Whats your view of how time travel would have to work if it is possible? I found a video on youtube some time ago that fits pretty well with my view of how those universes would have to work.
The view presented in the video of how time travel would have to work is the only one that makes sense to me. I dont like how time travel usualy works in TV-series and movies where people go back in time to save the future. Actualy my whole view of how time travel would have to work makes traveling back in time to change the universe you start out in impossible. I believe that if time travel is possible then there has to be an infinite number of universes each representing a possible history from the universes start until its end. I dont think you can change anything. You can only move back and forward in the "tree" and fold between the branches.
If you go back in time I dont believe you arrive in the universe you left in an earlier time since you never arrived at that time in that universe acording to history. Instead you arrive in a universe that is identical to the one you left up until the point where you arrive but in the universe where you arrive you arrive and its therefor not the same universe. Whatever changes you make to your universe will only affect the universe you are in now. The universe you originaly left wont be affected. I dont know if my view on timetravel is correct but its atleast the only one that makes sense to me and contains no paradoxes.
The butterfly effect is an example of a movie with time travel. My interpretation of the movie using my view of time travel is him folding between different parallel universes(branches of the same universe). The differance between the universes is some event earlier in history played out differently. He ends up moving to a universe where he is dead. This ofcourse doesnt change anything in the universes he visited before he took his life.
So in my view if time travel is possible for an expample people can arrive from the future now without later in the same universe leaving for the past and people can leave for the future or past without returning to the same universe. If anyone has a theory of how time travel would have to work to make all those "go back in time to save the future" -movies logical and still avoids the grandfather paradox then please tell me about it :p
(Sorry this OP is a bit of a mess. Just threw something togather xD I just want to get the discussion started and will explain/discuss further in the thread. Too tired to develop my points/explain further =p)
I actually think the more logical effect would be the non-parralell universe theory. If I went back in time, then im suddenly bound by fate. Whatever I do back in time, ive already done and therefore must have already happend to result in where I am today. If I go back in time and try to kill myself as a baby, im bound by fate to fail. I cant physically do it because I already know that I am alive. If it was in anyway possible to suceed, then I wouldnt be able to come back in the first place.
I dont see how that would work. Just the act of going back in time is bound to change something in the future. Your mass being where it is, the heat you radiate around you, people and animals seeing you, objects you interact with. Everything you do will change the future somehow. Only way I could imagine time travel working like that is if you upon arival automaticly enter some sort of spectate mode where you cant affect the universe in any way. And how exactly would I be prevented from killing my grandfather if im holding a gun to his head? Even if I do fail wouldnt the experience of almost being murdered change what my grandfather did in the future? etc.
If time travel is possible, then people would be visiting our time, which means the future already happened, we don't really have free will, but then they are changing the past but then that was what already happened to make time travel and everything else happen. So I have to wonder how come nobody from any point after now seems to be traveling to our time. IMO going to "parallel universes" is not really time travel, it's just travel.
Everything that you do in the past has already happened. You dont change a single thing if you go back in time, everything will end up playing out the way it already has. The effects you have on the past have already happened. You could try as much as possible to murder your grandfather in the past, but youve already tried, youve already failed before youve started. You know this because your alive. Maybe you do get a gun to your grandfathers head, he changes his life, the change that he makes to his life is most likely the reason you are alive.
To Luggy: I dont think time travel is possible. Viewing the past is possible if you could somehow direct the light on a really bloody long journey before reaching you, but physically sending matter back into time just doesnt work.
it's like some random fag rambling about penis sizes regarding dimensions.
let me sum this video up.
Child1: "Ok, I shot you kid you're dead" Child2: "No, because I have a shield that protects me from bullets that you shoot" Child1: "No, because I have a gun that destroys shields that block bullets that the gun that you thought I had use"
that continues to go on for infinity, but then there are more dimensions than infinity because of some other fucking bullshit reason that our universe has things higher than infinity or something
On November 08 2007 01:13 Fen wrote: I actually think the more logical effect would be the non-parralell universe theory. If I went back in time, then im suddenly bound by fate. Whatever I do back in time, ive already done and therefore must have already happend to result in where I am today. If I go back in time and try to kill myself as a baby, im bound by fate to fail. I cant physically do it because I already know that I am alive. If it was in anyway possible to suceed, then I wouldnt be able to come back in the first place.
And that would mean all time is predecided which I think makes any kind of time travel impossible
On November 08 2007 01:28 Fen wrote: Everything that you do in the past has already happened. You dont change a single thing if you go back in time, everything will end up playing out the way it already has. The effects you have on the past have already happened. You could try as much as possible to murder your grandfather in the past, but youve already tried, youve already failed before youve started. You know this because your alive. Maybe you do get a gun to your grandfathers head, he changes his life, the change that he makes to his life is most likely the reason you are alive.
So in your opinion the only time someone can travel to the past is if you have already arrived in the past before? You are then forced to travel to the past to fulfill your destiny of arriving in the past?
On November 08 2007 01:30 KrAzYfoOL wrote: I suggest you watch the documentary 'The First Time Machine' seeing as how intrigued you are by time travel.
On November 08 2007 01:28 lugggy wrote: If time travel is possible, then people would be visiting our time, which means the future already happened, we don't really have free will, but then they are changing the past but then that was what already happened to make time travel and everything else happen. So I have to wonder how come nobody from any point after now seems to be traveling to our time. IMO going to "parallel universes" is not really time travel, it's just travel.
who's to say that we aren't already being visited by people from the future.
why can't UFO's or something else be time travelers from the infinity+ dimension.
On November 08 2007 01:28 Fen wrote: Everything that you do in the past has already happened. You dont change a single thing if you go back in time, everything will end up playing out the way it already has. The effects you have on the past have already happened. You could try as much as possible to murder your grandfather in the past, but youve already tried, youve already failed before youve started. You know this because your alive. Maybe you do get a gun to your grandfathers head, he changes his life, the change that he makes to his life is most likely the reason you are alive.
So in your opinion the only time someone can travel to the past is if you have already arrived in the past before? You are then forced to travel to the past to fulfill your destiny of arriving in the past?
Yup, exactly. However I dont believe time travel to the past is possible. Time travel to the future is theoretically possible if you can go REALLLY fast, youd be able to arrive at your destination before the light emmitted by you leaving arrives. Therefore if you looked back, you could see yourself leaving. But then your still not really time travelling.
On November 08 2007 01:30 CrownRoyal wrote: this video is fucking retarded
it's like some random fag rambling about penis sizes regarding dimensions.
let me sum this video up.
Child1: "Ok, I shot you kid you're dead" Child2: "No, because I have a shield that protects me from bullets that you shoot" Child1: "No, because I have a gun that destroys shields that block bullets that the gun that you thought I had use"
that continues to go on for infinity, but then there are more dimensions than infinity because of some other fucking bullshit reason that our universe has things higher than infinity or something
What do you mean by this? The video clearly states we reach a dead end at the tenth dimension when infinity of time and universes has been reached.
This is an interesting topic. I was always curiously watching films / reading books that have something in connection with time traveling, 'cause this topic always puzzled me. And I like puzzles Anyway, the thing I suggest to read (a sci-fi) is Asimov's "Death of Eternity". I think the title is not 100% correct, as it is a mirror translation from the hungarian title... (A halhatatlanság halála).
On November 08 2007 01:28 Fen wrote: Everything that you do in the past has already happened. You dont change a single thing if you go back in time, everything will end up playing out the way it already has. The effects you have on the past have already happened. You could try as much as possible to murder your grandfather in the past, but youve already tried, youve already failed before youve started. You know this because your alive. Maybe you do get a gun to your grandfathers head, he changes his life, the change that he makes to his life is most likely the reason you are alive.
So in your opinion the only time someone can travel to the past is if you have already arrived in the past before? You are then forced to travel to the past to fulfill your destiny of arriving in the past?
Yup, exactly. However I dont believe time travel to the past is possible. Time travel to the future is theoretically possible if you can go REALLLY fast, youd be able to arrive at your destination before the light emmitted by you leaving arrives. Therefore if you looked back, you could see yourself leaving. But then your still not really time travelling.
