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On November 04 2024 20:19 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2024 13:11 Husyelt wrote:On November 04 2024 00:26 Magic Powers wrote:
Foreign born nationals are barred from the positions of president, VP and SCOTUS. All other positions are up for grabs. I'm reading right now that anyone can become Secretary of State (e.g. Henry Kissinger and Madeleine Albright).
About Tesla: the only thing they're "pushing" is faulty software with major red flags and no confirmation of its safety. Their car models are lackluster and overpriced. They're far behind the curve and they keep falling further behind.
Twitter is hiding its stock value since Musk took over and privated it. My guess is stock is declining because otherwise I'd expect him to have bragged about its success by this point. His silence is deafening.
SpaceX is arguably the only productive company Musk has a major stake in. He doesn't work on this project (he doesn't have any of the required expertise), his employees do all the work while he sits back and spends his time spreading misinformation and hatred on Twitter. His only contribution to SpaceX is that he founded the company and owns it. That's literally it.
Musk is merely the face of capitalism. He's not an inventor of anything. as i already said above, im an ex fan of elons. i do want to push back against your SpaceX claim and his role here. while his role as "chief engineer" is laughable in terms of actually designing any part of the booster/avionics/second stage, what have you, he was involved heavily with how spacex became the giant in the industry. i would highly recommend the recent book "Re-entry" by Eric Berger. while most of the story is focused on the engineers within SpaceX, you can see pivotal moments and design philosophies that were chosen by Elon. even if we pretend he has zero expertise, or value for the company theres no denying that he has pushed that company forward with the clear blueprint of getting to reusable rockets. he made the decision to end the falcon 1 rocket in pursuit of the falcon 9 just months after the falcon 1 was successful. he saw where the market and contracts were moving. as spacex was getting the falcon 9 to be a very reliable rocket and sending cargo up to the ISS, they were iterating towards it landing on droneships and RTLS. he was focused on getting to that point. other rocket companies would have been just stoked to have a medium launch vehicle that was reliable. not spacex and not elon. always cheaper, and faster cadence. and to then even after theyve become a defacto monopoly through sheer skill, what does elon push them towards? Starship, whos goal is to make the Falcon and Dragon products irrelevant. traditional aerospace or companies in general are loathed to try and do something like that. so thats where I will still give elon credit. its that iterative design, first principles silicon valley style disruption philosophy which he baked into the dna of that company now, i do think post 2020 he could have fallen off the face of the earth and they would still be in a great position. they dont need him anymore, and if anything (as Eric Berger suggests in the books final chapter) he is practically the only one who could doom them or lose their extraordinary lead. my synopsis for him today is that he was half brilliant and half idiot, and either due to ketamine, or twitter brain rot has moved that 50/50 to more of a 10/90. but make no mistake he once was amazing at hiring engineers and people smarter than him, and also making them buy into crazy visions and accomplishing them. I appreciate the pushback. But I gotta say, I think Musk is a broken clock that's right twice a day. He could be extremely good and right about one thing in particular and I wouldn't care very much, because he's extremely bad and wrong about ninety other things. What later became PayPal was the result of a mess of an amteurish code that needed serious fixing. That code was his. He sold the company before he had a chance to drive it to ruin. The fact that he created SpaceX and spent tons of money on new, unproven tech is a consequence of his divergent mind - the same divergence which also leads him to support Trump, block Starlink from Ukraine, destroy his relationship with his transgender daughter, etc. He has a massive ego that explodes at the slightest touch. When the founders of Tesla didn't name him because he was merely one of the investors, he had a complete meltdown. Drove them out of the company and made himself the face of Tesla. He's a manchild.
you missed the content of my post, Elons decisions led to SpaceX's success, (even though currently I believe they are succeeding in spite of him). Elon wasnt the first dude to try and make a private aerospace company, and definitely not the smartest on paper. Andrew Beal was a wunderkind mathematician and created Beal Aerospace a few years before SpaceX, and spent 200 million trying to get his rocket off the ground. Musk got it to work with 100 million. You gotta drop the narrative that hes a hack fraud from the get go. Every insanely impressive aerospace company that is coming out these days uses SpaceX principles, (see Stoke Space now or before, Rocket Lab).
Peter Beck of Rocket Lab fame is definitely more impressive than Elon because he didnt have millions of dollars, and yet turned his Atea-1 rocket into a 6 billion dollar company... But you gotta give Elon pre 2019 his due. Even if he wasnt always brilliant at Tesla or his other ventures.
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Northern Ireland26265 Posts
On November 05 2024 12:22 Husyelt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2024 20:19 Magic Powers wrote:On November 04 2024 13:11 Husyelt wrote:On November 04 2024 00:26 Magic Powers wrote:
Foreign born nationals are barred from the positions of president, VP and SCOTUS. All other positions are up for grabs. I'm reading right now that anyone can become Secretary of State (e.g. Henry Kissinger and Madeleine Albright).
