|
Northern Ireland24947 Posts
On November 10 2024 05:16 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2024 04:01 WombaT wrote:
Who cares? It wasn’t the point.
‘Why has Elon Musk founded an AI company if he previously advocated for a moratorium on that research?’
That is the point. Whatever HE thinks it is, he’s changed his tune. It could be complete bollocks, it could be a completely reasonable pivot.
People may have answers, direct quotes, plausible theories or whatever.
It someone described themselves as a giant socialist and then later said socialism was actually shit, and I pondered why, I wouldn’t lead with ‘but what is socialism?’
As a professional AI researcher who still has ties to the academic world, I can weigh in a bit here. That whole petition was rather polemic. Some people I know and trust signed it, while still stipulating that without a clearer definition it was pointless, but they agreed with the sentiment that the ethics and legal frameworks need to catch up to the technology. Others, whose arguments on *this* I found far more convincing didn't sign it for 2 main reasons: 1) a lot of key signatories seemed insincere, of which Musk was definitely one. OpenAI caught a lot of people with their pants down, and crying wolf and calling for a moratorium, would give them time to catch up, even if they'd be prohibited from surpassing it. 2) the petition hyped up the existential threat of AI, while sweeping the day-to-day ethical problems of AI under the rug. And they're doing that because focusing on existential threat hypes the technology and focuses on a threat that's far away, rather than highlighting the very real limitations of the technology and the impact these might have on minorities and other problems they can cause. An existential threat also lines up nicely with their whole singularity cult thing. It's a lot sexier to worry about the end of the world than the fact that using "black" language will associate with drug abuse and criminality in your multi billion dollar costing neural network...
As a layperson yeah I’d basically agree 100% with that, especially with the more tangible, but less ‘sexy’ treats definitely eating up more of the attention.
|
On November 10 2024 05:04 oBlade wrote:
The only way to evaluate whether the cost of a railroad is unusual would be to compare it to other railroads.
Try that. Do a quick cost per km for us. Should be interesting.
You cannot hide behind the snail's pace as an excuse. I don't even know how making excuses for this benefits you but anyway. The fact that the transit authority is wasting 135 billion dollars over 30 years doesn't make it better. It should not take 30 years and 135 billion dollars to build a train between two cities that have airports.
You say oBlade, what 30 years, I said 16.
Well, this originated in 2008 and the initial line isn't going to be running until estimated 2030-33 (meaning 2033) so I give until 2038 at least until the actual SF and LA are linked.
Feel free to suggest valid comparisons. It's one of the biggest projects in America, and the environmental challenges seem almost unprecedented to me. The high cost doesn't come from nowhere.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/17/why-californias-high-speed-rail-is-taking-so-long-to-complete.html?msockid=138ad3ce46ef6b131147c00547366a6a
|
On November 10 2024 03:26 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2024 03:01 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On November 10 2024 01:32 WombaT wrote:On November 09 2024 15:37 BlackJack wrote:On November 09 2024 14:07 L_Master wrote:On November 09 2024 10:53 WombaT wrote:On November 09 2024 10:25 L_Master wrote:On November 09 2024 10:22 Magic Powers wrote:On November 09 2024 10:01 L_Master wrote:On November 09 2024 09:53 Magic Powers wrote:
[quote]
Yeah sure, if you wanna believe that. He's only up there because money attracts money. If I want to believe that? Do you think Musk isn't "winning" (by his own goals)? If you don't, that's a steelman I'd love to here. I've met lots of people who hold the position that Musk is varying degree of talentless, I've heard people make the argument that Musk isn't responsible for his own success, but I haven't heard anyone make the argument that Musk isn't succeeding. I didn't say Elon Musk isn't winning. Yeah, he's winning. Plenty of other historic frauds have also won. America has a convicted felon in power right now. Winning in and of itself doesn't impress me. It doesn’t impress me inherently, with ya there. I’m trying to understand why