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Valhalla18444 Posts
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i'll watch it and report back tomorrow
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lol
i like ghastly as an adjective
maybe i'll take you up on this
timewise tho i don't have a lot of it.
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I watched about 30 mins of this and my brain is about to explode.
MONEY =/= DEBT
Accounting 101 do you know it?
Assets = Liability + Stockholder's Equity.
If business is active, the banks with excess reserves probably will have opportunities to loan the $9,000. Of course, they do not really pay out loans from the money they receive as deposits. If they did this, no additional money would be created. What they do when they make loans is to accept promissory notes in exchange for credits to the borrowers' transaction accounts. Loans (assets) and deposits (liabilities) both rise by $9,000.
This quote from the video is taken COMPLETELY out of context. The text is viewing the banking system as one collective whole to which the Fed lends, so that $9,000 is money that is input to the system as a whole. Also, the Fed does not lend like commercial lending, the Fed credits the fractional reserve of a designated bank, so if the bank hands out loans from it's deposit account, rather than the excess from the reserve, money would DISAPPEAR from the system.
Spend two hours reading this instead of watching that stupid video.
http://www.fdrs.org/modern_money_mechanics.html#1 When
They are actually comparing it to slavery LOL?
P.S. Gonna finish the video for hilarity.
HAHAHA, they are against privatization? OH LAWD
ROFL YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS. They are now taking a stance against trade. That's right, fight corporate competition!
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On October 05 2008 16:52 mahnini wrote:I watched about 30 mins of this and my brain is about to explode. MONEY =/= DEBT Accounting 101 do you know it? Assets = Liability + Stockholder's Equity. Show nested quote +If business is active, the banks with excess reserves probably will have opportunities to loan the $9,000. Of course, they do not really pay out loans from the money they receive as deposits. If they did this, no additional money would be created. What they do when they make loans is to accept promissory notes in exchange for credits to the borrowers' transaction accounts. Loans (assets) and deposits (liabilities) both rise by $9,000. This quote from the video is taken COMPLETELY out of context. The text is viewing the banking system as one collective whole to which the Fed lends, so that $9,000 is money that is input to the system as a whole. Also, the Fed does not lend like commercial lending, the Fed credits the fractional reserve of a designated bank, so if the bank hands out loans from it's deposit account, rather than the excess from the reserve, money would DISAPPEAR from the system. Spend two hours reading this instead of watching that stupid video. http://www.fdrs.org/modern_money_mechanics.html#1 WhenThey are actually comparing it to slavery LOL? P.S. Gonna finish the video for hilarity.
Could you clarify? I can't understand what you are saying. Its not controversial that money is debt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_creation#Money_multiplier
If you look at the graph to the right, the original $100 is money, and the additional $900 created by loans from banks is debt, in other words its money type #2 here,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_supply#Fractional-reserve_banking
that site you linked to is actually a conspiracy site, lol
http://www.fdrs.org/money_creation.html
edit: btw mahnini, if the first 30 minutes are that rough on you, the last half of the movie will blow you away
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On October 05 2008 17:16 fight_or_flight wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2008 16:52 mahnini wrote:I watched about 30 mins of this and my brain is about to explode. MONEY =/= DEBT Accounting 101 do you know it? Assets = Liability + Stockholder's Equity. If business is active, the banks with excess reserves probably will have opportunities to loan the $9,000. Of course, they do not really pay out loans from the money they receive as deposits. If they did this, no additional money would be created. What they do when they make loans is to accept promissory notes in exchange for credits to the borrowers' transaction accounts. Loans (assets) and deposits (liabilities) both rise by $9,000. This quote from the video is taken COMPLETELY out of context. The text is viewing the banking system as one collective whole to which the Fed lends, so that $9,000 is money that is input to the system as a whole. Also, the Fed does not lend like commercial lending, the Fed credits the fractional reserve of a designated bank, so if the bank hands out loans from it's deposit account, rather than the excess from the reserve, money would DISAPPEAR from the system. Spend two hours reading this instead of watching that stupid video. http://www.fdrs.org/modern_money_mechanics.html#1 WhenThey are actually comparing it to slavery LOL? P.S. Gonna finish the video for hilarity. Could you clarify? I can't understand what you are saying. Its not controversial that money is debt. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_creation#Money_multiplierIf you look at the graph to the right, the original $100 is money, and the additional $900 created by loans from banks is debt, in other words its money type #2 here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_supply#Fractional-reserve_bankingthat site you linked to is actually a conspiracy site, lol http://www.fdrs.org/money_creation.htmledit: btw mahnini, if the first 30 minutes are that rough on you, the last half of the movie will blow you away
hey, how about when you buy food. you pay the guy money, you eat the food, then it's gone. does that mean, as a result of you eating the food, money was created in the system?
OH SHIT EVERYONE STOP EATING, EATING = DEBT
my point is just because the bank is selling an intangible service for profit doesnt mean money = debt. just like the guy who made your food makes profit from the actual making of food which in and of itself holds no value.
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Money is only created if you buy that food on a credit card. The only way money is created is if its borrowed. This is because the bank loans out money based by backing the loan with someone else's deposits.
