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Northern Ireland26605 Posts
On October 25 2024 21:10 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2024 21:01 Turbovolver wrote:On October 25 2024 20:56 ETisME wrote:
Reality is he is one of the few that reinvented a huge part of business world, in different areas and very successfully. It's not a random dart in the dark, and he pushed for the changes and micro managed a lot.
I get for people who don't really get all that will look like throwing money and get the best team would just create a dozens of tesla/space x that easily. Hmm, perhaps. He does have some big successes under his belt, and also some failures. I have heard for example that a lot of staff feel like they have to work around him, as opposed to with him, but that's not from some viable source I can point to, honestly what makes me inclined to believe it is weird, probably-irrelevant stuff like him being cringy on Twitter (that whole cave rescue thing?) Like steve jobs then? both are control freaks. if all you care is personality and good person, and care or rate little about his achievements, then obviously that's not someone you look up to.
Steve Jobs wasn’t buying social media platforms and interjecting himself into politics every 5 seconds
The problem with Musk is his fan base think he’s Nikola Tesla, when he is just another Steve Jobs. I’d argue a more fortunate and less competent Steve Jobs
Steve Jobs was a bit of a massive prick in his work life, it’s well documented. Folks would absolutely work around his various tempers. With Musk, if various tales are to be believed folks are working around him because he micromanages but doesn’t know what he’s doing sometimes
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On October 25 2024 20:26 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2024 20:16 Magic Powers wrote:On October 25 2024 15:43 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On October 24 2024 22:52 Magic Powers wrote:
Why is my little Austria suddenly in his focus now? Because a fascist party came into power, and Musk has made a name for himself supporting fascists such as Trump. Obviously he would support the fascist FPÖ as well and thus he believes every lie that favors our fascist party.
If the mainstream parties had actually done something about the massive amount of third world migration maybe they wouldn't have this problem, this backlash. People are just fed up of the lies and the false promises.Anyway seems the latest thing in Germany is a movement to ban AfD, which is clearly the wrong move.If AfD win a few seats they win a few seats.You have to accept the democratic will of the people in a democratic system otherwise you are the fascist. People would have these views with Musk or without him, you're really overthinking this. What lies and propaganda are you talking about?? Austria's migration policy is among the more conservative ones and we don't have an "immigrant problem". Explain yourself. You also acknowledge that Germany has the same problem with its strong move to the far-right AfD. And you're telling me I have to accept that people vote fascist or otherwise I'm a fascist? What even is this reasoning? Do you even read your own comments before you post them? Unlike Nazi which pretty much reshaped media and pretty drastic violence to actually get rid of opposition. AFAIK AfD is a legally voted in parties without resorting to those method.
so was the nsdap. then they did what you talk about.
It is actually more harmful to ban AfD since that's pretty much a much bigger direct hit to the democratic system, which set up a pretty horrible precedent.
why? should party bannings categorically be impossible? i find that to be a ridiculous stance. you want to be able to, especially when it comes to parties that would erode democratic structures.
In particular the entire reason on the AfD popularity rise is caused by the government refusal to accept and act on the issue.
the entire reason? you don't seem to know what you're talking about. we didn't have an immigration problem, until the afd started talking about it. it's such a nice strawman to present to the people for why they struggle economically. and when some democratic parties start adapting the talking points because they believe that that would make afd voters vote for them instead, its suddenly an issue that needs to be adressed. of course, that did not happen, instead the voters felt validated and more people voted for the afd. meanwhile, we have now normalized immigration as being the big threat to western values.
people are just easy to impress. looking at the farmers, who for the most part would gladly rally alongside the afd when they protested against subsidy cuts, even when the afd party program states that they categorically reject those subsidies.
so no, "the government's refusal to accept and act on [immigration]" is not the reason the afd is on the rise. it's a complicated amalgam of reasons, some of which are economic disparity, generational conflict, and the apolitical nature of the 90's. like most things in real life, it has neither a simple reason nor a simple solution, and whoever claims otherwise is either a bad actor or clueless (going back the topic of the thread..) and in neither case should be taken at face value
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On October 25 2024 20:52 Elroi wrote:
Why do you think abortion is a central part of democracy?
