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On September 20 2023 00:48 KwarK wrote:
They may be able to cobble parts together from broken ones to make working ones, or just put it on the Belorussian border as static artillery. I’m firmly of the opinion that it’s better to offer Ukraine what you have and give a truthful accounting of the condition than to preemptively assert it’s no good and refuse to hand it over.
Take the example of the Tu-141. Unfit for purpose but still had a good enough engine for a one way trip. Strap some explosives on it and that’s no longer a recon aircraft, it’s a cruise missile. Ukraine has shown great ingenuity in taking obsolete equipment and instead of asking what it can’t do asking what it can still do.
We can at least take solace in the fact that Russian hardware is certainly not superior to that of NATO and must therefore face similar problems. It helps understand why Russian battle tanks in reserve are hardly being used. They can't be in much better shape than the ones promised to Ukraine. Not that Russia needs a lot of them anymore for their predominantly defensive posture anyway.
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On September 19 2023 21:14 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2023 20:39 zeo wrote:On September 19 2023 20:23 schaf wrote:On September 19 2023 20:14 zeo wrote:On September 19 2023 17:42 Excludos wrote:
Jesus, this again
Guys! Totally evidance that Ukraine are the bad guys! One of their air defence missiles, that they chose to fire, fell down on civilians! Ukraine are the bad guys! They're choosing to do this! Please go back the articles from the 6th and 7th day of this month covering this situation and pay attention to the headlines and speculation surrounding it. Note that the video posted to Zelenskys official account was later digitally altered to not show the reflections of the missile comming in when posted to certain MSM websites. Also, note the complete lack of any mention of this 'heinous crime' one day after it became clear even then that it was a Ukrainian missile and no mention of any eye witness testimony. Please note this article in The Australian posted at the exact same time as the New York Times article today: Australian doctor Craig Jurisevic exposes horrors of Russian attack Damning evidence has emerged confirming the Russian military used outlawed flechettes – tiny steel nails with barbed tail fins deemed illegal by the International Criminal Court – in its attack against civilians at a Ukrainian market that claimed 18 lives and left 55 people injured.
The Australian has obtained photographs and video from inside Ukraine showing the shocking impact of the flechettes, which had been placed inside missiles used by Russia in its September 6 attack on the busy market in the city of Kostyantynivka.
The Australian has obtained photographs and video from inside Ukraine showing the shocking impact of the flechettes, which had been placed inside missiles used by Russia in its September 6 attack on the busy market in the city of Kostyantynivka.
Missiles filled with flechettes were also used in Russian follow-up attacks on ambulances tending to injured soldiers and civilians, bolstering pleas from the Ukrainian military for the Australian government to provide armoured ambulances in addition to Bushmaster vehicles already given. https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/australian-doctor-craig-jurisevic-exposes-horrors-of-russian-attack/news-story/49b60bb96795717303a09109eb386d01?amp&nk=bbb498506911942b2579e95f87372570-1695072825So, who is lying here? You have persecution paranoia. Nobody said you were lying, only that the fault still lies with Russia. One source with multiple investigative journalists on the field writes an article going into detail with evidance regarding a Ukrainian missile landing in a marketplace. They go to the launch site, they show the damage from the missile thats constant with a BUK missile ect. The other article posted at the same time states that its a Russian missile deliberately filled with spikes to inflict as much damage as possible on civillians with no evidance presented, just that they claim that they have it. Two contradictory articles posted at the same time. One of them is lying and being deliberately deceitful, i didnt mention anything about me. It really doesn't matter that Ukraine fired the missile. Ukraine didn't target the market. They used an AA missile which missed its actual target and tragically landed in a busy market place. The target it was trying to hit was a missile aimed somewhere else in Ukraine by Russia. Russia is ultimately responsible for every Ukrainian casualty in this war because *they invaded*.
They probably should have said that instead of lying and trying a coverup.
It's not quite Pat Tillman vibes, but it's close imo.