I deposit $100, the bank loans out $90. Someone else deposits $90, the bank loans out $81, so on and so forth. This is a geometric sum, which adds up the the money multiplier from the wiki entry.
edit:
The problem is that they collect interest on that money. Just increasing the money supply isn't necessarily a bad thing. But, since the money supply is actually based on loans, it must be paid back with interest. But how do you pay the entire money supply back with interest? It is all the money in existence after all......the answer is that more people must take out loans to increase the money supply. So the money supply increases exponentially, which is unsustainable. See graph below for real data. Note: only currency is not debt-money.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_supply#Fractional-reserve_banking
The fed stopped publishing M3 in 2006.
What happens when it stops increasing exponentially? That means people are defaulting on their loans.
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On October 05 2008 17:48 fight_or_flight wrote:This man later changed his mind. (see first link in the OP for the discussion) Anyways, money is only created if you buy that food on a credit card. The only way money is created is if its borrowed. This is because the bank loans out money based by backing the loan with someone else's deposits. I deposit $100, the bank loans out $90. Someone else deposits $90, the bank loans out $81, so on and so forth. This is a geometric sum, which adds up the the money multiplier from the wiki entry. edit: The problem is that they collect interest on that money. Just increasing the money supply isn't necessarily a bad thing. But, since the money supply is actually based on loans, it must be paid back with interest. But how do you pay the entire money supply back with interest? It is all the money in existence after all......the answer is that more people must take out loans to increase the money supply. So the money supply increases exponentially, which is unsustainable. See graph below for real data. The fed stopped publishing M3 in 2006. What happens when it stops increasing exponentially? That means people are defaulting on their loans.
They charge interest for the money because the interest is their REVENUE for their SERVICE as well as opportunity cost. you see, people who give out the loans needs money too. so does the electric company which powers the servers,, water, lights, a/c, etc, etc. they arent creating money, the money is being paid for a SERVICE that they are providing. YOu pay the guy for the food supplies, as well as for his SERVICE of making the food.
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It was a really good movie. Compared to the first movie, it is more focused and it builds up to a broad singular message. Basically, the current monetary system is the root of every problem, and only when it's gone can we achieve "utopia" -- sustainable, resource-based, unbiased world. Of course it's idealistic and alarmist but that's what a good persuasive documentary is supposed to be like, IMO.
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On October 05 2008 18:03 mahnini wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2008 17:48 fight_or_flight wrote:On October 01 2008 16:39 ahrara_ wrote:
I'M JUST SAYING YOUR MOMMA = DEBT. This man later changed his mind. (see first link in the OP for the discussion) Anyways, money is only created if you buy that food on a credit card. The only way money is created is if its borrowed. This is because the bank loans out money based by backing the loan with someone else's deposits. I deposit $100, the bank loans out $90. Someone else deposits $90, the bank loans out $81, so on and so forth. This is a geometric sum, which adds up the the money multiplier from the wiki entry. edit: The problem is that they collect interest on that money. Just increasing the money supply isn't necessarily a bad thing. But, since the money supply is actually based on loans, it must be paid back with interest. But how do you pay the entire money supply back with interest? It is all the money in existence after all......the answer is that more people must take out loans to increase the money supply. So the money supply increases exponentially, which is unsustainable. See graph below for real data. The fed stopped publishing M3 in 2006. What happens when it stops increasing exponentially? That means people are defaulting on their loans. They charge interest for the money because the interest is their REVENUE for their SERVICE as well as opportunity cost. you see, people who give out the loans needs money too. so does the electric company which powers the servers,, water, lights, a/c, etc, etc. The money isn't disappearing, the money is being paid for a SERVICE that they are providing. YOu pay the guy for the food supplies, as well as for his SERVICE of making the food.
Yes.
But they aren't loaning out their money......they are loaning out other people's money. This greatly magnifies their power and causes the money system shown in that data. The money supply is like 50 or 60 trillion right now. I'm not saying making loans is a bad thing, but by loaning out other people's money, basically "creating money out of thin air", it causes a vicous cycle of new money needing to constantly be created at an exponential rate.
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what this video does is encourage massive ignorance and stupidity.
it goes from high school understanding of economics, to 15 year olds opinion of economic systems, to nut cases conspiracy of some crazy shit.
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Hey, I was posting this stuff before the movie came out.
