On November 09 2024 09:53 Magic Powers wrote: [quote]
Yeah sure, if you wanna believe that. He's only up there because money attracts money.
If I want to believe that?
Do you think Musk isn't "winning" (by his own goals)?
If you don't, that's a steelman I'd love to here. I've met lots of people who hold the position that Musk is varying degree of talentless, I've heard people make the argument that Musk isn't responsible for his own success, but I haven't heard anyone make the argument that Musk isn't succeeding.
I didn't say Elon Musk isn't winning. Yeah, he's winning. Plenty of other historic frauds have also won. America has a convicted felon in power right now. Winning in and of itself doesn't impress me.
It doesn’t impress me inherently, with ya there.
I’m trying to understand why you think he is winning, without talent. It all luck, or is there some other vector I’m blind to?
You can make boatloads of money if you're willing to sell your soul, this is not a secret. Most people just aren't willing to do that. Elon Musk has done it plenty of times, that's what sets him apart.
But lots of people sell their soul and make nothing, no?
I can consider that being willing to sell your soul might give you an advantage.
But how? Who do you sell it to? Or do you mean using unethical behaviors? Even then, lots of people are unethical and don’t win. More unethical failures than unethical winners.
Elon Musk was an early investor of Tesla. The founders committed the grave offense of not naming him as a relevant part of the company (because he really wasn't). He was so mad at them that he pushed them out of the company, paid them off outside of court (they're not allowed to talk about the details) and then he made himself the face of Tesla. People wouldn't even associate his name with Tesla if he hadn't been such an asshole.
Just one of many examples.
Step 1: take over as CEO of a struggling startup before they have sold their first car Step 2: trillion dollar valuation
It’s so simple
Elon Musk contributed nothing to Tesla's success. He's only an investor.
LOL Jesus Christ
Give up dude, people are just extremely salty because of the election. There is nothing to gain here
Do you think Musk isn't "winning" (by his own goals)?
If you don't, that's a steelman I'd love to here. I've met lots of people who hold the position that Musk is varying degree of talentless, I've heard people make the argument that Musk isn't responsible for his own success, but I haven't heard anyone make the argument that Musk isn't succeeding.
I didn't say Elon Musk isn't winning. Yeah, he's winning. Plenty of other historic frauds have also won. America has a convicted felon in power right now. Winning in and of itself doesn't impress me.
It doesn’t impress me inherently, with ya there.
I’m trying to understand why you think he is winning, without talent. It all luck, or is there some other vector I’m blind to?
You can make boatloads of money if you're willing to sell your soul, this is not a secret. Most people just aren't willing to do that. Elon Musk has done it plenty of times, that's what sets him apart.
But lots of people sell their soul and make nothing, no?
I can consider that being willing to sell your soul might give you an advantage.
But how? Who do you sell it to? Or do you mean using unethical behaviors? Even then, lots of people are unethical and don’t win. More unethical failures than unethical winners.
Elon Musk was an early investor of Tesla. The founders committed the grave offense of not naming him as a relevant part of the company (because he really wasn't). He was so mad at them that he pushed them out of the company, paid them off outside of court (they're not allowed to talk about the details) and then he made himself the face of Tesla. People wouldn't even associate his name with Tesla if he hadn't been such an asshole.
Just one of many examples.
Step 1: take over as CEO of a struggling startup before they have sold their first car Step 2: trillion dollar valuation
It’s so simple
Elon Musk contributed nothing to Tesla's success. He's only an investor.
LOL Jesus Christ
Give up dude, people are just extremely salty because of the election. There is nothing to gain here
Sort of, the election was two days ago. Regarding Elon Musk I'm mostly salty about him asking Austria - literally the country where Hitler is from - to become more fascist right after we voted fascists into power.
For those who care: fortunately for us those fascists are yet to form a coalition. Fingers crossed that they fail. I don't want us to turn into the little version of Trump's America.
Do you think Musk isn't "winning" (by his own goals)?
