that actually kill people, because there are 1.5 million voters registered in hunting and shooting clubs.
So they are looking for a pawn to sacrifice (does this expression exist in English btw?). Computer games have had the blame too often and have a strong lobby by now - paintball however is an obscure hobby with very little support.
But, rest assured paint ball players, nothing is going to happen. This is just elections. Banning paint ball was already on the last administrations agenda - nothing happened. Same here, as soon as the election are over, no one will talk about this anymore.
Yeah I think paintball is less widespread in ger than e.g. in usa. So some "old men" which govern the country look for some easy scapegoat and something which isn't a value in their own lifes. Hope it falls back on them and even older voters see how idiotic the argumentation behind this is.
On May 07 2009 18:27 groro wrote: Yeah I think paintball is less widespread in ger than e.g. in usa. So some "old men" which govern the country look for some easy scapegoat and something which isn't a value in their own lifes. Hope it falls back on them and even older voters see how idiotic the argumentation behind this is.
It´s not only old men, but also women. We must face it, young men are a minority in our country
This is ridiculous, and I hope it´s just one of those overly sensationalist stories the media come up with every so often and not a real consensus among politicians.
On May 07 2009 17:44 poilord wrote: and finally fun sports like paintball and laserdom will be banned completely (a violation can be fined with up to 5000€), because they simulate killing.
They should ban the army too, because I heard that stimulates killing pretty well.
I agree with Zatic though, its not real problem solving that politics should be, its pointless point scoring.
Also "a pawn to sacrifice" does exist in English, except for me it always came with the baggage that it was slightly unwilling, a sacrifice for the greater good, but this is clearly not that, its opportunistic, playing with people's darkest fears, and offering a simple solution to what is clearly a complex social problem.
On May 07 2009 18:32 jhNz wrote: they should ban bread too. over 90% of all terrorists eat bread during the last 24 hours before their strike.
Bear in mind though(haha learned some English expressions from tasteless casts too) that afaik paintball wasn't even a hobby of this school shooter. So they leveled up in finding stupid scapegoats.
German government doing stupid decisions once again. Like they cancelled the ESL Friday Night Game because CS was going to be played at Stuttgart, but they kept the International Arms Fair in the same location.
On May 07 2009 19:08 RubiksCube wrote: German government doing stupid decisions once again. Like they cancelled the ESL Friday Night Game because CS was going to be played at Stuttgart, but they kept the International Arms Fair in the same location.
Not stupid at all- German E-sports industry: negligible. German weapon industry : 3rd biggest in the world.
Age limit of 18 for paintball is sensible in my eyes. Banning is retarded ofc.
normally I don't to this, but as a reaction to this I wrote a rather long mail to my representative in the Bundestag. you can easily find out who yours is if you google your city name and Bundestagsabgeordneter.
On May 07 2009 20:20 distant_voice wrote: normally I don't to this, but as a reaction to this I wrote a rather long mail to my representative in the Bundestag. you can easily find out who yours is if you google your city name and Bundestagsabgeordneter.
On May 07 2009 20:20 distant_voice wrote: normally I don't to this, but as a reaction to this I wrote a rather long mail to my representative in the Bundestag. you can easily find out who yours is if you google your city name and Bundestagsabgeordneter.
gerade habe ich gelesen, dass die Koalition in den nächsten Wochen ein Gesetz auf den Weg bringen wird, dass unter anderem das Spielen von Paintball mit einer Geldstrafe belegt. In dem Artikel werden Mitglieder der Koalition zitiert, die glauben, dass bei dieser Sportart "das Töten simuliert" werde, und dass Paintball "sittenwidrig" sei. Hierzu möchte ich Ihnen einmal kurz meine Gedanken darlegen, und Sie bitten diese bei einer zukünftigen Abstimmung im Bundestag zu berücksichtigen.
