EPTMusk has supprotred Trump for a long time, why is this the day you leave?
Elon Musk's lies, propaganda, etc. - Page 12
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
Musk has supprotred Trump for a long time, why is this the day you leave? | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9646 Posts
On November 08 2024 00:52 WombaT wrote: Well yes, these things happened. Regardless of one’s opinion on the previous regime, and I think they made mistakes, Twitter has granted more of those kind of requests since his takeover. People just don’t give a shit if it’s not their country, or they’re now free to call folks the N word. Now, crucially, I have argued many, many times for social media being moderated/censored in some way. I don’t have a perfect system, but I think it should revolve around some kind of consistent standard that’s fleshed out between industry, governments and end users. I’ve made at least 10 walls of text in USPol on this topic in the last decade, perhaps more. People are free to disagree with me on that. Go for it! But, I’ve never claimed to be against the idea of censorship, just what that looks like. Musk has, he’s literally said he’s a free speech absolutist, and people of a similar mind cheered his takeover on that basis. Which makes it rather awkward in any scenario where he’s censoring content he doesn’t like, or people who claim to be anti-censorship don’t have an issue with it. Musk is definitely a free speech absolutist, if you agree with him and Putin doesn't want him to censor you. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4091 Posts
Prove me wrong. This is entirely factual. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12172 Posts
On November 08 2024 01:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: Musk has supprotred Trump for a long time, why is this the day you leave? Because time happens in a linear way and I can't go back to change what I did in the past. I did have him blocked on Twitter for a long while though and he just changed the block feature to force people to see his posts I guess that had an influence. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On November 08 2024 01:25 Nebuchad wrote: Because time happens in a linear way and I can't go back to change what I did in the past. I did have him blocked on Twitter for a long while though and he just changed the block feature to force people to see his posts I guess that had an influence. For real? i thought people had some real reasons. I have seen many leftists in Finland also leave. It's a better place without you tbh  | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25211 Posts
On November 08 2024 01:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: Musk has supprotred Trump for a long time, why is this the day you leave? Musk didn’t buy Twitter for its business value, he bought it for his own specific ideological reasons. Ones he wanted to bring in and change the ethos of his purchase. Which he’s explicitly said. I don’t agree with those values, so I stopped using said platform. I’m not really in the business of boycotting x company because their owner or CEO has particular political views. There’s plenty I use where a CEO/owner supports Trump, and probably many more where that’s the case and I’m unaware of it. However if the company becomes governed by said political views, then I’m fine cutting and running. And it’s not purely political either, I think basically every decision Musk has made on the platform has been for the worse on a basic functionality level. Verification was a fucking mess. The suggested content algorithms kept throwing me shit I actively dislike I must also add the caveat that I was never a massive Twitter user, I had a few niches I followed and I’ve largely been trying to cut my social media use anyway, so it wasn’t really a huge deal for me. I didn’t migrate to a Bluesky or Mastodon because I didn’t really miss it in my life | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
lol | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
On November 08 2024 01:36 WombaT wrote: Musk didn’t buy Twitter for its business value, he bought it for his own specific ideological reasons. Ones he wanted to bring in and change the ethos of his purchase. Which he’s explicitly said. I don’t agree with those values, so I stopped using said platform. I’m not really in the business of boycotting x company because their owner or CEO has particular political views. There’s plenty I use where a CEO/owner supports Trump, and probably many more where that’s the case and I’m unaware of it. However if the company becomes governed by said political views, then I’m fine cutting and running. And it’s not purely political either, I think basically every decision Musk has made on the platform has been for the worse on a basic functionality level. Verification was a fucking mess. The suggested content algorithms kept throwing me shit I actively dislike I must also add the caveat that I was never a massive Twitter user, I had a few niches I followed and I’ve largely been trying to cut my social media use anyway, so it wasn’t really a huge deal for me. I didn’t migrate to a Bluesky or Mastodon because I didn’t really miss it in my life yeah well you at least have a real reason. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
Does it cencor some shit, or why are people leaving it? | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12172 Posts