Wait, I thought the fasted matter can go is at the speed of light. then it disintegrates or something :S?
On November 08 2007 01:28 lugggy wrote: If time travel is possible, then people would be visiting our time, which means the future already happened, we don't really have free will, but then they are changing the past but then that was what already happened to make time travel and everything else happen. So I have to wonder how come nobody from any point after now seems to be traveling to our time. IMO going to "parallel universes" is not really time travel, it's just travel.
who's to say that we aren't already being visited by people from the future.
why can't UFO's or something else be time travelers from the infinity+ dimension.
If they are really coming here it should be more apparent. We're talking about the entire remaining amount of time of life, a portion of it able to come here? There should be more Goobacks round here all I'm saying.
i'm sure someone has thought of this before but this is in my opinion why you cannot go forward in time or back in time by going "really fast"
To our knowledge the fastest anything can move is light, and it is the #1 speeddemon bigdaddy. knowing this I propose this.
Knowing that you must go halfway to an object to reach it you can never really reach your destination because you must always go halfway to get there and you can't go halfway and make it completely somewhere; You just keep halving forever. To make it to a destination you must actually exert effort enough to make it beyond your destination, at least a very very small bit.
knowing that there is no energy that can move faster than the speed of light, it is impossible to even attain the speed of light and thus moving "really fast" to beat the speed of light is impossible.
On November 08 2007 01:28 lugggy wrote: If time travel is possible, then people would be visiting our time, which means the future already happened, we don't really have free will, but then they are changing the past but then that was what already happened to make time travel and everything else happen. So I have to wonder how come nobody from any point after now seems to be traveling to our time. IMO going to "parallel universes" is not really time travel, it's just travel.
This is a good point. One explanation to why we dont see people coming from the future might be that you need to construct an entrance and an exit to make this possible and until we contruct an exit people are unable to travel here. We could just happend to live in a branch of the universe which happends to be unvissited from the future.
On November 08 2007 01:28 Fen wrote: Everything that you do in the past has already happened. You dont change a single thing if you go back in time, everything will end up playing out the way it already has. The effects you have on the past have already happened. You could try as much as possible to murder your grandfather in the past, but youve already tried, youve already failed before youve started. You know this because your alive. Maybe you do get a gun to your grandfathers head, he changes his life, the change that he makes to his life is most likely the reason you are alive.
So in your opinion the only time someone can travel to the past is if you have already arrived in the past before? You are then forced to travel to the past to fulfill your destiny of arriving in the past?
Yup, exactly. However I dont believe time travel to the past is possible. Time travel to the future is theoretically possible if you can go REALLLY fast, youd be able to arrive at your destination before the light emmitted by you leaving arrives. Therefore if you looked back, you could see yourself leaving. But then your still not really time travelling.
Ok then I understand your point. The question in the OP was "How do you think time travel would work if it was possible?" If time travel in the sense of going back in time is impossible then I agree with you but thats not realy what I asked for
On November 08 2007 01:46 CrownRoyal wrote: Knowing that you must go halfway to an object to reach it you can never really reach your destination because you must always go halfway to get there and you can't go halfway and make it completely somewhere; You just keep halving forever. To make it to a destination you must actually exert effort enough to make it beyond your destination, at least a very very small bit.
Isn't that a really stupid argument if you consider that you can easily walk from your chair to the door, even though you can always halve the distance between the two positions?
What I mean is the infinite series of 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 converges to 1, you don't have to go "over 1".
On November 08 2007 01:28 Fen wrote: Everything that you do in the past has already happened. You dont change a single thing if you go back in time, everything will end up playing out the way it already has. The effects you have on the past have already happened. You could try as much as possible to murder your grandfather in the past, but youve already tried, youve already failed before youve started. You know this because your alive. Maybe you do get a gun to your grandfathers head, he changes his life, the change that he makes to his life is most likely the reason you are alive.
So in your opinion the only time someone can travel to the past is if you have already arrived in the past before? You are then forced to travel to the past to fulfill your destiny of arriving in the past?
Yup, exactly. However I dont believe time travel to the past is possible. Time travel to the future is theoretically possible if you can go REALLLY fast, youd be able to arrive at your destination before the light emmitted by you leaving arrives. Therefore if you looked back, you could see yourself leaving. But then your still not really time travelling.
Wait, I thought the fasted matter can go is at the speed of light. then it disintegrates or something :S?
As matter moves at a faster rate, it becomes heavier. Acording to Einstein, the speed of light is the fastest possible speed. As you reach the speed of light you get heavier and heavier, at the speed of light itself, you are infinitely heavy. Reaching this speed also would require an infinite amount of energy. However if you did manage to reach the speed of light and did become of infinite mass, you would create a gravity well of infinite proportions, effectively sucking the entire universe into yourself, and quite possibly creating another big bang.
I say i went back in time yesterday. I went back 1 hour. Then I relived that hour. But I did everything exactly the same. Right now i'm moving forward in time.
On November 08 2007 01:28 Fen wrote: Everything that you do in the past has already happened. You dont change a single thing if you go back in time, everything will end up playing out the way it already has. The effects you have on the past have already happened. You could try as much as possible to murder your grandfather in the past, but youve already tried, youve already failed before youve started. You know this because your alive. Maybe you do get a gun to your grandfathers head, he changes his life, the change that he makes to his life is most likely the reason you are alive.
So in your opinion the only time someone can travel to the past is if you have already arrived in the past before? You are then forced to travel to the past to fulfill your destiny of arriving in the past?
Yup, exactly. However I dont believe time travel to the past is possible. Time travel to the future is theoretically possible if you can go REALLLY fast, youd be able to arrive at your destination before the light emmitted by you leaving arrives. Therefore if you looked back, you could see yourself leaving. But then your still not really time travelling.
Wait, I thought the fasted matter can go is at the speed of light. then it disintegrates or something :S?
As matter moves at a faster rate, it becomes heavier. Acording to Einstein, the speed of light is the fastest possible speed. As you reach the speed of light you get heavier and heavier, at the speed of light itself, you are infinitely heavy. Reaching this speed also would require an infinite amount of energy. However if you did manage to reach the speed of light and did become of infinite mass, you would create a gravity well of infinite proportions, effectively sucking the entire universe into yourself, and quite possibly creating another big bang.
On November 08 2007 01:28 lugggy wrote: If time travel is possible, then people would be visiting our time, which means the future already happened, we don't really have free will, but then they are changing the past but then that was what already happened to make time travel and everything else happen. So I have to wonder how come nobody from any point after now seems to be traveling to our time. IMO going to "parallel universes" is not really time travel, it's just travel.
This is a good point. One explanation to why we dont see people coming from the future might be that you need to construct an entrance and an exit to make this possible and until we contruct an exit people are unable to travel here. We could just happend to live in a branch of the universe which happends to be unvissited from the future.
On November 08 2007 01:28 Fen wrote: Everything that you do in the past has already happened. You dont change a single thing if you go back in time, everything will end up playing out the way it already has. The effects you have on the past have already happened. You could try as much as possible to murder your grandfather in the past, but youve already tried, youve already failed before youve started. You know this because your alive. Maybe you do get a gun to your grandfathers head, he changes his life, the change that he makes to his life is most likely the reason you are alive.
So in your opinion the only time someone can travel to the past is if you have already arrived in the past before? You are then forced to travel to the past to fulfill your destiny of arriving in the past?
Yup, exactly. However I dont believe time travel to the past is possible. Time travel to the future is theoretically possible if you can go REALLLY fast, youd be able to arrive at your destination before the light emmitted by you leaving arrives. Therefore if you looked back, you could see yourself leaving. But then your still not really time travelling.
Ok then I understand your point. The question in the OP was "How do you think time travel would work if it was possible?" If time travel in the sense of going back in time is impossible then I agree with you but thats not realy what I asked for
Well this discussion is theoretical (unless your not telling us something). I dont believe that time travel is possible due to the physical limitations of moving matter backwards in time. If this boundary could be overcome, then theoretically time travel could be very possible.
