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On November 18 2024 23:24 2Pacalypse- wrote:It says in the article he said that in 2022? If so, that's a weird timing for Putin to do something about that now.
Yeah, noticed that too. Could be any number of things happening behind the scenes that we'll never know about
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Well he was russian and living in moscov, the majority supports this so the population get what they deserve
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On November 17 2024 13:01 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2024 01:00 Billyboy wrote:War strategy buffs, I have a strategy I'd like to propose and get your opinions on how it would work if they did it. + Show Spoiler +I have no expectation that this is actually going to happen, I just think it would help and I have not read any what ifs on this scenario. What it would do well and what it would do poorly I'm interested in hearing about. Why they would not do it not so much because I think we all know those  I think Poland, the Baltics, Norway and Finland should all prepare for war and move their militaries to an obvious offensive position for "war games". Canada and Sweden prepare for taking the Artic. The rest of the countries that support Ukraine should also move their militaries as if to defend the NATO countries. At the same time they should remove all restrictions on Ukraine from using western made weapons and Ukraine should announce an massive conscription. I believe this would force Russia to slow their offense and defend against a possible attack. If they do not, it makes it painfully clear that their propaganda of fear of a NATO attack is complete horse shit as they are defending against offensive posturing. It would energize the Ukrainian people as they would feel supported and as if they had a real chance to defeat Russia. If Russia keeps going Poland, Finland and others could decide to take back their historic land (or threaten it) unless Russia returns to its pre 2014 boarders. They should also send words of support and promises to support any uprising anywhere in Russia. (and perhaps actually send military supplies). Also, of this would require firing any bullets or risking any troops. It would also be great practice for western militaries. Sure you are risking escalation, but Russia knows they can't fight everyone even with their tight allies of Iran and NK. I doubt their shadow allies helping them economically are going to enter. I don't think it would like instantly win the war or anything like that, but I think it would put immense pressure on Putin and his strategic staff. Waste huge amount of their resources, including time and planning, I don't think Russia would escalate because other than nukes they are maxed out and currently they could still turn back, and the powerbrokers can keep getting rich off their peoples cheap labour and selling resources abroad. The Russian people themselves would be all the sudden scared because Ukraine could and will hit them anywhere and all these other militaries who are fresh are perched right outside their boarders. All the places that hate Russia in Russia might also become emboldened. Tear my strategy apart, support it. Interested on how you think it would work. (not that you don't think they would do it, because I know and agree with that.) Great strategy. Putin then nukes London, Paris, Berlin, Warsaw, Rome effectively ending war and putting Europe in middle ages. If you think US will risk actual extinction in the name of revenge, I would suggest rethinking that.
Are you off to your bomb shelter? This is the second most aggressive part of the strategy I suggested. And if they would nuke for build up, they certainly will for strikes into Russia.
I'm not worried, I believe this is like the 20th red line? I'm guessing the response will be more business as usual for Russia.
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On November 17 2024 19:50 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2024 13:01 Razyda wrote:On November 17 2024 01:00 Billyboy wrote:War strategy buffs, I have a strategy I'd like to propose and get your opinions on how it would work if they did it. + Show Spoiler +I have no expectation that this is actually going to happen, I just think it would help and I have not read any what ifs on this scenario. What it would do well and what it would do poorly I'm interested in hearing about. Why they would not do it not so much because I think we all know those I think Poland, the Baltics, Norway and Finland should all prepare for war and move their militaries to an obvious offensive position for "war games". Canada and Sweden prepare for taking the Artic. The rest of the countries that support Ukraine should also move their militaries as if to defend the NATO countries. At the same time they should remove all restrictions on Ukraine from using western made weapons and Ukraine should announce an massive conscription. I believe this would force Russia to slow their offense and defend against a possible attack. If they do not, it makes it painfully clear that their propaganda of fear of a NATO attack is complete horse shit as they are defending against offensive posturing. It would energize the Ukrainian people as they would feel supported and as if they had a real chance to defeat Russia. If Russia keeps going Poland, Finland and others could decide to take back their historic land (or threaten it) unless Russia returns to its pre 2014 boarders. They should also send words of support and promises to support any uprising anywhere in Russia. (and perhaps actually send military supplies). Also, of this would require firing any bullets or risking any troops. It would also be great practice for western militaries. Sure you are risking escalation, but Russia knows they can't fight everyone even with their tight allies of Iran and NK. I doubt their shadow allies helping them economically are going to enter. I don't think it would like instantly win the war or anything like that, but I think it would put immense pressure on Putin and his strategic staff. Waste huge amount of their resources, including time and planning, I don't think Russia would escalate because other than nukes they are maxed out and currently they could still turn back, and the powerbrokers can keep getting rich off their peoples cheap labour and selling resources abroad. The Russian people themselves would be all the sudden scared because Ukraine could and will hit them anywhere and all these other militaries who are fresh are perched right outside their boarders. All the places that hate Russia in Russia might also become emboldened. Tear my strategy apart, support it. Interested on how you think it would work. (not that you don't think they would do it, because I know and agree with that.) Great strategy. Putin then nukes London, Paris, Berlin, Warsaw, Rome effectively ending war and putting Europe in middle ages. If you think US will risk actual extinction in the name of revenge, I would suggest rethinking that. I guess the war effectively ends when British and French second strike capabilities wipe out all major Russian cities.Fair chance the US gets fucked by Russian second strike in the following confusion. No, in that scenario Russia would nuke some midsize border cities from the direction NATO advances, like in Finland and Poland. And probably also Ukraine. Then the war ends because no one else wants to die.
I am sorry but have you seen the map? Russia is effectively more than twice the size of Europe. Also some numbers:
Russia population density:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia#:~:text=As of the 2021 census,22 inhabitants/sq mi).
8.5 inhabitants per square kilometre
Europe population density:
https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/europe-population/#:~:text=Europe Population (LIVE)&text=The population density in Europe,87 people per mi2).