On November 08 2024 01:35 raynpelikoneet wrote: For real? i thought people had some real reasons. I have seen many leftists in Finland also leave. It's a better place without you tbh What would be a real reason? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43268 Posts
Wombat had kinda legit reason imo | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25211 Posts
On November 08 2024 01:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: yeah well you at least have a real reason. What do you think of the higher agreement to takedown requests by various governments in the Musk era than the pre-Musk era? It’s actually quite a bit higher too. Now, I might add not all such requests are actually malicious and some may be actively sensible. But they’re certainly granting more of them. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12172 Posts
On November 08 2024 01:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't know, iam kinda asking. If you're able to say that I don't have a real reason when I give you mine, you must have a metric of what a real reason is. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4091 Posts
https://www.forbes.com/sites/katherinehamilton/2023/04/27/twitter-has-complied-with-almost-every-government-request-for-censorship-since-musk-took-over-report-finds/ He's such a free speech person, this Elon Musk. He bends for free speech so much that he twists all the back into his own arse and censors literally everyone. | ||
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Turbovolver
Australia2394 Posts
On November 07 2024 18:31 BlackJack wrote: Elon just lacks the business acumen to realize an artsy movie with Oscar potential that makes no money is better than a movie that makes a cool billion ??? I already said at the start of the thread I get it if people just like that Musk has been successful in business, I guess as an aspirational thing? I mean nobody can't argue with that. Business is bullshit, corporatism is fucked, Musk is doing well in a broken game good for him. I somehow doubt you're out here donning your gleaming armour to also fight for Bezos' good name as a business success when someone posts a YouTube video about Amazon, though. That's the part I don't get. I also get it if it's Musk's epic political Xeets, but you didn't want to come out and say you like him for his politics either, even as you assign politics as surely the reason for anyone who dares be a detractor of his. You probably still think in the back of your head that it's where I'm coming from and won't just admit it XD But nah, I'm just a person who actually got a science education, who can sort of appreciate Musk's willingness to shoot for the moon and put some money behind it but isn't about to lionise a guy who does such cringe things as buying a social media platform so he can upweight his own posts in the algorithm. How do you defend that lmao Like, you can't even envy his money because he's so obviously, deeply unsatisfied with it. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10495 Posts
On November 08 2024 10:30 Turbovolver wrote: ??? I already said at the start of the thread I get it if people just like that Musk has been successful in business, I guess as an aspirational thing? I mean nobody can't argue with that. Business is bullshit, corporatism is fucked, Musk is doing well in a broken game good for him. I somehow doubt you're out here donning your gleaming armour to also fight for Bezos' good name as a business success when someone posts a YouTube video about Amazon, though. That's the part I don't get. I also get it if it's Musk's epic political Xeets, but you didn't want to come out and say you like him for his politics either, even as you assign politics as surely the reason for anyone who dares be a detractor of his. You probably still think in the back of your head that it's where I'm coming from and won't just admit it XD But nah, I'm just a person who actually got a science education, who can sort of appreciate Musk's willingness to shoot for the moon and put some money behind it but isn't about to lionise a guy who does such cringe things as buying a social media platform so he can upweight his own posts in the algorithm. How do you defend that lmao Like, you can't even envy his money because he's so obviously, deeply unsatisfied with it. You began this thread by calling him a fraud and then you brought up Theranos as an example of another company with a high valuation built on smoke and mirrors. It’s a ridiculous way to open the thread if you’re now conceding that Musk has been incredibly successful in business. I would defend Bezo’s business acumen if it were under attack here but it’s not. Bezos isn’t a right-wing edgelord so there’s no reason for anyone to attack his business acumen. Lots of people in this thread have given the nuanced position that Musk has done very well with his companies but he’s an asshole for things he does in politics or on Twitter. I haven’t even disagreed with them. The people I’m disagreeing with are the people that watch a YouTube of a cybertruck breaking down and then make broad judgements on Tesla’s products without realizing those types of YouTubes are made just to get attraction from people like you. Top Gear did it first. My objection is that if Elon Musk was a center-left guy lefties would be praising him and the government subsidies for green tech that benefited EV sales, much like they idolized him when he was center left. Their opinion didn’t change because Teslas vehicles suddenly got worse or they decided they were fiscal conservatives who thinks the government shouldn’t throw money at EV incentives. They changed their opinion entirely because of Elon’s politics and frankly it’s obnoxious when people try to deny that. At least Magic Powers admits he is biased against Elon for his politics. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12172 Posts