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On September 20 2023 02:01 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2023 21:14 Acrofales wrote:On September 19 2023 20:39 zeo wrote:On September 19 2023 20:23 schaf wrote:On September 19 2023 20:14 zeo wrote:On September 19 2023 17:42 Excludos wrote:
Jesus, this again
Guys! Totally evidance that Ukraine are the bad guys! One of their air defence missiles, that they chose to fire, fell down on civilians! Ukraine are the bad guys! They're choosing to do this! Please go back the articles from the 6th and 7th day of this month covering this situation and pay attention to the headlines and speculation surrounding it. Note that the video posted to Zelenskys official account was later digitally altered to not show the reflections of the missile comming in when posted to certain MSM websites. Also, note the complete lack of any mention of this 'heinous crime' one day after it became clear even then that it was a Ukrainian missile and no mention of any eye witness testimony. Please note this article in The Australian posted at the exact same time as the New York Times article today: Australian doctor Craig Jurisevic exposes horrors of Russian attack Damning evidence has emerged confirming the Russian military used outlawed flechettes – tiny steel nails with barbed tail fins deemed illegal by the International Criminal Court – in its attack against civilians at a Ukrainian market that claimed 18 lives and left 55 people injured.
The Australian has obtained photographs and video from inside Ukraine showing the shocking impact of the flechettes, which had been placed inside missiles used by Russia in its September 6 attack on the busy market in the city of Kostyantynivka.
The Australian has obtained photographs and video from inside Ukraine showing the shocking impact of the flechettes, which had been placed inside missiles used by Russia in its September 6 attack on the busy market in the city of Kostyantynivka.
Missiles filled with flechettes were also used in Russian follow-up attacks on ambulances tending to injured soldiers and civilians, bolstering pleas from the Ukrainian military for the Australian government to provide armoured ambulances in addition to Bushmaster vehicles already given. https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/australian-doctor-craig-jurisevic-exposes-horrors-of-russian-attack/news-story/49b60bb96795717303a09109eb386d01?amp&nk=bbb498506911942b2579e95f87372570-1695072825So, who is lying here? You have persecution paranoia. Nobody said you were lying, only that the fault still lies with Russia. One source with multiple investigative journalists on the field writes an article going into detail with evidance regarding a Ukrainian missile landing in a marketplace. They go to the launch site, they show the damage from the missile thats constant with a BUK missile ect. The other article posted at the same time states that its a Russian missile deliberately filled with spikes to inflict as much damage as possible on civillians with no evidance presented, just that they claim that they have it. Two contradictory articles posted at the same time. One of them is lying and being deliberately deceitful, i didnt mention anything about me. It really doesn't matter that Ukraine fired the missile. Ukraine didn't target the market. They used an AA missile which missed its actual target and tragically landed in a busy market place. The target it was trying to hit was a missile aimed somewhere else in Ukraine by Russia. Russia is ultimately responsible for every Ukrainian casualty in this war because *they invaded*. They probably should have said that instead of lying and trying a coverup. It's not quite Pat Tillman vibes, but it's close imo.
Yeah, I don't think anyone would disagree on that, unlike Zeo, who seems more worried about some optics than others. It's rather weird to be so worried about Ukraine lying to score media sympathy points while being invaded and bombed, rather than the massacres that Russia has been doing purposefully with their indiscriminate bombing.
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United States42008 Posts
Ruble up to 98 to the dollar. Paying people in rubles to not convert their rubles doesn’t seem to be working. Not sure what they’ll try next. Paying more is only a stopgap.
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On September 20 2023 02:40 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2023 02:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 19 2023 21:14 Acrofales wrote:On September 19 2023 20:39 zeo wrote:On September 19 2023 20:23 schaf wrote:On September 19 2023 20:14 zeo wrote:On September 19 2023 17:42 Excludos wrote:
Jesus, this again
Guys! Totally evidance that Ukraine are the bad guys! One of their air defence missiles, that they chose to fire, fell down on civilians! Ukraine are the bad guys! They're choosing to do this! Please go back the articles from the 6th and 7th day of this month covering this situation and pay attention to the headlines and speculation surrounding it. Note that the video posted to Zelenskys official account was later digitally altered to not show the reflections of the missile comming in when posted to certain MSM websites. Also, note the complete lack of any mention of this 'heinous crime' one day after it became clear even then that it was a Ukrainian missile and no mention of any eye witness testimony. Please note this article in The Australian posted at the exact same time as the New York Times article today: Australian doctor Craig Jurisevic exposes horrors of Russian attack Damning evidence has emerged confirming the Russian military used outlawed flechettes – tiny steel nails with barbed tail fins deemed illegal by the International Criminal Court – in its attack against civilians at a Ukrainian market that claimed 18 lives and left 55 people injured.