I think that time travel into the past would prove that fate exists. When you are not in your natural time frame, you are fated to do certain things. This is already proved due to the fact that you existed in your original natural time frame.
On November 08 2007 01:28 Fen wrote: Everything that you do in the past has already happened. You dont change a single thing if you go back in time, everything will end up playing out the way it already has. The effects you have on the past have already happened. You could try as much as possible to murder your grandfather in the past, but youve already tried, youve already failed before youve started. You know this because your alive. Maybe you do get a gun to your grandfathers head, he changes his life, the change that he makes to his life is most likely the reason you are alive.
So in your opinion the only time someone can travel to the past is if you have already arrived in the past before? You are then forced to travel to the past to fulfill your destiny of arriving in the past?
Yup, exactly. However I dont believe time travel to the past is possible. Time travel to the future is theoretically possible if you can go REALLLY fast, youd be able to arrive at your destination before the light emmitted by you leaving arrives. Therefore if you looked back, you could see yourself leaving. But then your still not really time travelling.
Wait, I thought the fasted matter can go is at the speed of light. then it disintegrates or something :S?
As matter moves at a faster rate, it becomes heavier. Acording to Einstein, the speed of light is the fastest possible speed. As you reach the speed of light you get heavier and heavier, at the speed of light itself, you are infinitely heavy. Reaching this speed also would require an infinite amount of energy. However if you did manage to reach the speed of light and did become of infinite mass, you would create a gravity well of infinite proportions, effectively sucking the entire universe into yourself, and quite possibly creating another big bang.
source? or are you just making stuff up?
E=Mc2
Energy = Mass x speed of light squared. Einstein states that the speed of light is a constant. By rearranging that, you get what Ive pointed out in my statement.
The whole gravity well thing comes from the fact that objects with large masses create gravitational pull. If your mass is infinity, then you have infinity gravitational pull.
On November 08 2007 01:46 CrownRoyal wrote: i'm sure someone has thought of this before but this is in my opinion why you cannot go forward in time or back in time by going "really fast"
To our knowledge the fastest anything can move is light, and it is the #1 speeddemon bigdaddy. knowing this I propose this.
Knowing that you must go halfway to an object to reach it you can never really reach your destination because you must always go halfway to get there and you can't go halfway and make it completely somewhere; You just keep halving forever. To make it to a destination you must actually exert effort enough to make it beyond your destination, at least a very very small bit.
knowing that there is no energy that can move faster than the speed of light, it is impossible to even attain the speed of light and thus moving "really fast" to beat the speed of light is impossible.
On November 08 2007 01:46 CrownRoyal wrote: Knowing that you must go halfway to an object to reach it you can never really reach your destination because you must always go halfway to get there and you can't go halfway and make it completely somewhere; You just keep halving forever. To make it to a destination you must actually exert effort enough to make it beyond your destination, at least a very very small bit.
Isn't that a really stupid argument if you consider that you can easily walk from your chair to the door, even though you can always halve the distance between the two positions?
What I mean is the infinite series of 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 converges to 1, you don't have to go "over 1".
But youd never reach 1 if you keep halving the distance.
On November 08 2007 01:46 CrownRoyal wrote: Knowing that you must go halfway to an object to reach it you can never really reach your destination because you must always go halfway to get there and you can't go halfway and make it completely somewhere; You just keep halving forever. To make it to a destination you must actually exert effort enough to make it beyond your destination, at least a very very small bit.
Isn't that a really stupid argument if you consider that you can easily walk from your chair to the door, even though you can always halve the distance between the two positions?
What I mean is the infinite series of 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 converges to 1, you don't have to go "over 1".
ok, on your way from your chair to the door do you walk halfway there?
half way there, do you walk half way more to the door?
On November 08 2007 01:34 CrownRoyal wrote: and all things being predecided most certainly does not make time travel impossible?
Let me put it this way, I believe that for time travel to be possible at all, all time must be predecided, which means free will doesn't exist. It would also mean that everything in the past and future allready happend. I believe in free will, therefore I also believe any kind of time travel impossible.
On November 08 2007 01:28 lugggy wrote: If time travel is possible, then people would be visiting our time, which means the future already happened, we don't really have free will, but then they are changing the past but then that was what already happened to make time travel and everything else happen. So I have to wonder how come nobody from any point after now seems to be traveling to our time. IMO going to "parallel universes" is not really time travel, it's just travel.
This is a good point. One explanation to why we dont see people coming from the future might be that you need to construct an entrance and an exit to make this possible and until we contruct an exit people are unable to travel here. We could just happend to live in a branch of the universe which happends to be unvissited from the future.
On November 08 2007 01:37 Fen wrote:
On November 08 2007 01:32 DrainX wrote:
On November 08 2007 01:28 Fen wrote: Everything that you do in the past has already happened. You dont change a single thing if you go back in time, everything will end up playing out the way it already has. The effects you have on the past have already happened. You could try as much as possible to murder your grandfather in the past, but youve already tried, youve already failed before youve started. You know this because your alive. Maybe you do get a gun to your grandfathers head, he changes his life, the change that he makes to his life is most likely the reason you are alive.
So in your opinion the only time someone can travel to the past is if you have already arrived in the past before? You are then forced to travel to the past to fulfill your destiny of arriving in the past?
Yup, exactly. However I dont believe time travel to the past is possible. Time travel to the future is theoretically possible if you can go REALLLY fast, youd be able to arrive at your destination before the light emmitted by you leaving arrives. Therefore if you looked back, you could see yourself leaving. But then your still not really time travelling.
Ok then I understand your point. The question in the OP was "How do you think time travel would work if it was possible?" If time travel in the sense of going back in time is impossible then I agree with you but thats not realy what I asked for
Well this discussion is theoretical (unless your not telling us something). I dont believe that time travel is possible due to the physical limitations of moving matter backwards in time. If this boundary could be overcome, then theoretically time travel could be very possible.
I think that time travel into the past would prove that fate exists. When you are not in your natural time frame, you are fated to do certain things. This is already proved due to the fact that you existed in your original natural time frame.
What if time travel to the past was possible. Whats wrong with the parallel universes/alternate timelines view in your oppinion? Just the strangeness of the concept? I think it has all the traits of your view but also in addition to that it solves the problem with free will. If you believe in free will that is.
On November 08 2007 01:34 CrownRoyal wrote: and all things being predecided most certainly does not make time travel impossible?
Let me put it this way, I believe that for time travel to be possible at all, all time must be predecided, which means free will doesn't exist. It would also mean that everything in the past and future allready happend. I believe in free will, therefore I also believe any kind of time travel impossible.
With parallel universes/alternate timelines you can have free will Where free will would be represented by the route you travel along the "tree" of possible futures.
On November 08 2007 01:34 CrownRoyal wrote: and all things being predecided most certainly does not make time travel impossible?
Let me put it this way, I believe that for time travel to be possible at all, all time must be predecided, which means free will doesn't exist. It would also mean that everything in the past and future allready happend. I believe in free will, therefore I also believe any kind of time travel impossible.
It's an entirely different subject but I find free will to be completely false.
On November 08 2007 01:46 CrownRoyal wrote: i'm sure someone has thought of this before but this is in my opinion why you cannot go forward in time or back in time by going "really fast"
To our knowledge the fastest anything can move is light, and it is the #1 speeddemon bigdaddy. knowing this I propose this.
Knowing that you must go halfway to an object to reach it you can never really reach your destination because you must always go halfway to get there and you can't go halfway and make it completely somewhere; You just keep halving forever. To make it to a destination you must actually exert effort enough to make it beyond your destination, at least a very very small bit.
knowing that there is no energy that can move faster than the speed of light, it is impossible to even attain the speed of light and thus moving "really fast" to beat the speed of light is impossible.
The basis for your logic there is flawed, but nonetheless following it: If you were trying to attain the speed that was an increment before light, so you travel at the speed of light to reach it, attaining the speed of light.
On November 08 2007 01:34 CrownRoyal wrote: and all things being predecided most certainly does not make time travel impossible?