As I said, wrong thread, so I'll keep it very brief. The overwhelmingly majority of women and even most men in the US want full abortion rights. It is anti-democratic to deny them that.
I won't respond to this matter in this thread anymore unless it's connected to Elon Musk in some way.
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On October 25 2024 21:21 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2024 21:10 ETisME wrote:On October 25 2024 21:01 Turbovolver wrote:On October 25 2024 20:56 ETisME wrote:
Reality is he is one of the few that reinvented a huge part of business world, in different areas and very successfully. It's not a random dart in the dark, and he pushed for the changes and micro managed a lot.
I get for people who don't really get all that will look like throwing money and get the best team would just create a dozens of tesla/space x that easily. Hmm, perhaps. He does have some big successes under his belt, and also some failures. I have heard for example that a lot of staff feel like they have to work around him, as opposed to with him, but that's not from some viable source I can point to, honestly what makes me inclined to believe it is weird, probably-irrelevant stuff like him being cringy on Twitter (that whole cave rescue thing?) Like steve jobs then? both are control freaks. if all you care is personality and good person, and care or rate little about his achievements, then obviously that's not someone you look up to. Steve Jobs wasn’t buying social media platforms and interjecting himself into politics every 5 seconds The problem with Musk is his fan base think he’s Nikola Tesla, when he is just another Steve Jobs. I’d argue a more fortunate and less competent Steve Jobs Steve Jobs was a bit of a massive prick in his work life, it’s well documented. Folks would absolutely work around his various tempers. With Musk, if various tales are to be believed folks are working around him because he micromanages but doesn’t know what he’s doing sometimes
Nicolas tesla was a very unsuccessful business man, definitely more steven jobs. but it's hard to get a steven jobs (and steven jobs revolutionised product, but not production)
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At the risk of being a little annoying I can only reiterate, this thread can never go anywhere because it is important for some people's worldview that Elon Musk is not a fraud. The current order of social hierarchy tells us that the people who succeed the most at capitalism deserve to live a better life than us because they're good at what they do, generally the best examples of what a human should strive to be. If you support that hierarchy for social order, you can never recognize that someone on top might not be deserving, or, in Elon's case, might actually be worse, in terms of both intellect and morals, than the average person I'm likely to see when I go out in the street in a minute after I've finished writing this post.
You're not going to get people to admit to something that contradicts their entire worldview without them also changing their worldview, and Elon is not important enough for people to do that around him.
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On October 25 2024 21:22 GoloSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2024 20:26 ETisME wrote:On October 25 2024 20:16 Magic Powers wrote:On October 25 2024 15:43 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On October 24 2024 22:52 Magic Powers wrote:
Why is my little Austria suddenly in his focus now? Because a fascist party came into power, and Musk has made a name for himself supporting fascists such as Trump. Obviously he would support the fascist FPÖ as well and thus he believes every lie that favors our fascist party.
If the mainstream parties had actually done something about the massive amount of third world migration maybe they wouldn't have this problem, this backlash. People are just fed up of the lies and the false promises.Anyway seems the latest thing in Germany is a movement to ban AfD, which is clearly the wrong move.If AfD win a few seats they win a few seats.You have to accept the democratic will of the people in a democratic system otherwise you are the fascist. People would have these views with Musk or without him, you're really overthinking this. What lies and propaganda are you talking about?? Austria's migration policy is among the more conservative ones and we don't have an "immigrant problem". Explain yourself. You also acknowledge that Germany has the same problem with its strong move to the far-right AfD. And you're telling me I have to accept that people vote fascist or otherwise I'm a fascist? What even is this reasoning? Do you even read your own comments before you post them? Unlike Nazi which pretty much reshaped media and pretty drastic violence to actually get rid of opposition. AFAIK AfD is a legally voted in parties without resorting to those method. so was the nsdap. then they did what you talk about. Show nested quote +
It is actually more harmful to ban AfD since that's pretty much a much bigger direct hit to the democratic system, which set up a pretty horrible precedent.