About Tesla: the only thing they're "pushing" is faulty software with major red flags and no confirmation of its safety. Their car models are lackluster and overpriced. They're far behind the curve and they keep falling further behind.
Twitter is hiding its stock value since Musk took over and privated it. My guess is stock is declining because otherwise I'd expect him to have bragged about its success by this point. His silence is deafening.
SpaceX is arguably the only productive company Musk has a major stake in. He doesn't work on this project (he doesn't have any of the required expertise), his employees do all the work while he sits back and spends his time spreading misinformation and hatred on Twitter. His only contribution to SpaceX is that he founded the company and owns it. That's literally it.
Musk is merely the face of capitalism. He's not an inventor of anything. as i already said above, im an ex fan of elons. i do want to push back against your SpaceX claim and his role here. while his role as "chief engineer" is laughable in terms of actually designing any part of the booster/avionics/second stage, what have you, he was involved heavily with how spacex became the giant in the industry. i would highly recommend the recent book "Re-entry" by Eric Berger. while most of the story is focused on the engineers within SpaceX, you can see pivotal moments and design philosophies that were chosen by Elon. even if we pretend he has zero expertise, or value for the company theres no denying that he has pushed that company forward with the clear blueprint of getting to reusable rockets. he made the decision to end the falcon 1 rocket in pursuit of the falcon 9 just months after the falcon 1 was successful. he saw where the market and contracts were moving. as spacex was getting the falcon 9 to be a very reliable rocket and sending cargo up to the ISS, they were iterating towards it landing on droneships and RTLS. he was focused on getting to that point. other rocket companies would have been just stoked to have a medium launch vehicle that was reliable. not spacex and not elon. always cheaper, and faster cadence. and to then even after theyve become a defacto monopoly through sheer skill, what does elon push them towards? Starship, whos goal is to make the Falcon and Dragon products irrelevant. traditional aerospace or companies in general are loathed to try and do something like that. so thats where I will still give elon credit. its that iterative design, first principles silicon valley style disruption philosophy which he baked into the dna of that company now, i do think post 2020 he could have fallen off the face of the earth and they would still be in a great position. they dont need him anymore, and if anything (as Eric Berger suggests in the books final chapter) he is practically the only one who could doom them or lose their extraordinary lead. my synopsis for him today is that he was half brilliant and half idiot, and either due to ketamine, or twitter brain rot has moved that 50/50 to more of a 10/90. but make no mistake he once was amazing at hiring engineers and people smarter than him, and also making them buy into crazy visions and accomplishing them. I appreciate the pushback. But I gotta say, I think Musk is a broken clock that's right twice a day. He could be extremely good and right about one thing in particular and I wouldn't care very much, because he's extremely bad and wrong about ninety other things. What later became PayPal was the result of a mess of an amteurish code that needed serious fixing. That code was his. He sold the company before he had a chance to drive it to ruin. The fact that he created SpaceX and spent tons of money on new, unproven tech is a consequence of his divergent mind - the same divergence which also leads him to support Trump, block Starlink from Ukraine, destroy his relationship with his transgender daughter, etc. He has a massive ego that explodes at the slightest touch. When the founders of Tesla didn't name him because he was merely one of the investors, he had a complete meltdown. Drove them out of the company and made himself the face of Tesla. He's a manchild. you missed the content of my post, Elons decisions led to SpaceX's success, (even though currently I believe they are succeeding in spite of him). Elon wasnt the first dude to try and make a private aerospace company, and definitely not the smartest on paper. Andrew Beal was a wunderkind mathematician and created Beal Aerospace a few years before SpaceX, and spent 200 million trying to get his rocket off the ground. Musk got it to work with 100 million. You gotta drop the narrative that hes a hack fraud from the get go. Every insanely impressive aerospace company that is coming out these days uses SpaceX principles, (see Stoke Space now or before, Rocket Lab). Peter Beck of Rocket Lab fame is definitely more impressive than Elon because he didnt have millions of dollars, and yet turned his Atea-1 rocket into a 6 billion dollar company... But you gotta give Elon pre 2019 his due. Even if he wasnt always brilliant at Tesla or his other ventures.
Based on various interactions, pick your favourites.
If those posters here who have sometimes intimidating intelligence got given the leg up initially Musk did, somehow flukes the PayPal thing and have fuck you money, do you think there’s not 10 on this forum alone who could do what Musk did with some good old US government money added to the bargain?
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On November 05 2024 12:43 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2024 12:22 Husyelt wrote:On November 04 2024 20:19 Magic Powers wrote:On November 04 2024 13:11 Husyelt wrote:On November 04 2024 00:26 Magic Powers wrote:
Foreign born nationals are barred from the positions of president, VP and SCOTUS. All other positions are up for grabs. I'm reading right now that anyone can become Secretary of State (e.g. Henry Kissinger and Madeleine Albright).
About Tesla: the only thing they're "pushing" is faulty software with major red flags and no confirmation of its safety. Their car models are lackluster and overpriced. They're far behind the curve and they keep falling further behind.