you think he is winning, without talent. It all luck, or is there some other vector I’m blind to? He has some talent, but it’s as an ideas guy and a hype man as much as anything else. Most of his wealth is built on some bloody talented folks doing their thing. Nothing wrong with that inherently, he didn’t do these thing himself. He’s the richest man in the world while his engineers in various companies are merely decently wealthy. I mean opinions are rather split, Mark Zuckerberg did legitimately make Facebook himself. Jeff Bezos’ Amazon empire expanded hugely due to expertise he didn’t personally have, but initially he did get that off the ground. I could get on board with the ideas guy and hype man. For me, I'd say he's pretty friggin talented at that, given the size of his following and the devotion of people that end up supporting him. There seems to be this nigh unshakeable faith in Elon, and I think that has a great deal to do with Tesla's valuation. He also seems to have a knack for being extremely well positioned to take advantaged of key opportunities. He is close to controlling interest/capability on space. He's working on control of the roads. He controls the free speech layer of the internet. He controls the future internet infrastructure platform. He's now deeply allied with the most powerful government and military in the world. AI is the only thing I don't think he has a major foothold in. Elon has his foot in AI as well with his xAI team Nvidia chief Jensen Huang has praised Elon Musk after his startup xAI built a supercomputer in 19 days, an effort that he said would take others years
Huang said, "As far as I know, there's only one person in the world who could do that; Elon is singular in his understanding of engineering and construction and large systems and marshaling resources; it's just unbelievable."
Huang also commented on the supercluster: "Just to put it in perspective, 100,000 GPUs—that's easily the fastest supercomputer on the planet as one cluster. What happened to Musk calling for a moratorium on pushing ahead full-scale with AI? Actually a position I agreed with, although from more a position of trying to figure out the ethics of it first versus his Skynet kinda rhetoric Does a compiler count as "AI" ? What about a code generator? How long is a piece of string? www.bbc.co.ukI’m not making any kind of pro or anti-AI argument, just observing Musk’s own prior stated position. People are also allowed to change their positions, but in this case I haven’t encountered him explaining any change in outlook.
As far as I know (can’t recall where I’ve heard this) his claimed reasons for Grok were a mix of “Nobody else is going to stop, so I might as well be first” and having a “non woke” AI.
|
On November 09 2024 23:47 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2024 14:07 L_Master wrote:On November 09 2024 10:53 WombaT wrote:On November 09 2024 10:25 L_Master wrote:On November 09 2024 10:22 Magic Powers wrote:On November 09 2024 10:01 L_Master wrote:On November 09 2024 09:53 Magic Powers wrote:On November 09 2024 09:45 L_Master wrote:On November 08 2024 21:48 Magic Powers wrote:
I'm biased against Elon Musk now, but I considered him a fraud years ago. It started with the hyperloop and the more I learned about him the more convinced I was that he was a talentless hack who rides the wave of his investments and puts his face on other people's accomplishments. The reason why I opened this thread is his politics, but me calling him a fraud has nothing to do with my political bias against him. Two things can be true at the same time, he's a fraud and he's a fascism supporter, and I opened this thread because of the latter, not the former. I wouldn't have bothered to expose him on tl.net if he hadn't attacked my country for not being facist enough. What do you mean by talentless? When I read that, my default is to envision that Musk is where he is by luck alone. I don't *think* people will argue that Musk keeps getting what he is after. To be a little more crass, that he keeps "winning". To me, guy seems to get everything he wants. Yeah sure, if you wanna believe that. He's only up there because money attracts money. If I want to believe that? Do you think Musk isn't "winning" (by his own goals)? If you don't, that's a steelman I'd love to here. I've met lots of people who hold the position that Musk is varying degree of talentless, I've heard people make the argument that Musk isn't responsible for his own success, but I haven't heard anyone make the argument that Musk