why? should party bannings categorically be impossible? i find that to be a ridiculous stance. you want to be able to, especially when it comes to parties that would erode democratic structures. Show nested quote +
In particular the entire reason on the AfD popularity rise is caused by the government refusal to accept and act on the issue.
the entire reason? you don't seem to know what you're talking about. we didn't have an immigration problem, until the afd started talking about it. it's such a nice strawman to present to the people for why they struggle economically. and when some democratic parties start adapting the talking points because they believe that that would make afd voters vote for them instead, its suddenly an issue that needs to be adressed. of course, that did not happen, instead the voters felt validated and more people voted for the afd. meanwhile, we have now normalized immigration as being the big threat to western values. people are just easy to impress. looking at the farmers, who for the most part would gladly rally alongside the afd when they protested against subsidy cuts, even when the afd party program states that they categorically reject those subsidies. so no, "the government's refusal to accept and act on [immigration]" is not the reason the afd is on the rise. it's a complicated amalgam of reasons, some of which are economic disparity, generational conflict, and the apolitical nature of the 90's. like most things in real life, it has neither a simple reason nor a simple solution, and whoever claims otherwise is either a bad actor or clueless (going back the topic of the thread..) and in neither case should be taken at face value
so was the nsdap. then they did what you talk about.
> You want to ban parties before they do what is questionable?
pretty sure germany government tried a few moves just to tackle immigration. so either they are just doing things you considered not an issue or it's an issue
> I would only accept banning political parties if there is impending national crisis, such as zelenskiy banning pro-russian political parties during war.
people are just easy to impress. looking at the farmers, who for the most part would gladly rally alongside the afd when they protested against subsidy cuts, even when the afd party program states that they categorically reject those subsidies.
> I mean that's what democracy is all about.
it has neither a simple reason nor a simple solution, and whoever claims otherwise is either a bad actor or clueless
> Sure, but anti immigration has the largest topic of issues all over the world for a good reason. Be it US, Italy, Australia, Canada. This isn't new either. Just because the issue is complex doesn't mean we can't assign part of it to one particular reason, or that it shouldn't be taking any action.
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On October 25 2024 22:17 Nebuchad wrote:
At the risk of being a little annoying I can only reiterate, this thread can never go anywhere because it is important for some people's worldview that Elon Musk is not a fraud. The current order of social hierarchy tells us that the people who succeed the most at capitalism deserve to live a better life than us because they're good at what they do, generally the best examples of what a human should strive to be. If you support that hierarchy for social order, you can never recognize that someone on top might not be deserving, or, in Elon's case, might actually be worse, in terms of both intellect and morals, than the average person I'm likely to see when I go out in the street in a minute after I've finished writing this post.
You're not going to get people to admit to something that contradicts their entire worldview without them also changing their worldview, and Elon is not important enough for people to do that around him.
Yeah, I agree. That's fine though, I'm not trying to change the minds of Elon's supporters. Just expressing that he's a fraud and providing evidence for it will be doing some damage to his reputation. It's more about the people who aren't yet so familiar with his record.
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On October 25 2024 22:17 Nebuchad wrote:
At the risk of being a little annoying I can only reiterate, this thread can never go anywhere because it is important for some people's worldview that Elon Musk is not a fraud. The current order of social hierarchy tells us that the people who succeed the most at capitalism deserve to live a better life than us because they're good at what they do, generally the best examples of what a human should strive to be. If you support that hierarchy for social order, you can never recognize that someone on top might not be deserving, or, in Elon's case, might actually be worse, in terms of both intellect and morals, than the average person I'm likely to see when I go out in the street in a minute after I've finished writing this post.