If you don't, that's a steelman I'd love to here. I've met lots of people who hold the position that Musk is varying degree of talentless, I've heard people make the argument that Musk isn't responsible for his own success, but I haven't heard anyone make the argument that Musk isn't succeeding.
I didn't say Elon Musk isn't winning. Yeah, he's winning. Plenty of other historic frauds have also won. America has a convicted felon in power right now. Winning in and of itself doesn't impress me.
It doesn’t impress me inherently, with ya there.
I’m trying to understand why you think he is winning, without talent. It all luck, or is there some other vector I’m blind to?
You can make boatloads of money if you're willing to sell your soul, this is not a secret. Most people just aren't willing to do that. Elon Musk has done it plenty of times, that's what sets him apart.
But lots of people sell their soul and make nothing, no?
I can consider that being willing to sell your soul might give you an advantage.
But how? Who do you sell it to? Or do you mean using unethical behaviors? Even then, lots of people are unethical and don’t win. More unethical failures than unethical winners.
Elon Musk was an early investor of Tesla. The founders committed the grave offense of not naming him as a relevant part of the company (because he really wasn't). He was so mad at them that he pushed them out of the company, paid them off outside of court (they're not allowed to talk about the details) and then he made himself the face of Tesla. People wouldn't even associate his name with Tesla if he hadn't been such an asshole.
Just one of many examples.
Step 1: take over as CEO of a struggling startup before they have sold their first car Step 2: trillion dollar valuation
It’s so simple
Elon Musk contributed nothing to Tesla's success. He's only an investor.
LOL Jesus Christ
Give up dude, people are just extremely salty because of the election. There is nothing to gain here
people need some serious copium on elon, hes nothing like trump, he has some actual talents. think of him more as an unhinged Steve Jobs. what is clear at this point however, we live in an oligarchy state now and Twitter is an official state media propagandist joint
On November 09 2024 12:08 Husyelt wrote: people need some serious copium on elon, hes nothing like trump, he has some actual talents. think of him more as an unhinged Steve Jobs. what is clear at this point however, we live in an oligarchy state now and Twitter is an official state media propagandist joint
Elon Musk is nothing like Trump, I see. Lets test that. 1) Musk is a multi-billionaire. That's not a difference. 2) Musk doesn't have the power to order the military. That's a difference. 3) Musk supports fascism. That's not a difference. Yeah, "nothing like Trump" doesn't hold up to scrutiny. They're more similar than dissimilar.
Do you think Musk isn't "winning" (by his own goals)?
If you don't, that's a steelman I'd love to here. I've met lots of people who hold the position that Musk is varying degree of talentless, I've heard people make the argument that Musk isn't responsible for his own success, but I haven't heard anyone make the argument that Musk isn't succeeding.
I didn't say Elon Musk isn't winning. Yeah, he's winning. Plenty of other historic frauds have also won. America has a convicted felon in power right now. Winning in and of itself doesn't impress me.
It doesn’t impress me inherently, with ya there.
I’m trying to understand why you think he is winning, without talent. It all luck, or is there some other vector I’m blind to?
You can make boatloads of money if you're willing to sell your soul, this is not a secret. Most people just aren't willing to do that. Elon Musk has done it plenty of times, that's what sets him apart.
But lots of people sell their soul and make nothing, no?
I can consider that being willing to sell your soul might give you an advantage.
But how? Who do you sell it to? Or do you mean using unethical behaviors? Even then, lots of people are unethical and don’t win. More unethical failures than unethical winners.
Elon Musk was an early investor of Tesla. The founders committed the grave offense of not naming him as a relevant part of the company (because he really wasn't). He was so mad at them that he pushed them out of the company, paid them off outside of court (they're not allowed to talk about the details) and then he made himself the face of Tesla. People wouldn't even associate his name with Tesla if he hadn't been such an asshole.
Just one of many examples.
Step 1: take over as CEO of a struggling startup before they have sold their first car Step 2: trillion dollar valuation
It’s so simple
Elon Musk contributed nothing to Tesla's success. He's only an investor.