isn't succeeding. I didn't say Elon Musk isn't winning. Yeah, he's winning. Plenty of other historic frauds have also won. America has a convicted felon in power right now. Winning in and of itself doesn't impress me. It doesn’t impress me inherently, with ya there. I’m trying to understand why you think he is winning, without talent. It all luck, or is there some other vector I’m blind to? He has some talent, but it’s as an ideas guy and a hype man as much as anything else. Most of his wealth is built on some bloody talented folks doing their thing. Nothing wrong with that inherently, he didn’t do these thing himself. He’s the richest man in the world while his engineers in various companies are merely decently wealthy. I mean opinions are rather split, Mark Zuckerberg did legitimately make Facebook himself. Jeff Bezos’ Amazon empire expanded hugely due to expertise he didn’t personally have, but initially he did get that off the ground. I could get on board with the ideas guy and hype man. For me, I'd say he's pretty friggin talented at that, given the size of his following and the devotion of people that end up supporting him. There seems to be this nigh unshakeable faith in Elon, and I think that has a great deal to do with Tesla's valuation. He also seems to have a knack for being extremely well positioned to take advantaged of key opportunities. He is close to controlling interest/capability on space. He's working on control of the roads. He controls the free speech layer of the internet. He controls the future internet infrastructure platform. He's now deeply allied with the most powerful government and military in the world. AI is the only thing I don't think he has a major foothold in. This would be a big worry for those who have concerns over his particular worldview. I think a very reasonable worry about any person having that much (potential) influence. There are also benefits or best-case scenarios. If you get starry-eyed sci-fi nerd Musk, wanting sci-fi shit done, having one person with a finger and pull in so many times can actually be advantageous. Or at the very least not damaging. If you get ‘I’m the smartest person in the room on every topic’ Musk, very problematic There’s also self-interested Musk to consider as well. The first, isn’t particularly troublesome to me, and indeed whatever his skillset is, may actually be a net beneficial arrangement. There’s a very good reason that even people very critical of Musk, or those who call him a fraud have a problem with Space X. It’s cool sci-fi shit, it’s quite aspirational stuff. Even people who think they’re massively overvalued, or Musk is a total fraud also don’t like, hate Tesla particularly. But there’s clearly a massive conflict of interest if Musk interjects on public transportation policy. See - Hyperloop Similarly Starlink, as tech fine. It’s given decent internet to poor areas of the world, or isolated people in even rich countries Don’t publicly make a virtue of providing it to Ukraine’s military and rug pull them. Now, you have an individual whose businesses absolutely benefited from state subsidies, or working with state agencies that helped him into his current position, potentially being earmarked for some ‘Government Efficiency Tsar’ kind of role in Trump’s admin. I’ll reserve judgement, there’s clearly a best case outcome where it’s ’let’s find the best way to do things, where government investment could pay off and we find the next Space X’ or what have you. There’s also clearly a worst case where Musk uses his influence to cut the rope that he climbed up and prevent potential competitors with his own companies even getting off the ground. The real commonality is one’s political prescriptions become much more of a big deal if you’re actively involved in direct political policy or advocacy. There will be a cohort who outright will hate an individual for their views outright, but I think most can demarcate somewhat. George Soros isn’t the right’s go-to boogeyman because of his political opinions, it’s in his political advocacy and funding of various political groups. Ironically enough a man who made his a big chunk of his initial fortune shorting against the British pound sterling and precipitating in part an economic crisis in the UK that had real impacts on people’s daily lives. Some Communist that!
Just commenting to say thanks for writing this. Thoughtful response, and I have had similar thoughts…even as a guy who loosely likes Musk I have some reservations about the level of power he seems close to attaining.
