EPTBut sure, that's a good point. Another huge difference (even bigger) is that the Russian propaganda is made on purpose and dictated from the top, while the examples from Reuters and BBC were probably a result of wishful thinking more than anything else.
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 727
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Elroi
Sweden5617 Posts
But sure, that's a good point. Another huge difference (even bigger) is that the Russian propaganda is made on purpose and dictated from the top, while the examples from Reuters and BBC were probably a result of wishful thinking more than anything else. | ||
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Razyda
1088 Posts
On September 18 2024 18:38 Elroi wrote: I don't think they use shovels in actual combat, right? But sure, that's a good point. Another huge difference (even bigger) is that the Russian propaganda is made on purpose and dictated from the top, while the examples from Reuters and BBC were probably a result of wishful thinking more than anything else. I think it is actually folding shovel (? not sure if thats correct translation) and it is rather common fighting tool, to the point that training on it was provided in National Service Army (if I remember correctly) in Poland. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17872 Posts
Huge ammo dump got struck in Toropets. | ||
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0x64
Finland4659 Posts
On September 18 2024 19:13 Manit0u wrote: https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1fjlcum/hundreds_of_tons_of_russian_ammunition_explode/ Huge ammo dump got struck in Toropets. Yeah, the satelitte image is sick huge... | ||
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0x64
Finland4659 Posts
On September 18 2024 18:53 Razyda wrote: I think it is actually folding shovel (? not sure if thats correct translation) and it is rather common fighting tool, to the point that training on it was provided in National Service Army (if I remember correctly) in Poland. Yeah same for Finland... As for training, it was pretty much, hold here, hit there, got it? Pretty much like insert bullet in enemy | ||
hexhaven
Finland966 Posts
On September 18 2024 18:38 Elroi wrote: I don't think they use shovels in actual combat, right? But sure, that's a good point. Another huge difference (even bigger) is that the Russian propaganda is made on purpose and dictated from the top, while the examples from Reuters and BBC were probably a result of wishful thinking more than anything else. It's less "Let's charge their positions armed with only shovels" and more "Oh shit this dude is right here and my gun is jammed/out of ammo/out of reach and I need to hit him to survive". It's a desperate move, but it's unlikely to be a typical thing. Doesn't mean that it never happens, of course. There's also a good chance that the reservists who the MoD base their information on are exaggerating a bit for dramatic effect. Like overall there's a huge difference between "We heard some people had to assault enemy positions with just small arms because there's some supply issues on this narrow part of the whole front" and "Russian soldiers are using nothing but shovels for a year and a half". You can read about the MPL-50 on the Wiki. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8281 Posts
On September 18 2024 18:53 Razyda wrote: I think it is actually folding shovel (? not sure if thats correct translation) and it is rather common fighting tool, to the point that training on it was provided in National Service Army (if I remember correctly) in Poland. Yeah, same in the Norwegian army. The foldable shovels are considered tertiary weapons, and whilst not a huge focus, is trained a little bit with. The amount of options I would have to exhaust before reaching for the damn shovel is enormous though. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17872 Posts
https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/1836302104723398865 And in other news, Armenia thwarts a coup organized by Russian-trained individuals. https://armenpress.am/en/article/1200109 | ||
KwarK
United States44449 Posts
A Ukrainian drone attack on a Russian missile facility early Wednesday threw up towering fireballs visible from space and thundering detonations that triggered earthquake monitors. Speaking to reporters early Wednesday, Tver Gov. Igor Rudenya said that all drones in the region were shot down and that there was a fire on the ground as a result of debris from a downed drone. As he spoke, loud explosions could be heard in the background. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ukraine-drone-attack-russia-ammo-depot-toropets-tver-blasts-quake-fire-rcna171601 | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7459 Posts