The population density in Europe is 34 per square kilometre
bolded - and no, precisely because France and UK have nuclear weapons Russia would have to target them first, to cripple response and ensure that Europe is no longer relevant.
Italic - all? like for example Vladivostok which is in close proximity to China and North Korea?
On November 19 2024 05:31 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2024 13:01 Razyda wrote:On November 17 2024 01:00 Billyboy wrote:War strategy buffs, I have a strategy I'd like to propose and get your opinions on how it would work if they did it. + Show Spoiler +I have no expectation that this is actually going to happen, I just think it would help and I have not read any what ifs on this scenario. What it would do well and what it would do poorly I'm interested in hearing about. Why they would not do it not so much because I think we all know those I think Poland, the Baltics, Norway and Finland should all prepare for war and move their militaries to an obvious offensive position for "war games". Canada and Sweden prepare for taking the Artic. The rest of the countries that support Ukraine should also move their militaries as if to defend the NATO countries. At the same time they should remove all restrictions on Ukraine from using western made weapons and Ukraine should announce an massive conscription. I believe this would force Russia to slow their offense and defend against a possible attack. If they do not, it makes it painfully clear that their propaganda of fear of a NATO attack is complete horse shit as they are defending against offensive posturing. It would energize the Ukrainian people as they would feel supported and as if they had a real chance to defeat Russia. If Russia keeps going Poland, Finland and others could decide to take back their historic land (or threaten it) unless Russia returns to its pre 2014 boarders. They should also send words of support and promises to support any uprising anywhere in Russia. (and perhaps actually send military supplies). Also, of this would require firing any bullets or risking any troops. It would also be great practice for western militaries. Sure you are risking escalation, but Russia knows they can't fight everyone even with their tight allies of Iran and NK. I doubt their shadow allies helping them economically are going to enter. I don't think it would like instantly win the war or anything like that, but I think it would put immense pressure on Putin and his strategic staff. Waste huge amount of their resources, including time and planning, I don't think Russia would escalate because other than nukes they are maxed out and currently they could still turn back, and the powerbrokers can keep getting rich off their peoples cheap labour and selling resources abroad. The Russian people themselves would be all the sudden scared because Ukraine could and will hit them anywhere and all these other militaries who are fresh are perched right outside their boarders. All the places that hate Russia in Russia might also become emboldened. Tear my strategy apart, support it. Interested on how you think it would work. (not that you don't think they would do it, because I know and agree with that.) Great strategy. Putin then nukes London, Paris, Berlin, Warsaw, Rome effectively ending war and putting Europe in middle ages. If you think US will risk actual extinction in the name of revenge, I would suggest rethinking that. Are you off to your bomb shelter? This is the second most aggressive part of the strategy I suggested. And if they would nuke for build up, they certainly will for strikes into Russia. I'm not worried, I believe this is like the 20th red line? I'm guessing the response will be more business as usual for Russia.
Bolded - in shocking development Canadians aren't worried about Russia using nukes.
From your other posts it seems to me that you think you support Ukraine? I think it is BS, prove me wrong:
https://ildu.com.ua/
Edit: typo
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United States43676 Posts
On November 19 2024 09:34 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2024 19:50 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On November 17 2024 13:01 Razyda wrote:On November 17 2024 01:00 Billyboy wrote:War strategy buffs, I have a strategy I'd like to propose and get your opinions on how it would work if they did it. + Show Spoiler +I have no expectation that this is actually going to happen, I just think it would help and I have not read any what ifs on this scenario. What it would do well and what it would do poorly I'm interested in hearing about. Why they would not do it not so much because I think we all know those I think Poland, the Baltics, Norway and Finland should all prepare for war and move their militaries to an obvious offensive position for "war games". Canada and Sweden prepare for taking the Artic. The rest of the countries that support Ukraine should also move their militaries as if to defend the NATO countries. At the same time they should remove all restrictions on Ukraine from using western made weapons and Ukraine should announce an massive conscription. I believe this would force Russia to slow their offense and defend against a possible attack. If they do not, it makes it painfully clear that their propaganda of fear of a NATO attack is complete horse shit as they are defending against offensive posturing. It would energize the Ukrainian people as they would feel supported and as if they had a real chance to defeat Russia. If Russia keeps going Poland, Finland and others could decide to take back their historic land (or threaten it) unless Russia returns to its pre 2014 boarders. They should also send words of support and promises to support any uprising anywhere in Russia. (and perhaps actually send military supplies). Also, of this would require firing any bullets or risking any troops. It would also be great practice for western militaries. Sure you are risking escalation, but Russia knows they can't fight everyone even with their tight allies of Iran and NK. I doubt their shadow allies helping them economically are going to enter. I don't think it would like instantly win the war or anything like that, but I think it would put immense pressure on Putin and his strategic staff. Waste huge amount of their resources, including time and planning, I don't think Russia would escalate because other than nukes they are maxed out and currently they could still turn back, and the powerbrokers can keep getting rich off their peoples cheap labour and selling resources abroad. The Russian people themselves would be all the sudden scared because Ukraine could and will hit them anywhere and all these other militaries who are fresh are perched right outside their boarders. All the places that hate Russia in Russia might also become emboldened. Tear my strategy apart, support it. Interested on how you think it would work. (not that you don't think they would do it, because I know and agree with that.) Great strategy. Putin then nukes London, Paris, Berlin, Warsaw, Rome effectively ending war and putting Europe in middle ages. If you think US will risk actual extinction in the name of revenge, I would suggest rethinking that. I guess the war effectively ends when British and French second strike capabilities wipe out all major Russian cities.Fair chance the US gets fucked by Russian second strike in the following confusion. No, in that scenario Russia would nuke some midsize border cities from the direction NATO advances, like in Finland and Poland. And probably also Ukraine. Then the war ends because no one else wants to die. I am sorry but have you seen the map? Russia is effectively more than twice the size of Europe. Also some numbers: Russia population density: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia#:~:text=As of the 2021 census,22 inhabitants/sq mi). 8.5 inhabitants per square kilometre Europe population density: https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/europe-population/#:~:text=Europe Population (LIVE)&text=The population density in Europe,87 people per mi2). The population density in Europe is 34 per square kilometre
Russia's population density isn't so low. Hell, it's actually higher than that of the Kingdom of Denmark. Now you may argue that this is misleading because the Kingdom of Denmark includes Greenland which is mostly ice and the vast majority of people live in one area adjacent to Europe. To which I'd reply "didn't you just try to argue about the population density of Russia?"