The Australian has obtained photographs and video from inside Ukraine showing the shocking impact of the flechettes, which had been placed inside missiles used by Russia in its September 6 attack on the busy market in the city of Kostyantynivka.
The Australian has obtained photographs and video from inside Ukraine showing the shocking impact of the flechettes, which had been placed inside missiles used by Russia in its September 6 attack on the busy market in the city of Kostyantynivka.
Missiles filled with flechettes were also used in Russian follow-up attacks on ambulances tending to injured soldiers and civilians, bolstering pleas from the Ukrainian military for the Australian government to provide armoured ambulances in addition to Bushmaster vehicles already given. https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/australian-doctor-craig-jurisevic-exposes-horrors-of-russian-attack/news-story/49b60bb96795717303a09109eb386d01?amp&nk=bbb498506911942b2579e95f87372570-1695072825So, who is lying here? You have persecution paranoia. Nobody said you were lying, only that the fault still lies with Russia. One source with multiple investigative journalists on the field writes an article going into detail with evidance regarding a Ukrainian missile landing in a marketplace. They go to the launch site, they show the damage from the missile thats constant with a BUK missile ect. The other article posted at the same time states that its a Russian missile deliberately filled with spikes to inflict as much damage as possible on civillians with no evidance presented, just that they claim that they have it. Two contradictory articles posted at the same time. One of them is lying and being deliberately deceitful, i didnt mention anything about me. It really doesn't matter that Ukraine fired the missile. Ukraine didn't target the market. They used an AA missile which missed its actual target and tragically landed in a busy market place. The target it was trying to hit was a missile aimed somewhere else in Ukraine by Russia. Russia is ultimately responsible for every Ukrainian casualty in this war because *they invaded*. They probably should have said that instead of lying and trying a coverup. It's not quite Pat Tillman vibes, but it's close imo. Yeah, I don't think anyone would disagree on that, unlike Zeo, who seems more worried about some optics than others. It's rather weird to be so worried about Ukraine lying to score media sympathy points while being invaded and bombed, rather than the massacres that Russia has been doing purposefully with their indiscriminate bombing.
It's not a gotcha they think it is.. literally no one cares about it except russian propagandaists, it's not reported anywhere. Also saying ukraine is corrupt is not a gotcha, evreone knows its one of the most corrupt places on earth, at least they're taking baby steps to fix it, russia is just corrupt full stop without even trying to fix it
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The shit about that missile hitting the market from a few weeks ago never occurred to me that it could have been a *deliberate* Russian attack. I just know that's not how the Russians operate.
If I'm just some guy who knows my media and government lie about everything 100% of the time, then I'm sure pretty much everyone with 2 braincells to rub together could have, and did figure it out.
But the NYT having to admit a modicum of truth is too much for the Kiev regime, apparently:
Zelensky’s top aide accuses NYT of encouraging ‘conspiracy theories’
The newspaper found that evidence 'strongly suggests' Ukraine is to blame for the deaths of 15 civilians in the Donbass city of Konstantinovka
https://www.rt.com/russia/583219-podoliak-missile-nyt-conspiracy/
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Nahhhhh Russia would never *deliberately* attack civilians. It must've been *unintentional* /s
Waffle, congrats on addressing nothing; people are on board with the possibility that Ukraine launched the missile. As clearly stated, it's still Russia's fault.