You're not going to get people to admit to something that contradicts their entire worldview without them also changing their worldview, and Elon is not important enough for people to do that around him.
I mean yes?
Jobs creation, redistribution of wealth through stocks, technological tickle down, all done through successful profitable business, in what world should this not be valuated higher than your subjective scoring of moral and intellect superior average person?
In some cases a strong company like TSM literally protects Taiwan from Chinese invasion. How are you going score that in your morality score?
How many years of EV advancement has Tesla pushed ahead globally, developing all the way from raw material? What's that morality score?
What about achieving extreme cost savings on space program and putting the US back on top of space tech?
If you say "respect" then sure. But otherwise good luck finding a society that don't reward based on measurable returns, when the nation itself runs on a balance sheet, and money is stablised via strong economy/nation.
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On October 25 2024 22:36 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2024 22:17 Nebuchad wrote:
At the risk of being a little annoying I can only reiterate, this thread can never go anywhere because it is important for some people's worldview that Elon Musk is not a fraud. The current order of social hierarchy tells us that the people who succeed the most at capitalism deserve to live a better life than us because they're good at what they do, generally the best examples of what a human should strive to be. If you support that hierarchy for social order, you can never recognize that someone on top might not be deserving, or, in Elon's case, might actually be worse, in terms of both intellect and morals, than the average person I'm likely to see when I go out in the street in a minute after I've finished writing this post.
You're not going to get people to admit to something that contradicts their entire worldview without them also changing their worldview, and Elon is not important enough for people to do that around him. I mean yes? Jobs creation, redistribution of wealth through stocks, technological tickle down, all done through successful profitable business, in what world should this not be valuated higher than your subjective scoring of moral and intellect superior average person?
You didn't characterize my post very well there, I never said that having good morals or being intellectually superior should be valued higher. I said that the current system acknowledges that people in Musk's class live better lives than the average person, but posits that they deserve it, due to being better than the rest of us. A character like Musk, who is not only not better than the rest of us in just about every metric that people care about, but actively worse, contradicts that. But all you have to do to counter that issue is not acknowledge that he is worse than the rest of us, and of course, that's what people are going to do.
That's for what I said, but also there are many worlds where having good morals and being intelligent are valued higher than being a capitalist, lol. Any humanist worldview will put that above, we want what's best for humans as a collective, not for a specific individual.
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On October 25 2024 20:15 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2024 20:04 Turbovolver wrote:On October 25 2024 19:48 BlackJack wrote:
Nvidia has a P/E ratio of 65. Another fraud!! Jensen Huang’s cult of personality. Can’t wait for it to go belly up with Tesla just like Theranos which was not a publicly traded company and not subject to the same reporting/auditing standards. This isn't even a response, you just picked one sentence of my post and pointed out a different company with a high P/E that we both know is for completely different reasons. But hey, instead of trying to pwn me with a zinger, why not just make a constructive post sharing what you like about him that makes you wanna sweat for him this hard? Is it just the money and business acumen? Someone in the other thread suggested his ditching fibreglass to go to steel was a genius move, I guess that's something? I dislike when people try to argue about his companies and his professional competency when it’s obvious they would not be making these arguments if he hadn’t come out as a right winger. If he was a left winger that said all the right things about social justice issues then all the people trashing him would be kissing his ass for saving the planet with his electric vehicles and exploring the solar system. Although to be fair the same is true for right-wingers that hated him when he was the electric car guy and now love him after he went full MAGA.
I thought he was a hack long before he went far right.
Thing with Musk is that he is above all a salesman. Tesla went big because of his aura as a techno guru with a pop futuristic flavour. But it’s a bubble. You remove the cool, and there is very little left. It’s a relatively small automobile company with very questionable products and a ludicrously inflated value.