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On November 19 2024 10:23 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2024 09:34 Razyda wrote:On November 17 2024 19:50 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On November 17 2024 13:01 Razyda wrote:On November 17 2024 01:00 Billyboy wrote:War strategy buffs, I have a strategy I'd like to propose and get your opinions on how it would work if they did it. + Show Spoiler +I have no expectation that this is actually going to happen, I just think it would help and I have not read any what ifs on this scenario. What it would do well and what it would do poorly I'm interested in hearing about. Why they would not do it not so much because I think we all know those I think Poland, the Baltics, Norway and Finland should all prepare for war and move their militaries to an obvious offensive position for "war games". Canada and Sweden prepare for taking the Artic. The rest of the countries that support Ukraine should also move their militaries as if to defend the NATO countries. At the same time they should remove all restrictions on Ukraine from using western made weapons and Ukraine should announce an massive conscription. I believe this would force Russia to slow their offense and defend against a possible attack. If they do not, it makes it painfully clear that their propaganda of fear of a NATO attack is complete horse shit as they are defending against offensive posturing. It would energize the Ukrainian people as they would feel supported and as if they had a real chance to defeat Russia. If Russia keeps going Poland, Finland and others could decide to take back their historic land (or threaten it) unless Russia returns to its pre 2014 boarders. They should also send words of support and promises to support any uprising anywhere in Russia. (and perhaps actually send military supplies). Also, of this would require firing any bullets or risking any troops. It would also be great practice for western militaries. Sure you are risking escalation, but Russia knows they can't fight everyone even with their tight allies of Iran and NK. I doubt their shadow allies helping them economically are going to enter. I don't think it would like instantly win the war or anything like that, but I think it would put immense pressure on Putin and his strategic staff. Waste huge amount of their resources, including time and planning, I don't think Russia would escalate because other than nukes they are maxed out and currently they could still turn back, and the powerbrokers can keep getting rich off their peoples cheap labour and selling resources abroad. The Russian people themselves would be all the sudden scared because Ukraine could and will hit them anywhere and all these other militaries who are fresh are perched right outside their boarders. All the places that hate Russia in Russia might also become emboldened. Tear my strategy apart, support it. Interested on how you think it would work. (not that you don't think they would do it, because I know and agree with that.) Great strategy. Putin then nukes London, Paris, Berlin, Warsaw, Rome effectively ending war and putting Europe in middle ages. If you think US will risk actual extinction in the name of revenge, I would suggest rethinking that. I guess the war effectively ends when British and French second strike capabilities wipe out all major Russian cities.Fair chance the US gets fucked by Russian second strike in the following confusion. No, in that scenario Russia would nuke some midsize border cities from the direction NATO advances, like in Finland and Poland. And probably also Ukraine. Then the war ends because no one else wants to die. I am sorry but have you seen the map? Russia is effectively more than twice the size of Europe. Also some numbers: Russia population density: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia#:~:text=As of the 2021 census,22 inhabitants/sq mi). 8.5 inhabitants per square kilometre Europe population density: https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/europe-population/#:~:text=Europe Population (LIVE)&text=The population density in Europe,87 people per mi2). The population density in Europe is 34 per square kilometre Russia's population density isn't so low. Hell, it's actually higher than that of the Kingdom of Denmark. Now you may argue that this is misleading because the Kingdom of Denmark includes Greenland which is mostly ice and the vast majority of people live in one area adjacent to Europe. To which I'd reply "didn't you just try to argue about the population density of Russia?"
I wouldn't argue that though. Why would I? The simple fact is that any nuclear strike of Russia on Europe is devastating, while Europe nuclear strike on Russia is sort of a scratch thing.
Europe area: 10.53 million square kilometers
Russia area: Total 17,098,246 square kilometers
Europe area - Russia area: 10,014,000 - 3,952,550 = 6061450 square kilometers
Doesn't that put things into perspective?