Part of why I think he has some skill. Maybe it’s all luck that he is positioned and gaining footholds in these things but I have skepticism over that
|
Northern Ireland24947 Posts
On November 10 2024 08:15 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2024 23:47 WombaT wrote:On November 09 2024 14:07 L_Master wrote:On November 09 2024 10:53 WombaT wrote:On November 09 2024 10:25 L_Master wrote:On November 09 2024 10:22 Magic Powers wrote:On November 09 2024 10:01 L_Master wrote:On November 09 2024 09:53 Magic Powers wrote:On November 09 2024 09:45 L_Master wrote:On November 08 2024 21:48 Magic Powers wrote:
I'm biased against Elon Musk now, but I considered him a fraud years ago. It started with the hyperloop and the more I learned about him the more convinced I was that he was a talentless hack who rides the wave of his investments and puts his face on other people's accomplishments. The reason why I opened this thread is his politics, but me calling him a fraud has nothing to do with my political bias against him. Two things can be true at the same time, he's a fraud and he's a fascism supporter, and I opened this thread because of the latter, not the former. I wouldn't have bothered to expose him on tl.net if he hadn't attacked my country for not being facist enough. What do you mean by talentless? When I read that, my default is to envision that Musk is where he is by luck alone. I don't *think* people will argue that Musk keeps getting what he is after. To be a little more crass, that he keeps "winning". To me, guy seems to get everything he wants. Yeah sure, if you wanna believe that. He's only up there because money attracts money. If I want to believe that? Do you think Musk isn't "winning" (by his own goals)? If you don't, that's a steelman I'd love to here. I've met lots of people who hold the position that Musk is varying degree of talentless, I've heard people make the argument that Musk isn't responsible for his own success, but I haven't heard anyone make the argument that Musk isn't succeeding. I didn't say Elon Musk isn't winning. Yeah, he's winning. Plenty of other historic frauds have also won. America has a convicted felon in power right now. Winning in and of itself doesn't impress me. It doesn’t impress me inherently, with ya there. I’m trying to understand why you think he is winning, without talent. It all luck, or is there some other vector I’m blind to? He has some talent, but it’s as an ideas guy and a hype man as much as anything else. Most of his wealth is built on some bloody talented folks doing their thing. Nothing wrong with that inherently, he didn’t do these thing himself. He’s the richest man in the world while his engineers in various companies are merely decently wealthy. I mean opinions are rather split, Mark Zuckerberg did legitimately make Facebook himself. Jeff Bezos’ Amazon empire expanded hugely due to expertise he didn’t personally have, but initially he did get that off the ground. I could get on board with the ideas guy and hype man. For me, I'd say he's pretty friggin talented at that, given the size of his following and the devotion of people that end up supporting him. There seems to be this nigh unshakeable faith in Elon, and I think that has a great deal to do with Tesla's valuation. He also seems to have a knack for being extremely well positioned to take advantaged of key opportunities. He is close to controlling interest/capability on space. He's working on control of the roads. He controls the free speech layer of the internet. He controls the future internet infrastructure platform. He's now deeply allied with the most powerful government and military in the world. AI is the only thing I don't think he has a major foothold in. This would be a big worry for those who have concerns over his particular worldview. I think a very reasonable worry about any person having that much (potential) influence. There are also benefits or best-case scenarios. If you get starry-eyed sci-fi nerd Musk, wanting sci-fi shit done, having one person with a finger and pull in so many times can actually be advantageous. Or at the very least not damaging. If you get ‘I’m the smartest person in the room on every topic’ Musk, very problematic There’s also self-interested Musk to consider as well. The first, isn’t particularly troublesome to me, and indeed whatever his skillset is, may actually be a net beneficial arrangement. There’s a very good reason that even people very critical of Musk, or those who call him a fraud have a problem with Space X. It’s cool sci-fi shit, it’s quite aspirational stuff. Even people who think they’re massively overvalued, or Musk is a total fraud also don’t like, hate Tesla particularly. But there’s clearly a massive conflict of interest if Musk interjects on public transportation policy. See - Hyperloop Similarly Starlink, as tech fine. It’s given decent internet to poor areas of the world, or isolated people in even rich countries Don’t publicly make a virtue of providing it to Ukraine’s military and rug pull them. Now, you have an individual whose businesses absolutely benefited from state subsidies, or working with state agencies that helped him into his current position, potentially being earmarked for some ‘Government Efficiency Tsar’ kind of role in Trump’s admin. I’ll reserve judgement, there’s clearly a best case outcome where it’s ’let’s find the best way to do things, where government investment could pay off and we find the next Space X’ or what have you. There’s also clearly a worst case where Musk uses his influence to cut the rope that he climbed up and prevent potential competitors with his own companies even getting off the ground. The real commonality is one’s political prescriptions become much more of a big deal if you’re actively involved in direct political policy or advocacy. There will be a cohort who outright will hate an individual for their views outright, but I think most can demarcate somewhat. George Soros isn’t the right’s go-to boogeyman because of his political opinions, it’s in his political advocacy and funding of various political groups. Ironically enough a man who made his a big chunk of his initial fortune shorting against the British pound sterling and precipitating in part an economic crisis in the UK that had real impacts on people’s daily lives. Some Communist that! Just commenting to say thanks for writing this. Thoughtful response, and I have had similar thoughts…even as a guy who loosely likes Musk I have some reservations about the level of power he seems close to attaining. Part of why I think he has some skill. Maybe it’s all luck that he is positioned and gaining footholds in these things but I have skepticism over that
My issue is that, much as people will say ‘oh give me x millions I could do what Musk has done with his companies’. I don’t personally believe that to be the case for me!