LOL Jesus Christ
Give up dude, people are just extremely salty because of the election. There is nothing to gain here
Oh ok it’s definitely that.
If I could be arsed scrolling back far enough, or just locating said content in a sea of social media nonsense or old WhatsApp chats, I was saying the same things 5/6 years ago, perhaps even further back
On November 09 2024 12:08 Husyelt wrote: people need some serious copium on elon, hes nothing like trump, he has some actual talents. think of him more as an unhinged Steve Jobs. what is clear at this point however, we live in an oligarchy state now and Twitter is an official state media propagandist joint
Elon Musk is nothing like Trump, I see. Lets test that. 1) Musk is a multi-billionaire. That's not a difference. 2) Musk doesn't have the power to order the military. That's a difference. 3) Musk supports fascism. That's not a difference. Yeah, "nothing like Trump" doesn't hold up to scrutiny. They're more similar than dissimilar.
let me rephrase my stance Elon musk has genuine talents on the business/creativity front and not just fraud wise (although he has that in spades too)
On November 09 2024 12:08 Husyelt wrote: people need some serious copium on elon, hes nothing like trump, he has some actual talents. think of him more as an unhinged Steve Jobs. what is clear at this point however, we live in an oligarchy state now and Twitter is an official state media propagandist joint
Elon Musk is nothing like Trump, I see. Lets test that. 1) Musk is a multi-billionaire. That's not a difference. 2) Musk doesn't have the power to order the military. That's a difference. 3) Musk supports fascism. That's not a difference. Yeah, "nothing like Trump" doesn't hold up to scrutiny. They're more similar than dissimilar.
let me rephrase my stance Elon musk has genuine talents on the business/creativity front and not just fraud wise (although he has that in spades too)
And Trump is a great TV personality. That came after he failed at everything else. I understand that Musk isn't completely incapable, but when I call him a "talentless hack" I'm not saying he's literally without any abilities whatsoever. He lacks what it takes to contribute to the companies he owns, that's what it means. He's running Twitter to the ground as the latest example.
On November 08 2024 21:48 Magic Powers wrote: I'm biased against Elon Musk now, but I considered him a fraud years ago. It started with the hyperloop and the more I learned about him the more convinced I was that he was a talentless hack who rides the wave of his investments and puts his face on other people's accomplishments. The reason why I opened this thread is his politics, but me calling him a fraud has nothing to do with my political bias against him. Two things can be true at the same time, he's a fraud and he's a fascism supporter, and I opened this thread because of the latter, not the former. I wouldn't have bothered to expose him on tl.net if he hadn't attacked my country for not being facist enough.
What do you mean by talentless?
When I read that, my default is to envision that Musk is where he is by luck alone. I don't *think* people will argue that Musk keeps getting what he is after. To be a little more crass, that he keeps "winning".
To me, guy seems to get everything he wants.
Yeah sure, if you wanna believe that. He's only up there because money attracts money.
If I want to believe that?
Do you think Musk isn't "winning" (by his own goals)?
If you don't, that's a steelman I'd love to here. I've met lots of people who hold the position that Musk is varying degree of talentless, I've heard people make the argument that Musk isn't responsible for his own success, but I haven't heard anyone make the argument that Musk isn't succeeding.
I didn't say Elon Musk isn't winning. Yeah, he's winning. Plenty of other historic frauds have also won. America has a convicted felon in power right now. Winning in and of itself doesn't impress me.
It doesn’t impress me inherently, with ya there.
I’m trying to understand why you think he is winning, without talent. It all luck, or is there some other vector I’m blind to?
He has some talent, but it’s as an ideas guy and a hype man as much as anything else. Most of his wealth is built on some bloody talented folks doing their thing.
Nothing wrong with that inherently, he didn’t do these thing himself. He’s the richest man in the world while his engineers in various companies are merely decently wealthy.
I mean opinions are rather split, Mark Zuckerberg did legitimately make Facebook himself. Jeff Bezos’ Amazon empire expanded hugely due to expertise he didn’t personally have, but initially he did get that off the ground.
