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On November 09 2024 23:18 Magic Powers wrote:
Imagine if all that time and money was instead being invested in proven technology such as high speed rail. The trains can reach incredible speeds and the technology is readily available. America could already have created some of the infrastructure that would reduce some car travel.
No need, California is already working on high speed rail after a ballot measures approved it in 2008. It’s now 16 years later and the project is $100 billion over budget and not even close to being finished.
Of course we all know that anyone can achieve what Musk has if they just had the necessary seed money and a little luck. We’ll just have to assume the people pissing away billions on high speed rail are just extraordinarily unlucky. But fortunately for them they are even better at raising capital than Mr Musk because I’ll go to jail if I don’t give them some of my money.
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On November 10 2024 00:46 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2024 23:18 Magic Powers wrote:
Imagine if all that time and money was instead being invested in proven technology such as high speed rail. The trains can reach incredible speeds and the technology is readily available. America could already have created some of the infrastructure that would reduce some car travel. No need, California is already working on high speed rail after a ballot measures approved it in 2008. It’s now 16 years later and the project is $100 billion over budget and not even close to being finished. Of course we all know that anyone can achieve what Musk has if they just had the necessary seed money and a little luck. We’ll just have to assume the people pissing away billions on high speed rail are just extraordinarily unlucky. But fortunately for them they are even better at raising capital than Mr Musk because I’ll go to jail if I don’t give them some of my money.
Road infrastructure cost the US over $200 billion in just 2021 alone. In 2023 it was a similar number. That's the annual cost.
Compare that to 16 years of a Californian rail project costing something around $135 billion.
You can make any number look big if you don't compare it to the cost of everything else. None of these numbers tell us anything if you look at them just in the abstract.
Also look into how much government funding SpaceX receives annually. The totality over all the years is likely in the tens of billions. Even Tesla has received billions of funding.
California's rail is projected to be completed in 2030. God knows if they'll pull it off, but you're falling for propaganda as always.
https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-has-california-spent-11-billion-high-speed-rail-stretch-1901106
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Northern Ireland26269 Posts
On November 09 2024 15:37 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2024 14:07 L_Master wrote:On November 09 2024 10:53 WombaT wrote:On November 09 2024 10:25 L_Master wrote:On November 09 2024 10:22 Magic Powers wrote:On November 09 2024 10:01 L_Master wrote:On November 09 2024 09:53 Magic Powers wrote:On November 09 2024 09:45 L_Master wrote:On November 08 2024 21:48 Magic Powers wrote:
I'm biased against Elon Musk now, but I considered him a fraud years ago. It started with the hyperloop and the more I learned about him the more convinced I was that he was a talentless hack who rides the wave of his investments and puts his face on other people's accomplishments. The reason why I opened this thread is his politics, but me calling him a fraud has nothing to do with my political bias against him. Two things can be true at the same time, he's a fraud and he's a fascism supporter, and I opened this thread because of the latter, not the former. I wouldn't have bothered to expose him on tl.net if he hadn't attacked my country for not being facist enough. What do you mean by talentless? When I read that, my default is to envision that Musk is where he is by luck alone. I don't *think* people will argue that Musk keeps getting what he is after. To be a little more crass, that he keeps "winning". To me, guy seems to get everything he wants. Yeah sure, if you wanna believe that. He's only up there because money attracts money. If I want to believe that? Do you think Musk isn't "winning" (by his own goals)? If you don't, that's a steelman I'd love to here. I've met lots of people who hold the position that Musk is varying degree of talentless, I've heard people make the argument that Musk isn't responsible for his own success, but I haven't heard anyone make the argument that Musk isn't succeeding. I didn't say Elon Musk isn't winning. Yeah, he's winning. Plenty of other historic frauds have also won. America has a convicted felon in power right now. Winning in and of itself doesn't impress me. It doesn’t impress me inherently, with ya there. I’m trying to understand why you think he is winning, without talent. It all luck, or is there some other vector I’m blind to? He has some talent, but it’s as an ideas guy and a hype man as much as anything else. Most of his wealth is built on some bloody talented folks doing their thing. Nothing wrong with that inherently, he didn’t do these thing himself. He’s the richest man in the world while his engineers in various companies are merely decently wealthy. I mean opinions are rather split, Mark Zuckerberg did legitimately make Facebook himself. Jeff Bezos’ Amazon empire expanded hugely due to expertise he didn’t personally have, but initially he did get that off the