Maybe they do though, it's not exactly difficult to imagine hypocritical liberals. | ||
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Turbovolver
Australia2394 Posts
On November 08 2024 11:02 BlackJack wrote: You began this thread by calling him a fraud and then you brought up Theranos as an example of another company with a high valuation built on smoke and mirrors. It’s a ridiculous way to open the thread if you’re now conceding that Musk has been incredibly successful in business. On October 25 2024 19:19 Turbovolver wrote: If you want to say he's good at swinging his dick around in business and getting places with that, I'd probably have to give it to you. I'm sure Wall Street likes that, too. Page one. In response to you. EDIT: I don't think you understood that the point of the Theranos example wasn't that Musk is exactly like Holmes, it's that the business world is far, far from a perfect judge of actual value and so pointing to Wall Street as proof of anything means little to me. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25211 Posts
On November 08 2024 11:02 BlackJack wrote: You began this thread by calling him a fraud and then you brought up Theranos as an example of another company with a high valuation built on smoke and mirrors. It’s a ridiculous way to open the thread if you’re now conceding that Musk has been incredibly successful in business. I would defend Bezo’s business acumen if it were under attack here but it’s not. Bezos isn’t a right-wing edgelord so there’s no reason for anyone to attack his business acumen. Lots of people in this thread have given the nuanced position that Musk has done very well with his companies but he’s an asshole for things he does in politics or on Twitter. I haven’t even disagreed with them. The people I’m disagreeing with are the people that watch a YouTube of a cybertruck breaking down and then make broad judgements on Tesla’s products without realizing those types of YouTubes are made just to get attraction from people like you. Top Gear did it first. My objection is that if Elon Musk was a center-left guy lefties would be praising him and the government subsidies for green tech that benefited EV sales, much like they idolized him when he was center left. Their opinion didn’t change because Teslas vehicles suddenly got worse or they decided they were fiscal conservatives who thinks the government shouldn’t throw money at EV incentives. They changed their opinion entirely because of Elon’s politics and frankly it’s obnoxious when people try to deny that. At least Magic Powers admits he is biased against Elon for his politics. This largely isn’t true for many. It’s also probably true for many as well. Even before he went on his current political turn people were saying basically the same things, it’s certainly amplified them. He could be an example of some kind of visionary who’s an exemplar of government/corporate cooperation actually pushing some industries forward. But he doesn’t present himself as that, his fanboys certainly don’t. People largely didn’t actually look into him all that much either, he was much less visible too. Hey myself and most of my cohort had a very surface level, ‘hey Tesla and especially Space X are doing some cool things, that Elon Musk guy must be pretty smart.’ Aside from just generally not liking billionaires existing on an innate level, I had no particular issue, but the more I learned the more skepticism I had versus my prior quite positive impression. For many, this occurred very much under your radar, and many moons ago. You’re only learning about it because Musk so visibly interjected himself into political spaces. Ergo you’re attributing it to being his politics. In much the same way, to a lesser degree, people would have had any kind of informed opinion or position on Donald Trump’s real estate empire if he was just that bloke off the Apprentice. Musk just wasn’t nearly as much of a popular topic of conversation outside of Space X/Tesla enthusiast circles. I’ll absolutely concede that for many it’s purely his politics and I think that’s a bit silly. But folks here have given their personal rationales, and they all differ slightly. I think a big litmus test of whether Musk is a bit of a cringe bellend or a truly gigantic cunt is what he does with this purported government position in Trump’s administration. That seems very vague right now so I’ll not make any pre-judgements, he could indeed have some positive impacts. Most people have not actually owned a Tesla, indeed I’ve never been in one. A fact somewhat incongruous with its valuation but that’s by the by. I see a bunch of articles about a Cybertruck I already thought was fucking stupid, my immediate thought isn’t that these folks with these purported defects are making it up. One hypothesis is that it’s much more so ‘the car that Elon built’, rather than one he facilitated, so hence was a bit shit compared to ones he’s more hands-off on. Plausible but I don’t know how true it is | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4091 Posts
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