As someone who never thought he was remotely cool and think that his techno babble is just dystopian nonsense, I can see where the idea he is a snake oil merchant at best comes from.
What’s new is that Musk image was the driving force behind his businesses. I think he might have managed to turn that around and become their number one liability. When i hear people talking about Tesla, the question of whether you want to buy anything from a brand associated with such a man comes up increasingly often. Granted, I live in Norway, a country that is addicted to his cars and where people generally despise the ideas he champions with a passion.
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On October 26 2024 01:11 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2024 20:15 BlackJack wrote:On October 25 2024 20:04 Turbovolver wrote:On October 25 2024 19:48 BlackJack wrote:
Nvidia has a P/E ratio of 65. Another fraud!! Jensen Huang’s cult of personality. Can’t wait for it to go belly up with Tesla just like Theranos which was not a publicly traded company and not subject to the same reporting/auditing standards. This isn't even a response, you just picked one sentence of my post and pointed out a different company with a high P/E that we both know is for completely different reasons. But hey, instead of trying to pwn me with a zinger, why not just make a constructive post sharing what you like about him that makes you wanna sweat for him this hard? Is it just the money and business acumen? Someone in the other thread suggested his ditching fibreglass to go to steel was a genius move, I guess that's something? I dislike when people try to argue about his companies and his professional competency when it’s obvious they would not be making these arguments if he hadn’t come out as a right winger. If he was a left winger that said all the right things about social justice issues then all the people trashing him would be kissing his ass for saving the planet with his electric vehicles and exploring the solar system. Although to be fair the same is true for right-wingers that hated him when he was the electric car guy and now love him after he went full MAGA. I thought he was a hack long before he went far right. Thing with Musk is that he is above all a salesman. Tesla went big because of his aura as a techno guru with a pop futuristic flavour. But it’s a bubble. You remove the cool, and there is very little left. It’s a relatively small automobile company with very questionable products and a ludicrously inflated value. As someone who never thought he was remotely cool and think that his techno babble is just dystopian nonsense, I can see where the idea he is a snake oil merchant at best comes from. What’s new is that Musk image was the driving force behind his businesses. I think he might have managed to turn that around and become their number one liability. When i hear people talking about Tesla, the question of whether you want to buy anything from a brand associated with such a man comes up increasingly often. Granted, I live in Norway, a country that is addicted to his cars and where people generally despise the ideas he champions with a passion.
Elon Musk's face is front and center mainly because he wants it to be. Tesla was not originally his company, he was an investor. Later he complained to the founders when they rightfully didn't mention his name. He punished them by pushing them out and paying them off. His ownership of Tesla is entirely unrelated to Tesla's success. And the cars are a total safety failure.
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On October 26 2024 01:11 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2024 20:15 BlackJack wrote:On October 25 2024 20:04 Turbovolver wrote:On October 25 2024 19:48 BlackJack wrote:
Nvidia has a P/E ratio of 65. Another fraud!! Jensen Huang’s cult of personality. Can’t wait for it to go belly up with Tesla just like Theranos which was not a publicly traded company and not subject to the same reporting/auditing standards. This isn't even a response, you just picked one sentence of my post and pointed out a different company with a high P/E that we both know is for completely different reasons. But hey, instead of trying to pwn me with a zinger, why not just make a constructive post sharing what you like about him that makes you wanna sweat for him this hard? Is it just the money and business acumen? Someone in the other thread suggested his ditching fibreglass to go to steel was a genius move, I guess that's something? I dislike when people try to argue about his companies and his professional competency when it’s obvious they would not be making these arguments if he hadn’t come out as a right winger. If he was a left winger that said all the right things about social justice issues then all the people trashing him would be kissing his ass for saving the planet with his electric vehicles and exploring the solar system. Although to be fair the same is true for right-wingers that hated him when he was the electric car guy and now love him after he went full MAGA. I thought he was a hack long before he went far right. Thing with Musk is that he is above all a salesman. Tesla went big because of his aura as a techno guru with a pop futuristic flavour. But it’s a bubble. You remove the cool, and there is very little left. It’s a relatively small automobile company with very questionable products and a ludicrously inflated value. As someone who never thought he was remotely cool and think that his techno babble is just dystopian nonsense, I can see where the idea he is a snake oil merchant at best comes from. What’s new is that Musk image was the driving force behind his businesses. I think he might have managed to turn that around and become their number one liability. When i hear people talking about Tesla, the question of whether you want to buy anything from a brand associated with such a man comes up increasingly often. Granted, I live in Norway, a country that is addicted to his cars and where people generally despise the ideas he champions with a passion.