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United States43676 Posts
On November 19 2024 10:37 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2024 10:23 KwarK wrote:On November 19 2024 09:34 Razyda wrote:On November 17 2024 19:50 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On November 17 2024 13:01 Razyda wrote:On November 17 2024 01:00 Billyboy wrote:War strategy buffs, I have a strategy I'd like to propose and get your opinions on how it would work if they did it. + Show Spoiler +I have no expectation that this is actually going to happen, I just think it would help and I have not read any what ifs on this scenario. What it would do well and what it would do poorly I'm interested in hearing about. Why they would not do it not so much because I think we all know those I think Poland, the Baltics, Norway and Finland should all prepare for war and move their militaries to an obvious offensive position for "war games". Canada and Sweden prepare for taking the Artic. The rest of the countries that support Ukraine should also move their militaries as if to defend the NATO countries. At the same time they should remove all restrictions on Ukraine from using western made weapons and Ukraine should announce an massive conscription. I believe this would force Russia to slow their offense and defend against a possible attack. If they do not, it makes it painfully clear that their propaganda of fear of a NATO attack is complete horse shit as they are defending against offensive posturing. It would energize the Ukrainian people as they would feel supported and as if they had a real chance to defeat Russia. If Russia keeps going Poland, Finland and others could decide to take back their historic land (or threaten it) unless Russia returns to its pre 2014 boarders. They should also send words of support and promises to support any uprising anywhere in Russia. (and perhaps actually send military supplies). Also, of this would require firing any bullets or risking any troops. It would also be great practice for western militaries. Sure you are risking escalation, but Russia knows they can't fight everyone even with their tight allies of Iran and NK. I doubt their shadow allies helping them economically are going to enter. I don't think it would like instantly win the war or anything like that, but I think it would put immense pressure on Putin and his strategic staff. Waste huge amount of their resources, including time and planning, I don't think Russia would escalate because other than nukes they are maxed out and currently they could still turn back, and the powerbrokers can keep getting rich off their peoples cheap labour and selling resources abroad. The Russian people themselves would be all the sudden scared because Ukraine could and will hit them anywhere and all these other militaries who are fresh are perched right outside their boarders. All the places that hate Russia in Russia might also become emboldened. Tear my strategy apart, support it. Interested on how you think it would work. (not that you don't think they would do it, because I know and agree with that.) Great strategy. Putin then nukes London, Paris, Berlin, Warsaw, Rome effectively ending war and putting Europe in middle ages. If you think US will risk actual extinction in the name of revenge, I would suggest rethinking that. I guess the war effectively ends when British and French second strike capabilities wipe out all major Russian cities.Fair chance the US gets fucked by Russian second strike in the following confusion. No, in that scenario Russia would nuke some midsize border cities from the direction NATO advances, like in Finland and Poland. And probably also Ukraine. Then the war ends because no one else wants to die. I am sorry but have you seen the map? Russia is effectively more than twice the size of Europe. Also some numbers: Russia population density: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia#:~:text=As of the 2021 census,22 inhabitants/sq mi). 8.5 inhabitants per square kilometre Europe population density: https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/europe-population/#:~:text=Europe Population (LIVE)&text=The population density in Europe,87 people per mi2). The population density in Europe is 34 per square kilometre Russia's population density isn't so low. Hell, it's actually higher than that of the Kingdom of Denmark. Now you may argue that this is misleading because the Kingdom of Denmark includes Greenland which is mostly ice and the vast majority of people live in one area adjacent to Europe. To which I'd reply "didn't you just try to argue about the population density of Russia?" I wouldn't argue that though. Why would I? The simple fact is that any nuclear strike of Russia on Europe is devastating, while Europe nuclear strike on Russia is sort of a scratch thing. Europe area: 10.53 million square kilometers Russia area: Total 17,098,246 square kilometers Europe area - Russia area: 10,014,000 - 3,952,550 = 6061450 square kilometers Doesn't that put things into perspective?
No, it doesn’t, because Europe includes Denmark so I win.
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On November 19 2024 10:39 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2024 10:37 Razyda wrote:On November 19 2024 10:23 KwarK wrote:On November 19 2024 09:34 Razyda wrote:On November 17 2024 19:50 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On November 17 2024 13:01 Razyda wrote:On November 17 2024 01:00 Billyboy wrote:War strategy buffs, I have a strategy I'd like to propose and get your opinions on how it would work if they did it. + Show Spoiler +I have no expectation that this is actually going to happen, I just think it would help and I have not read any what ifs on this scenario. What it would do well and what it would do poorly I'm interested in hearing about. Why they would not do it not so much because I think we all know those I think Poland, the Baltics, Norway and Finland should all prepare for war and move their militaries to an obvious offensive position for "war games". Canada and Sweden prepare for taking the Artic. The rest of the countries that support Ukraine should also move their militaries as if to defend the NATO countries. At the same time they should remove all restrictions on Ukraine from using western made weapons and Ukraine should announce an massive conscription. I believe this would force Russia to slow their offense and defend against a possible attack. If they do not, it makes it painfully clear that their propaganda of fear of a NATO attack is complete horse shit as they are defending against offensive posturing. It would energize the Ukrainian people as they would feel supported and as if they had a real chance to defeat Russia. If Russia keeps going Poland, Finland and others could decide to take back their historic land (or threaten it) unless Russia returns to its pre 2014 boarders. They should also send words of support and promises to support any uprising anywhere in Russia. (and perhaps actually send military supplies). Also, of this would require firing any bullets or risking any troops. It would also be great practice for western militaries. Sure you are risking escalation, but Russia knows they can't fight everyone even with their tight allies of Iran and NK. I doubt their shadow allies helping them economically are going to enter. I don't think it would like instantly win the war or anything like that, but I think it would put immense pressure on Putin and his strategic staff. Waste huge amount of their resources, including time and planning, I don't think Russia would escalate because other than nukes they are maxed out and currently they could still turn back, and the powerbrokers can keep getting rich off their peoples cheap labour and selling resources abroad. The Russian people themselves would be all the sudden scared because Ukraine could and will hit them anywhere and all these other militaries who are fresh are perched right outside their boarders. All the places that hate Russia in Russia might also become emboldened. Tear my strategy apart, support it. Interested on how you think it would work. (not that you don't think they would do it, because I know and agree with that.) Great strategy. Putin then nukes London, Paris, Berlin, Warsaw, Rome effectively ending war and putting Europe in middle ages. If you think US will risk actual extinction in the name of revenge, I would suggest rethinking that. I guess the war effectively ends when British and French second strike capabilities wipe out all major Russian cities.Fair chance the US gets fucked by Russian second strike in the following confusion. No, in that scenario Russia would nuke some midsize border cities from the direction NATO advances, like in Finland and Poland. And probably also Ukraine. Then the war ends because no one else wants to die. I am sorry but have you seen the map? Russia is effectively more than twice the size of Europe. Also some numbers: Russia population density: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia#:~:text=As of the 2021 census,22 inhabitants/sq mi). 8.5 inhabitants per square kilometre Europe population density: https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/europe-population/#:~:text=Europe Population (LIVE)&text=The population density in Europe,87 people per mi2). The population density in Europe is 34 per square kilometre Russia's population density isn't so low. Hell, it's actually higher than that of the Kingdom of Denmark. Now you may argue that this is misleading because the Kingdom of Denmark includes Greenland which is mostly ice and the vast majority of people live in one area adjacent to Europe. To which I'd reply "didn't you just try to argue about the population density of Russia?" I wouldn't argue that though. Why would I? The simple fact is that any nuclear strike of Russia on Europe is devastating, while Europe nuclear strike on Russia is sort of a scratch thing. Europe area: 10.53 million square kilometers Russia area: Total 17,098,246 square kilometers Europe area - Russia area: 10,014,000 - 3,952,550 = 6061450 square kilometers Doesn't that put things into perspective? No, it doesn’t, because Europe includes Denmark so I win.