Twitter is hiding its stock value since Musk took over and privated it. My guess is stock is declining because otherwise I'd expect him to have bragged about its success by this point. His silence is deafening.
SpaceX is arguably the only productive company Musk has a major stake in. He doesn't work on this project (he doesn't have any of the required expertise), his employees do all the work while he sits back and spends his time spreading misinformation and hatred on Twitter. His only contribution to SpaceX is that he founded the company and owns it. That's literally it.
Musk is merely the face of capitalism. He's not an inventor of anything. as i already said above, im an ex fan of elons. i do want to push back against your SpaceX claim and his role here. while his role as "chief engineer" is laughable in terms of actually designing any part of the booster/avionics/second stage, what have you, he was involved heavily with how spacex became the giant in the industry. i would highly recommend the recent book "Re-entry" by Eric Berger. while most of the story is focused on the engineers within SpaceX, you can see pivotal moments and design philosophies that were chosen by Elon. even if we pretend he has zero expertise, or value for the company theres no denying that he has pushed that company forward with the clear blueprint of getting to reusable rockets. he made the decision to end the falcon 1 rocket in pursuit of the falcon 9 just months after the falcon 1 was successful. he saw where the market and contracts were moving. as spacex was getting the falcon 9 to be a very reliable rocket and sending cargo up to the ISS, they were iterating towards it landing on droneships and RTLS. he was focused on getting to that point. other rocket companies would have been just stoked to have a medium launch vehicle that was reliable. not spacex and not elon. always cheaper, and faster cadence. and to then even after theyve become a defacto monopoly through sheer skill, what does elon push them towards? Starship, whos goal is to make the Falcon and Dragon products irrelevant. traditional aerospace or companies in general are loathed to try and do something like that. so thats where I will still give elon credit. its that iterative design, first principles silicon valley style disruption philosophy which he baked into the dna of that company now, i do think post 2020 he could have fallen off the face of the earth and they would still be in a great position. they dont need him anymore, and if anything (as Eric Berger suggests in the books final chapter) he is practically the only one who could doom them or lose their extraordinary lead. my synopsis for him today is that he was half brilliant and half idiot, and either due to ketamine, or twitter brain rot has moved that 50/50 to more of a 10/90. but make no mistake he once was amazing at hiring engineers and people smarter than him, and also making them buy into crazy visions and accomplishing them. I appreciate the pushback. But I gotta say, I think Musk is a broken clock that's right twice a day. He could be extremely good and right about one thing in particular and I wouldn't care very much, because he's extremely bad and wrong about ninety other things. What later became PayPal was the result of a mess of an amteurish code that needed serious fixing. That code was his. He sold the company before he had a chance to drive it to ruin. The fact that he created SpaceX and spent tons of money on new, unproven tech is a consequence of his divergent mind - the same divergence which also leads him to support Trump, block Starlink from Ukraine, destroy his relationship with his transgender daughter, etc. He has a massive ego that explodes at the slightest touch. When the founders of Tesla didn't name him because he was merely one of the investors, he had a complete meltdown. Drove them out of the company and made himself the face of Tesla. He's a manchild. you missed the content of my post, Elons decisions led to SpaceX's success, (even though currently I believe they are succeeding in spite of him). Elon wasnt the first dude to try and make a private aerospace company, and definitely not the smartest on paper. Andrew Beal was a wunderkind mathematician and created Beal Aerospace a few years before SpaceX, and spent 200 million trying to get his rocket off the ground. Musk got it to work with 100 million. You gotta drop the narrative that hes a hack fraud from the get go. Every insanely impressive aerospace company that is coming out these days uses SpaceX principles, (see Stoke Space now or before, Rocket Lab). Peter Beck of Rocket Lab fame is definitely more impressive than Elon because he didnt have millions of dollars, and yet turned his Atea-1 rocket into a 6 billion dollar company... But you gotta give Elon pre 2019 his due. Even if he wasnt always brilliant at Tesla or his other ventures. Based on various interactions, pick your favourites. If those posters here who have sometimes intimidating intelligence got given the leg up initially Musk did, somehow flukes the PayPal thing and have fuck you money, do you think there’s not 10 on this forum alone who could do what Musk did with some good old US government money added to the bargain?
no, because they wouldnt have hired Tom Mueller and Shotwell and 200 other engineers who got the Falcon 1 rocket off the ground. Again, highly rec reading either Liftoff or Re-entry by Eric Berger. this isnt to say he didnt get mad lucky or that fortune hit that company at the correct times.
the fuck you money is nothing for aerospace which ive tried to assure others. 100 million dollars is scrap change in that industry. Heres NASA's 2.7 billion dollar launch tower. literally just a mobile launch tower. for a 2 billion dollar a launch rocket. aviationweek.com
the US government money spaceX won (and saved them to be fair in 06 and 08) were contracts won due to NASA looking at their proposals, and then spaceX executed them.
this doesnt mean hes an genius engineer, but that Elon was good once with managing a scrappy crew with a big vision. people here dont understand the true scale of things. ULA was Boeing and Lockheed merging to become a Monopoly. SpaceX mopped the floor with them and became the monopoly because they unlocked reusability and cadence upgrades.