Fastest production car to ever do the 1/4 mile drag race
First production car to ever do 0-60 in < 2 seconds
Built a pickup truck that can beat a Porsche 911 in an 1/8th mile drag race while towing another Porsche 911
Consistently best in class in safety ratings
Significantly ahead of the competition in full-self-driving
But hey the Cybertruck's window cracked when they threw a metal ball at it therefore we can conclude it's all smoke and mirrors and the products are "questionable."
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@TurboLover, what kind of argument are you looking for me to give to you? SpaceX just caught the starship booster out of mid-air with mechanical chopstick arms. If you want to overlook that and consider it fraudulent because he hasn't delivered on Mars colonies yet then that's your right. If you want to overlook all the things Tesla has achieved and overlook it because the Robotaxis aren't here yet then that's your right. You're obviously not going to be swayed by anything I have to say.
@Nebuchad, okay sure the only reason that an investor would prefer Elon Musk as a CEO for their company over yourself is because they are deluded by a perverse worldview. We all know you have a higher intellect than Elon Musk and would have led Tesla and SpaceX to do greater things than Musk did.
@Wombat I think you said it all with "Steve Jobs wasn’t buying social media platforms and interjecting himself into politics every 5 seconds." Yeah, that's what this is really about.
@Magic Powers We had abortion rights in the US because a 9 person panel decided in 1973 that we shall have abortion rights. It's funny that you think reversing that decision is undemocratic but creating it wasn't. Neither were done by the vote of the people. Returning the issue of abortion to state voters and democratically elected legislatures is arguably the more "democratic" option than it being decreed by a court. I'm saying that as someone that vehemently disagrees with the decision to overturn Roe v Wade. I'm just applying an objective opinion.
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When I did my residency one of the best things when things were particularly tough was to sit down and watch the latest crazy thing that SpaceX had cooked up. I watched most launches and almost every landing attempt. I still do for starship because Falcon has lost it's magic. Can you understand how fucking amazing it is that landing a rocket booster has become mundane?
They are 2 generations ahead of everyone else already and working on the 3rd.
And there is no way to take that away from Elon. He started that company, he worked hard in every way, he selected the people. Sure Gwynne is for sure one of (perhaps nr 1) the greatest CEOs in history. And if you watch Elon talk he is incredibly thankful for that, and he's proud and happy about everyone in SpaceX.
I also remember back when Tesla started making the news he said his goal was to advance the adaptation of electric cars by at least 10 years. The only reason people shit on Tesla these days is because their success prompted every other car maker to go into overdrive with electric, to such an extent that there is a *huge* overproduction today. I would say he fucking knocked it out of the park with Tesla as well.
I also don't care about his views. He has the right to think and say whatever he wants.
But I have a problem with his war on non-american cultures. I don't care which ideas he is pushing but he has no concern for what anyone else thinks. He wants the american version of free speech to apply to everyone. He wants american labour laws to apply to everyone. He doesn't only say it he actually, aggressively pushes for it with all of his companies.
It's obnoxious and I would much rather see Tesla and X just *leave* the markets they are culturally incompatible with.