On September 19 2024 09:37 KwarK wrote: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ukraine-drone-attack-russia-ammo-depot-toropets-tver-blasts-quake-fire-rcna171601 Some of the workers there had a smoke break and that is where the fires and exlosions come from obviously On September 18 2024 21:26 Excludos wrote: Yeah, same in the Norwegian army. The foldable shovels are considered tertiary weapons, and whilst not a huge focus, is trained a little bit with. The amount of options I would have to exhaust before reaching for the damn shovel is enormous though. IMO "running away" is way higher on the list than using a shovel if you ask me. It's like 1. Use tank/ artillery/ heavy machinerie 2. Use AK / machinegun 3. Use small fire arm/ throwables/ Grenades 4. GTFO ... 199. Use knife 200. Use shovel | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On September 19 2024 16:22 Harris1st wrote: Some of the workers there had a smoke break and that is where the fires and exlosions come from obviously IMO "running away" is way higher on the list than using a shovel if you ask me. It's like 1. Use tank/ artillery/ heavy machinerie 2. Use AK / machinegun 3. Use small fire arm/ throwables/ Grenades 4. GTFO ... 199. Use knife 200. Use shovel Hey if it works for the Imperial Guard from Krieg in Warhammer 40K then it can work for anyone right? | ||
zatic
Zurich15366 Posts
It's wartime propaganda speech for not all missiles have been shot down and we have been hit. | ||
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Simberto
Germany12086 Posts
On September 19 2024 16:22 Harris1st wrote: Some of the workers there had a smoke break and that is where the fires and exlosions come from obviously IMO "running away" is way higher on the list than using a shovel if you ask me. It's like 1. Use tank/ artillery/ heavy machinerie 2. Use AK / machinegun 3. Use small fire arm/ throwables/ Grenades 4. GTFO ... 199. Use knife 200. Use shovel I think it is quite possible to be in a sitiuation where running away won't work at all. Like if the other guy jumps into your trench right in front of you or something. If you run, you just get shot in the back. | ||
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sertas
Sweden890 Posts
It's very rare for ukraine to state they shot down all missiles and drones, usualy they say the real number, like i remember they said like 40/100 missiles shot down in a strike earlier in the war, and nowadays its more like 80/100 shot down, and sometimes its 100% if its like 5 missiles and 30 drones. And sometimes its a lot worse than 80%, so I think the numbers are real. russia is super fake, always say shoot down 100% | ||
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0x64
Finland4659 Posts
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Simberto
Germany12086 Posts
On September 19 2024 20:57 0x64 wrote: Yeah, If they didn't shot them down, they would have gone in the middle of the forest, but they successfully managed to guide the debris so no trees were hurt. Technically speaking, a drone that blows up a munitions depot shot down and it's debris lead to a fire. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17872 Posts
On September 19 2024 16:22 Harris1st wrote: Some of the workers there had a smoke break and that is where the fires and exlosions come from obviously IMO "running away" is way higher on the list than using a shovel if you ask me. It's like 1. Use tank/ artillery/ heavy machinerie 2. Use AK / machinegun 3. Use small fire arm/ throwables/ Grenades 4. GTFO ... 199. Use knife 200. Use shovel Actually, shovel is a better weapon than a knife. Shovels in the military are made as a sort of multi-tool that you can use in lieu of an axe, pick axe etc. You have way more reach and force than with a knife. ![[image loading]](https://cqb.pl/images/UC2979.jpg) ![[image loading]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61DyWeqSiJL._AC_UF894,1000_QL80_.jpg) ![[image loading]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51ypq0XciEL.jpg) Hell, I'd take regular shovel over a knife any day of the week. Reach is everything in a close quarters fighting. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8281 Posts
On September 19 2024 20:03 Simberto wrote: I think it is quite possible to be in a sitiuation where running away won't work at all. Like if the other guy jumps into your trench right in front of you or something. If you run, you just get shot in the back. If the guy runs into your trench, your shovel is still likely folded away, so you won't have time to pack it out of your bag, extend it, twist the handle, and then start using it to defend yourself | ||
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Simberto
Germany12086 Posts
On September 19 2024 22:22 Excludos wrote: If the guy runs into your trench, your shovel is still likely folded away, so you won't have time to pack it out of your bag, extend it, twist the handle, and then start using it to defend yourself While this is quite fun, i am not sure if this thread is really the right place to discuss the merits of a shovel as a weapon in intricate detail. Especially if this discussion is done by a bunch of pasty nerds with zero combat experience like me. I am certain you can imagine a situation where you would use one, and a lot of situations where something else would be superior. | ||
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0x64
Finland4659 Posts
Also knowing the size of ballistic missiles that arrived from Iran, We can be pretty sure Americans know where they are stored. It's only a matter of range. Hence every kilometer in Kursk converts to a giant logistical headache. As routes and storage might require constant updating. Ukrainians are getting damn good with those drone, you got to admit. | ||
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