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On September 19 2023 21:27 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2023 21:14 Acrofales wrote:On September 19 2023 20:39 zeo wrote:On September 19 2023 20:23 schaf wrote:On September 19 2023 20:14 zeo wrote:On September 19 2023 17:42 Excludos wrote:
Jesus, this again
Guys! Totally evidance that Ukraine are the bad guys! One of their air defence missiles, that they chose to fire, fell down on civilians! Ukraine are the bad guys! They're choosing to do this! Please go back the articles from the 6th and 7th day of this month covering this situation and pay attention to the headlines and speculation surrounding it. Note that the video posted to Zelenskys official account was later digitally altered to not show the reflections of the missile comming in when posted to certain MSM websites. Also, note the complete lack of any mention of this 'heinous crime' one day after it became clear even then that it was a Ukrainian missile and no mention of any eye witness testimony. Please note this article in The Australian posted at the exact same time as the New York Times article today: Australian doctor Craig Jurisevic exposes horrors of Russian attack Damning evidence has emerged confirming the Russian military used outlawed flechettes – tiny steel nails with barbed tail fins deemed illegal by the International Criminal Court – in its attack against civilians at a Ukrainian market that claimed 18 lives and left 55 people injured.
The Australian has obtained photographs and video from inside Ukraine showing the shocking impact of the flechettes, which had been placed inside missiles used by Russia in its September 6 attack on the busy market in the city of Kostyantynivka.
The Australian has obtained photographs and video from inside Ukraine showing the shocking impact of the flechettes, which had been placed inside missiles used by Russia in its September 6 attack on the busy market in the city of Kostyantynivka.
Missiles filled with flechettes were also used in Russian follow-up attacks on ambulances tending to injured soldiers and civilians, bolstering pleas from the Ukrainian military for the Australian government to provide armoured ambulances in addition to Bushmaster vehicles already given. https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/australian-doctor-craig-jurisevic-exposes-horrors-of-russian-attack/news-story/49b60bb96795717303a09109eb386d01?amp&nk=bbb498506911942b2579e95f87372570-1695072825So, who is lying here? You have persecution paranoia. Nobody said you were lying, only that the fault still lies with Russia. One source with multiple investigative journalists on the field writes an article going into detail with evidance regarding a Ukrainian missile landing in a marketplace. They go to the launch site, they show the damage from the missile thats constant with a BUK missile ect. The other article posted at the same time states that its a Russian missile deliberately filled with spikes to inflict as much damage as possible on civillians with no evidance presented, just that they claim that they have it. Two contradictory articles posted at the same time. One of them is lying and being deliberately deceitful, i didnt mention anything about me. It really doesn't matter that Ukraine fired the missile. Ukraine didn't target the market. They used an AA missile which missed its actual target and tragically landed in a busy market place. The target it was trying to hit was a missile aimed somewhere else in Ukraine by Russia. Russia is ultimately responsible for every Ukrainian casualty in this war because *they invaded*. It actually really does matter who fires a missile into a busy market. The interesting thing about the truth is that it allows us to make informed decisions and form our own informed opinions on various subjects.
So it's Russia's fault that the Ukrainian drones landed in civilian areas of I believe it was Moscow(?) due to Russia jamming them which caused that destruction. Got it.
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Playing the devil's advocate for a couple of minutes, I would say that there is an important difference between an AA missile hitting a market by accident and the enemy targeting said market on purpose. I can't blame the media for assuming it was a Russian attack though since targeting the civilian population (the power grid during the winter for example) was clearly their plan.
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On September 20 2023 11:57 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2023 21:27 zeo wrote:On September 19 2023 21:14 Acrofales wrote:On September 19 2023 20:39 zeo wrote:On September 19 2023 20:23 schaf wrote:On September 19 2023 20:14 zeo wrote:On September 19 2023 17:42 Excludos wrote:
Jesus, this again
Guys! Totally evidance that Ukraine are the bad guys! One of their air defence missiles, that they chose to fire, fell down on civilians! Ukraine are the bad guys! They're choosing to do this! Please go back the articles from the 6th and 7th day of this month covering this situation and pay attention to the headlines and speculation surrounding it. Note that the video posted to Zelenskys official account was later digitally altered to not show the reflections of the missile comming in when posted to certain MSM websites. Also, note the complete lack of any mention of this 'heinous crime' one day after it became clear even then that it was a Ukrainian missile and no mention of any eye witness testimony. Please note this article in The Australian posted at the exact same time as the New York Times article today: Australian doctor Craig Jurisevic exposes horrors of Russian attack Damning evidence has emerged confirming the Russian military used outlawed flechettes – tiny steel nails with barbed tail fins deemed illegal by the International Criminal Court – in its attack against civilians at a Ukrainian market that claimed 18 lives and left 55 people injured.