But this is not really a Musk problem, it's more of a US corporations problem. It's gotten much, much worse in the last decade and it seems to be accelerating. Elon is just out there not trying to hide it.
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On October 26 2024 03:35 BlackJack wrote:
@Nebuchad, okay sure the only reason that an investor would prefer Elon Musk as a CEO for their company over yourself is because they are deluded by a perverse worldview. We all know you have a higher intellect than Elon Musk and would have led Tesla and SpaceX to do greater things than Musk did.
But you see, there's no connexion between what I've said and this answer, so it's a bit weird as part of an interaction between the two of us.
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On October 26 2024 03:12 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2024 01:11 Biff The Understudy wrote:On October 25 2024 20:15 BlackJack wrote:On October 25 2024 20:04 Turbovolver wrote:On October 25 2024 19:48 BlackJack wrote:
Nvidia has a P/E ratio of 65. Another fraud!! Jensen Huang’s cult of personality. Can’t wait for it to go belly up with Tesla just like Theranos which was not a publicly traded company and not subject to the same reporting/auditing standards. This isn't even a response, you just picked one sentence of my post and pointed out a different company with a high P/E that we both know is for completely different reasons. But hey, instead of trying to pwn me with a zinger, why not just make a constructive post sharing what you like about him that makes you wanna sweat for him this hard? Is it just the money and business acumen? Someone in the other thread suggested his ditching fibreglass to go to steel was a genius move, I guess that's something? I dislike when people try to argue about his companies and his professional competency when it’s obvious they would not be making these arguments if he hadn’t come out as a right winger. If he was a left winger that said all the right things about social justice issues then all the people trashing him would be kissing his ass for saving the planet with his electric vehicles and exploring the solar system. Although to be fair the same is true for right-wingers that hated him when he was the electric car guy and now love him after he went full MAGA. I thought he was a hack long before he went far right. Thing with Musk is that he is above all a salesman. Tesla went big because of his aura as a techno guru with a pop futuristic flavour. But it’s a bubble. You remove the cool, and there is very little left. It’s a relatively small automobile company with very questionable products and a ludicrously inflated value. As someone who never thought he was remotely cool and think that his techno babble is just dystopian nonsense, I can see where the idea he is a snake oil merchant at best comes from. What’s new is that Musk image was the driving force behind his businesses. I think he might have managed to turn that around and become their number one liability. When i hear people talking about Tesla, the question of whether you want to buy anything from a brand associated with such a man comes up increasingly often. Granted, I live in Norway, a country that is addicted to his cars and where people generally despise the ideas he champions with a passion. Fastest production car to ever do the 1/4 mile drag race First production car to ever do 0-60 in < 2 seconds Built a pickup truck that can beat a Porsche 911 in an 1/8th mile drag race while towing another Porsche 911 Consistently best in class in safety ratings Significantly ahead of the competition in full-self-driving But hey the Cybertruck's window cracked when they threw a metal ball at it therefore we can conclude it's all smoke and mirrors and the products are "questionable."
Have you been in a Tesla? The interior is ugly, it’s not particularly well built. There are panels that don’t even fit neatly. The after sale service is inexistant. The design is just one big ipad in a plasticky environment. And they are extremely expensive.
Pole Stars for example are so, so, so much better.
Ok, it had a killer engine. When do you need to go to 100kph in 2 seconds, though, i am not quite sure.
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On October 25 2024 21:22 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2024 20:52 Elroi wrote:
Why do you think abortion is a central part of democracy? As I said, wrong thread, so I'll keep it very brief. The overwhelmingly majority of women and even most men in the US want full abortion rights. It is anti-democratic to deny them that. I won't respond to this matter in this thread anymore unless it's connected to Elon Musk in some way.
That's not how democracy works. The elected politicians make the laws – and appoint Supreme Court judges (in the case of the US). For example, the Swedish public hasn't been in favor of more immigration a single time over the last 30 years. I guess we've been governed by fascists.