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Northern Ireland26265 Posts
On November 05 2024 13:04 Husyelt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2024 12:43 WombaT wrote:On November 05 2024 12:22 Husyelt wrote:On November 04 2024 20:19 Magic Powers wrote:On November 04 2024 13:11 Husyelt wrote:On November 04 2024 00:26 Magic Powers wrote:
Foreign born nationals are barred from the positions of president, VP and SCOTUS. All other positions are up for grabs. I'm reading right now that anyone can become Secretary of State (e.g. Henry Kissinger and Madeleine Albright).
About Tesla: the only thing they're "pushing" is faulty software with major red flags and no confirmation of its safety. Their car models are lackluster and overpriced. They're far behind the curve and they keep falling further behind.
Twitter is hiding its stock value since Musk took over and privated it. My guess is stock is declining because otherwise I'd expect him to have bragged about its success by this point. His silence is deafening.
SpaceX is arguably the only productive company Musk has a major stake in. He doesn't work on this project (he doesn't have any of the required expertise), his employees do all the work while he sits back and spends his time spreading misinformation and hatred on Twitter. His only contribution to SpaceX is that he founded the company and owns it. That's literally it.
Musk is merely the face of capitalism. He's not an inventor of anything. as i already said above, im an ex fan of elons. i do want to push back against your SpaceX claim and his role here. while his role as "chief engineer" is laughable in terms of actually designing any part of the booster/avionics/second stage, what have you, he was involved heavily with how spacex became the giant in the industry. i would highly recommend the recent book "Re-entry" by Eric Berger. while most of the story is focused on the engineers within SpaceX, you can see pivotal moments and design philosophies that were chosen by Elon. even if we pretend he has zero expertise, or value for the company theres no denying that he has pushed that company forward with the clear blueprint of getting to reusable rockets. he made the decision to end the falcon 1 rocket in pursuit of the falcon 9 just months after the falcon 1 was successful. he saw where the market and contracts were moving. as spacex was getting the falcon 9 to be a very reliable rocket and sending cargo up to the ISS, they were iterating towards it landing on droneships and RTLS. he was focused on getting to that point. other rocket companies would have been just stoked to have a medium launch vehicle that was reliable. not spacex and not elon. always cheaper, and faster cadence. and to then even after theyve become a defacto monopoly through sheer skill, what does elon push them towards? Starship, whos goal is to make the Falcon and Dragon products irrelevant. traditional aerospace or companies in general are loathed to try and do something like that. so thats where I will still give elon credit. its that iterative design, first principles silicon valley style disruption philosophy which he baked into the dna of that company now, i do think post 2020 he could have fallen off the face of the earth and they would still be in a great position. they dont need him anymore, and if anything (as Eric Berger suggests in the books final chapter) he is practically the only one who could doom them or lose their extraordinary lead. my synopsis for him today is that he was half brilliant and half idiot, and either due to ketamine, or twitter brain rot has moved that 50/50 to more of a 10/90. but make no mistake he once was amazing at hiring engineers and people smarter than him, and also making them buy into crazy visions and accomplishing them. I appreciate the pushback. But I gotta say, I think Musk is a broken clock that's right twice a day. He could be extremely good and right about one thing in particular and I wouldn't care very much, because he's extremely bad and wrong about ninety other things. What later became PayPal was the result of a mess of an amteurish code that needed serious fixing. That code was his. He sold the company before he had a chance to drive it to ruin. The fact that he created SpaceX and spent tons of money on new, unproven tech is a consequence of his divergent mind - the same divergence which also leads him to support Trump, block Starlink from Ukraine, destroy his relationship with his transgender daughter, etc. He has a massive ego that explodes at the slightest touch. When the founders of Tesla didn't name him because he was merely one of the investors, he had a complete meltdown. Drove them out of the company and made himself the face of Tesla. He's a manchild. you missed the content of my post, Elons decisions led to SpaceX's success, (even though currently I believe they are succeeding in spite of him). Elon wasnt the first dude to try and make a private aerospace company, and definitely not the smartest on paper. Andrew Beal was a wunderkind mathematician and created Beal Aerospace a few years before SpaceX, and spent 200 million trying to get his rocket off the ground. Musk got it to work with 100 million. You gotta drop the narrative that hes a hack fraud from the get go. Every insanely impressive aerospace company that is coming out these days uses SpaceX principles, (see Stoke Space now or before, Rocket Lab). Peter Beck of Rocket Lab fame is definitely more impressive than Elon because he didnt have millions of dollars, and yet turned his Atea-1 rocket into a 6 billion dollar company... But you gotta give Elon pre 2019 his due. Even if he wasnt always brilliant at Tesla or his other ventures. Based on various interactions, pick your favourites. If those posters here who have sometimes intimidating intelligence got given the leg up initially Musk did, somehow flukes the PayPal thing and have fuck you money, do you think there’s not 10 on this forum alone who could do what Musk did with some good old US government money added to the bargain? no, because they wouldnt have hired Tom Mueller and Shotwell and 200 other engineers who got the Falcon 1 rocket off the ground. Again, highly rec reading either Liftoff or Re-entry by Eric Berger. this isnt to say he didnt get mad lucky or that fortune hit that company at the correct times. the fuck you money is nothing for aerospace which ive tried to assure others. 100 million dollars is scrap change in that industry. Heres NASA's 2.7 billion dollar launch tower. literally just a mobile launch tower. for a 2 billion dollar a launch rocket. aviationweek.comthe US government money spaceX won (and saved them to be fair in 06 and 08) were contracts won due to NASA looking at their proposals, and then spaceX executed them. this doesnt mean hes an genius engineer, but that Elon was good once with managing a scrappy crew with a big vision. people here dont understand the true scale of things. ULA was Boeing and Lockheed merging to become a Monopoly. SpaceX mopped the floor with them and became the monopoly because they unlocked reusability and cadence upgrades.