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On October 05 2008 18:10 fight_or_flight wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2008 18:03 mahnini wrote:On October 05 2008 17:48 fight_or_flight wrote:On October 01 2008 16:39 ahrara_ wrote:
I'M JUST SAYING YOUR MOMMA = DEBT. This man later changed his mind. (see first link in the OP for the discussion) Anyways, money is only created if you buy that food on a credit card. The only way money is created is if its borrowed. This is because the bank loans out money based by backing the loan with someone else's deposits. I deposit $100, the bank loans out $90. Someone else deposits $90, the bank loans out $81, so on and so forth. This is a geometric sum, which adds up the the money multiplier from the wiki entry. edit: The problem is that they collect interest on that money. Just increasing the money supply isn't necessarily a bad thing. But, since the money supply is actually based on loans, it must be paid back with interest. But how do you pay the entire money supply back with interest? It is all the money in existence after all......the answer is that more people must take out loans to increase the money supply. So the money supply increases exponentially, which is unsustainable. See graph below for real data. The fed stopped publishing M3 in 2006. What happens when it stops increasing exponentially? That means people are defaulting on their loans. They charge interest for the money because the interest is their REVENUE for their SERVICE as well as opportunity cost. you see, people who give out the loans needs money too. so does the electric company which powers the servers,, water, lights, a/c, etc, etc. The money isn't disappearing, the money is being paid for a SERVICE that they are providing. YOu pay the guy for the food supplies, as well as for his SERVICE of making the food. Yes. But they aren't loaning out their money......they are loaning out other people's money. This greatly magnifies their power and causes the money system shown in that data. The money supply is like 50 or 60 trillion right now. I'm not saying making loans is a bad thing, but by loaning out other people's money, basically "creating money out of thin air", it causes a vicous cycle of new money needing to constantly be created at an exponential rate.
you aren't getting man. they are providing a SERVICE. you know those vaults they had to build, security they hire, security cameras, networks they build, network security, computers, software, employees, etc,etc,etc.
all this shit requires money. they also need profit. how is this creating money. all the money eventually goes back into the system.
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On October 05 2008 18:17 mahnini wrote:how is this creating money. all the money eventually goes back into the system.
Read the wikipedia articles about money creating. The fed doesn't create money (well, only a small %), private banks create money in the fractional reserve system.
edit: at interest
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On October 05 2008 18:24 fight_or_flight wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2008 18:17 mahnini wrote:how is this creating money. all the money eventually goes back into the system. Read the wikipedia articles about money creating. The fed doesn't create money (well, only a small %), private banks create money in the fractional reserve system.
you are SUCH an idiot.
by your definition anybody doing any kind of service is creating money. i knew a guy in elementary school who at bugs and shit for money. he didn't even have starting capital, he ate bugs and people gave him money. did he create money?
the guy who bags your groceries, did he create money? indian IT guy on the phone? guy who mows lawns? mailman? teachers?
THESE ARE ALL SERVICES, YOU PAY AN AMOUNT OF MONEY BUT GET NOTHING TANGIBLE IN RETURN. OMFG EVERYONE IS CREATING MONEY.
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On October 05 2008 18:30 mahnini wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2008 18:24 fight_or_flight wrote:On October 05 2008 18:17 mahnini wrote:how is this creating money. all the money eventually goes back into the system. Read the wikipedia articles about money creating. The fed doesn't create money (well, only a small %), private banks create money in the fractional reserve system. you are SUCH an idiot. by your definition anybody doing any kind of service is creating money. i knew a guy in elementary school who at bugs and shit for money. he didn't even have starting capital, he ate bugs and people gave him money. did he create money? the guy who bags your groceries, did he create money? indian IT guy on the phone? guy who mows lawns? mailman? teachers? THESE ARE ALL SERVICES, YOU PAY AN AMOUNT OF MONEY BUT GET NOTHING TANGIBLE IN RETURN. OMFG EVERYONE IS CREATING MONEY.
edit: don't want to be an asshole, but come on man.... you are on the verge of understanding. Third line of the wikipedia article on money creation.
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On October 05 2008 18:37 fight_or_flight wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2008 18:30 mahnini wrote:On October 05 2008 18:24 fight_or_flight wrote:On October 05 2008 18:17 mahnini wrote:how is this creating money. all the money eventually goes back into the system. Read the wikipedia articles about money creating. The fed doesn't create money (well, only a small %), private banks create money in the fractional reserve system. you are SUCH an idiot. by your definition anybody doing any kind of service is creating money. i knew a guy in elementary school who at bugs and shit for money. he didn't even have starting capital, he ate bugs and people gave him money. did he create money? the guy who bags your groceries, did he create money? indian IT guy on the phone? guy who mows lawns? mailman? teachers? THESE ARE ALL SERVICES, YOU PAY AN AMOUNT OF MONEY BUT GET NOTHING TANGIBLE IN RETURN. OMFG EVERYONE IS CREATING MONEY. print-screened for posterity
eat a dick retard
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I have watched most of this and of course it is quite accurate. There is one correction that i would make however, its more of a clarification really. This movie implies that the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund were created as an instrument of devious interests. In fact both these institutions were great in their conception and in their purpose.
They were basically the children of the famous economist Keynes (his policies are sorely missed today and this is a serious problem for the American economic system today). They were created to help out developing countries.
This was all well and good until whacked out America fanatic ideological zealots of economists managed to take over these institutions and used them to force their economic ideology onto developing nations who's economies promptly rolled over and died, the fate awaiting any unfortunate enough to wear their oppressive burden.
These same policies have been implemented in the United States particularly under the Bush administration and it is neither a surprise for a coincidence their economy is in serious trouble today.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/95/Components_of_the_United_States_money_supply2.svg/570px-Components_of_the_United_States_money_supply2.svg.png)