Let me put it this way, I believe that for time travel to be possible at all, all time must be predecided, which means free will doesn't exist. It would also mean that everything in the past and future allready happend. I believe in free will, therefore I also believe any kind of time travel impossible.
It's an entirely different subject but I find free will to be completely false.
everything has an equation.
Can you give me an equation that will predict at which time intervals I will post (i.e. predict each one for all past posts and all future posts down to the second?).
On January 22 2007 21:27 CrownRoyal wrote: I have written several things trying to decipher on my own some of the unanswerable questions in life, such as things about god and in general just all of the difficult questions in the world. I don't necessarily agree with any of them, they are just theories that I formed.
Here is one of them, it's the latest one I thought of and most of the ideas aren't completely thought out or even right, but I think it's an interesting idea.
X = Life "Theory"
In mathematics one encounters several things. One of these things being equations. Equations can be made for literally ANYTHING. These equations enable us to have a completely accurate prediction of, as I said earlier, literally anything.
Knowing this, that anything can be predicted via mathematics, I am hypothesizing that human life also must have an equation where one can predict what anyone will do in any given situation, thus human life has no free will and fate is very much so real, to the point that we are all merely points on the graph of an XY chart. The end of the world can be predicted, the creation of our world can be found, we can understand nearly all of the questions that life has left us unanswered without ever leaving our rooms, we can travel through time, we can essentially understand everything by finding an equation for every single living person to figure out what they would do in any situation presented in front of them.
I believe this hypothesis is valid for the reason that I have no reason to believe human beings are special, if I can predict how a ball will roll across the ground, I should be able to predict how someone will react if I punch them in the face, though, the equation is going to be very complex there is most definitely one to achieve the answer that I am looking for.
To say that I am looking for an equation where I will know how Johnny Walker will react to being hit in the face is completely wrong, however, I am moreso looking at the idea of an equation that would set the path of your life, from your first action to your last. I’m not sure at this point how the equation would have to work to accomplish this, I would hypothesize that the answer to how you reacted would be iterated back into the formula somehow, but the exact details are unimportant to me. In this hypothesis I am forced to assume it is possible to create this complex equation merely because I see no reason not to believe it, if I can predict other things it is my belief then I can predict human behaviors.
If I could somehow possess this wonderful tool, I could work the equations backwards or forwards through every generation(time travel). I would essentially possess the ability to know when anything would happen. What a scary idea...
In conclusion: My hypothesis is that it is possible to create an equation that will lay out the path of any man's life and if this is possible, free will is nonexistent and life isn't quite as magical as one might expect.
On November 08 2007 01:46 CrownRoyal wrote: Knowing that you must go halfway to an object to reach it you can never really reach your destination because you must always go halfway to get there and you can't go halfway and make it completely somewhere; You just keep halving forever. To make it to a destination you must actually exert effort enough to make it beyond your destination, at least a very very small bit.
Isn't that a really stupid argument if you consider that you can easily walk from your chair to the door, even though you can always halve the distance between the two positions?
What I mean is the infinite series of 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 converges to 1, you don't have to go "over 1".
But youd never reach 1 if you keep halving the distance.
You would if you did it an infinite number of times. Whether that's possible is an entirely different topic.
On November 08 2007 02:23 CrownRoyal wrote: using my initial argument travel is impossible completely.
i know you can debunk that idea (it's some old philosopher's idea) but I don't remember how
Isn't this the same thing as "Hercules and the tortoise"?
Hercules travels at 10 mps, the tortoise travels at 1 mps. The tortoise starts 10 meters ahead of hercules and they travel in the same dirrection.
After 1 second the tortoise is only 1 meter ahead. (hercules has allready coverd the tortoises initial head start, but the tortoise has moved another 1 meter)
In the next .1 of a second the tortoise has moved .1 of a meter and is still .1 of meter ahead because hercules has coverd 1 meter.
After another .01 of a second, the tortoise is only .01 of a meter ahead.
We keep adding on aditional bits of time, dividing by 10 each time. If we do this ad infinitum hercules can never catch the tortoise because the ammount of ground he covers can only equal the head start the tortoise. Therefore, even with an infinite ammount of time hercules can never catch the tortoise.
In conclusion: My hypothesis is that it is possible to create an equation that will lay out the path of any man's life and if this is possible, free will is nonexistent and life isn't quite as magical as one might expect.
The human brain is a quantum computer. It is impossible to exactly predict quantum happenings. It is that base unpredictability that gives humans free will. If it's impossible to predict where a simple electron will be, what makes you think you can graph an entire human being?
The Fourth Dimension of Time is a stable construct, though it is not impenetrable. Incidents when the fabric of the fourth dimension becomes corrupted are incredibly rare. If a Tangent Universe occurs, it will be highly unstable, sustaining itself for no longer than several weeks. Eventually it will collapse upon itself, forming a black hole within the Primary Universe capable of destroying all existence.
Water and Metal are the key elements of Time Travel..Water is the barrier element for the construction of Time Portals used as gateways between Universes at the Tangent Vortex. Metal is the (transitional) element for the construction of Artifact Vessels.
When a Tangent Universe occurs, those living nearest to the Vortex will find themselves at the epicenter of a dangerous new world. Artifacts provide the first sign that a Tangent Universe has occurred. If an Artifact occurs, the Living will retrieve it with great interest and curiosity. Artifacts returned to the Primary Universe are often linked to religious iconography; as their appearance on Earth seems to defy logical explanation. Divine Intervention is deemed the only logical con-. clusion for the appearance of the Artifact.
The Living Receiver is chosen to guide the Artifact into position for it's journey back to the Primary Universe. No one knows how or why a Receiver will be chosen. The Living Receiver is often “blessed” with a Fourth Dimensional Power(s). These include increased strength, telekinesis, mind control, and the ability to conjure fire and water. The Living Receiver is often tormented by terrifying dreams, visions and auditory hallucinations during his time within the Tangent Universe. Those surrounding the Living Receiver, known as the Manipulated, will fear him and try to destroy him.
The Manipulated Living are often the close friends and neighbors of the Living Receiver. They are prone to irrational, bizarre, and often violent behavior. This is the unfortunate result of their task, which is to assist the Living Receiver in returning the Artifact to the Primary Universe..The Manipulated Living will do anything to save themselves from Oblivion
In conclusion: My hypothesis is that it is possible to create an equation that will lay out the path of any man's life and if this is possible, free will is nonexistent and life isn't quite as magical as one might expect.
The human brain is a quantum computer. It is impossible to exactly predict quantum happenings. It is that base unpredictability that gives humans free will. If it's impossible to predict where a simple electron will be, what makes you think you can graph an entire human being?
I most certainly cannot, it is entirely a hypothesis in which i assumed that it was possible for the basis of my idea.
On January 22 2007 21:27 CrownRoyal wrote: In mathematics one encounters several things. One of these things being equations. Equations can be made for literally ANYTHING. These equations enable us to have a completely accurate prediction of, as I said earlier, literally anything.
This and your conclusion really shows you don't know enough about maths, look up Chaos Theory why don't you?
Oh and you'll probably need a heavy dose of quantum mechanics too before you can make any sensible hypothesis on this topic at all.
On January 22 2007 21:27 CrownRoyal wrote: I have written several things trying to decipher on my own some of the unanswerable questions in life, such as things about god and in general just all of the difficult questions in the world. I don't necessarily agree with any of them, they are just theories that I formed.
Here is one of them, it's the latest one I thought of and most of the ideas aren't completely thought out or even right, but I think it's an interesting idea.
On November 08 2007 02:59 Rekrul wrote: it is my belief that for time travel to exist (backwards in time) that everything in this world and life must be pre-determined and fated by a god
I see what you're doing.. Turning this into a religious debate because your banscythe has gotten rusty.
On January 22 2007 21:27 CrownRoyal wrote: I have written several things trying to decipher on my own some of the unanswerable questions in life, such as things about god and in general just all of the difficult questions in the world. I don't necessarily agree with any of them, they are just theories that I formed.