How did he find those people? Why can’t he do it with Twitter?
Management, I think one has to give some credit there.
But it’s not super hard to headhunt elite space engineers because well, there’s not that many of them going.
It’s an obvious problem with pretty obvious solutions, and a pretty limited subset of people who can solve it. Hard solutions sure, but it’s pretty obvious who to hand them off to.
Tesla is somewhere in the middle so some credit there, but you give him a complex problem, without obvious personnel solutions, or an obvious strategic solution and he can’t do it
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On November 05 2024 12:43 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2024 12:22 Husyelt wrote:On November 04 2024 20:19 Magic Powers wrote:On November 04 2024 13:11 Husyelt wrote:On November 04 2024 00:26 Magic Powers wrote:
Foreign born nationals are barred from the positions of president, VP and SCOTUS. All other positions are up for grabs. I'm reading right now that anyone can become Secretary of State (e.g. Henry Kissinger and Madeleine Albright).
About Tesla: the only thing they're "pushing" is faulty software with major red flags and no confirmation of its safety. Their car models are lackluster and overpriced. They're far behind the curve and they keep falling further behind.
Twitter is hiding its stock value since Musk took over and privated it. My guess is stock is declining because otherwise I'd expect him to have bragged about its success by this point. His silence is deafening.
SpaceX is arguably the only productive company Musk has a major stake in. He doesn't work on this project (he doesn't have any of the required expertise), his employees do all the work while he sits back and spends his time spreading misinformation and hatred on Twitter. His only contribution to SpaceX is that he founded the company and owns it. That's literally it.
Musk is merely the face of capitalism. He's not an inventor of anything. as i already said above, im an ex fan of elons. i do want to push back against your SpaceX claim and his role here. while his role as "chief engineer" is laughable in terms of actually designing any part of the booster/avionics/second stage, what have you, he was involved heavily with how spacex became the giant in the industry. i would highly recommend the recent book "Re-entry" by Eric Berger. while most of the story is focused on the engineers within SpaceX, you can see pivotal moments and design philosophies that were chosen by Elon. even if we pretend he has zero expertise, or value for the company theres no denying that he has pushed that company forward with the clear blueprint of getting to reusable rockets. he made the decision to end the falcon 1 rocket in pursuit of the falcon 9 just months after the falcon 1 was successful. he saw where the market and contracts were moving. as spacex was getting the falcon 9 to be a very reliable rocket and sending cargo up to the ISS, they were iterating towards it landing on droneships and RTLS. he was focused on getting to that point. other rocket companies would have been just stoked to have a medium launch vehicle that was reliable. not spacex and not elon. always cheaper, and faster cadence. and to then even after theyve become a defacto monopoly through sheer skill, what does elon push them towards? Starship, whos goal is to make the Falcon and Dragon products irrelevant. traditional aerospace or companies in general are loathed to try and do something like that. so thats where I will still give elon credit. its that iterative design, first principles silicon valley style disruption philosophy which he baked into the dna of that company now, i do think post 2020 he could have fallen off the face of the earth and they would still be in a great position. they dont need him anymore, and if anything (as Eric Berger suggests in the books final chapter) he is practically the only one who could doom them or lose their extraordinary lead. my synopsis for him today is that he was half brilliant and half idiot, and either due to ketamine, or twitter brain rot has moved that 50/50 to more of a 10/90. but make no mistake he once was amazing at hiring engineers and people smarter than him, and also making them buy into crazy visions and accomplishing them. I appreciate the pushback. But I gotta say, I think Musk is a broken clock that's right twice a day. He could be extremely good and right about one thing in particular and I wouldn't care very much, because he's extremely bad and wrong about ninety other things. What later became PayPal was the result of a mess of an amteurish code that needed serious fixing. That code was his. He sold the company before he had a chance to drive it to ruin. The fact that he created SpaceX and spent tons of money on new, unproven tech is a consequence of his divergent mind - the same divergence which also leads him to support Trump, block Starlink from Ukraine, destroy his relationship with his transgender daughter, etc. He has a massive ego that explodes at the slightest touch. When the founders of Tesla didn't name him because he was merely one of the investors, he had a complete meltdown. Drove them out of the company and made himself the face of Tesla. He's a manchild. you missed the content of my post, Elons decisions led to SpaceX's success, (even though currently I believe they are succeeding in spite of him). Elon wasnt the first dude to try and make a private aerospace company, and definitely not the smartest on paper. Andrew Beal was a wunderkind mathematician and created Beal Aerospace a few years before SpaceX, and spent 200 million trying to get his rocket off the ground. Musk got it to work with 100 million. You gotta drop the narrative that hes a hack fraud from the get go. Every insanely impressive aerospace company that is coming out these days uses SpaceX principles, (see Stoke Space now or before, Rocket Lab). Peter Beck of Rocket Lab fame is definitely more impressive than Elon because he didnt have millions of dollars, and yet turned his Atea-1 rocket into a 6 billion dollar company... But you gotta give Elon pre 2019 his due. Even if he wasnt always brilliant at Tesla or his other ventures. do you think there’s not 10 on this forum alone who could do what Musk did with some good old US government money added to the bargain?