I could get on board with the ideas guy and hype man. For me, I'd say he's pretty friggin talented at that, given the size of his following and the devotion of people that end up supporting him.
There seems to be this nigh unshakeable faith in Elon, and I think that has a great deal to do with Tesla's valuation.
He also seems to have a knack for being extremely well positioned to take advantaged of key opportunities. He is close to controlling interest/capability on space. He's working on control of the roads. He controls the free speech layer of the internet. He controls the future internet infrastructure platform. He's now deeply allied with the most powerful government and military in the world. AI is the only thing I don't think he has a major foothold in.
On November 08 2024 21:48 Magic Powers wrote: I'm biased against Elon Musk now, but I considered him a fraud years ago. It started with the hyperloop and the more I learned about him the more convinced I was that he was a talentless hack who rides the wave of his investments and puts his face on other people's accomplishments. The reason why I opened this thread is his politics, but me calling him a fraud has nothing to do with my political bias against him. Two things can be true at the same time, he's a fraud and he's a fascism supporter, and I opened this thread because of the latter, not the former. I wouldn't have bothered to expose him on tl.net if he hadn't attacked my country for not being facist enough.
What do you mean by talentless?
When I read that, my default is to envision that Musk is where he is by luck alone. I don't *think* people will argue that Musk keeps getting what he is after. To be a little more crass, that he keeps "winning".
To me, guy seems to get everything he wants.
Yeah sure, if you wanna believe that. He's only up there because money attracts money.
If I want to believe that?
Do you think Musk isn't "winning" (by his own goals)?
If you don't, that's a steelman I'd love to here. I've met lots of people who hold the position that Musk is varying degree of talentless, I've heard people make the argument that Musk isn't responsible for his own success, but I haven't heard anyone make the argument that Musk isn't succeeding.
I didn't say Elon Musk isn't winning. Yeah, he's winning. Plenty of other historic frauds have also won. America has a convicted felon in power right now. Winning in and of itself doesn't impress me.
It doesn’t impress me inherently, with ya there.
I’m trying to understand why you think he is winning, without talent. It all luck, or is there some other vector I’m blind to?
He has some talent, but it’s as an ideas guy and a hype man as much as anything else. Most of his wealth is built on some bloody talented folks doing their thing.
Nothing wrong with that inherently, he didn’t do these thing himself. He’s the richest man in the world while his engineers in various companies are merely decently wealthy.
I mean opinions are rather split, Mark Zuckerberg did legitimately make Facebook himself. Jeff Bezos’ Amazon empire expanded hugely due to expertise he didn’t personally have, but initially he did get that off the ground.
I could get on board with the ideas guy and hype man. For me, I'd say he's pretty friggin talented at that, given the size of his following and the devotion of people that end up supporting him.
There seems to be this nigh unshakeable faith in Elon, and I think that has a great deal to do with Tesla's valuation.
He also seems to have a knack for being extremely well positioned to take advantaged of key opportunities. He is close to controlling interest/capability on space. He's working on control of the roads. He controls the free speech layer of the internet. He controls the future internet infrastructure platform. He's now deeply allied with the most powerful government and military in the world. AI is the only thing I don't think he has a major foothold in.
Elon has his foot in AI as well with his xAI team
Nvidia chief Jensen Huang has praised Elon Musk after his startup xAI built a supercomputer in 19 days, an effort that he said would take others years
Huang said, "As far as I know, there's only one person in the world who could do that; Elon is singular in his understanding of engineering and construction and large systems and marshaling resources; it's just unbelievable."
Huang also commented on the supercluster: "Just to put it in perspective, 100,000 GPUs—that's easily the fastest supercomputer on the planet as one cluster.
I love how Elon feeds the flat earthers and the fake moon landing people with double entendres! That's how you get the people who think you are lying on your side. One of my bigger customers employs a bunch of guys under 25 who all think the moon landings were probably faked and they love Elon.