Here is one of them, it's the latest one I thought of and most of the ideas aren't completely thought out or even right, but I think it's an interesting idea.
Yeah, I read that, but what I was trying to say is that what may seem interesting and possibly viable to you is simply due to your lack of knowledge. There's very little truth in your post and even less that could make for interesting discussion, it's just mostly wrong.
On November 08 2007 02:59 Rekrul wrote: it is my belief that for time travel to exist (backwards in time) that everything in this world and life must be pre-determined and fated by a god
I think it is a mistake to use the word "predetermined". That implies planning, wheras what the situation actualy suggests is that the world is mechanistic. That is to say that, given the same inputs and the same processing, the results will allways be the same.
I don't pretend to understand quantum theory, but if I am not much mistaken, quantum theory implies genuine randomness in some physical processes, making the above incorrect. By genuine randomness I mean that even with all the data at our fingertips, we can only predict probabities rather than outcomes.
I don't think that's what you're describing, and if it is, that makes your post even more worthless O_o?
From wikipedia: "It is a popular misconception that determinism necessarily entails that humanity or individual humans have no influence on the future and its events (a position known as Fatalism)"
@ Fen. Fate is a poor fixit model. Going forward in time can be done. As you approach the speed of light time of the moving object goes slower. Stasis is forward time travel. It has less usefull purpose if you can't go back to use information you gained in the future. The multiverse model is a mess but it the only model that could work. But what are the odds of being in timeline where the timetravellers are not noticed, or not visited at all. Most likely explanation: there is no backwards timetravel.
Okay sorry you got me there, I didn't really read that since I don't know much about determinism, but that's not actually my main point.
I'm talking about this: "My hypothesis is that it is possible to create an equation that will lay out the path of any man's life and if this is possible, free will is nonexistent and life isn't quite as magical as one might expect."
That statement is only loosely determinism. Just because you have a mathematical equation doesn't mean you can perfectly predict everything (look up: chaos theory, quantum mechanics)
So basically, determinism is a valid philosophical theory; but your idea only draws the same conclusion (even if in a flawed way), it doesn't have the same rigorous basis. If I end with a 0=0 proof it doesn't mean all the steps before were valid.
Im no physicist, I'm just thinking about this as a lay person. It seems to me time travel would be absolutely impossible, since you don't actually travel through time. What people mean by "time travel" is that they are changing the environment around them so that it is the way it once was. In other words, to travel back to 2 weeks ago, you would have to move every atom in the universe into the same position it was in before, and move energy back into the form it was in before. I don't think it's possible at all.
On November 08 2007 03:25 CrownRoyal wrote: look dude, if there is no free will then your fate is decided by something and it most certainly has to be an equation does it not?
Uh, first of all your theory works the other way round: you're saying there is an equation therefore we have no free will.
Secondly, just because you have an equation doesn't mean you can find suitable solutions.
whatever, i dont even care, i'm not going to defend something i wrote that genuinely was not meant to be scientific in any way or fashion. I'm just making myself look like an idiot.
There is no such thing as time. It's a construct and a measurement for the rate at wchich stuff change and shit happens.
To go back in time you have to reconstruct the universe according to the state it was at that time. But this probably takes more energy than the universe holds.. Entropy etc yadda yadda.
On November 08 2007 03:33 CrownRoyal wrote: dude its a fucking idea
whatever, i dont even care, i'm not going to defend something i wrote that genuinely was not meant to be scientific in any way or fashion. I'm just making myself look like an idiot.
Calling something an idea or opinion doesn't automatically immunise it from scrutiny, if anything it should be considered more carefully. If you can have your say, I can have mine. At the end of the day, it's always best if you learnt something, even if it's "damn, I need to learn more".
Ok, I've only very quickly looked through the replys, so I'll not enter the discussion, just wanted to say this:
This was posted about a year ago. Link It seemed though as if the discussion then was a bit different, more about string theory and less time travel and determinism. So if you dont think the discussion here is enough, you can go there for more read on the video.
There you can also find the series "an elegant universe" which is a really nice introduction to strings and physics in higher dimensions.
I'm aware of that but you didnt scrutinize my idea, you called me a moron because i didn't know some mathematical theory.
I dont care about math, I dont care if there is some math that doesn't make sense or whatever else. You weren't criticizing anything except my intellect which i never claimed to be of a high stature in.
dont even try to come off like you're some inspirating motivational individual.
One of my friends who knows a lot of math told me once that mathmatically you can prove its possible but in reality its impossible because of something about you would need the entire mass of the universe to do it or something I think it has to do with traveling faster then the speed of light? I dunno someone have any idea at what im rambling about?
Looks like most people here are arguing that time travel must lead to predetermined universe. Id be happy if anyone of you gave an argument against the Parallel universes/alternate timelines view. Atleast those of you who believe in free will. Why are you giving up on free will so quickly? Whats so wrong with alternate timelines?
to CrownRoyal Here is what I dont like about your argument: Say that the world was predetermined. Say that if you knew the exact state of the universe at one point you could predict the future until the end. If someone did predict the future couldnt he then choose not to follow that predicted future? If he tries to kill himself when the prediction says he goes shopping the next day what would stop him? Some divine force? I just dont think it makes sense.
Another proposed solution to some of the paradoxes is to consider that space and time are not infinitely divisible. Just because our number system enables us to give a number between any two numbers, it does not necessarily follow that there is a point in space between any two different points in space, and the same goes for time.
If space-time is not infinitely divisible (and thus not perfectly continuous), it is "discrete" (composed of “lumps” and “jumps”). This means that motion is, at the smallest physical level, may be a series of jumps from one quantum space-time coordinate to the next, each occurring over distance and time intervals that are not divisible into smaller measures.[2]
Thus the total number of quantum jumps made while traversing from point A to point B would be finite, and there is no paradox.
Btw the 0.999...=1 can be simply proved: 1/3=0.333... 1/3x3=0.999... But we know that 1/3x3=1, so 0.999...=1
On November 08 2007 02:52 NewbSaibot wrote: The Fourth Dimension of Time is a stable construct, though it is not impenetrable. Incidents when the fabric of the fourth dimension becomes corrupted are incredibly rare. If a Tangent Universe occurs, it will be highly unstable, sustaining itself for no longer than several weeks. Eventually it will collapse upon itself, forming a black hole within the Primary Universe capable of destroying all existence.
Water and Metal are the key elements of Time Travel..Water is the barrier element for the construction of Time Portals used as gateways between Universes at the Tangent Vortex. Metal is the (transitional) element for the construction of Artifact Vessels.
When a Tangent Universe occurs, those living nearest to the Vortex will find themselves at the epicenter of a dangerous new world. Artifacts provide the first sign that a Tangent Universe has occurred. If an Artifact occurs, the Living will retrieve it with great interest and curiosity. Artifacts returned to the Primary Universe are often linked to religious iconography; as their appearance on Earth seems to defy logical explanation. Divine Intervention is deemed the only logical con-. clusion for the appearance of the Artifact.
The Living Receiver is chosen to guide the Artifact into position for it's journey back to the Primary Universe. No one knows how or why a Receiver will be chosen. The Living Receiver is often “blessed” with a Fourth Dimensional Power(s). These include increased strength, telekinesis, mind control, and the ability to conjure fire and water. The Living Receiver is often tormented by terrifying dreams, visions and auditory hallucinations during his time within the Tangent Universe. Those surrounding the Living Receiver, known as the Manipulated, will fear him and try to destroy him.
The Manipulated Living are often the close friends and neighbors of the Living Receiver. They are prone to irrational, bizarre, and often violent behavior. This is the unfortunate result of their task, which is to assist the Living Receiver in returning the Artifact to the Primary Universe..The Manipulated Living will do anything to save themselves from Oblivion
I will explain more later.
Haha I had to watch the movie in preparation for an english exam, and I had no clue what was going on.
Another proposed solution to some of the paradoxes is to consider that space and time are not infinitely divisible. Just because our number system enables us to give a number between any two numbers, it does not necessarily follow that there is a point in space between any two different points in space, and the same goes for time.