Es ist offensichtlich, dass diese Entscheidung eine Reaktion auf die schrecklichen Ereignisse von Winnenden ist. Auch ich habe die Nachrichten zu dieser Tragödie verfolgt und war sehr betroffen. Natürlich fragt sich jeder, der mit dieser Nachricht konfrontiert wird auch, was den Täter dazu bringen konnte, solch eine Tat zu begehen. Wie rationalisierte er seine wahrscheinlich von langer Hand geplante Tat, und wie konnte er so kaltblütig sein sie auch umzusetzen? Dazu kommt auch die Frage nach der Herkunft der Waffe, ohne die nie so viele Menschen ums Leben gekommen wären.
Im Großen und Ganzen stehe ich einer Verschärfung des Waffenrechts positiv gegenüber. Was kann falsch daran sein, Menschen den Zugang zu ihnen zu erschweren? Dass es nun aber auf ein Verbot eines Spiels, einer Sportart hinausläuft, bei der Waffen benutzt werden, die weder zum Zweck der Tötung gebaut, noch dazu geeignet sind, das verwundert mich und macht mich auch wütend. Wütend vor allem deswegen, weil Waffen, die durchaus zur Tötung geeignet sind und bei der Tat in Winnenden auch gebraucht wurden, von dem Gesetzt nicht, oder kaum betroffen sind. Deswegen verspreche ich mir von diesem Gesetz überhaupt nichts. Hinzu kommt, dass die Gründe für die Existenz der Problematik von Amokläufe sich nicht in der Verfügbarkeit von Waffen erschöpfen. Naheliegender als die Maßnahme Paintball zu verbieten, wäre es für mich noch ein Verbot gegen Baseballschläger und anderes Gerät auszusprechen, dass wahrscheinlich täglich zur Verletzung oder sogar Tötung von Menschen führt.
Aber es scheint bei dieser Entscheidung nicht um die reine Gefährlichkeit der Gerätschaft zu gehen, sondern lediglich um den Sachverhalt, dass mit "Waffen", die in der Fachsprache dieser Sportart übrigens Markierer genannt werden, auf Menschen gezielt wird. Dieses Argument wird ja auch immer wieder vorgebracht, wenn es um die sogenannten "Killerspiele" geht. Meine Meinung hierzu ist, dass hier ein Missverständnis vorliegt. Ich kann Ihnen aus meiner eigenen Erfahrung versichern, dass es bei diesen Spielen, und ich meine hier sowohl Computerspiele als auch Paintball, nicht um das Töten geht, oder auch nur darum anderen Menschen Schaden zuzufügen. Das wird auch durch die oft sehr freundliche Atmosphäre deutlich, die bei Wettkämpfen herrscht. Im Fall der Computerspiele gehört es zum guten Ton, sich vor jeder Partie "Viel Spaß" zu wünschen, und sie mit einem "Gut gespielt" abzuschließen. Ich bin mir sicher, dass solche sportliche Höflichkeit auch im Paintball, wie in jeder anderen Sportart dazugehört, wobei es natürlich hier wie dort immer wieder zu Entgleisungen zwischen den Spielern kommt. Denken wir nur an die Szene zwischen Lukas Podolski und Michael Ballack. Dennoch spielt bei diesen Auseinandersetzungen der Wettkampf und das Spiel die Hauptrolle. Bedrohungen und Beschimpfungen, die sicherlich das Miteinander bestimmen würden, wenn es hier darum gehen würde das Töten zu simulieren, sind ein Ausnahmefall, den es aber ebenso in sozialen Netzwerken im Internet gibt, und deswegen nicht auf das Spiel zurückgeführt werden können. Da ich Sie, lieber Herr Kelber, nicht mit meinen Ausführungen langweilen möchte, will ich es hiermit dabei belassen festzuhalten, dass ich der Meinung bin, dass hier Sündenböcke geschaffen werden. Dies ist der beste Weg eine Verbesserung des eigentlichen Problems zu vermeiden.