With this kind of jabber Elon gets the Space Geeks AND the Space Skeptics all on his side. Very well done!
We don't test anything... we just do it! LOL.
Elon got a bump in popularity from a tactic Ronald Reagan employed early in his presidency. Elon's popularity soared when he laid off 80% of Twitter. Ronald Reagan's popularity went way up after he fired the Air Traffic Controllers. In both cases the fired employees were viewed as lazy and arrogant by the general public.
On November 08 2024 21:48 Magic Powers wrote: I'm biased against Elon Musk now, but I considered him a fraud years ago. It started with the hyperloop and the more I learned about him the more convinced I was that he was a talentless hack who rides the wave of his investments and puts his face on other people's accomplishments. The reason why I opened this thread is his politics, but me calling him a fraud has nothing to do with my political bias against him. Two things can be true at the same time, he's a fraud and he's a fascism supporter, and I opened this thread because of the latter, not the former. I wouldn't have bothered to expose him on tl.net if he hadn't attacked my country for not being facist enough.
What do you mean by talentless?
When I read that, my default is to envision that Musk is where he is by luck alone. I don't *think* people will argue that Musk keeps getting what he is after. To be a little more crass, that he keeps "winning".
To me, guy seems to get everything he wants.
There's a first selection in that you have to be the kind of person who gets in that position: greedy, cold, no empathy, that kind of thing. But then once you're the right kind of person it's almost entirely luck.
On November 08 2024 21:48 Magic Powers wrote: I'm biased against Elon Musk now, but I considered him a fraud years ago. It started with the hyperloop and the more I learned about him the more convinced I was that he was a talentless hack who rides the wave of his investments and puts his face on other people's accomplishments. The reason why I opened this thread is his politics, but me calling him a fraud has nothing to do with my political bias against him. Two things can be true at the same time, he's a fraud and he's a fascism supporter, and I opened this thread because of the latter, not the former. I wouldn't have bothered to expose him on tl.net if he hadn't attacked my country for not being facist enough.
What do you mean by talentless?
When I read that, my default is to envision that Musk is where he is by luck alone. I don't *think* people will argue that Musk keeps getting what he is after. To be a little more crass, that he keeps "winning".
To me, guy seems to get everything he wants.
There's a first selection in that you have to be the kind of person who gets in that position: greedy, cold, no empathy, that kind of thing. But then once you're the right kind of person it's almost entirely luck.
nah, Musk is talented. There is a degree of luck in anything and everything. you can conflate that into the claim Musk's rise is almost all luck I guess. meh.
Regarding the topic of the thread. Most of the people who are at Musk's level of power lie, tell carefully woven half truths etc. In general, most adults are liars. meh.
Do you think Musk isn't "winning" (by his own goals)?
If you don't, that's a steelman I'd love to here. I've met lots of people who hold the position that Musk is varying degree of talentless, I've heard people make the argument that Musk isn't responsible for his own success, but I haven't heard anyone make the argument that Musk isn't succeeding.
I didn't say Elon Musk isn't winning. Yeah, he's winning. Plenty of other historic frauds have also won. America has a convicted felon in power right now. Winning in and of itself doesn't impress me.
It doesn’t impress me inherently, with ya there.
I’m trying to understand why you think he is winning, without talent. It all luck, or is there some other vector I’m blind to?
You can make boatloads of money if you're willing to sell your soul, this is not a secret. Most people just aren't willing to do that. Elon Musk has done it plenty of times, that's what sets him apart.
But lots of people sell their soul and make nothing, no?
I can consider that being willing to sell your soul might give you an advantage.
But how? Who do you sell it to? Or do you mean using unethical behaviors? Even then, lots of people are unethical and don’t win. More unethical failures than unethical winners.
Elon Musk was an early investor of Tesla. The founders committed the grave offense of not naming him as a relevant part of the company (because he really wasn't). He was so mad at them that he pushed them out of the company, paid them off outside of court (they're not allowed to talk about the details) and then he made himself the face of Tesla. People wouldn't even associate his name with Tesla if he hadn't been such an asshole.