If space-time is not infinitely divisible (and thus not perfectly continuous), it is "discrete" (composed of “lumps” and “jumps”). This means that motion is, at the smallest physical level, may be a series of jumps from one quantum space-time coordinate to the next, each occurring over distance and time intervals that are not divisible into smaller measures.[2]
Thus the total number of quantum jumps made while traversing from point A to point B would be finite, and there is no paradox.
Btw the 0.999...=1 can be simply proved: 1/3=0.333... 1/3x3=0.999... But we know that 1/3x3=1, so 0.999...=1
the thing that I don't like about this argument is that this is a completely different situation, you aren't dealing with 1/3's and your answer with this problem will never be a clean .999...
On November 08 2007 04:18 DrainX wrote: (...) to CrownRoyal Here is what I dont like about your argument: Say that the world was predetermined. Say that if you knew the exact state of the universe at one point you could predict the future until the end. If someone did predict the future couldnt he then choose not to follow that predicted future? If he tries to kill himself when the prediction says he goes shopping the next day what would stop him? Some divine force? I just dont think it makes sense.
The problem with your counter-argument is that you can never predict the future exactly. To be able to do that you need to have information about everything which causes a sort of infinate loop.
Another proposed solution to some of the paradoxes is to consider that space and time are not infinitely divisible. Just because our number system enables us to give a number between any two numbers, it does not necessarily follow that there is a point in space between any two different points in space, and the same goes for time.
If space-time is not infinitely divisible (and thus not perfectly continuous), it is "discrete" (composed of “lumps” and “jumps”). This means that motion is, at the smallest physical level, may be a series of jumps from one quantum space-time coordinate to the next, each occurring over distance and time intervals that are not divisible into smaller measures.[2]
Thus the total number of quantum jumps made while traversing from point A to point B would be finite, and there is no paradox.
Btw the 0.999...=1 can be simply proved: 1/3=0.333... 1/3x3=0.999... But we know that 1/3x3=1, so 0.999...=1
the thing that I don't like about this argument is that this is a completely different situation, you aren't dealing with 1/3's and your answer with this problem will never be a clean .999...
1/2^infinity =\\= .999 ever, unless you round it.
haha I'd have to agree:D 1/2^infinity=0 =/=0.999.....=1
although I obviously can't understand it nor does it make sense the best I can explain my idea is that the universe started as an equation in its self.
some variable sparked a change in the equation and it came to life evolving with every living second.
No computer could ever compute that kind of information though and it's more or less some weak attempt to prove that the christian god does not exist, or if he does exist than he is the biggest bastard of all time and isn't worthy of anything that he gets anyway.
But seriously, the 0.999...=1 discussion is really not interesting. 0.999... is 1, but it's really a silly notation for 1. You never write out a number in decimals and end with ..., just as you don't write 1/2^infinity. Using infinity as a number, or the value of a valuable makes no sense. You would have to use the limit's notation and instead write something like
[QUOTE]On November 08 2007 04:22 skyglow1 wrote: [QUOTE]On November 08 2007 03:55 mahnini wrote: [QUOTE]On November 08 2007 02:39 Never Post wrote: This sounds remarkably similar to the "does .999... = 1" thing.
People would benefit so much from learning just a bit more maths.[/QUOTE] I know I'm late but...
You can't ever reach something if your destination is half the length of the required distance, it makes no sense.
It's more like divide number by two infinitely and expecting it to reach zero.[/QUOTE]
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeno's_paradoxes#Proposed_solution_using_mathematical_series_notation]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeno's_paradoxes#Proposed_solution_using_mathematical_series_notation[/url] I don't get this. Suppose we take the element of time out, what happens then? Now I'm genuinely curious.
Wikipedia wrote: [edit] Are space and time infinitely divisible? Main article: Planck length Another proposed solution to some of the paradoxes is to consider that space and time are not infinitely divisible. Just because our number system enables us to give a number between any two numbers, it does not necessarily follow that there is a point in space between any two different points in space, and the same goes for time.
If space-time is not infinitely divisible (and thus not perfectly continuous), it is "discrete" (composed of “lumps” and “jumps”). This means that motion is, at the smallest physical level, may be a series of jumps from one quantum space-time coordinate to the next, each occurring over distance and time intervals that are not divisible into smaller measures.[2]
Thus the total number of quantum jumps made while traversing from point A to point B would be finite, and there is no paradox.
wouldn't these lumps just turn into the smallest of numbers in our number system and the whole process is back to normal?
On November 08 2007 05:10 CrownRoyal wrote: I guess our number system is infinite though so that doesn't really make any sense.
now wait. If you are talking about Zeno's paradox you don't really need advanced theories like indivisibility of space and time to show Zeno was wrong. You just have to know a few thing about limits. Zeno's original argument in short is like:
(1)-assume you want to move 1 mile (2)-you run half, then half of the rest and so on. distance to move= 1/2+1/4+.... (3)-but you can't move an infinite amount of distances in a finite amount of time (4)-therefore you can never reach the end (5)-therefore all movement are an illusion
here (3) is false. You can move an infinite amount of length-intervals in a finite amout of time: if the length-intervals gets infinatly short. Example: you divide 1 meter into n intervals, each interval get's length 1/n meters. Move at 1m/s. Time it takes to move 1 interval: 1/n seconds. Time to move through all intervals: n*(1/n) seconds=1second. If you let n->infinity you still get the same result. An infinite amount of intervals, each being infinitly small, but you get through them all in 1 second.
Yes I believe this notion of time travel requires a discussion of Predestination and theology as well.
Imagine we can travel back in time, to the time of Jesus. You are going from your universe to another universe in which you existed 2000 years ago. So, dissapearing from your universe and appearing in another in which you do exist means that God would have to change the outcome of reality when you open a wormhole through space-time. This means that whatever you do God is watching and has predetermined your fate.
As NewbSaibot said, there have been artifacts found in Jerusalem, artifacts which seem too futuristic to be from that time, perhaps proof of time travel by space aliens? who knows.. the fact is the New World Order is hiding these artifacts in maximum security bunkers, there is current research by top scientist and astrologers to decipher the code of the artifacts, I heard from reliable sources that the code contains some sort of alien language. Whatever it may be, the vortex between our universe and theirs is coming to a tangent yet unknown by currents physics.
On November 08 2007 05:42 jtan wrote: I find calvinism to be bullshit, I'm for determinism, but having a god in that theory is just superfluous.
This is the kind of mind control I been warned about, Calvinism is the new liberation program by once thought disappeared civilization of Atlantis. Bear in mind that this is highly classified information. Bush is linked to the British Royal family. The british have recently inplanted tracking chips on high school students to control their minds and create an army of zombies. Don't you see the pattern here? Bush is attempting to hold off the alien invasion and the second coming of Jesus Christ by blocking the prayers of children. It is all part of the New World Order.
Ok, im finished here. If I dont reply in 2 hours that means I been taken for hostage by the Bush Administration in one of their secret prisons in Albania.
On November 08 2007 05:42 jtan wrote: I find calvinism to be bullshit, I'm for determinism, but having a god in that theory is just superfluous.
This is the kind of mind control I been warned about, Calvinism is the new liberation program by once thought disappeared civilization of Atlantis. Bear in mind that this is highly classified information. Bush is linked to the British Royal family. The british have recently inplanted tracking chips on high school students to control their minds and create an army of zombies. Don't you see the pattern here? Bush is attempting to hold off the alien invasion and the second coming of Jesus Christ by blocking the prayers of children. It is all part of the New World Order.
Ok, im finished here. If I dont reply in 2 hours that means I been taken for hostage by the Bush Administration in one of their secret prisons in Albania.
this is probably the greatest post in the history of posts.