For sure I would have colonized Mars already if my dad had a stake in an emerald mine
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And how can you brush off the PayPal thing like that? The PayPal maffia - tiel, musk etc. - could be called many things. But incompetent isn’t one of them. I don’t think it is so difficult to imagine a person being both brilliant when it comes to creating companies, as well as understanding technical and economic issues, while at the same time being a narcissist (I think that’s pretty obviously the case of musk) or a bad person (I don’t know if that’s the case).
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On November 05 2024 09:26 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2024 23:51 gobbledydook wrote:
I think Musk has great conviction in what he believes and will not be stopped by anything. Hence his ability to lead the way in groundbreaking industries such as electric cars and space travel.
Unfortunately his great conviction also makes him a giant asshole, because he can’t take no for an answer and will never admit that he is wrong.
Too many people on the left dismiss his achievements because he is an asshole who disagrees with them currently, and too many people on the right idolise him wihile dismissing the fact that he is an asshole who says some abhorrent things. Also all his wealth and achievements have come from direct government intervention and buckets of taxpayer cash, to companies started with the wealth from his Minnesotan parents who got the opportunity to own an apartheid emerald mine. Yet his narrative is that hes a self made billionare whos self started these massive companies and won in the market because they were so groundbreaking and innovative. Every time he talks about something great his company did it always comes off as someone having to spend hours explaining basic things to him, when he doesn't have that like with twitter he gets exposed as being a fraud. The cybertruck being a massive failure because of the very clear influences he had on it and the things he seems really interested in alongside the massive self-sabotage of self driving proves this. Being the guy that says "yeah engineers go do whatever you want we have the money" can work really well when you've got the american taxpayer footing the bill.
While all true, there is a bunch of rich kids with rich parents but they are currently not the richest kids on earth.
I think we all agree on Elon beeing an ass human beeing. I still stand by my point that he is/ was a great business man though. Extracting money from the government legally! and officially! and making it your own seems smart business. Just like surrounding yourself with smart people and letting them build smart things.
No doubt some of his most recent pushes and decisions are, like you mentioned are , very dumb. Probably his big ego is driving the bus now. And people telling him he is so super getting in his head even more.
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On November 05 2024 12:43 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2024 12:22 Husyelt wrote:On November 04 2024 20:19 Magic Powers wrote:On November 04 2024 13:11 Husyelt wrote:On November 04 2024 00:26 Magic Powers wrote:
Foreign born nationals are barred from the positions of president, VP and SCOTUS. All other positions are up for grabs. I'm reading right now that anyone can become Secretary of State (e.g. Henry Kissinger and Madeleine Albright).
About Tesla: the only thing they're "pushing" is faulty software with major red flags and no confirmation of its safety. Their car models are lackluster and overpriced. They're far behind the curve and they keep falling further behind.
Twitter is hiding its stock value since Musk took over and privated it. My guess is stock is declining because otherwise I'd expect him to have bragged about its success by this point. His silence is deafening.
SpaceX is arguably the only productive company Musk has a major stake in. He doesn't work on this project (he doesn't have any of the required expertise), his employees do all the work while he sits back and spends his time spreading misinformation and hatred on Twitter. His only contribution to SpaceX is that he founded the company and owns it. That's literally it.