ground. I could get on board with the ideas guy and hype man. For me, I'd say he's pretty friggin talented at that, given the size of his following and the devotion of people that end up supporting him. There seems to be this nigh unshakeable faith in Elon, and I think that has a great deal to do with Tesla's valuation. He also seems to have a knack for being extremely well positioned to take advantaged of key opportunities. He is close to controlling interest/capability on space. He's working on control of the roads. He controls the free speech layer of the internet. He controls the future internet infrastructure platform. He's now deeply allied with the most powerful government and military in the world. AI is the only thing I don't think he has a major foothold in. Elon has his foot in AI as well with his xAI team Show nested quote + Nvidia chief Jensen Huang has praised Elon Musk after his startup xAI built a supercomputer in 19 days, an effort that he said would take others years
Huang said, "As far as I know, there's only one person in the world who could do that; Elon is singular in his understanding of engineering and construction and large systems and marshaling resources; it's just unbelievable."
Huang also commented on the supercluster: "Just to put it in perspective, 100,000 GPUs—that's easily the fastest supercomputer on the planet as one cluster.
What happened to Musk calling for a moratorium on pushing ahead full-scale with AI?
Actually a position I agreed with, although from more a position of trying to figure out the ethics of it first versus his Skynet kinda rhetoric
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On November 10 2024 01:32 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2024 15:37 BlackJack wrote:On November 09 2024 14:07 L_Master wrote:On November 09 2024 10:53 WombaT wrote:On November 09 2024 10:25 L_Master wrote:On November 09 2024 10:22 Magic Powers wrote:On November 09 2024 10:01 L_Master wrote:On November 09 2024 09:53 Magic Powers wrote:On November 09 2024 09:45 L_Master wrote:On November 08 2024 21:48 Magic Powers wrote:
I'm biased against Elon Musk now, but I considered him a fraud years ago. It started with the hyperloop and the more I learned about him the more convinced I was that he was a talentless hack who rides the wave of his investments and puts his face on other people's accomplishments. The reason why I opened this thread is his politics, but me calling him a fraud has nothing to do with my political bias against him. Two things can be true at the same time, he's a fraud and he's a fascism supporter, and I opened this thread because of the latter, not the former. I wouldn't have bothered to expose him on tl.net if he hadn't attacked my country for not being facist enough. What do you mean by talentless? When I read that, my default is to envision that Musk is where he is by luck alone. I don't *think* people will argue that Musk keeps getting what he is after. To be a little more crass, that he keeps "winning". To me, guy seems to get everything he wants. Yeah sure, if you wanna believe that. He's only up there because money attracts money. If I want to believe that? Do you think Musk isn't "winning" (by his own goals)? If you don't, that's a steelman I'd love to here. I've met lots of people who hold the position that Musk is varying degree of talentless, I've heard people make the argument that Musk isn't responsible for his own success, but I haven't heard anyone make the argument that Musk isn't succeeding. I didn't say Elon Musk isn't winning. Yeah, he's winning. Plenty of other historic frauds have also won. America has a convicted felon in power right now. Winning in and of itself doesn't impress me. It doesn’t impress me inherently, with ya there. I’m trying to understand why you think he is winning, without talent. It all luck, or is there some other vector I’m blind to? He has some talent, but it’s as an ideas guy and a hype man as much as anything else. Most of his wealth is built on some bloody talented folks doing their thing. Nothing wrong with that inherently, he didn’t do these thing himself. He’s the richest man in the world while his engineers in various companies are merely decently wealthy. I mean opinions are rather split, Mark Zuckerberg did legitimately make Facebook himself. Jeff Bezos’ Amazon empire expanded hugely due to expertise he didn’t personally have, but initially he did get that off the ground. I could get on board with the ideas guy and hype man. For me, I'd say he's pretty friggin talented at that, given the size of his following and the devotion of people that end up supporting him. There seems to be this nigh unshakeable faith in Elon, and I think that has a great deal to do with Tesla's valuation. He also seems to have a knack for being extremely well positioned to take advantaged of key opportunities. He is close to controlling interest/capability on space. He's working on control of the roads. He controls the free speech layer of the internet. He controls the future internet infrastructure platform. He's now deeply allied with the most powerful government and military in the world. AI is the only thing I don't think he has a major foothold in. Elon has his foot in AI as well with his xAI team Nvidia chief Jensen Huang has praised Elon Musk after his startup xAI built a supercomputer in 19 days, an effort that he said would take others years
Huang said, "As far as I know, there's only one person in the world who could do that; Elon is singular in his understanding of engineering and construction and large systems and marshaling resources; it's just unbelievable."