First of all: I don't think anybody wins.
Europe being reduced to Greenland doesn't seem like a "win"...
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Canada11440 Posts
Point being that the density is not evenly distributed, so the big population centres are nearly all clustered in the west of Russia.
Same thing with Canada actually. Who really cares how low Canadian population density is due to our vast land when you basically only need two major targets: lower mainland in the West and all along the Saint Lawrence lowlands. Maybe if you wanted to 'screw you, in particular' you throw a nuke each at Alberta's two big cities. Nuclear apocalypse without scratching hardly a percent of Canadian real estate. The moose and the beavers will have free rein, but Canada would be largely dead.
edit.
And for the record, if the missiles start flying, pretty sure Canada is catching some strays. They largely have to fly over us anyways and we at least used to be part of the integrated early warning system. Don't know if any of that still exists as technology moved on and everyone understandably thought we were done with the Cold War. But there it s.
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United States43676 Posts
On November 19 2024 10:51 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2024 10:39 KwarK wrote:On November 19 2024 10:37 Razyda wrote:On November 19 2024 10:23 KwarK wrote:On November 19 2024 09:34 Razyda wrote:On November 17 2024 19:50 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On November 17 2024 13:01 Razyda wrote:On November 17 2024 01:00 Billyboy wrote:War strategy buffs, I have a strategy I'd like to propose and get your opinions on how it would work if they did it. + Show Spoiler +I have no expectation that this is actually going to happen, I just think it would help and I have not read any what ifs on this scenario. What it would do well and what it would do poorly I'm interested in hearing about. Why they would not do it not so much because I think we all know those I think Poland, the Baltics, Norway and Finland should all prepare for war and move their militaries to an obvious offensive position for "war games". Canada and Sweden prepare for taking the Artic. The rest of the countries that support Ukraine should also move their militaries as if to defend the NATO countries. At the same time they should remove all restrictions on Ukraine from using western made weapons and Ukraine should announce an massive conscription. I believe this would force Russia to slow their offense and defend against a possible attack. If they do not, it makes it painfully clear that their propaganda of fear of a NATO attack is complete horse shit as they are defending against offensive posturing. It would energize the Ukrainian people as they would feel supported and as if they had a real chance to defeat Russia. If Russia keeps going Poland, Finland and others could decide to take back their historic land (or threaten it) unless Russia returns to its pre 2014 boarders. They should also send words of support and promises to support any uprising anywhere in Russia. (and perhaps actually send military supplies). Also, of this would require firing any bullets or risking any troops. It would also be great practice for western militaries. Sure you are risking escalation, but Russia knows they can't fight everyone even with their tight allies of Iran and NK. I doubt their shadow allies helping them economically are going to enter. I don't think it would like instantly win the war or anything like that, but I think it would put immense pressure on Putin and his strategic staff. Waste huge amount of their resources, including time and planning, I don't think Russia would escalate because other than nukes they are maxed out and currently they could still turn back, and the powerbrokers can keep getting rich off their peoples cheap labour and selling resources abroad. The Russian people themselves would be all the sudden scared because Ukraine could and will hit them anywhere and all these other militaries who are fresh are perched right outside their boarders. All the places that hate Russia in Russia might also become emboldened. Tear my strategy apart, support it. Interested on how you think it would work. (not that you don't think they would do it, because I know and agree with that.) Great strategy. Putin then nukes London, Paris, Berlin, Warsaw, Rome effectively ending war and putting Europe in middle ages. If you think US will risk actual extinction in the name of revenge, I would suggest rethinking that. I guess the war effectively ends when British and French second strike capabilities wipe out all major Russian cities.Fair chance the US gets fucked by Russian second strike in the following confusion. No, in that scenario Russia would nuke some midsize border cities from the direction NATO advances, like in Finland and Poland. And probably also Ukraine. Then the war ends because no one else wants to die. I am sorry but have you seen the map? Russia is effectively more than twice the size of Europe. Also some numbers: Russia population density: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia#:~:text=As of the 2021 census,22 inhabitants/sq mi). 8.5 inhabitants per square kilometre Europe population density: https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/europe-population/#:~:text=Europe Population (LIVE)&text=The population density in Europe,87 people per mi2). The population density in Europe is 34 per square kilometre Russia's population density isn't so low. Hell, it's actually higher than that of the Kingdom of Denmark. Now you may argue that this is misleading because the Kingdom of Denmark includes Greenland which is mostly ice and the vast majority of people live in one area adjacent to Europe. To which I'd reply "didn't you just try to argue about the population density of Russia?" I wouldn't argue that though. Why would I? The simple fact is that any nuclear strike of Russia on Europe is devastating, while Europe nuclear strike on Russia is sort of a scratch thing. Europe area: 10.53 million square kilometers Russia area: Total 17,098,246 square kilometers Europe area - Russia area: 10,014,000 - 3,952,550 = 6061450 square kilometers Doesn't that put things into perspective? No, it doesn’t, because Europe includes Denmark so I win. First of all: I don't think anybody wins. Europe being reduced to Greenland doesn't seem like a "win"...
I don’t know, seems like I win because Kingdom of Denmark Sorry buddy but you lose. Get Denmark’d.