However, I don’t think he’s good on politics, or tangentially related philosophical or cultural questions at all. And I’m not talking disagreement, I mean I don’t think he has any kind of nuanced or considered viewpoint in various domains.
Few are masters of even one craft, much less several.
It’s less his conclusions, I get the impression he also doesn’t really consider the questions, in that specific domain. Whatever his intuition is, well that’s right surely, he’s Elon Musk right?
I’ve grappled with the free speech versus misinformation etc problem in media for about a decade now. I still don’t think I really have a practically workable solution. Some decent ideas perhaps depending how kind one is!
Musk is just like ‘yeah I’m a free speech absolutist’, which is a conclusion one can ultimately come up with but I never got the impression he wrestled with it you know?
Which is a big part of what I worry about a Musk with political influence looks like. But not a worry I have if he’s just doing cool space shit or whatever
|
While I agree that Elon Musk is a snake oil salesman first and foremost (member hyperloop?), X has an open source community notes feature where you can call him out on anything if you have the receipts. I think participating in the process is ultimately more beneficial than vomiting pages and pages of complaints in some strange fringe website bubbles.
It's in human nature to want to engage and participate in our surroundings and build towards something better. best regards.
|
Northern Ireland24947 Posts
On November 10 2024 09:26 HwangjaeTerran wrote:
While I agree that Elon Musk is a snake oil salesman first and foremost (member hyperloop?), X has an open source community notes feature where you can call him out on anything if you have the receipts. I think participating in the process is ultimately more beneficial than vomiting pages and pages of complaints in some strange fringe website bubbles.
It's in human nature to want to engage and participate in our surroundings and build towards something better. best regards.
I dunno I think just not using Twitter sends a certain message.
Something I actually did. As I’ve said before though I wasn’t a big Twitter user so it wasn’t particularly difficult. It’s not some boycott where I’m super struggling but continuing despite that
|
On November 10 2024 01:22 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2024 00:46 BlackJack wrote:On November 09 2024 23:18 Magic Powers wrote:
Imagine if all that time and money was instead being invested in proven technology such as high speed rail. The trains can reach incredible speeds and the technology is readily available. America could already have created some of the infrastructure that would reduce some car travel. No need, California is already working on high speed rail after a ballot measures approved it in 2008. It’s now 16 years later and the project is $100 billion over budget and not even close to being finished. Of course we all know that anyone can achieve what Musk has if they just had the necessary seed money and a little luck. We’ll just have to assume the people pissing away billions on high speed rail are just extraordinarily unlucky. But fortunately for them they are even better at raising capital than Mr Musk because I’ll go to jail if I don’t give them some of my money. California's rail is projected to be completed in 2030. God knows if they'll pull it off, but you're falling for propaganda as always. https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-has-california-spent-11-billion-high-speed-rail-stretch-1901106
Yikes, the irony here. You’re the one buying the propaganda if you think the rail will be done by 2030. What’s projected to be done by 2030 or 2033 is a small section in the middle from Bakersfield to Merced. A section of rail nobody would use because nobody would go to a train station to take a 1 hour train between these 2 mid-sized cities when they could just drive it in 2 hours and still have their car at the end of it. If the 2 cities were Miami to DisneyWorld then maybe it’s a good idea instead of 2 armpit cities nobody wants to go to anyway.
