EPTRusso-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 604
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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sertas
Sweden890 Posts
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Dav1oN
Ukraine3164 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17872 Posts
On October 06 2023 04:42 zeo wrote: You mean the largest country in Europe after Russia which received more aid than the entire Marshal plan adjusted for inflation? I think you can do a lot better than this post  You mean the largest when it comes to area but nowhere near it when it comes to the population? Germany has twice the population of Ukraine and Poland has similar population while only having half the area. By what measure do you judge the country as being "large"? What counts most in war is manpower and economy and in those regards Ukraine isn't anywhere near the premier spots in Europe. 8th in population and 23rd in economy. Ukraine is a bit like most European countries' poor downtrodden cousin who's had an abusive father and is now trying to get out of it so we're glad to help. | ||
hexhaven
Finland966 Posts
On October 05 2023 22:05 KwarK wrote: “They’re not winning fast enough” Hey, at least he's more committed to his gimmick than Russia is to the Black Sea fleet. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4463 Posts
On October 06 2023 06:32 sertas wrote: 70k dead for ukraine and 130k dead for russia is still good numbers for ukraine and 70k dead for ukraine as video said they can keep this up for decades Decades? Very hard to see western support lasting decades considering the rate which support is dropping. https://www.ktbs.com/news/national/us-public-support-declines-for-providing-weapons-to-ukraine-poll-shows/video_472f1c40-87be-584d-950f-8b44074f666c.html According to a recent Reuters/Ipsos poll, only 41% of respondents felt that the U.S. should continue to "provide weapons to Ukraine.". 35% said that America should not provide the war-torn country with weapons, while the rest of respondents were unsure. In May of this year, 46% of Americans supported sending arms to Ukraine, and only 29% were opposed I'm not seeing decades worth of support from these numbers, the trend is clear both in America and Europe. | ||
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zeo
Serbia6344 Posts
On October 06 2023 06:32 sertas wrote: 70k dead for ukraine and 130k dead for russia is still good numbers for ukraine and 70k dead for ukraine as video said they can keep this up for decades Its not about the number 70k. Its about the US changing its prediction from 15k to 70k dead since the offensive started. Thats a difference of over 50k in a few months for a few sq km. Again, we dont know how much the Americans know, was it 15k or 200k dead before the offencive. But this is a drastic change in estimate and there is a reason they think Kiev has 4x as many dead. Its still 50k dead. | ||
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0x64
Finland4659 Posts
On October 06 2023 17:27 zeo wrote: Its not about the number 70k. Its about the US changing its prediction from 15k to 70k dead since the offensive started. That's a difference of over 50k in a few months for a few sq km. Again, we dont know how much the Americans know, was it 15k or 200k dead before the offensive. But this is a drastic change in estimate and there is a reason they think Kiev has 4x as many dead. Its still 50k dead. You are looking at this all wrong, if they had not stopped the offensive at any cost, all Ukraine would have fallen. When they first failed to defend the first attack, the cost was incredibly high for civilians. Mass torture and execution in the streets. Technically, Ukraine cannot do anything else than what they are doing. Russia doesn't need anything in Ukraine. Imagine if NATO troops took half of Serbia, what would you do? I don't think at that point, the number of casualty would matter. Remember that what is dead may never die but rises again and stronger. You can think what kind of society Russia is that the choice to go fight in Ukraine is the better alternative. This will be Russia's Vietnam, Afganistan... Western way is wonderful. You can't imagine how well our vision of the world works better. Take Germany after world war 2. Once they were kicked out from other country, did any territory end up being taken, or did Germany became an integral part of Europe... With a slight delay because of Russia of course, because why not? Also you realise that the whole purpose of every single weapon in Europe today has always been to defend against Russia? That's why we care so much about ethics. A better world is possible, but you can chose everyday a worse world just to be right alone in your corner. | ||
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sertas
Sweden890 Posts
On October 06 2023 17:17 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Decades? Very hard to see western support lasting decades considering the rate which support is dropping. https://www.ktbs.com/news/national/us-public-support-declines-for-providing-weapons-to-ukraine-poll-shows/video_472f1c40-87be-584d-950f-8b44074f666c.html I'm not seeing decades worth of support from these numbers, the trend is clear both in America and Europe. Decades in terms of manpower, equipment who knows, europe seems to be united in support anyway for at least 3+ more years. I don't think the russian economy can sustain another 2 years, and that's probably the only way other than a complete millitary victory to win the war | ||
zatic
Zurich15366 Posts
Biden wavering, US support on a lifeline. Euros still somewhat united but also there Scholz denying long range missiles. Putin's out of holding until Trump seems tremendously more likely than just 2 weeks ago. | ||
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ZeroByte13
801 Posts
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Sent.