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United States43676 Posts
On November 19 2024 10:51 Falling wrote:
Point being that the density is not evenly distributed, so the big population centres are nearly all clustered in the west of Russia.
Same thing with Canada actually. Who really cares how low Canadian population density is due to our vast land when you basically only need two major targets: lower mainland in the West and all along the Saint Lawrence lowlands. Maybe if you wanted to 'screw you, in particular' you throw a nuke each at Alberta's two big cities. Nuclear apocalypse without scratching hardly a percent of Canadian real estate. The moose and the beavers will have free rein, but Canada would be largely dead.
Rein
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Canada11440 Posts
Ah, right. Horse metaphor, rather than a kingly one.
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On November 19 2024 10:57 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2024 10:51 Razyda wrote:On November 19 2024 10:39 KwarK wrote:On November 19 2024 10:37 Razyda wrote:On November 19 2024 10:23 KwarK wrote:On November 19 2024 09:34 Razyda wrote:On November 17 2024 19:50 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On November 17 2024 13:01 Razyda wrote:On November 17 2024 01:00 Billyboy wrote:War strategy buffs, I have a strategy I'd like to propose and get your opinions on how it would work if they did it. + Show Spoiler +I have no expectation that this is actually going to happen, I just think it would help and I have not read any what ifs on this scenario. What it would do well and what it would do poorly I'm interested in hearing about. Why they would not do it not so much because I think we all know those I think Poland, the Baltics, Norway and Finland should all prepare for war and move their militaries to an obvious offensive position for "war games". Canada and Sweden prepare for taking the Artic. The rest of the countries that support Ukraine should also move their militaries as if to defend the NATO countries. At the same time they should remove all restrictions on Ukraine from using western made weapons and Ukraine should announce an massive conscription. I believe this would force Russia to slow their offense and defend against a possible attack. If they do not, it makes it painfully clear that their propaganda of fear of a NATO attack is complete horse shit as they are defending against offensive posturing. It would energize the Ukrainian people as they would feel supported and as if they had a real chance to defeat Russia. If Russia keeps going Poland, Finland and others could decide to take back their historic land (or threaten it) unless Russia returns to its pre 2014 boarders. They should also send words of support and promises to support any uprising anywhere in Russia. (and perhaps actually send military supplies). Also, of this would require firing any bullets or risking any troops. It would also be great practice for western militaries. Sure you are risking escalation, but Russia knows they can't fight everyone even with their tight allies of Iran and NK. I doubt their shadow allies helping them economically are going to enter. I don't think it would like instantly win the war or anything like that, but I think it would put immense pressure on Putin and his strategic staff. Waste huge amount of their resources, including time and planning, I don't think Russia would escalate because other than nukes they are maxed out and currently they could still turn back, and the powerbrokers can keep getting rich off their peoples cheap labour and selling resources abroad. The Russian people themselves would be all the sudden scared because Ukraine could and will hit them anywhere and all these other militaries who are fresh are perched right outside their boarders. All the places that hate Russia in Russia might also become emboldened. Tear my strategy apart, support it. Interested on how you think it would work. (not that you don't think they would do it, because I know and agree with that.) Great strategy. Putin then nukes London, Paris, Berlin, Warsaw, Rome effectively ending war and putting Europe in middle ages. If you think US will risk actual extinction in the name of revenge, I would suggest rethinking that. I guess the war effectively ends when British and French second strike capabilities wipe out all major Russian cities.Fair chance the US gets fucked by Russian second strike in the following confusion. No, in that scenario Russia would nuke some midsize border cities from the direction NATO advances, like in Finland and Poland. And probably also Ukraine. Then the war ends because no one else wants to die. I am sorry but have you seen the map? Russia is effectively more than twice the size of Europe. Also some numbers: Russia population density: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia#:~:text=As of the 2021 census,22 inhabitants/sq mi). 8.5 inhabitants per square kilometre Europe population density: https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/europe-population/#:~:text=Europe Population (LIVE)&text=The population density in Europe,87 people per mi2). The population density in Europe is 34 per square kilometre Russia's population density isn't so low. Hell, it's actually higher than that of the Kingdom of Denmark. Now you may argue that this is misleading because the Kingdom of Denmark includes Greenland which is mostly ice and the vast majority of people live in one area adjacent to Europe. To which I'd reply "didn't you just try to argue about the population density of Russia?" I wouldn't argue that though. Why would I? The simple fact is that any nuclear strike of Russia on Europe is devastating, while Europe nuclear strike on Russia is sort of a scratch thing. Europe area: 10.53 million square kilometers Russia area: Total 17,098,246 square kilometers Europe area - Russia area: 10,014,000 - 3,952,550 = 6061450 square kilometers Doesn't that put things into perspective? No, it doesn’t, because Europe includes Denmark so I win. First of all: I don't think anybody wins. Europe being reduced to Greenland doesn't seem like a "win"... I don’t know, seems like I win because Kingdom of Denmark Sorry buddy but you lose. Get Denmark’d.
I am pretty sure you don't. Europe gets reduced to Greenland and Iceland, while Russia looses maybe Moscow and Leningrad. Hardly seems like an even trade...