The actual rail project has no completion date because it doesn’t even have the $100 billion funding it’s now missing. They are soldiering forward because they don’t understand the sunk cost fallacy or because too many bureaucrats are making their living off this project. Either way, I’m more pissed about my tax dollars being pissed away than whatever Hyperloop is doing and you might be too if you paid taxes here and weren’t obsessed with hating Elon.
|
On November 10 2024 05:12 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2024 04:29 oBlade wrote:On November 10 2024 04:22 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 10 2024 04:21 oBlade wrote:On November 10 2024 04:18 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 10 2024 04:01 oBlade wrote:On November 10 2024 01:22 Magic Powers wrote:On November 10 2024 00:46 BlackJack wrote:On November 09 2024 23:18 Magic Powers wrote:
Imagine if all that time and money was instead being invested in proven technology such as high speed rail. The trains can reach incredible speeds and the technology is readily available. America could already have created some of the infrastructure that would reduce some car travel. No need, California is already working on high speed rail after a ballot measures approved it in 2008. It’s now 16 years later and the project is $100 billion over budget and not even close to being finished. Of course we all know that anyone can achieve what Musk has if they just had the necessary seed money and a little luck. We’ll just have to assume the people pissing away billions on high speed rail are just extraordinarily unlucky. But fortunately for them they are even better at raising capital than Mr Musk because I’ll go to jail if I don’t give them some of my money. Road infrastructure cost the US over $200 billion in just 2021 alone. In 2023 it was a similar number. That's the annual cost. Compare that to 16 years of a Californian rail project costing something around $135 billion. You can make any number look big if you don't compare it to the cost of everything else. None of these numbers tell us anything if you look at them just in the abstract. Also look into how much government funding SpaceX receives annually. The totality over all the years is likely in the tens of billions. Even Tesla has received billions of funding. California's rail is projected to be completed in 2030. God knows if they'll pull it off, but you're falling for propaganda as always. https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-has-california-spent-11-billion-high-speed-rail-stretch-1901106 That's not propaganda, he legitimately built multiple flying reusable orbital rockets before the government built a train. And as you keep insisting, trains are the established tech. One train costing over half the cost of all roads in the US yeah sounds like a huge number. Thanks for making it less abstract.The government is a CUSTOMER of SpaceX. That's where the "billions in funding" come from. The grocery store also gets hundreds in funding from me. In both cases the person paying is getting something in return. You still don't read good. Have anything to add? That was it! You're trying to regurgitate information dishonestly. You're not so dumb as to think one project being 16 years and one project being one year makes them the same. Do better. You got me buddy, I admit I'm completely wrong. California's high speed rail is actually too cheap. It should cost AT LEAST as much as the annual cost of every single road in the entire US put together. I'm just pointing to your dishonesty in a conversation where the person you're actually talking to shouldn't be distracted by your bad faith bullshit, that's all. If the person actually in the conversation has to call it out, it just distracts from the actual conversation you (apparently don't want to) have. Do better!
So to recap just so I understand:
1) You have no opinion on the actual subject to contribute.
2) Me repeating the costs the other guy said is dishonest.
3) You are honorably defending an upstanding guy who insisted Tesla made 4k vehicles a week against my bullshit dishonesty by derailing with nonsense insults so he doesn't have to.
Physician "call out" thyself.
On November 10 2024 05:29 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2024 05:04 oBlade wrote:
The only way to evaluate whether the cost of a railroad is unusual would be to compare it to other railroads.
Try that. Do a quick cost per km for us. Should be interesting.
You cannot hide behind the snail's pace as an excuse. I don't even know how making excuses for this benefits you but anyway. The fact that the transit authority is wasting 135 billion dollars over 30 years doesn't make it better. It should not take 30 years and 135 billion dollars to build a train between two cities that have airports.