"Sittenwidrig", um das Zitat ihres Kollegen nocheinmal aufzunehmen, finde ich es eher, dass die Bundesrepublik einer der größten Waffenexporteure der Welt ist und damit das Töten in viel größeren Konflikten perpetuiert. Wenn es der Politik wirklich um das Wohl jedes einzelnen gehen würde, böte sich meiner Meinung nach hier ein umkomplizierter Ansatzpunkt sich der Verantwortung für das Töten auf dieser Welt zu entziehen. Bei den in Deutschland hergestellten Waffen ist eine Diskussion um ihren Zweck nämlich überflüssig. Empfinden Sie es nicht als widersinnig, dass Deutschland mittlerweile an NATO-Einsätzen teilnimmt, bei denen eventuell deutsche Waffen auf deutsche Soldaten gerichtet werden? Dies jedoch ist ein ganz anderes Thema.
Ich hoffe, dass Sie diese Email lesen und ihren Inhalt bei der Abstimmung über das kommende Gesetz berücksichtigen werden. Für ein Gespräch zu diesem Thema bin ich jederzeit offen. Ich möchte noch anfügen, dass ich selbst kein Aktiver im Paintball bin.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
I know it's cheesy, but that's my idea of writing a letter to guys like him. I'm sure other people can do much better.
I love how the German goverment acts populistic and so far away from the real problems and then everybody wonders why young people in Germany are not interested in politics.
The same procedure as last school shooting, Miss Sophie? Same procedure as every school shooting James!
On May 07 2009 18:18 zatic wrote: It's very simple actually. It's election time, so they have to do something regarding the recent school shooting. Of course no one wants to touch the real guns that actually kill people, because there are 1.5 million voters registered in hunting and shooting clubs.
So they are looking for a pawn to sacrifice (does this expression exist in English btw?). Computer games have had the blame too often and have a strong lobby by now - paintball however is an obscure hobby with very little support.
But, rest assured paint ball players, nothing is going to happen. This is just elections. Banning paint ball was already on the last administrations agenda - nothing happened. Same here, as soon as the election are over, no one will talk about this anymore.
So germany has some wild cencoring going on when it comes to computer games and it seems like after those rules got implemented they had school shootings. Might be a connection there.
On May 07 2009 22:09 xJacky wrote: the word is scapegoat?
No, scapegoat has a different meaning, that's why I was asking. I just hadn't heard the sacrificial pawn expression in English before, whereas it is a very common term in German.
On May 07 2009 22:09 xJacky wrote: the word is scapegoat?
No, scapegoat has a different meaning, that's why I was asking. I just hadn't heard the sacrificial pawn expression in English before, whereas it is a very common term in German.
What you're talking about is in fact "scapegoating."
Scapegoating is the act of holding a person, group of people, or thing responsible for a multitude of problems.
On May 07 2009 22:09 xJacky wrote: the word is scapegoat?
No, scapegoat has a different meaning, that's why I was asking. I just hadn't heard the sacrificial pawn expression in English before, whereas it is a very common term in German.
What you're talking about is in fact "scapegoating."
On May 07 2009 22:09 xJacky wrote: the word is scapegoat?
No, scapegoat has a different meaning, that's why I was asking. I just hadn't heard the sacrificial pawn expression in English before, whereas it is a very common term in German.
What you're talking about is in fact "scapegoating."
Scapegoating is the act of holding a person, group of people, or thing responsible for a multitude of problems.
Stop correcting him when what he said in the first place wasn't wrong
So they are looking for a pawn to sacrifice (does this expression exist in English btw?).
On May 07 2009 22:09 xJacky wrote: the word is scapegoat?
No, scapegoat has a different meaning, that's why I was asking. I just hadn't heard the sacrificial pawn expression in English before, whereas it is a very common term in German.
What you're talking about is in fact "scapegoating."
Scapegoating is the act of holding a person, group of people, or thing responsible for a multitude of problems.
I don't think so. Especially since zatic himself said that he didn't mean scapegoating. What he might have meant is that the government were willing to sacrifice the vote of paintballers in order to gain more votes from the rest of the voters. The paintballers being the pawn, the rest of the voters being the higher value piece in chess... something like that :D
On May 07 2009 22:09 xJacky wrote: the word is scapegoat?
No, scapegoat has a different meaning, that's why I was asking. I just hadn't heard the sacrificial pawn expression in English before, whereas it is a very common term in German.