Edit: for explanation Leningrad = St Petersburg
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United States43676 Posts
On November 19 2024 11:18 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2024 10:57 KwarK wrote:On November 19 2024 10:51 Razyda wrote:On November 19 2024 10:39 KwarK wrote:On November 19 2024 10:37 Razyda wrote:On November 19 2024 10:23 KwarK wrote:On November 19 2024 09:34 Razyda wrote:On November 17 2024 19:50 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On November 17 2024 13:01 Razyda wrote:On November 17 2024 01:00 Billyboy wrote:War strategy buffs, I have a strategy I'd like to propose and get your opinions on how it would work if they did it. + Show Spoiler +I have no expectation that this is actually going to happen, I just think it would help and I have not read any what ifs on this scenario. What it would do well and what it would do poorly I'm interested in hearing about. Why they would not do it not so much because I think we all know those I think Poland, the Baltics, Norway and Finland should all prepare for war and move their militaries to an obvious offensive position for "war games". Canada and Sweden prepare for taking the Artic. The rest of the countries that support Ukraine should also move their militaries as if to defend the NATO countries. At the same time they should remove all restrictions on Ukraine from using western made weapons and Ukraine should announce an massive conscription. I believe this would force Russia to slow their offense and defend against a possible attack. If they do not, it makes it painfully clear that their propaganda of fear of a NATO attack is complete horse shit as they are defending against offensive posturing. It would energize the Ukrainian people as they would feel supported and as if they had a real chance to defeat Russia. If Russia keeps going Poland, Finland and others could decide to take back their historic land (or threaten it) unless Russia returns to its pre 2014 boarders. They should also send words of support and promises to support any uprising anywhere in Russia. (and perhaps actually send military supplies). Also, of this would require firing any bullets or risking any troops. It would also be great practice for western militaries. Sure you are risking escalation, but Russia knows they can't fight everyone even with their tight allies of Iran and NK. I doubt their shadow allies helping them economically are going to enter. I don't think it would like instantly win the war or anything like that, but I think it would put immense pressure on Putin and his strategic staff. Waste huge amount of their resources, including time and planning, I don't think Russia would escalate because other than nukes they are maxed out and currently they could still turn back, and the powerbrokers can keep getting rich off their peoples cheap labour and selling resources abroad. The Russian people themselves would be all the sudden scared because Ukraine could and will hit them anywhere and all these other militaries who are fresh are perched right outside their boarders. All the places that hate Russia in Russia might also become emboldened. Tear my strategy apart, support it. Interested on how you think it would work. (not that you don't think they would do it, because I know and agree with that.) Great strategy. Putin then nukes London, Paris, Berlin, Warsaw, Rome effectively ending war and putting Europe in middle ages. If you think US will risk actual extinction in the name of revenge, I would suggest rethinking that. I guess the war effectively ends when British and French second strike capabilities wipe out all major Russian cities.Fair chance the US gets fucked by Russian second strike in the following confusion. No, in that scenario Russia would nuke some midsize border cities from the direction NATO advances, like in Finland and Poland. And probably also Ukraine. Then the war ends because no one else wants to die. I am sorry but have you seen the map? Russia is effectively more than twice the size of Europe. Also some numbers: Russia population density: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia#:~:text=As of the 2021 census,22 inhabitants/sq mi). 8.5 inhabitants per square kilometre Europe population density: https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/europe-population/#:~:text=Europe Population (LIVE)&text=The population density in Europe,87 people per mi2). The population density in Europe is 34 per square kilometre Russia's population density isn't so low. Hell, it's actually higher than that of the Kingdom of Denmark. Now you may argue that this is misleading because the Kingdom of Denmark includes Greenland which is mostly ice and the vast majority of people live in one area adjacent to Europe. To which I'd reply "didn't you just try to argue about the population density of Russia?" I wouldn't argue that though. Why would I? The simple fact is that any nuclear strike of Russia on Europe is devastating, while Europe nuclear strike on Russia is sort of a scratch thing. Europe area: 10.53 million square kilometers Russia area: Total 17,098,246 square kilometers Europe area - Russia area: 10,014,000 - 3,952,550 = 6061450 square kilometers Doesn't that put things into perspective? No, it doesn’t, because Europe includes Denmark so I win. First of all: I don't think anybody wins. Europe being reduced to Greenland doesn't seem like a "win"... I don’t know, seems like I win because Kingdom of Denmark Sorry buddy but you lose. Get Denmark’d. I am pretty sure you don't. Europe gets reduced to Greenland and Iceland, while Russia looses maybe Moscow and Leningrad. Hardly seems like an even trade...
Buddy you’ve already been Denmark’d. Continuing at this point feels kinda desperate. Take the L.
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On November 19 2024 10:51 Falling wrote:
Point being that the density is not evenly distributed, so the big population centres are nearly all clustered in the west of Russia.
Same thing with Canada actually. Who really cares how low Canadian population density is due to our vast land when you basically only need two major targets: lower mainland in the West and all along the Saint Lawrence lowlands. Maybe if you wanted to 'screw you, in particular' you throw a nuke each at Alberta's two big cities. Nuclear apocalypse without scratching hardly a percent of Canadian real estate. The moose and the beavers will have free rein, but Canada would be largely dead.
edit.
And for the record, if the missiles start flying, pretty sure Canada is catching some strays. They largely have to fly over us anyways and we at least used to be part of the integrated early warning system. Don't know if any of that still exists as technology moved on and everyone understandably thought we were done with the Cold War. But there it s.
Technically, the big population centers of Russia are actually quite spread out, with something like 10-15 cities of 500k+ population in the central / eastern parts of Russia -- it's the areas surrounding the big population centers that are basically empty beyond the Urals. Still, seems like a rather silly argument to be having; nobody wins in large-scale a nuclear exchange.
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Even a small scale nuclear exchange almost guarantees global famine and nasty ecological devastation across the globe. Most nuclear doctrine contains exploding a nuke into the atmosphere to release an emp wave that wipes most of the nation back to the industrial age on its own.
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The russian response does not have to be launching nuclear weapon by itself. It can be other things like providing better missiles to Iran's proxy to strike western / Israel's stuff in the middle east, arming North Korea etc.
Biden seems to be trying to make sure there is no peace deal of any kind between russia and ukraine. However, Trump can theoretically pull all support and let ukraine army to collapse, even though I don't think Trump will do that.
If the war drag on, may be the russian can get to Odessa, which Putin kind of said that during the interview with Tucker Carlson. Putin said Odessa was "historically Russian", for me that is a tacit implication that he want to take Odessa. Even though as of today, Odessa is not in serious threat of falling under russian control.
Ukraine may loss even more if the war keep getting drag on.