The Australian has obtained photographs and video from inside Ukraine showing the shocking impact of the flechettes, which had been placed inside missiles used by Russia in its September 6 attack on the busy market in the city of Kostyantynivka.
The Australian has obtained photographs and video from inside Ukraine showing the shocking impact of the flechettes, which had been placed inside missiles used by Russia in its September 6 attack on the busy market in the city of Kostyantynivka.
Missiles filled with flechettes were also used in Russian follow-up attacks on ambulances tending to injured soldiers and civilians, bolstering pleas from the Ukrainian military for the Australian government to provide armoured ambulances in addition to Bushmaster vehicles already given. https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/australian-doctor-craig-jurisevic-exposes-horrors-of-russian-attack/news-story/49b60bb96795717303a09109eb386d01?amp&nk=bbb498506911942b2579e95f87372570-1695072825So, who is lying here? You have persecution paranoia. Nobody said you were lying, only that the fault still lies with Russia. One source with multiple investigative journalists on the field writes an article going into detail with evidance regarding a Ukrainian missile landing in a marketplace. They go to the launch site, they show the damage from the missile thats constant with a BUK missile ect. The other article posted at the same time states that its a Russian missile deliberately filled with spikes to inflict as much damage as possible on civillians with no evidance presented, just that they claim that they have it. Two contradictory articles posted at the same time. One of them is lying and being deliberately deceitful, i didnt mention anything about me. It really doesn't matter that Ukraine fired the missile. Ukraine didn't target the market. They used an AA missile which missed its actual target and tragically landed in a busy market place. The target it was trying to hit was a missile aimed somewhere else in Ukraine by Russia. Russia is ultimately responsible for every Ukrainian casualty in this war because *they invaded*. It actually really does matter who fires a missile into a busy market. The interesting thing about the truth is that it allows us to make informed decisions and form our own informed opinions on various subjects. So it's Russia's fault that the Ukrainian drones landed in civilian areas of I believe it was Moscow(?) due to Russia jamming them which caused that destruction. Got it.
Its a Ukrainian drone. The missile was Ukrainian. If you are running away from the police and you run over a random pedestrian it is not the fault of the police because they layed down the spikes.
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On September 20 2023 16:36 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2023 11:57 Gahlo wrote:On September 19 2023 21:27 zeo wrote:On September 19 2023 21:14 Acrofales wrote:On September 19 2023 20:39 zeo wrote:On September 19 2023 20:23 schaf wrote:On September 19 2023 20:14 zeo wrote:On September 19 2023 17:42 Excludos wrote:
Jesus, this again
Guys! Totally evidance that Ukraine are the bad guys! One of their air defence missiles, that they chose to fire, fell down on civilians! Ukraine are the bad guys! They're choosing to do this! Please go back the articles from the 6th and 7th day of this month covering this situation and pay attention to the headlines and speculation surrounding it. Note that the video posted to Zelenskys official account was later digitally altered to not show the reflections of the missile comming in when posted to certain MSM websites. Also, note the complete lack of any mention of this 'heinous crime' one day after it became clear even then that it was a Ukrainian missile and no mention of any eye witness testimony. Please note this article in The Australian posted at the exact same time as the New York Times article today: Australian doctor Craig Jurisevic exposes horrors of Russian attack Damning evidence has emerged confirming the Russian military used outlawed flechettes – tiny steel nails with barbed tail fins deemed illegal by the International Criminal Court – in its attack against civilians at a Ukrainian market that claimed 18 lives and left 55 people injured.
The Australian has obtained photographs and video from inside Ukraine showing the shocking impact of the flechettes, which had been placed inside missiles used by Russia in its September 6 attack on the busy market in the city of Kostyantynivka.