Huang also commented on the supercluster: "Just to put it in perspective, 100,000 GPUs—that's easily the fastest supercomputer on the planet as one cluster. What happened to Musk calling for a moratorium on pushing ahead full-scale with AI? Actually a position I agreed with, although from more a position of trying to figure out the ethics of it first versus his Skynet kinda rhetoric
Does a compiler count as "AI" ? What about a code generator?
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Northern Ireland26269 Posts
On November 10 2024 03:01 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2024 01:32 WombaT wrote:On November 09 2024 15:37 BlackJack wrote:On November 09 2024 14:07 L_Master wrote:On November 09 2024 10:53 WombaT wrote:On November 09 2024 10:25 L_Master wrote:On November 09 2024 10:22 Magic Powers wrote:On November 09 2024 10:01 L_Master wrote:On November 09 2024 09:53 Magic Powers wrote:On November 09 2024 09:45 L_Master wrote:
[quote]
What do you mean by talentless?
When I read that, my default is to envision that Musk is where he is by luck alone. I don't *think* people will argue that Musk keeps getting what he is after. To be a little more crass, that he keeps "winning".
To me, guy seems to get everything he wants. Yeah sure, if you wanna believe that. He's only up there because money attracts money. If I want to believe that? Do you think Musk isn't "winning" (by his own goals)? If you don't, that's a steelman I'd love to here. I've met lots of people who hold the position that Musk is varying degree of talentless, I've heard people make the argument that Musk isn't responsible for his own success, but I haven't heard anyone make the argument that Musk isn't succeeding. I didn't say Elon Musk isn't winning. Yeah, he's winning. Plenty of other historic frauds have also won. America has a convicted felon in power right now. Winning in and of itself doesn't impress me. It doesn’t impress me inherently, with ya there. I’m trying to understand why you think he is winning, without talent. It all luck, or is there some other vector I’m blind to? He has some talent, but it’s as an ideas guy and a hype man as much as anything else. Most of his wealth is built on some bloody talented folks doing their thing. Nothing wrong with that inherently, he didn’t do these thing himself. He’s the richest man in the world while his engineers in various companies are merely decently wealthy. I mean opinions are rather split, Mark Zuckerberg did legitimately make Facebook himself. Jeff Bezos’ Amazon empire expanded hugely due to expertise he didn’t personally have, but initially he did get that off the ground. I could get on board with the ideas guy and hype man. For me, I'd say he's pretty friggin talented at that, given the size of his following and the devotion of people that end up supporting him. There seems to be this nigh unshakeable faith in Elon, and I think that has a great deal to do with Tesla's valuation. He also seems to have a knack for being extremely well positioned to take advantaged of key opportunities. He is close to controlling interest/capability on space. He's working on control of the roads. He controls the free speech layer of the internet. He controls the future internet infrastructure platform. He's now deeply allied with the most powerful government and military in the world. AI is the only thing I don't think he has a major foothold in. Elon has his foot in AI as well with his xAI team Nvidia chief Jensen Huang has praised Elon Musk after his startup xAI built a supercomputer in 19 days, an effort that he said would take others years
Huang said, "As far as I know, there's only one person in the world who could do that; Elon is singular in his understanding of engineering and construction and large systems and marshaling resources; it's just unbelievable."