The only theories i know of time travel(that i've read about) aren't really what people would consider time travel. One of them deals with traveling at the speed of light(which can't be done anyway) that if you reach that point of speed time will go faster around you, or something like that, i read it awhile ago. another theory is black holes, if you're stuck in the event horizon time elsewhere will again go faster, but, that again is impossible. the last one is probably the closest to actual going back in time, but only to a certain point. i don't remeber exactly how to explain it but you'd have to build a device and you can only travel back in time to when it's first turned on. so say it's turnd on and 100 years later it's still on you could go through it, but only back when it was first turned on.
those are the only theories i've read of, but time travel in general doesn't make sense. if you DO go back in time, then everything you do you've already done, like the example of say killing yourself when you're younger... it won't happen, otherwise you wouldn't exist. i'm not really all that interested in time travel, it's all theory and can't be in any way proven and is constantly disproven by science and logic. that's just my opinion on it ;x
traveling at or faster than the speed of light serves only to create an optical illusion for the traveler. So what if you move faster than a bunch of photons and therefore cannot see a change in motion, that is only a visual ocular perception, it has nothing to do with time. Time still passes as photons travel across the galaxy giving us glimpses of stars billions of years old does it not? When scientists observe a super nova that occured a million years ago does that mean no time passed during the flight of those photons which gave us a view of the super nova? Of course not.
As for black holes, that is merely a colorful choice of wording. It is not a hole, it is a star who's gravity is so powerful that light itself cannot escape. It is a physical presence, not the absence of one. If there were another method to observe a black hole through some other type of perception, you would see it just as any other physical piece of matter, a round ball sucking in everything that comes near it. Jumping into one would only kill you, not send you back or forward in time.
I don't understand, that video claims the 4th dimension is the entire timeline together, but from my understanding of quantum mechanics nothing is definite. The clockwork theory is wrong, and things are decided by chance.
How do these ideas work together? Does the universe branch into different possibilities the moment that the quantum decay triggers the bomb that detroys london? Ohhh I think i understand. 4th dimension is that one timeline, where everything is predermined. BUT 5th dimension is the branching of those paths so there is only 1 percieved.
sorry if i explained my thoughts bad, i don't understand a lot of what i read very well. does anyone have any advice for learning more about physics?
On November 08 2007 06:36 NewbSaibot wrote: traveling at or faster than the speed of light serves only to create an optical illusion for the traveler. So what if you move faster than a bunch of photons and therefore cannot see a change in motion, that is only a visual ocular perception, it has nothing to do with time. Time still passes as photons travel across the galaxy giving us glimpses of stars billions of years old does it not? When scientists observe a super nova that occured a million years ago does that mean no time passed during the flight of those photons which gave us a view of the super nova? Of course not.
As for black holes, that is merely a colorful choice of wording. It is not a hole, it is a star who's gravity is so powerful that light itself cannot escape. It is a physical presence, not the absence of one. If there were another method to observe a black hole through some other type of perception, you would see it just as any other physical piece of matter, a round ball sucking in everything that comes near it. Jumping into one would only kill you, not send you back or forward in time.
A black hole is generally not just a heavy star, it's a star that have become so heavy that it has collapsed under it's own gravity, forming a singularity, which pretty much is a point in space. When you talk of a black hole you mean the singularity + the space around it that light can not escape. So you wouldn't really "see" the black hole using any type of perception.
Yeah that cannot be taken seriously in any way even if I wanted to. Even if some genius had some kick ass physics discoveries which could actually prove some possibility of bending time, he would have to explain it in a more stringent way than that video.
It represents time by a line? How did time become a line? Just because they bend that line they bend time?
It's just down to what they define as being a dimension. They said it was to describe all possible states the universe possibly be in. How is that in any way related to bending time? Seriously someone smarter than me, explain =o
On November 08 2007 01:30 CrownRoyal wrote: this video is fucking retarded
it's like some random fag rambling about penis sizes regarding dimensions.
let me sum this video up.
Child1: "Ok, I shot you kid you're dead" Child2: "No, because I have a shield that protects me from bullets that you shoot" Child1: "No, because I have a gun that destroys shields that block bullets that the gun that you thought I had use"
that continues to go on for infinity, but then there are more dimensions than infinity because of some other fucking bullshit reason that our universe has things higher than infinity or something
What do you mean by this? The video clearly states we reach a dead end at the tenth dimension when infinity of time and universes has been reached.
Your so retarded, do you not know what infinity means? Infinity means that it reaches NO END It goes on FOREVER No matter what, god, so ignorant and stubborn
On November 08 2007 07:42 Liquid`Daaman wrote: Yeah that cannot be taken seriously in any way even if I wanted to. Even if some genius had some kick ass physics discoveries which could actually prove some possibility of bending time, he would have to explain it in a more stringent way than that video.
It represents time by a line? How did time become a line? Just because they bend that line they bend time?
It's just down to what they define as being a dimension. They said it was to describe all possible states the universe possibly be in. How is that in any way related to bending time? Seriously someone smarter than me, explain =o
There's a lot of theories about these things, and there's a lot of discussions going on. This video was probably just showing one theory and was not supposed to represent some final truth from the whole scientific community
To me it looks like they are accepting that you can just bend space and time dimensions too easily, but I havn't read much about these things.
On January 22 2007 21:27 CrownRoyal wrote: I have written several things trying to decipher on my own some of the unanswerable questions in life, such as things about god and in general just all of the difficult questions in the world. I don't necessarily agree with any of them, they are just theories that I formed.
Here is one of them, it's the latest one I thought of and most of the ideas aren't completely thought out or even right, but I think it's an interesting idea.
X = Life "Theory"
In mathematics one encounters several things. One of these things being equations. Equations can be made for literally ANYTHING. These equations enable us to have a completely accurate prediction of, as I said earlier, literally anything.
Knowing this, that anything can be predicted via mathematics, I am hypothesizing that human life also must have an equation where one can predict what anyone will do in any given situation, thus human life has no free will and fate is very much so real, to the point that we are all merely points on the graph of an XY chart. The end of the world can be predicted, the creation of our world can be found, we can understand nearly all of the questions that life has left us unanswered without ever leaving our rooms, we can travel through time, we can essentially understand everything by finding an equation for every single living person to figure out what they would do in any situation presented in front of them.
I believe this hypothesis is valid for the reason that I have no reason to believe human beings are special, if I can predict how a ball will roll across the ground, I should be able to predict how someone will react if I punch them in the face, though, the equation is going to be very complex there is most definitely one to achieve the answer that I am looking for.
To say that I am looking for an equation where I will know how Johnny Walker will react to being hit in the face is completely wrong, however, I am moreso looking at the idea of an equation that would set the path of your life, from your first action to your last. I’m not sure at this point how the equation would have to work to accomplish this, I would hypothesize that the answer to how you reacted would be iterated back into the formula somehow, but the exact details are unimportant to me. In this hypothesis I am forced to assume it is possible to create this complex equation merely because I see no reason not to believe it, if I can predict other things it is my belief then I can predict human behaviors.
If I could somehow possess this wonderful tool, I could work the equations backwards or forwards through every generation(time travel). I would essentially possess the ability to know when anything would happen. What a scary idea...
In conclusion: My hypothesis is that it is possible to create an equation that will lay out the path of any man's life and if this is possible, free will is nonexistent and life isn't quite as magical as one might expect.
although this is off topic concerning the OP i think i understand this and may even be able to further make sense of this idea. i don't have much knowledge in any type of "advanced" physics(or any type of science for that matter) that could prove me wrong so i could be totally wrong about anything i say here, but i'll speak as if i'm right just for the sake of easily typing out my thoughts.
i think the idea of the world being run by "equations" therefore disproving freewill is just a small portion of another "bigger idea". our perception of free will is actually product of what chemicals in our brain tell us to do. through our upbringings our brains are "programmed" to feel certain ways and act on certain situations. the way your brain runs/reacts is actually a product of your upbringings.
Upbringings include parents(who have their own upbringings from an enormous amount of other upbringings/grandparents), other people(who also have their own lines of upbringings), and environmental events(which even the simplest events such as a breeze can be explained through science). All of these factor in to help build/teach the reactions of our brains.
then the arguement arises, "well i have free will so i can, just this second, decide that i wanna start jumping up and down". somebody would say that's free will but in reality it isnt. the whole idea of wanting to do something "randomly" isnt actually random as chemicals and w/e else goes on in our brains tells us what to do.