The Australian has obtained photographs and video from inside Ukraine showing the shocking impact of the flechettes, which had been placed inside missiles used by Russia in its September 6 attack on the busy market in the city of Kostyantynivka.
Missiles filled with flechettes were also used in Russian follow-up attacks on ambulances tending to injured soldiers and civilians, bolstering pleas from the Ukrainian military for the Australian government to provide armoured ambulances in addition to Bushmaster vehicles already given. https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/australian-doctor-craig-jurisevic-exposes-horrors-of-russian-attack/news-story/49b60bb96795717303a09109eb386d01?amp&nk=bbb498506911942b2579e95f87372570-1695072825So, who is lying here? You have persecution paranoia. Nobody said you were lying, only that the fault still lies with Russia. One source with multiple investigative journalists on the field writes an article going into detail with evidance regarding a Ukrainian missile landing in a marketplace. They go to the launch site, they show the damage from the missile thats constant with a BUK missile ect. The other article posted at the same time states that its a Russian missile deliberately filled with spikes to inflict as much damage as possible on civillians with no evidance presented, just that they claim that they have it. Two contradictory articles posted at the same time. One of them is lying and being deliberately deceitful, i didnt mention anything about me. It really doesn't matter that Ukraine fired the missile. Ukraine didn't target the market. They used an AA missile which missed its actual target and tragically landed in a busy market place. The target it was trying to hit was a missile aimed somewhere else in Ukraine by Russia. Russia is ultimately responsible for every Ukrainian casualty in this war because *they invaded*. It actually really does matter who fires a missile into a busy market. The interesting thing about the truth is that it allows us to make informed decisions and form our own informed opinions on various subjects. So it's Russia's fault that the Ukrainian drones landed in civilian areas of I believe it was Moscow(?) due to Russia jamming them which caused that destruction. Got it. Its a Ukrainian drone. The missile was Ukrainian. If you are running away from the police and you run over a random pedestrian it is not the fault of the police because they layed down the spikes.
And the missile was a Russian made missile, if they had western missile, it would not have hit civilians. The lower quality of Russian weapon is to blame.
Unlike you, we do not turn a blind eye to all the civilians Russian army killed. If you could turn a blind eye over civilian death equally and you were not biased, you'd be America's number one fan.
I too like to be in Team Russia-Iran-North Korea. The promesse they make for all of us is wonderful. Meanwhile, feel free to keep enjoying your western quality of life with your fantasy.
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On September 20 2023 16:36 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2023 11:57 Gahlo wrote:On September 19 2023 21:27 zeo wrote:On September 19 2023 21:14 Acrofales wrote:On September 19 2023 20:39 zeo wrote:On September 19 2023 20:23 schaf wrote:On September 19 2023 20:14 zeo wrote:On September 19 2023 17:42 Excludos wrote:
Jesus, this again
Guys! Totally evidance that Ukraine are the bad guys! One of their air defence missiles, that they chose to fire, fell down on civilians! Ukraine are the bad guys! They're choosing to do this! Please go back the articles from the 6th and 7th day of this month covering this situation and pay attention to the headlines and speculation surrounding it. Note that the video posted to Zelenskys official account was later digitally altered to not show the reflections of the missile comming in when posted to certain MSM websites. Also, note the complete lack of any mention of this 'heinous crime' one day after it became clear even then that it was a Ukrainian missile and no mention of any eye witness testimony. Please note this article in The Australian posted at the exact same time as the New York Times article today: Australian doctor Craig Jurisevic exposes horrors of Russian attack Damning evidence has emerged confirming the Russian military used outlawed flechettes – tiny steel nails with barbed tail fins deemed illegal by the International Criminal Court – in its attack against civilians at a Ukrainian market that claimed 18 lives and left 55 people injured.
The Australian has obtained photographs and video from inside Ukraine showing the shocking impact of the flechettes, which had been placed inside missiles used by Russia in its September 6 attack on the busy market in the city of Kostyantynivka.
The Australian has obtained photographs and video from inside Ukraine showing the shocking impact of the flechettes, which had been placed inside missiles used by Russia in its September 6 attack on the busy market in the city of Kostyantynivka.