Huang also commented on the supercluster: "Just to put it in perspective, 100,000 GPUs—that's easily the fastest supercomputer on the planet as one cluster. What happened to Musk calling for a moratorium on pushing ahead full-scale with AI? Actually a position I agreed with, although from more a position of trying to figure out the ethics of it first versus his Skynet kinda rhetoric Does a compiler count as "AI" ? What about a code generator?
How long is a piece of string?
www.bbc.co.uk
I’m not making any kind of pro or anti-AI argument, just observing Musk’s own prior stated position.
People are also allowed to change their positions, but in this case I haven’t encountered him explaining any change in outlook.
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without a definition of AI you can not have an moratorium.
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Northern Ireland26269 Posts
Who cares? It wasn’t the point.
‘Why has Elon Musk founded an AI company if he previously advocated for a moratorium on that research?’
That is the point. Whatever HE thinks it is, he’s changed his tune. It could be complete bollocks, it could be a completely reasonable pivot.
People may have answers, direct quotes, plausible theories or whatever.
It someone described themselves as a giant socialist and then later said socialism was actually shit, and I pondered why, I wouldn’t lead with ‘but what is socialism?’
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On November 10 2024 01:22 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2024 00:46 BlackJack wrote:On November 09 2024 23:18 Magic Powers wrote:
Imagine if all that time and money was instead being invested in proven technology such as high speed rail. The trains can reach incredible speeds and the technology is readily available. America could already have created some of the infrastructure that would reduce some car travel. No need, California is already working on high speed rail after a ballot measures approved it in 2008. It’s now 16 years later and the project is $100 billion over budget and not even close to being finished. Of course we all know that anyone can achieve what Musk has if they just had the necessary seed money and a little luck. We’ll just have to assume the people pissing away billions on high speed rail are just extraordinarily unlucky. But fortunately for them they are even better at raising capital than Mr Musk because I’ll go to jail if I don’t give them some of my money. Road infrastructure cost the US over $200 billion in just 2021 alone. In 2023 it was a similar number. That's the annual cost. Compare that to 16 years of a Californian rail project costing something around $135 billion. You can make any number look big if you don't compare it to the cost of everything else. None of these numbers tell us anything if you look at them just in the abstract. Also look into how much government funding SpaceX receives annually. The totality over all the years is likely in the tens of billions. Even Tesla has received billions of funding. California's rail is projected to be completed in 2030. God knows if they'll pull it off, but you're falling for propaganda as always. https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-has-california-spent-11-billion-high-speed-rail-stretch-1901106
That's not propaganda, he legitimately built multiple flying reusable orbital rockets before the government built a train. And as you keep insisting, trains are the established tech.
One train costing over half the cost of all roads in the US yeah sounds like a huge number. Thanks for making it less abstract.
The government is a CUSTOMER of SpaceX. That's where the "billions in funding" come from. The grocery store also gets hundreds in funding from me. In both cases the person paying is getting something in return.
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On November 10 2024 04:01 WombaT wrote:
Who cares? It wasn’t the point.
the point becomes meaningless without a definition. maybe someone from the Daily Wire could make a movie called "What Is An AI?" 
The comments turn into a floating abstraction. Put in terms of math before you can create an algebra you must determine what is 0 and what is the unit.. what is 1.