Musk is merely the face of capitalism. He's not an inventor of anything. as i already said above, im an ex fan of elons. i do want to push back against your SpaceX claim and his role here. while his role as "chief engineer" is laughable in terms of actually designing any part of the booster/avionics/second stage, what have you, he was involved heavily with how spacex became the giant in the industry. i would highly recommend the recent book "Re-entry" by Eric Berger. while most of the story is focused on the engineers within SpaceX, you can see pivotal moments and design philosophies that were chosen by Elon. even if we pretend he has zero expertise, or value for the company theres no denying that he has pushed that company forward with the clear blueprint of getting to reusable rockets. he made the decision to end the falcon 1 rocket in pursuit of the falcon 9 just months after the falcon 1 was successful. he saw where the market and contracts were moving. as spacex was getting the falcon 9 to be a very reliable rocket and sending cargo up to the ISS, they were iterating towards it landing on droneships and RTLS. he was focused on getting to that point. other rocket companies would have been just stoked to have a medium launch vehicle that was reliable. not spacex and not elon. always cheaper, and faster cadence. and to then even after theyve become a defacto monopoly through sheer skill, what does elon push them towards? Starship, whos goal is to make the Falcon and Dragon products irrelevant. traditional aerospace or companies in general are loathed to try and do something like that. so thats where I will still give elon credit. its that iterative design, first principles silicon valley style disruption philosophy which he baked into the dna of that company now, i do think post 2020 he could have fallen off the face of the earth and they would still be in a great position. they dont need him anymore, and if anything (as Eric Berger suggests in the books final chapter) he is practically the only one who could doom them or lose their extraordinary lead. my synopsis for him today is that he was half brilliant and half idiot, and either due to ketamine, or twitter brain rot has moved that 50/50 to more of a 10/90. but make no mistake he once was amazing at hiring engineers and people smarter than him, and also making them buy into crazy visions and accomplishing them. I appreciate the pushback. But I gotta say, I think Musk is a broken clock that's right twice a day. He could be extremely good and right about one thing in particular and I wouldn't care very much, because he's extremely bad and wrong about ninety other things. What later became PayPal was the result of a mess of an amteurish code that needed serious fixing. That code was his. He sold the company before he had a chance to drive it to ruin. The fact that he created SpaceX and spent tons of money on new, unproven tech is a consequence of his divergent mind - the same divergence which also leads him to support Trump, block Starlink from Ukraine, destroy his relationship with his transgender daughter, etc. He has a massive ego that explodes at the slightest touch. When the founders of Tesla didn't name him because he was merely one of the investors, he had a complete meltdown. Drove them out of the company and made himself the face of Tesla. He's a manchild. you missed the content of my post, Elons decisions led to SpaceX's success, (even though currently I believe they are succeeding in spite of him). Elon wasnt the first dude to try and make a private aerospace company, and definitely not the smartest on paper. Andrew Beal was a wunderkind mathematician and created Beal Aerospace a few years before SpaceX, and spent 200 million trying to get his rocket off the ground. Musk got it to work with 100 million. You gotta drop the narrative that hes a hack fraud from the get go. Every insanely impressive aerospace company that is coming out these days uses SpaceX principles, (see Stoke Space now or before, Rocket Lab). Peter Beck of Rocket Lab fame is definitely more impressive than Elon because he didnt have millions of dollars, and yet turned his Atea-1 rocket into a 6 billion dollar company... But you gotta give Elon pre 2019 his due. Even if he wasnt always brilliant at Tesla or his other ventures. Based on various interactions, pick your favourites. If those posters here who have sometimes intimidating intelligence got given the leg up initially Musk did, somehow flukes the PayPal thing and have fuck you money, do you think there’s not 10 on this forum alone who could do what Musk did with some good old US government money added to the bargain?
No, definitely not on these forums. 
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I mean Harris1st has it right.
And we can all call Musk dumb, idiot, asshole, and whatever we want, but even if any of us had his resources throughout life, i doubt any of could achieve what he has. That includes me, and i think i am almost the most intelligent person on the earth.
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From my POV Musk seems like a smart business man who exceeded his actual ability to get things done.
His level was Paypal.
Everything since then seems to be this weird mix of innovation, disaster and Musk screwing things by generally being outrageous rather than doing what he's good at.
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Do you really think Musk has disastered everything after PayPal?
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On November 05 2024 18:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Do you really think Musk has disastered everything after PayPal?
Not everything.
He's put an awful lot of money into innovation, and that is great.
He's completely fucked Twitter, which could also be seen as great I suppose, and Tesla has definitely had its ups and downs, and would be completely fucked also if it wasn't for Musk's ability to find hundreds of billions lying around for him to use.
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May i ask you why/how exactly has he completely fucked up twitter?
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On November 05 2024 18:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:
May i ask you why exactly has he completely fucked up twitter?
Why or how?
Why?
No idea
How?
War with advertisers who provide Twitter's income, participating in and encouraging all the absolute worst aspects of Twitter (making it a pretty hostile and unwelcoming place), just general Musk behaviour.
Twitter's value has fallen 71% since Musk took over.
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On November 05 2024 18:58 Jockmcplop wrote:
How?
War with advertisers who provide Twitter's income, participating in and encouraging all the absolute worst aspects of Twitter (making it a pretty hostile and unwelcoming place), just general Musk behaviour.
Twitter's value has fallen 71% since Musk took over.