"In conclusion: My hypothesis is that it is possible to create an equation that will lay out the path of any man's life and if this is possible, free will is nonexistent and life isn't quite as magical as one might expect." i believe this theoretically can be done if you consider all the factors that need to be taken into account and have an unlimited data on pretty much everyhing(which leads to an endless amount of equations as you would need an "equation" for every single person in the world, every single environmental change that will occur, and then all the information about people's and the environment's interactions with each other)
sorry for the long post(i didnt mean it to be this long but i just kept going) i hope it's understandable. but in summation, we're all pretty much a product of our environment which is a product of the environment before it which is a product of the environment before that one and so on all the way back to who knows how long ago. therefore disproving free will.
[edit] to help better explain my thoughts. the reason such an idea would be outrageous is that there's an endless amount of constants in the world and all that information and the out come of their reaction with each other would need to factored into predicting anything. Think of the world as a huge controlled environment in a scientific expirement.
@8players The problem is we cannot determine everything. It's called the heisenberg uncertainty principle. The act of observation distorts the data so we cannot gather the information we need with 100% accuracy.
On November 08 2007 06:36 NewbSaibot wrote: traveling at or faster than the speed of light serves only to create an optical illusion for the traveler. So what if you move faster than a bunch of photons and therefore cannot see a change in motion, that is only a visual ocular perception, it has nothing to do with time. Time still passes as photons travel across the galaxy giving us glimpses of stars billions of years old does it not? When scientists observe a super nova that occured a million years ago does that mean no time passed during the flight of those photons which gave us a view of the super nova? Of course not.
As for black holes, that is merely a colorful choice of wording. It is not a hole, it is a star who's gravity is so powerful that light itself cannot escape. It is a physical presence, not the absence of one. If there were another method to observe a black hole through some other type of perception, you would see it just as any other physical piece of matter, a round ball sucking in everything that comes near it. Jumping into one would only kill you, not send you back or forward in time.
A black hole is generally not just a heavy star, it's a star that have become so heavy that it has collapsed under it's own gravity, forming a singularity, which pretty much is a point in space. When you talk of a black hole you mean the singularity + the space around it that light can not escape. So you wouldn't really "see" the black hole using any type of perception.
I imagine a black hole to be a very unstable looking ball that sorta looks like a pool of oil pulsing and splatting about in all directions. Almost like its trying to explode outward but can't.
On November 08 2007 01:30 CrownRoyal wrote: this video is fucking retarded
it's like some random fag rambling about penis sizes regarding dimensions.
let me sum this video up.
Child1: "Ok, I shot you kid you're dead" Child2: "No, because I have a shield that protects me from bullets that you shoot" Child1: "No, because I have a gun that destroys shields that block bullets that the gun that you thought I had use"
that continues to go on for infinity, but then there are more dimensions than infinity because of some other fucking bullshit reason that our universe has things higher than infinity or something
What do you mean by this? The video clearly states we reach a dead end at the tenth dimension when infinity of time and universes has been reached.
Your so retarded... ...god, so ignorant and stubborn
On November 08 2007 09:31 haduken wrote: I remember from my lecturer where he said time travel has already being accomplished (depends on how you interpret it i suppose).
On November 08 2007 09:31 haduken wrote: I remember from my lecturer where he said time travel has already being accomplished (depends on how you interpret it i suppose).
...source?
i don't really have a source just something i remember my lecturer at uni said. Basically it has to do with an astronaut from soviet union going to space and coming back 1 second ahead of earth time.
I don't understand how it happened but if you interpret it like my lecturer then that's evidence that time travel has already occured (1 second into the future). Something to do with laws of relativity maybe...
i was probably the weirdest fucking kid in the world
while other kids were destroying their hotwheels and shit I was thinking about this stupid shit probably at like the age of 9 and onwards.
I'm really not a nerd or all that intelligent though, I just have an incredibly open mind or something. If I really was to guess I'd say my IQ is 115-120
On November 08 2007 09:31 haduken wrote: I remember from my lecturer where he said time travel has already being accomplished (depends on how you interpret it i suppose).
...source?
i don't really have a source just something i remember my lecturer at uni said. Basically it has to do with an astronaut from soviet union going to space and coming back 1 second ahead of earth time.
I don't understand how it happened but if you interpret it like my lecturer then that's evidence that time travel has already occured (1 second into the future). Something to do with laws of relativity maybe...
Ah, ok but that is the twin-paradox, it has nothing to do with time travel really. It's just time passing at different rates at different relative speeds. It doesn't cause any real paradoxes, nothing like going back in time.
Another proposed solution to some of the paradoxes is to consider that space and time are not infinitely divisible. Just because our number system enables us to give a number between any two numbers, it does not necessarily follow that there is a point in space between any two different points in space, and the same goes for time.
If space-time is not infinitely divisible (and thus not perfectly continuous), it is "discrete" (composed of “lumps” and “jumps”). This means that motion is, at the smallest physical level, may be a series of jumps from one quantum space-time coordinate to the next, each occurring over distance and time intervals that are not divisible into smaller measures.[2]
Thus the total number of quantum jumps made while traversing from point A to point B would be finite, and there is no paradox.
Btw the 0.999...=1 can be simply proved: 1/3=0.333... 1/3x3=0.999... But we know that 1/3x3=1, so 0.999...=1
the thing that I don't like about this argument is that this is a completely different situation, you aren't dealing with 1/3's and your answer with this problem will never be a clean .999...
1/2^infinity =\\= .999 ever, unless you round it.
It's not an argument for 1/2^infitnity = 0. I just gave the proof as a side trivia thing cause alot of people don't accept that 0.999....=1. It didn't mean it as related to the whole zeno's paradox thing.
Wikipedia wrote: [edit] Are space and time infinitely divisible? Main article: Planck length Another proposed solution to some of the paradoxes is to consider that space and time are not infinitely divisible. Just because our number system enables us to give a number between any two numbers, it does not necessarily follow that there is a point in space between any two different points in space, and the same goes for time.
If space-time is not infinitely divisible (and thus not perfectly continuous), it is "discrete" (composed of “lumps” and “jumps”). This means that motion is, at the smallest physical level, may be a series of jumps from one quantum space-time coordinate to the next, each occurring over distance and time intervals that are not divisible into smaller measures.[2]
Thus the total number of quantum jumps made while traversing from point A to point B would be finite, and there is no paradox.
wouldn't these lumps just turn into the smallest of numbers in our number system and the whole process is back to normal?
On November 08 2007 10:55 CrownRoyal wrote: i was probably the weirdest fucking kid in the world
while other kids were destroying their hotwheels and shit I was thinking about this stupid shit probably at like the age of 9 and onwards.
I'm really not a nerd or all that intelligent though, I just have an incredibly open mind or something. If I really was to guess I'd say my IQ is 115-120
you just gave yourself an above average IQ score, by definition, thats intelligent.
On November 08 2007 08:31 urban_attack wrote: @8players The problem is we cannot determine everything. It's called the heisenberg uncertainty principle. The act of observation distorts the data so we cannot gather the information we need with 100% accuracy.
True, it's impossible to accurately determine....anything. Therefore the clockwork universe model is bunk, and it's a hard fact to accept. Einstein himself gave the quote "I don't believe that God plays dice" (or something along those lines, too lazy to find the actual quote).
Technically before you measure something it's in a superposition of states. It's a quantum wave function that gives the object a PROBABILITY of being in a certain place, but doesn't rule out the possibility that whatever you're measuring is in, say, the andromeda galaxy. It's unlikely, one in 1^1000 or w/e, but still a possbility. Once you measure said object (by bouncing photons off it or something, which is seeing it), you collapse the wave function of the object and it is observed in 1 single place.
I think thats the way it goes, I've never learned any of this stuff in school so I may have misinterpreted it, i'm sure some smart tl.netter will come along and correct me.
EPT
Anyway, the thing I suggest to read (a sci-fi) is Asimov's "Death of Eternity". I think the title is not 100% correct, as it is a mirror translation from the hungarian title... (A halhatatlanság halála).