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On November 10 2024 04:01 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2024 01:22 Magic Powers wrote:On November 10 2024 00:46 BlackJack wrote:On November 09 2024 23:18 Magic Powers wrote:
Imagine if all that time and money was instead being invested in proven technology such as high speed rail. The trains can reach incredible speeds and the technology is readily available. America could already have created some of the infrastructure that would reduce some car travel. No need, California is already working on high speed rail after a ballot measures approved it in 2008. It’s now 16 years later and the project is $100 billion over budget and not even close to being finished. Of course we all know that anyone can achieve what Musk has if they just had the necessary seed money and a little luck. We’ll just have to assume the people pissing away billions on high speed rail are just extraordinarily unlucky. But fortunately for them they are even better at raising capital than Mr Musk because I’ll go to jail if I don’t give them some of my money. Road infrastructure cost the US over $200 billion in just 2021 alone. In 2023 it was a similar number. That's the annual cost. Compare that to 16 years of a Californian rail project costing something around $135 billion. You can make any number look big if you don't compare it to the cost of everything else. None of these numbers tell us anything if you look at them just in the abstract. Also look into how much government funding SpaceX receives annually. The totality over all the years is likely in the tens of billions. Even Tesla has received billions of funding. California's rail is projected to be completed in 2030. God knows if they'll pull it off, but you're falling for propaganda as always. https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-has-california-spent-11-billion-high-speed-rail-stretch-1901106 That's not propaganda, he legitimately built multiple flying reusable orbital rockets before the government built a train. And as you keep insisting, trains are the established tech. One train costing over half the cost of all roads in the US yeah sounds like a huge number. Thanks for making it less abstract.The government is a CUSTOMER of SpaceX. That's where the "billions in funding" come from. The grocery store also gets hundreds in funding from me. In both cases the person paying is getting something in return.
You still don't read good.
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On November 10 2024 04:18 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2024 04:01 oBlade wrote:On November 10 2024 01:22 Magic Powers wrote:On November 10 2024 00:46 BlackJack wrote:On November 09 2024 23:18 Magic Powers wrote:
Imagine if all that time and money was instead being invested in proven technology such as high speed rail. The trains can reach incredible speeds and the technology is readily available. America could already have created some of the infrastructure that would reduce some car travel. No need, California is already working on high speed rail after a ballot measures approved it in 2008. It’s now 16 years later and the project is $100 billion over budget and not even close to being finished. Of course we all know that anyone can achieve what Musk has if they just had the necessary seed money and a little luck. We’ll just have to assume the people pissing away billions on high speed rail are just extraordinarily unlucky. But fortunately for them they are even better at raising capital than Mr Musk because I’ll go to jail if I don’t give them some of my money. Road infrastructure cost the US over $200 billion in just 2021 alone. In 2023 it was a similar number. That's the annual cost. Compare that to 16 years of a Californian rail project costing something around $135 billion. You can make any number look big if you don't compare it to the cost of everything else. None of these numbers tell us anything if you look at them just in the abstract. Also look into how much government funding SpaceX receives annually. The totality over all the years is likely in the tens of billions. Even Tesla has received billions of funding. California's rail is projected to be completed in 2030. God knows if they'll pull it off, but you're falling for propaganda as always. https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-has-california-spent-11-billion-high-speed-rail-stretch-1901106 That's not propaganda, he legitimately built multiple flying reusable orbital rockets before the government built a train. And as you keep insisting, trains are the established tech. One train costing over half the cost of all roads in the US yeah sounds like a huge number. Thanks for making it less abstract.The government is a CUSTOMER of SpaceX. That's where the "billions in funding" come from. The grocery store also gets hundreds in funding from me. In both cases the person paying is getting something in return. You still don't read good.
Have anything to add?
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Northern Ireland26269 Posts
On November 10 2024 04:17 JimmyJRaynor wrote:the point becomes meaningless without a definition. maybe someone from the Daily Wire could make a movie called "What Is An AI?"
No it doesn’t.