Just one of many examples.
Step 1: take over as CEO of a struggling startup before they have sold their first car Step 2: trillion dollar valuation
It’s so simple
Elon Musk contributed nothing to Tesla's success. He's only an investor.
LOL Jesus Christ
What, give me a hundred million and I can invest, too. Problem?
Dude, this is pathetic for so many reasons. I get that you don't like him but you're arguing like my 4 year old.
On November 09 2024 10:22 Magic Powers wrote: [quote]
I didn't say Elon Musk isn't winning. Yeah, he's winning. Plenty of other historic frauds have also won. America has a convicted felon in power right now. Winning in and of itself doesn't impress me.
It doesn’t impress me inherently, with ya there.
I’m trying to understand why you think he is winning, without talent. It all luck, or is there some other vector I’m blind to?
You can make boatloads of money if you're willing to sell your soul, this is not a secret. Most people just aren't willing to do that. Elon Musk has done it plenty of times, that's what sets him apart.
But lots of people sell their soul and make nothing, no?
I can consider that being willing to sell your soul might give you an advantage.
But how? Who do you sell it to? Or do you mean using unethical behaviors? Even then, lots of people are unethical and don’t win. More unethical failures than unethical winners.
Elon Musk was an early investor of Tesla. The founders committed the grave offense of not naming him as a relevant part of the company (because he really wasn't). He was so mad at them that he pushed them out of the company, paid them off outside of court (they're not allowed to talk about the details) and then he made himself the face of Tesla. People wouldn't even associate his name with Tesla if he hadn't been such an asshole.
Just one of many examples.
Step 1: take over as CEO of a struggling startup before they have sold their first car Step 2: trillion dollar valuation
It’s so simple
Elon Musk contributed nothing to Tesla's success. He's only an investor.
LOL Jesus Christ
What, give me a hundred million and I can invest, too. Problem?
Dude, this is pathetic for so many reasons. I get that you don't like him but you're arguing like my 4 year old.
Believe whatever you want, Elon Musk is fake. His companies are real, he is not.
On November 09 2024 10:22 Magic Powers wrote: [quote]
I didn't say Elon Musk isn't winning. Yeah, he's winning. Plenty of other historic frauds have also won. America has a convicted felon in power right now. Winning in and of itself doesn't impress me.
It doesn’t impress me inherently, with ya there.
I’m trying to understand why you think he is winning, without talent. It all luck, or is there some other vector I’m blind to?
You can make boatloads of money if you're willing to sell your soul, this is not a secret. Most people just aren't willing to do that. Elon Musk has done it plenty of times, that's what sets him apart.
But lots of people sell their soul and make nothing, no?
I can consider that being willing to sell your soul might give you an advantage.
But how? Who do you sell it to? Or do you mean using unethical behaviors? Even then, lots of people are unethical and don’t win. More unethical failures than unethical winners.
Elon Musk was an early investor of Tesla. The founders committed the grave offense of not naming him as a relevant part of the company (because he really wasn't). He was so mad at them that he pushed them out of the company, paid them off outside of court (they're not allowed to talk about the details) and then he made himself the face of Tesla. People wouldn't even associate his name with Tesla if he hadn't been such an asshole.
Just one of many examples.
Step 1: take over as CEO of a struggling startup before they have sold their first car Step 2: trillion dollar valuation
It’s so simple
Elon Musk contributed nothing to Tesla's success. He's only an investor.
LOL Jesus Christ
What, give me a hundred million and I can invest, too. Problem?
Dude, this is pathetic for so many reasons. I get that you don't like him but you're arguing like my 4 year old.
Your 4 year old is right. The meritocracy of capitalism is pure ideology.
Lets continue with another example of Elon Musk's failures: the hyperloop. He evidently realized it was going to fail, as he stopped associating himself with his project long ago. Is he even investing in it anymore? I can't find any information on that.