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Canada11440 Posts
Biden isn't limiting anything. There is no peace deal in the offing.
Russia wants a surrender all your lands; all your bases belong to us deal.
Ukraine wants a get the hell off our lands deal.
There is no peace to be had.
I think pulling support is indeed one of the ideas that Trump's people are floating. Trump's so-called 24 hour peace plan can only be a handful of things, and I think my guess is already correct. His first plan is to bully Ukraine into surrendering their currently stolen lands, freeze the lines. 'Peace" insofar as Vichy France was 'peace' in Europe. If you don't fight the Nazi, there is no war, big brain play. (And as we've seen with Crimea, this would only be a temporary 'peace'. The Russian army will reconstitute and in five years, they'll invade again and Republicans can blame Democrats. "Didn't happen on our watch." We've already seen this with Zelensky rejecting Trump's first forays into diplomacy.;
The second move is to threaten to or actually pull support. If everyone else doesn't step up, then the dictator's alliance forces Ukraine to capitulate. "Peace" again as the Ukraine is united under the brotherly reborn USSR.
Zelensky's been making moves trying to appeal to Trump's ego and isolationist tendencies. Between that and Putin possibly not doing what Trump wants sufficiently pissing off Trump's ego, maybe there's a chance to get Trump to double down to support Ukraine. But I'm not holding my breath.
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On November 19 2024 11:18 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2024 10:57 KwarK wrote:On November 19 2024 10:51 Razyda wrote:On November 19 2024 10:39 KwarK wrote:On November 19 2024 10:37 Razyda wrote:On November 19 2024 10:23 KwarK wrote:On November 19 2024 09:34 Razyda wrote:On November 17 2024 19:50 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On November 17 2024 13:01 Razyda wrote:On November 17 2024 01:00 Billyboy wrote:War strategy buffs, I have a strategy I'd like to propose and get your opinions on how it would work if they did it. + Show Spoiler +I have no expectation that this is actually going to happen, I just think it would help and I have not read any what ifs on this scenario. What it would do well and what it would do poorly I'm interested in hearing about. Why they would not do it not so much because I think we all know those I think Poland, the Baltics, Norway and Finland should all prepare for war and move their militaries to an obvious offensive position for "war games". Canada and Sweden prepare for taking the Artic. The rest of the countries that support Ukraine should also move their militaries as if to defend the NATO countries. At the same time they should remove all restrictions on Ukraine from using western made weapons and Ukraine should announce an massive conscription. I believe this would force Russia to slow their offense and defend against a possible attack. If they do not, it makes it painfully clear that their propaganda of fear of a NATO attack is complete horse shit as they are defending against offensive posturing. It would energize the Ukrainian people as they would feel supported and as if they had a real chance to defeat Russia. If Russia keeps going Poland, Finland and others could decide to take back their historic land (or threaten it) unless Russia returns to its pre 2014 boarders. They should also send words of support and promises to support any uprising anywhere in Russia. (and perhaps actually send military supplies). Also, of this would require firing any bullets or risking any troops. It would also be great practice for western militaries. Sure you are risking escalation, but Russia knows they can't fight everyone even with their tight allies of Iran and NK. I doubt their shadow allies helping them economically are going to enter. I don't think it would like instantly win the war or anything like that, but I think it would put immense pressure on Putin and his strategic staff. Waste huge amount of their resources, including time and planning, I don't think Russia would escalate because other than nukes they are maxed out and currently they could still turn back, and the powerbrokers can keep getting rich off their peoples cheap labour and selling resources abroad. The Russian people themselves would be all the sudden scared because Ukraine could and will hit them anywhere and all these other militaries who are fresh are perched right outside their boarders. All the places that hate Russia in Russia might also become emboldened. Tear my strategy apart, support it. Interested on how you think it would work. (not that you don't think they would do it, because I know and agree with that.) Great strategy. Putin then nukes London, Paris, Berlin, Warsaw, Rome effectively ending war and putting Europe in middle ages. If you think US will risk actual extinction in the name of revenge, I would suggest rethinking that. I guess the war effectively ends when British and French second strike capabilities wipe out all major Russian cities.Fair chance the US gets fucked by Russian second strike in the following confusion. No, in that scenario Russia would nuke some midsize border cities from the direction NATO advances, like in Finland and Poland. And probably also Ukraine. Then the war ends because no one else wants to die. I am sorry but have you seen the map? Russia is effectively more than twice the size of Europe. Also some numbers: Russia population density: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia#:~:text=As of the 2021 census,22 inhabitants/sq mi). 8.5 inhabitants per square kilometre Europe population density: https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/europe-population/#:~:text=Europe Population (LIVE)&text=The population density in Europe,87 people per mi2). The population density in Europe is 34 per square kilometre Russia's population density isn't so low. Hell, it's actually higher than that of the Kingdom of Denmark. Now you may argue that this is misleading because the Kingdom of Denmark includes Greenland which is mostly ice and the vast majority of people live in one area adjacent to Europe. To which I'd reply "didn't you just try to argue about the population density of Russia?" I wouldn't argue that though. Why would I? The simple fact is that any nuclear strike of Russia on Europe is devastating, while Europe nuclear strike on Russia is sort of a scratch thing. Europe area: 10.53 million square kilometers Russia area: Total 17,098,246 square kilometers Europe area - Russia area: 10,014,000 - 3,952,550 = 6061450 square kilometers Doesn't that put things into perspective? No, it doesn’t, because Europe includes Denmark so I win. First of all: I don't think anybody wins. Europe being reduced to Greenland doesn't seem like a "win"... I don’t know, seems like I win because Kingdom of Denmark Sorry buddy but you lose. Get Denmark’d. I am pretty sure you don't. Europe gets reduced to Greenland and Iceland, while Russia looses maybe Moscow and Leningrad. Hardly seems like an even trade... Edit: for explanation Leningrad = St Petersburg
You're delusional if you think NATO can't hit all Russian population centers.
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EPT