It’s a simple question
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On November 10 2024 04:21 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2024 04:18 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 10 2024 04:01 oBlade wrote:On November 10 2024 01:22 Magic Powers wrote:On November 10 2024 00:46 BlackJack wrote:On November 09 2024 23:18 Magic Powers wrote:
Imagine if all that time and money was instead being invested in proven technology such as high speed rail. The trains can reach incredible speeds and the technology is readily available. America could already have created some of the infrastructure that would reduce some car travel. No need, California is already working on high speed rail after a ballot measures approved it in 2008. It’s now 16 years later and the project is $100 billion over budget and not even close to being finished. Of course we all know that anyone can achieve what Musk has if they just had the necessary seed money and a little luck. We’ll just have to assume the people pissing away billions on high speed rail are just extraordinarily unlucky. But fortunately for them they are even better at raising capital than Mr Musk because I’ll go to jail if I don’t give them some of my money. Road infrastructure cost the US over $200 billion in just 2021 alone. In 2023 it was a similar number. That's the annual cost. Compare that to 16 years of a Californian rail project costing something around $135 billion. You can make any number look big if you don't compare it to the cost of everything else. None of these numbers tell us anything if you look at them just in the abstract. Also look into how much government funding SpaceX receives annually. The totality over all the years is likely in the tens of billions. Even Tesla has received billions of funding. California's rail is projected to be completed in 2030. God knows if they'll pull it off, but you're falling for propaganda as always. https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-has-california-spent-11-billion-high-speed-rail-stretch-1901106 That's not propaganda, he legitimately built multiple flying reusable orbital rockets before the government built a train. And as you keep insisting, trains are the established tech. One train costing over half the cost of all roads in the US yeah sounds like a huge number. Thanks for making it less abstract.The government is a CUSTOMER of SpaceX. That's where the "billions in funding" come from. The grocery store also gets hundreds in funding from me. In both cases the person paying is getting something in return. You still don't read good. Have anything to add?
That was it! You're trying to regurgitate information dishonestly. You're not so dumb as to think one project being 16 years and one project being one year makes them the same.
Do better.
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On November 10 2024 04:21 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2024 04:17 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On November 10 2024 04:01 WombaT wrote:
Who cares? It wasn’t the point.
the point becomes meaningless without a definition. maybe someone from the Daily Wire could make a movie called "What Is An AI?" No it doesn’t. It’s a simple question
again, its a floating abstraction.
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On November 10 2024 04:22 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2024 04:21 oBlade wrote:On November 10 2024 04:18 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 10 2024 04:01 oBlade wrote:On November 10 2024 01:22 Magic Powers wrote:On November 10 2024 00:46 BlackJack wrote:On November 09 2024 23:18 Magic Powers wrote:
Imagine if all that time and money was instead being invested in proven technology such as high speed rail. The trains can reach incredible speeds and the technology is readily available. America could already have created some of the infrastructure that would reduce some car travel. No need, California is already working on high speed rail after a ballot measures approved it in 2008. It’s now 16 years later and the project is $100 billion over budget and not even close to being finished. Of course we all know that anyone can achieve what Musk has if they just had the necessary seed money and a little luck. We’ll just have to assume the people pissing away billions on high speed rail are just extraordinarily unlucky. But fortunately for them they are even better at raising capital than Mr Musk because I’ll go to jail if I don’t give them some of my money. Road infrastructure cost the US over $200 billion in just 2021 alone. In 2023 it was a similar number. That's the annual cost. Compare that to 16 years of a Californian rail project costing something around $135 billion. You can make any number look big if you don't compare it to the cost of everything else. None of these numbers tell us anything if you look at them just in the abstract. Also look into how much government funding SpaceX receives annually. The totality over all the years is likely in the tens of billions. Even Tesla has received billions of funding. California's rail is projected to be completed in 2030. God knows if they'll pull it off, but you're falling for propaganda as always. https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-has-california-spent-11-billion-high-speed-rail-stretch-1901106 That's not propaganda, he legitimately built multiple flying reusable orbital rockets before the government built a train. And as you keep insisting, trains are the established tech. One train costing over half the cost of all roads in the US yeah sounds like a huge number. Thanks for making it less abstract.The government is a CUSTOMER of SpaceX. That's where the "billions in funding" come from. The grocery store also gets hundreds in funding from me. In both cases the person paying is getting something in return. You still don't read good. Have anything to add? That was it! You're trying to regurgitate information dishonestly. You're not so dumb as to think one project being 16 years and one project being one year makes them the same. Do better.
You got me buddy, I admit I'm completely wrong.
California's high speed rail is actually too cheap.
It should cost AT LEAST as much as the annual cost of every single road in the entire US put together.