Plenty of engineers have said that the safety issues with a perfect vacuum at such speeds and distances were unsolvable. In reality the hyperloop never even came far enough to address safety, as it couldn't even make the transportation work in and of itself (in an absolutely perfect setting). The best they could pull off as of late was a 100 meters distance (300 ft) at 30 kmh (18 mph). That's after more than ten years of development.
And that doesn't even address the overwhelming cost and hurdles of implementing the technology if they somehow got it to work.
Imagine if all that time and money was instead being invested in proven technology such as high speed rail. The trains can reach incredible speeds and the technology is readily available. America could already have created some of the infrastructure that would reduce some car travel. Instead they chase after pipe dreams. As always, Elon Musk wants to save the world - but with the catch that he must be the face of it, otherwise he's not interested.
Even this positively worded article makes quite clear that the hyperloop is dead in the water.
On November 08 2024 21:48 Magic Powers wrote: I'm biased against Elon Musk now, but I considered him a fraud years ago. It started with the hyperloop and the more I learned about him the more convinced I was that he was a talentless hack who rides the wave of his investments and puts his face on other people's accomplishments. The reason why I opened this thread is his politics, but me calling him a fraud has nothing to do with my political bias against him. Two things can be true at the same time, he's a fraud and he's a fascism supporter, and I opened this thread because of the latter, not the former. I wouldn't have bothered to expose him on tl.net if he hadn't attacked my country for not being facist enough.
What do you mean by talentless?
When I read that, my default is to envision that Musk is where he is by luck alone. I don't *think* people will argue that Musk keeps getting what he is after. To be a little more crass, that he keeps "winning".
To me, guy seems to get everything he wants.
Yeah sure, if you wanna believe that. He's only up there because money attracts money.
If I want to believe that?
Do you think Musk isn't "winning" (by his own goals)?
If you don't, that's a steelman I'd love to here. I've met lots of people who hold the position that Musk is varying degree of talentless, I've heard people make the argument that Musk isn't responsible for his own success, but I haven't heard anyone make the argument that Musk isn't succeeding.
I didn't say Elon Musk isn't winning. Yeah, he's winning. Plenty of other historic frauds have also won. America has a convicted felon in power right now. Winning in and of itself doesn't impress me.
It doesn’t impress me inherently, with ya there.
I’m trying to understand why you think he is winning, without talent. It all luck, or is there some other vector I’m blind to?
He has some talent, but it’s as an ideas guy and a hype man as much as anything else. Most of his wealth is built on some bloody talented folks doing their thing.
Nothing wrong with that inherently, he didn’t do these thing himself. He’s the richest man in the world while his engineers in various companies are merely decently wealthy.
I mean opinions are rather split, Mark Zuckerberg did legitimately make Facebook himself. Jeff Bezos’ Amazon empire expanded hugely due to expertise he didn’t personally have, but initially he did get that off the ground.
I could get on board with the ideas guy and hype man. For me, I'd say he's pretty friggin talented at that, given the size of his following and the devotion of people that end up supporting him.
There seems to be this nigh unshakeable faith in Elon, and I think that has a great deal to do with Tesla's valuation.
He also seems to have a knack for being extremely well positioned to take advantaged of key opportunities. He is close to controlling interest/capability on space. He's working on control of the roads. He controls the free speech layer of the internet. He controls the future internet infrastructure platform. He's now deeply allied with the most powerful government and military in the world. AI is the only thing I don't think he has a major foothold in.
This would be a big worry for those who have concerns over his particular worldview. I think a very reasonable worry about any person having that much (potential) influence.
There are also benefits or best-case scenarios. If you get starry-eyed sci-fi nerd Musk, wanting sci-fi shit done, having one person with a finger and pull in so many times can actually be advantageous. Or at the very least not damaging.
If you get ‘I’m the smartest person in the room on every topic’ Musk, very problematic
There’s also self-interested Musk to consider as well.
The first, isn’t particularly troublesome to me, and indeed whatever his skillset is, may actually be a net beneficial arrangement.
There’s a very good reason that even people very critical of Musk, or those who call him a fraud have a problem with Space X. It’s cool sci-fi shit, it’s quite aspirational stuff.