You say oBlade, what 30 years, I said 16.
Well, this originated in 2008 and the initial line isn't going to be running until estimated 2030-33 (meaning 2033) so I give until 2038 at least until the actual SF and LA are linked. Feel free to suggest valid comparisons. It's one of the biggest projects in America, and the environmental challenges seem almost unprecedented to me. The high cost doesn't come from nowhere. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/17/why-californias-high-speed-rail-is-taking-so-long-to-complete.html?msockid=138ad3ce46ef6b131147c00547366a6a
In France HSR costs 10-20 million euros per kilometer. That's $17-$35 million per mile.
California is "projected" (i.e., minimum) $256 million per mile. Connecting two cities that have airports.
The "environmental challenges" you point to are imposed by the same government running the project. Everything in California has "environmental challenges" not because the environment is magically different there but because of the state government. Which is fine until they need federal funding.
The fact that Hyperloop is an unworkable failure doesn't automatically mean some alternative is gold. Hyperloop was a private venture. The market decided it failed. California HSR is a public venture. That means the market decided it failed, but the government decided to waste our money on it anyway. These are not comparable. They are both terrible. Got a better alternative to both: Airplanes.
|
On November 10 2024 13:23 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2024 01:22 Magic Powers wrote:On November 10 2024 00:46 BlackJack wrote:On November 09 2024 23:18 Magic Powers wrote:
Imagine if all that time and money was instead being invested in proven technology such as high speed rail. The trains can reach incredible speeds and the technology is readily available. America could already have created some of the infrastructure that would reduce some car travel. No need, California is already working on high speed rail after a ballot measures approved it in 2008. It’s now 16 years later and the project is $100 billion over budget and not even close to being finished. Of course we all know that anyone can achieve what Musk has if they just had the necessary seed money and a little luck. We’ll just have to assume the people pissing away billions on high speed rail are just extraordinarily unlucky. But fortunately for them they are even better at raising capital than Mr Musk because I’ll go to jail if I don’t give them some of my money. California's rail is projected to be completed in 2030. God knows if they'll pull it off, but you're falling for propaganda as always. https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-has-california-spent-11-billion-high-speed-rail-stretch-1901106 Yikes, the irony here. You’re the one buying the propaganda if you think the rail will be done by 2030. What’s projected to be done by 2030 or 2033 is a small section in the middle from Bakersfield to Merced. A section of rail nobody would use because nobody would go to a train station to take a 1 hour train between these 2 mid-sized cities when they could just drive it in 2 hours and still have their car at the end of it. If the 2 cities were Miami to DisneyWorld then maybe it’s a good idea instead of 2 armpit cities nobody wants to go to anyway. The actual rail project has no completion date because it doesn’t even have the $100 billion funding it’s now missing. They are soldiering forward because they don’t understand the sunk cost fallacy or because too many bureaucrats are making their living off this project. Either way, I’m more pissed about my tax dollars being pissed away than whatever Hyperloop is doing and you might be too if you paid taxes here and weren’t obsessed with hating Elon.
You've so successfully sidetracked from Elon Musk's failed hyperloop that you don't even realize that you're arguing with a strawman. I've showed how that massive project you hate is actually within reason. I'm not here to argue what I think about it, my personal opinion about it is irrelevant and I'm not here to defend it.
You've so quickly moved the goalpost from Elon Musk's failure that you think this discussion was all about California the whole time. It wasn't. It's a whataboutism of the highest order.
This thread isn't about other failures in the world, that can be discussed all you want. Make a thread for it if you like, maybe people will listen. It's about people's wrong perception of Elon Musk's brilliancy. He's running Twitter to the ground, his hyperloop has failed, and I can name a whole host of other failures in his career that people such as yourself are apologizing for.
|
He should have run a high speed rail into the ground instead. That would have been a far better use of his money, which you have no say in how he spends at all.
A whole host of failures. Sammy Sosa had 2,306 career strikeouts, by the way. What a terrible player, am I right? Pay no attention to the 600+ home runs or anything.