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On November 10 2024 04:29 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2024 04:22 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 10 2024 04:21 oBlade wrote:On November 10 2024 04:18 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 10 2024 04:01 oBlade wrote:On November 10 2024 01:22 Magic Powers wrote:On November 10 2024 00:46 BlackJack wrote:On November 09 2024 23:18 Magic Powers wrote:
Imagine if all that time and money was instead being invested in proven technology such as high speed rail. The trains can reach incredible speeds and the technology is readily available. America could already have created some of the infrastructure that would reduce some car travel. No need, California is already working on high speed rail after a ballot measures approved it in 2008. It’s now 16 years later and the project is $100 billion over budget and not even close to being finished. Of course we all know that anyone can achieve what Musk has if they just had the necessary seed money and a little luck. We’ll just have to assume the people pissing away billions on high speed rail are just extraordinarily unlucky. But fortunately for them they are even better at raising capital than Mr Musk because I’ll go to jail if I don’t give them some of my money. Road infrastructure cost the US over $200 billion in just 2021 alone. In 2023 it was a similar number. That's the annual cost. Compare that to 16 years of a Californian rail project costing something around $135 billion. You can make any number look big if you don't compare it to the cost of everything else. None of these numbers tell us anything if you look at them just in the abstract. Also look into how much government funding SpaceX receives annually. The totality over all the years is likely in the tens of billions. Even Tesla has received billions of funding. California's rail is projected to be completed in 2030. God knows if they'll pull it off, but you're falling for propaganda as always. https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-has-california-spent-11-billion-high-speed-rail-stretch-1901106 That's not propaganda, he legitimately built multiple flying reusable orbital rockets before the government built a train. And as you keep insisting, trains are the established tech. One train costing over half the cost of all roads in the US yeah sounds like a huge number. Thanks for making it less abstract.The government is a CUSTOMER of SpaceX. That's where the "billions in funding" come from. The grocery store also gets hundreds in funding from me. In both cases the person paying is getting something in return. You still don't read good. Have anything to add? That was it! You're trying to regurgitate information dishonestly. You're not so dumb as to think one project being 16 years and one project being one year makes them the same. Do better. You got me buddy, I admit I'm completely wrong. California's high speed rail is actually too cheap. It should cost AT LEAST as much as the annual cost of every single road in the entire US put together.
And the road is cost mostly maintenance. In case you're not aware, the initial building of infrastucture costs more than subsequent maintenance. It's an intuitive way to illustrate that the cost of $135 billion for rail construction is nothing unusual. The duration of construction can be because of various factors, I'd guess it's politics. SpaceX for example doesn't have that same problem.
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The only way to evaluate whether the cost of a railroad is unusual would be to compare it to other railroads.
Try that. Do a quick cost per km for us. Should be interesting.
You cannot hide behind the snail's pace as an excuse. I don't even know how making excuses for this benefits you but anyway. The fact that the transit authority is wasting 135 billion dollars over 30 years doesn't make it better. It should not take 30 years and 135 billion dollars to build a train between two cities that have airports.
You say oBlade, what 30 years, I said 16.
Well, this originated in 2008 and the initial line isn't going to be running until estimated 2030-33 (meaning 2033) so I give until 2038 at least until the actual SF and LA are linked.