Even people who think they’re massively overvalued, or Musk is a total fraud also don’t like, hate Tesla particularly. But there’s clearly a massive conflict of interest if Musk interjects on public transportation policy. See - Hyperloop
Similarly Starlink, as tech fine. It’s given decent internet to poor areas of the world, or isolated people in even rich countries Don’t publicly make a virtue of providing it to Ukraine’s military and rug pull them.
Now, you have an individual whose businesses absolutely benefited from state subsidies, or working with state agencies that helped him into his current position, potentially being earmarked for some ‘Government Efficiency Tsar’ kind of role in Trump’s admin.
I’ll reserve judgement, there’s clearly a best case outcome where it’s ’let’s find the best way to do things, where government investment could pay off and we find the next Space X’ or what have you. There’s also clearly a worst case where Musk uses his influence to cut the rope that he climbed up and prevent potential competitors with his own companies even getting off the ground.
The real commonality is one’s political prescriptions become much more of a big deal if you’re actively involved in direct political policy or advocacy. There will be a cohort who outright will hate an individual for their views outright, but I think most can demarcate somewhat.
George Soros isn’t the right’s go-to boogeyman because of his political opinions, it’s in his political advocacy and funding of various political groups.
Ironically enough a man who made his a big chunk of his initial fortune shorting against the British pound sterling and precipitating in part an economic crisis in the UK that had real impacts on people’s daily lives.
I’m trying to understand why you think he is winning, without talent. It all luck, or is there some other vector I’m blind to?
You can make boatloads of money if you're willing to sell your soul, this is not a secret. Most people just aren't willing to do that. Elon Musk has done it plenty of times, that's what sets him apart.
But lots of people sell their soul and make nothing, no?
I can consider that being willing to sell your soul might give you an advantage.
But how? Who do you sell it to? Or do you mean using unethical behaviors? Even then, lots of people are unethical and don’t win. More unethical failures than unethical winners.
Elon Musk was an early investor of Tesla. The founders committed the grave offense of not naming him as a relevant part of the company (because he really wasn't). He was so mad at them that he pushed them out of the company, paid them off outside of court (they're not allowed to talk about the details) and then he made himself the face of Tesla. People wouldn't even associate his name with Tesla if he hadn't been such an asshole.
Just one of many examples.
Step 1: take over as CEO of a struggling startup before they have sold their first car Step 2: trillion dollar valuation
It’s so simple
Elon Musk contributed nothing to Tesla's success. He's only an investor.
LOL Jesus Christ
What, give me a hundred million and I can invest, too. Problem?
Dude, this is pathetic for so many reasons. I get that you don't like him but you're arguing like my 4 year old.
Your 4 year old is right. The meritocracy of capitalism is pure ideology.
I call it the Circle of Childish Wisdom. Perhaps I’ll come up with a better name.
‘Why are people poor couldn’t we just make more money?’ is something I think any non-psychopath child has asked. I know I did and I know I had to field that question.
And ya gotta go (if they’re very young) ‘well, it’s complicated son, I’ll explain when you’re a bit older.’ If they’re a bit older you can sorta explain the idea that money is an abstraction of finite value and inflation, mostly with analogies.
But I’ve somewhat adopted this approach. Kids get taught basic morality far before they get taught the painful pragmatism of the world, and often their instinct is the one you should circle back to. So it’s essentially kid instinct, then the ‘it’s complicated’ phase, and then circling back to ‘wait, on some intuitive moral level my 8 year old self was actually right. Ok how do we do the thing with all the complexity?’
It’s not a flex, I think it’s a rather low bar, kiddo said do me the other day ‘Trump doesn’t seem as smart as you or mummy, why is he going to be President?’
Maybe he is smarter than me, he sure doesn’t present like it.
But kids’ instincts are usually on the money and we sorta delude ourselves collectively otherwise. They’re sold on our society being meritocratic, and they very much notice the evidence that in many spheres it isn’t.
EPT