Poland9336 Posts
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zatic
Zurich15366 Posts
It seems very unlikely that Biden gets additional support from Congress within the next 40 days. And then the government is out of money again and needs to renegotiate - again very unlikely that the outcome is fundamentally different from the one this week with regards to support to Ukraine. So, as it looks right now there will be US support to the tune of 5bn for the rest of 2023. Not nothing, but barely a lifeline. With regards to Trump: I am not saying that it is super likely he will return to office. But it is the one out Putin has. IF he can hold out until then a Trump election is Putin's best chance to walk away with something he can call a win. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17872 Posts
On October 06 2023 20:15 zatic wrote: With regards to Trump: I am not saying that it is super likely he will return to office. But it is the one out Putin has. IF he can hold out until then a Trump election is Putin's best chance to walk away with something he can call a win. Didn't he lose some trial recently though? If it was the one about leaking national security files and such wouldn't this disqualify him from running for the office? Not sure if he'd even be eligible while the trials aren't over since there might be some doubts about giving him the security clearance. | ||
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ZeroByte13
801 Posts
I do not care for US Dems vs Reps infighting, but this guy is a walking disaster on so many levels. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22705 Posts
On October 06 2023 20:15 zatic wrote: Funding for Ukraine still has broad support even among Republicans in the House. It was just that McCarthy wanted to appease the far-right elements badly enough to trying and remove it.Does it? Biden had promised another 24bn in military aid in 2023 to Ukraine, that is now off the table. As far as I know the Pentagon has still funding for military support up to 5bn. After that it's over. It seems very unlikely that Biden gets additional support from Congress within the next 40 days. And then the government is out of money again and needs to renegotiate - again very unlikely that the outcome is fundamentally different from the one this week with regards to support to Ukraine. So, as it looks right now there will be US support to the tune of 5bn for the rest of 2023. Not nothing, but barely a lifeline. With regards to Trump: I am not saying that it is super likely he will return to office. But it is the one out Putin has. IF he can hold out until then a Trump election is Putin's best chance to walk away with something he can call a win. I see no reason to assume additional aid is off the table. | ||
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Simberto
Germany12086 Posts
On October 06 2023 20:32 ZeroByte13 wrote: Giving Trump any type of security clearance or access to any secret documents looks like a dumbest thing possible. I do not care for US Dems vs Reps infighting, but this guy is a walking disaster on so many levels. Absolutely agreed, and that should be obvious to any sane person. I am also quite certain that Trump wouldn't pass even the simplest background check for the lowest security clearance. And yet, about half the US views stuff differently. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24512 Posts
On October 06 2023 20:36 Gorsameth wrote: Funding for Ukraine still has broad support even among Republicans in the House. It was just that McCarthy wanted to appease the far-right elements badly enough to trying and remove it. I see no reason to assume additional aid is off the table. It doesn't even have to be "off the table" for the current and future delays to be extremely costly for Ukraine. Republicans basically said "if you want to keep the government open you have to scrap Ukraine aid" and Democrats took the deal. It bought the US ~45 days of keeping the government open and now their next negotiation will likely be with someone even more opposed to more aid to Ukraine, that will also be threatened with removal if they try to make a deal including more aid for Ukraine. I personally wouldn't be surprised to see Ukraine funding end up like lots of stuff in the US where the infighting/system is the excuse for inaction until it is too late for the thing being fought about to get fixed. Could also end up one of those things Democrats would rather exploit the political expediency of blaming Republicans for the fallout than stop them. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17872 Posts
On October 06 2023 20:32 ZeroByte13 wrote: Giving Trump any type of security clearance or access to any secret documents looks like a dumbest thing possible. I do not care for US Dems vs Reps infighting, but this guy is a walking disaster on so many levels. Fortunately in the US you need money to win elections and it seems Trump won't have any quite soon. Trump Corp is now forbidden from doing business  | ||
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StorrZerg
United States13922 Posts
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