What you're talking about is in fact "scapegoating."
Scapegoating is the act of holding a person, group of people, or thing responsible for a multitude of problems.
Stop correcting him when what he said in the first place wasn't wrong
So they are looking for a pawn to sacrifice (does this expression exist in English btw?).
Yes.
It's generally called Scapegoating.
Well actually, the term in English is "sacrificial lamb" and it is not the same as "scapegoating".
A scapegoat has blame and guilt heaped upon him, and is outcast in order to benefit the community, taking blame and guilt away. A sacrificial lamb is made as concession to appease a third party, eg, thrown to the wolves.
Seriously, I loathe politics and politicians in general. How can they, with their sanity and conscience intact, blame the market for short sightedness when they propose something like this? Even if such a law is never passed, this is still a disgrace to... well, to everything good.
On May 07 2009 22:09 xJacky wrote: the word is scapegoat?
No, scapegoat has a different meaning, that's why I was asking. I just hadn't heard the sacrificial pawn expression in English before, whereas it is a very common term in German.
What you're talking about is in fact "scapegoating."
Scapegoating is the act of holding a person, group of people, or thing responsible for a multitude of problems.
I don't think so. Especially since zatic himself said that he didn't mean scapegoating. What he might have meant is that the government were willing to sacrifice the vote of paintballers in order to gain more votes from the rest of the voters. The paintballers being the pawn, the rest of the voters being the higher value piece in chess... something like that :D
100% correct.
Anyway I didn't want to spawn an off-topic discussion about semantics. The point is this is just a tactical move in election times where the votes of the gun lobby count. It's just words. Paint ball will not be banned, nobody wants that. And if you follow the discussion you can see that this time the media does not fall for it. This will likely backfire.
Well I've never felt influenced by any action they took (if they did) after one of the schoolshootings. So I guess this time there won't be changed anything as usual. Don't get people getting crazy (especially on the internet) over politicians using such things as short boost for the next elections. Happens with any other thing like daily.
I would not have it any other way. If there weren't unnecessary regulations and bureaucratic inflexibility around every corner, it wouldn't be the Germany I know and love.
If you let German kids play too wildly, they may grow up to be childish Anglo-American goofballs cracking politically incorrect jokes.
Hey, my MdB got back to me. Here's his response: + Show Spoiler +
Vielen Dank für Ihre Email zu den geplanten Änderungen des Waffenrechts und zum Paintball-Verbot.
Die geplanten Änderungen was die Aufbewahrung von Waffen, die unangekündigten Kontrollen und die Regelungen zum Umgang mit großkalibrigen Waffen angeht halte ich für sinnvoll und unterstützenswert. Bei den großkalibrigen Waffen setze ich mich sogar für Verbote des Besitzes für "Sportzwecke" ein. Das Paintball-Verbot ist in der Tat ein überflüssiger symbolischer Akt, den ich heute in der Fraktion massiv kritisiert habe.
Sollte ich mich mit dieser Ablehnung öffentlich nicht durchsetzen, werde ich dennoch dem Gesetzentwurf zustimmen, weil die anderen Punkte in ihrer Bedeutung überwiegen.
Recht gebe ich unumschränkt, wenn es um den Waffenexport aus Deutschland geht. Die Nachricht, dass wir inzwischen drittgrößter Waffenexporteur weltweit sind, hat mich auch beschämt und verärgert, dazu werden wir in der Fraktion auch sicher noch das Gespräch suchen. Helmut Schmidt hat das bei seinem Besuch in der letzten Sitzungswoche zu Recht als "Skandal" bezeichnet.
Mit freundlichem Gruß Ulrich Kelber
Basically he says that he too thinks that the ban of paintball is a superfluous symbolic act. Then he says that he's going to vote for the act nonetheless because the other points in it are more important.
On May 14 2009 19:54 zatic wrote: Surprise surprise, today the administration announced they will not go ahead with the ban of paint ball before the election.
A couple of representatives were quoted that they got hundreds of letters and emails protesting against the ban. Good job citizens.