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On October 26 2024 05:51 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2024 03:12 BlackJack wrote:On October 26 2024 01:11 Biff The Understudy wrote:On October 25 2024 20:15 BlackJack wrote:On October 25 2024 20:04 Turbovolver wrote:On October 25 2024 19:48 BlackJack wrote:
Nvidia has a P/E ratio of 65. Another fraud!! Jensen Huang’s cult of personality. Can’t wait for it to go belly up with Tesla just like Theranos which was not a publicly traded company and not subject to the same reporting/auditing standards. This isn't even a response, you just picked one sentence of my post and pointed out a different company with a high P/E that we both know is for completely different reasons. But hey, instead of trying to pwn me with a zinger, why not just make a constructive post sharing what you like about him that makes you wanna sweat for him this hard? Is it just the money and business acumen? Someone in the other thread suggested his ditching fibreglass to go to steel was a genius move, I guess that's something? I dislike when people try to argue about his companies and his professional competency when it’s obvious they would not be making these arguments if he hadn’t come out as a right winger. If he was a left winger that said all the right things about social justice issues then all the people trashing him would be kissing his ass for saving the planet with his electric vehicles and exploring the solar system. Although to be fair the same is true for right-wingers that hated him when he was the electric car guy and now love him after he went full MAGA. I thought he was a hack long before he went far right. Thing with Musk is that he is above all a salesman. Tesla went big because of his aura as a techno guru with a pop futuristic flavour. But it’s a bubble. You remove the cool, and there is very little left. It’s a relatively small automobile company with very questionable products and a ludicrously inflated value. As someone who never thought he was remotely cool and think that his techno babble is just dystopian nonsense, I can see where the idea he is a snake oil merchant at best comes from. What’s new is that Musk image was the driving force behind his businesses. I think he might have managed to turn that around and become their number one liability. When i hear people talking about Tesla, the question of whether you want to buy anything from a brand associated with such a man comes up increasingly often. Granted, I live in Norway, a country that is addicted to his cars and where people generally despise the ideas he champions with a passion. Fastest production car to ever do the 1/4 mile drag race First production car to ever do 0-60 in < 2 seconds Built a pickup truck that can beat a Porsche 911 in an 1/8th mile drag race while towing another Porsche 911 Consistently best in class in safety ratings Significantly ahead of the competition in full-self-driving But hey the Cybertruck's window cracked when they threw a metal ball at it therefore we can conclude it's all smoke and mirrors and the products are "questionable." Have you been in a Tesla? The interior is ugly, it’s not particularly well built. There are panels that don’t even fit neatly. The after sale service is inexistant. The design is just one big ipad in a plasticky environment. And they are extremely expensive. Pole Stars for example are so, so, so much better. Ok, it had a killer engine. When do you need to go to 100kph in 2 seconds, though, i am not quite sure.
Teslas are extremely expensive? And Polestars are what? Cheap?
Here's an article comparing Tesla Model 3 to Polestar 2. Tesla has better acceleration, reliability, handling, driving range, charging time, interior features, and it costs $10,000 less. Polestar has better cargo space and interior quality. Sure some of this is subjective but things like acceleration, charging time, driving range, price are quantifiable and Tesla is better in every area.
I mean it's fine if you prefer a Polestar over a Tesla. Everyone is entitled to their preferences. But your thesis is that the Tesla is a "questionable product" and the only reason someone would choose it over a Polestar is Elon's cult of personality and not... you know... the better price, acceleration, charging time, driving range, etc.
To answer your question, I've never driven a Polestar but I have driven a Tesla and yes they are pretty awesome.
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What do we reckon Elon does for Tesla by the way, aren't we in agreement that the "product architect" thing is bullshit? He's just providing money and publicity isn't he? If someone else was providing the money the Tesla would function exactly the same wouldn't it?
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EPT