Step 1) Everything connected to Musk that doesn't succeed is his fault, which is for some reason a problem even though he's the one bearing all the risk.
Step 2) Everything connected to Musk that succeeds is other people's fault, and he's freeloading off the benefits and laurels and nobody else benefits.
|
On November 10 2024 22:42 oBlade wrote:
He should have run a high speed rail into the ground instead. That would have been a far better use of his money, which you have no say in how he spends at all.
A whole host of failures. Sammy Sosa had 2,306 career strikeouts, by the way. What a terrible player, am I right? Pay no attention to the 600+ home runs or anything.
Step 1) Everything connected to Musk that doesn't succeed is his fault, which is for some reason a problem even though he's the one bearing all the risk.
Step 2) Everything connected to Musk that succeeds is other people's fault, and he's freeloading off the benefits and laurels and nobody else benefits.
Yeah, believe whatever you want. Twitter succeeding before Musk and then after the purchase turning into a right-wing echo chamber, censorship hellhole, and financially crashing is definitely unrelated to Musk. Sure, dream on.
|
That’s not a response to his post at all. He called you out for simultaneously insisting that bad things that happen to Elons companies are his fault and not giving him credit for when they become very successful. It seems to me that you’re the one with the big burden of proof here because you are the one insisting that Elon is a con man.
|
On November 11 2024 00:39 Elroi wrote:
That’s not a response to his post at all. He called you out for simultaneously insisting that bad things that happen to Elons companies are his fault and not giving him credit for when they become very successful. It seems to me that you’re the one with the big burden of proof here because you are the one insisting that Elon is a con man.
Nope, you clearly haven't read all of my comments in this thread.
|
How is X able to pay creators when Twitter never did over 12 years, even during the quarters they were profitable?
|
On November 11 2024 01:13 oBlade wrote:
How is X able to pay creators when Twitter never did over 12 years, even during the quarters they were profitable?
What are you talking about? Have you never heard of ads before?
|
On November 11 2024 01:17 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2024 01:13 oBlade wrote:
How is X able to pay creators when Twitter never did over 12 years, even during the quarters they were profitable? What are you talking about? Have you never heard of ads before?
Elon Musk invented ads too? What a fucking legend.
|
On November 11 2024 01:20 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2024 01:17 Magic Powers wrote:On November 11 2024 01:13 oBlade wrote:
How is X able to pay creators when Twitter never did over 12 years, even during the quarters they were profitable? What are you talking about? Have you never heard of ads before? Elon Musk invented ads too? What a fucking legend.
I don't know what your argument even is. Are you saying Elon Musk invented people making money on Twitter?
|
Northern Ireland24947 Posts
On November 11 2024 00:39 Elroi wrote:
That’s not a response to his post at all. He called you out for simultaneously insisting that bad things that happen to Elons companies are his fault and not giving him credit for when they become very successful. It seems to me that you’re the one with the big burden of proof here because you are the one insisting that Elon is a con man.
The whole thread is just ignoring things that are inconvenient to one’s perceptions and responding to things that are more fertile ground, or sidestepping into unrelated domains.
Across the board also
I’m trying to straddle some kind of reasonable, nuanced middle ground and people just consistently sidestep either my posts entirely or certain elements within in order to either argue with their own strawman, or the more extreme arguments, or to just introduce completely different arguments
Hey people have the right, but it’s done nothing to particularly convince me that Musk fanboys or anti-fans are engaging in any kind of evolving, evidence-based discussion
|
On November 11 2024 01:28 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2024 01:20 oBlade wrote:On November 11 2024 01:17 Magic Powers wrote:On November 11 2024 01:13 oBlade wrote:
How is X able to pay creators when Twitter never did over 12 years, even during the quarters they were profitable? What are you talking about? Have you never heard of ads before? Elon Musk invented ads too? What a fucking legend. I don't know what your argument even is. Are you saying Elon Musk invented people making money on Twitter?
They implemented ad sharing in 2023.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