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On November 10 2024 04:29 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2024 04:22 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 10 2024 04:21 oBlade wrote:On November 10 2024 04:18 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 10 2024 04:01 oBlade wrote:On November 10 2024 01:22 Magic Powers wrote:On November 10 2024 00:46 BlackJack wrote:On November 09 2024 23:18 Magic Powers wrote:
Imagine if all that time and money was instead being invested in proven technology such as high speed rail. The trains can reach incredible speeds and the technology is readily available. America could already have created some of the infrastructure that would reduce some car travel. No need, California is already working on high speed rail after a ballot measures approved it in 2008. It’s now 16 years later and the project is $100 billion over budget and not even close to being finished. Of course we all know that anyone can achieve what Musk has if they just had the necessary seed money and a little luck. We’ll just have to assume the people pissing away billions on high speed rail are just extraordinarily unlucky. But fortunately for them they are even better at raising capital than Mr Musk because I’ll go to jail if I don’t give them some of my money. Road infrastructure cost the US over $200 billion in just 2021 alone. In 2023 it was a similar number. That's the annual cost. Compare that to 16 years of a Californian rail project costing something around $135 billion. You can make any number look big if you don't compare it to the cost of everything else. None of these numbers tell us anything if you look at them just in the abstract. Also look into how much government funding SpaceX receives annually. The totality over all the years is likely in the tens of billions. Even Tesla has received billions of funding. California's rail is projected to be completed in 2030. God knows if they'll pull it off, but you're falling for propaganda as always. https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-has-california-spent-11-billion-high-speed-rail-stretch-1901106 That's not propaganda, he legitimately built multiple flying reusable orbital rockets before the government built a train. And as you keep insisting, trains are the established tech. One train costing over half the cost of all roads in the US yeah sounds like a huge number. Thanks for making it less abstract.The government is a CUSTOMER of SpaceX. That's where the "billions in funding" come from. The grocery store also gets hundreds in funding from me. In both cases the person paying is getting something in return. You still don't read good. Have anything to add? That was it! You're trying to regurgitate information dishonestly. You're not so dumb as to think one project being 16 years and one project being one year makes them the same. Do better. You got me buddy, I admit I'm completely wrong. California's high speed rail is actually too cheap. It should cost AT LEAST as much as the annual cost of every single road in the entire US put together.
I'm just pointing to your dishonesty in a conversation where the person you're actually talking to shouldn't be distracted by your bad faith bullshit, that's all. If the person actually in the conversation has to call it out, it just distracts from the actual conversation you (apparently don't want to) have.
Do better!
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On November 10 2024 04:01 WombaT wrote:
Who cares? It wasn’t the point.
‘Why has Elon Musk founded an AI company if he previously advocated for a moratorium on that research?’
That is the point. Whatever HE thinks it is, he’s changed his tune. It could be complete bollocks, it could be a completely reasonable pivot.
People may have answers, direct quotes, plausible theories or whatever.
It someone described themselves as a giant socialist and then later said socialism was actually shit, and I pondered why, I wouldn’t lead with ‘but what is socialism?’
As a professional AI researcher who still has ties to the academic world, I can weigh in a bit here. That whole petition was rather polemic. Some people I know and trust signed it, while still stipulating that without a clearer definition it was pointless, but they agreed with the sentiment that the ethics and legal frameworks need to catch up to the technology. Others, whose arguments on *this* I found far more convincing didn't sign it for 2 main reasons:
1) a lot of key signatories seemed insincere, of which Musk was definitely one. OpenAI caught a lot of people with their pants down, and crying wolf and calling for a moratorium, would give them time to catch up, even if they'd be prohibited from surpassing it.
2) the petition hyped up the existential threat of AI, while sweeping the day-to-day ethical problems of AI under the rug. And they're doing that because focusing on existential threat hypes the technology and focuses on a threat that's far away, rather than highlighting the very real limitations of the technology and the impact these might have on minorities and other problems they can cause.
An existential threat also lines up nicely with their whole singularity cult thing. It's a lot sexier to worry about the end of the world than the fact that using "black" language will associate with drug abuse and criminality in your multi billion dollar costing neural network...
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Northern Ireland26269 Posts
On November 10 2024 04:22 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2024 04:21 WombaT wrote:On November 10 2024 04:17 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On November 10 2024 04:01 WombaT wrote:
Who cares? It wasn’t the point.
the point becomes meaningless without a definition. maybe someone from the Daily Wire could make a movie called "What Is An AI?" No it doesn’t. It’s a simple question again, its a floating abstraction.
No it isn’t, it’s a very simple question.
If I pre-empted a more general discussion on ‘AI’ and its ethics and implications, or anything similar then yes, you have to have specificity and detail.
‘Why has Donald Trump not built his wall yet after he said he would?’
‘Well sir, what is a wall? Indeed what is Donald Trump?’
You know this Jimmy don’t bullshit me, you don’t have to answer my question but it was a very specific one
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EPT