Yeah this is what i was asking
What does it to you, mean that "making it a pretty hostile and unwelcoming place"?
I know about the value fall, that's not really my point.
E: I mean like should Twitter be more censored (like before)?
Should it be censored in a certain way?
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On November 05 2024 18:53 Jockmcplop wrote:
[...]Tesla has definitely had its ups and downs, and would be completely fucked also if it wasn't for Musk's ability to find hundreds of billions lying around for him to use.
Isn't this a good thing?
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On November 05 2024 18:53 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2024 18:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Do you really think Musk has disastered everything after PayPal? and would be completely fucked also if it wasn't for Musk's ability to find hundreds of billions lying around for him to use.
What does that even mean?
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On November 05 2024 19:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2024 18:58 Jockmcplop wrote:
How?
War with advertisers who provide Twitter's income, participating in and encouraging all the absolute worst aspects of Twitter (making it a pretty hostile and unwelcoming place), just general Musk behaviour.
Twitter's value has fallen 71% since Musk took over. Yeah this is what i was asking What does it to you, mean that "making it a pretty hostile and unwelcoming place"? I know about the value fall, that's not really my point. E: I mean like should Twitter be more censored (like before)? Should it be censored in a certain way?
TBH I don't use it, never really have. I only have an account to keep up with football news.
From what I hear the censorship now is as rife as it was before, but with a different focus (keeping lefty hate off there instead of right wing hate).
People talk about it being worse than it used to be, but then those are people who i listen to, I suppose its just as 'good' for other groups of people.
Honestly it has its uses for things like the football I mentioned, but when it comes to current events, its universally seen as a terrible place that indulges everyone's worst instincts.
This has always been true, but I do get the feeling its worse now than ever before. Its basically a internet post-apocalypse full of roaming gangs of morons all trying to screw each other over.
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On November 05 2024 19:19 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2024 19:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 05 2024 18:58 Jockmcplop wrote:
How?
War with advertisers who provide Twitter's income, participating in and encouraging all the absolute worst aspects of Twitter (making it a pretty hostile and unwelcoming place), just general Musk behaviour.
Twitter's value has fallen 71% since Musk took over. Yeah this is what i was asking What does it to you, mean that "making it a pretty hostile and unwelcoming place"? I know about the value fall, that's not really my point. E: I mean like should Twitter be more censored (like before)? Should it be censored in a certain way? TBH I don't use it, never really have. I only have an account to keep up with football news. From what I hear the censorship now is as rife as it was before, but with a different focus (keeping lefty hate off there instead of right wing hate). People talk about it being worse than it used to be, but then those are people who i listen to, I suppose its just as 'good' for other groups of people. Honestly it has its uses for things like the football I mentioned, but when it comes to current events, its universally seen as a terrible place that indulges everyone's worst instincts. This has always been true, but I do get the feeling its worse now than ever before. Its basically a internet post-apocalypse full of roaming gangs of morons all trying to screw each other over.
I also use it to read shit. Almost never post.
From what you hear you are wrong.
Idk what else to say.
"This has always been true, but I do get the feeling its worse now than ever before. Its basically a internet post-apocalypse full of roaming gangs of morons all trying to screw each other over."
Yeah maybe you are right, after all this has not changed at all, which was what we were talking about, right?
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On November 05 2024 19:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2024 19:19 Jockmcplop wrote:On November 05 2024 19:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 05 2024 18:58 Jockmcplop wrote:
How?
War with advertisers who provide Twitter's income, participating in and encouraging all the absolute worst aspects of Twitter (making it a pretty hostile and unwelcoming place), just general Musk behaviour.
Twitter's value has fallen 71% since Musk took over. Yeah this is what i was asking What does it to you, mean that "making it a pretty hostile and unwelcoming place"? I know about the value fall, that's not really my point. E: I mean like should Twitter be more censored (like before)? Should it be censored in a certain way? TBH I don't use it, never really have. I only have an account to keep up with football news. From what I hear the censorship now is as rife as it was before, but with a different focus (keeping lefty hate off there instead of right wing hate). People talk about it being worse than it used to be, but then those are people who i listen to, I suppose its just as 'good' for other groups of people. Honestly it has its uses for things like the football I mentioned, but when it comes to current events, its universally seen as a terrible place that indulges everyone's worst instincts. This has always been true, but I do get the feeling its worse now than ever before. Its basically a internet post-apocalypse full of roaming gangs of morons all trying to screw each other over. I also use it to read shit. Almost never post. From what you hear you are wrong. Idk what else to say. "This has always been true, but I do get the feeling its worse now than ever before. Its basically a internet post-apocalypse full of roaming gangs of morons all trying to screw each other over."Yeah maybe you are right, after all this has not changed at all, which was what we were talking about, right?
I'm not sure what we're talking about here, my main point was that Twitter is in a much worse place, business-wise than it was before.
Its a black mark on Musk's reputation, especially for greatest business savant genius that ever lived.
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EPT