Missiles filled with flechettes were also used in Russian follow-up attacks on ambulances tending to injured soldiers and civilians, bolstering pleas from the Ukrainian military for the Australian government to provide armoured ambulances in addition to Bushmaster vehicles already given. https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/australian-doctor-craig-jurisevic-exposes-horrors-of-russian-attack/news-story/49b60bb96795717303a09109eb386d01?amp&nk=bbb498506911942b2579e95f87372570-1695072825So, who is lying here? You have persecution paranoia. Nobody said you were lying, only that the fault still lies with Russia. One source with multiple investigative journalists on the field writes an article going into detail with evidance regarding a Ukrainian missile landing in a marketplace. They go to the launch site, they show the damage from the missile thats constant with a BUK missile ect. The other article posted at the same time states that its a Russian missile deliberately filled with spikes to inflict as much damage as possible on civillians with no evidance presented, just that they claim that they have it. Two contradictory articles posted at the same time. One of them is lying and being deliberately deceitful, i didnt mention anything about me. It really doesn't matter that Ukraine fired the missile. Ukraine didn't target the market. They used an AA missile which missed its actual target and tragically landed in a busy market place. The target it was trying to hit was a missile aimed somewhere else in Ukraine by Russia. Russia is ultimately responsible for every Ukrainian casualty in this war because *they invaded*. It actually really does matter who fires a missile into a busy market. The interesting thing about the truth is that it allows us to make informed decisions and form our own informed opinions on various subjects. So it's Russia's fault that the Ukrainian drones landed in civilian areas of I believe it was Moscow(?) due to Russia jamming them which caused that destruction. Got it. Its a Ukrainian drone. The missile was Ukrainian. If you are running away from the police and you run over a random pedestrian it is not the fault of the police because they layed down the spikes.
Well if the police unprovoked killed everyone of the runaways families and destroyed their homes then yes, it's the polices fault
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On September 20 2023 10:56 captainwaffles wrote:
The shit about that missile hitting the market from a few weeks ago never occurred to me that it could have been a *deliberate* Russian attack. I just know that's not how the Russians operate.
Noooo, they would never target civilians! Except for all the times they've done it of course. But aside from that, they would never! Because I know in my heart of hearts, that's not how they operate!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_civilians_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
Well, at least if I close my eyes and put my fingers into my ears, while shouting "lalalalala!", I won't see or hear about it!
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On September 20 2023 15:38 Elroi wrote:
Playing the devil's advocate for a couple of minutes, I would say that there is an important difference between an AA missile hitting a market by accident and the enemy targeting said market on purpose. I can't blame the media for assuming it was a Russian attack though since targeting the civilian population (the power grid during the winter for example) was clearly their plan. I think the difference is important if the enemy wasn't attacking civilians on purpose on numerous occasions.
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On September 20 2023 17:26 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2023 10:56 captainwaffles wrote:
The shit about that missile hitting the market from a few weeks ago never occurred to me that it could have been a *deliberate* Russian attack. I just know that's not how the Russians operate. Noooo, they would never target civilians! Except for all the times they've done it of course. But aside from that, they would never! Because I know in my heart of hearts, that's not how they operate! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_civilians_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_UkraineWell, at least if I close my eyes and put my fingers into my ears, while shouting "lalalalala!", I won't see or hear about it!
I believe that trying to minimize the horror of what Russia has done is pure gratuitous evil.
I don't know which is worse, being paid to post this shit or posting it for free.
Meanwhile, deep inside, CaptainWaffles and Zeo are entertaining me. Letting them post here is the only way to remind ourself that not everyone had a successful education and can have logical constructed thoughts even when they did have the potential. Wars exist because there will always be people that are unable to grasp the basic "killing is bad, let's avoid it" concept.
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On September 20 2023 18:16 0x64 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2023 17:26 Excludos wrote:On September 20 2023 10:56 captainwaffles wrote:
The shit about that missile hitting the market from a few weeks ago never occurred to me that it could have been a *deliberate* Russian attack. I just know that's not how the Russians operate. Noooo, they would never target civilians! Except for all the times they've done it of course. But aside from that, they would never! Because I know in my heart of hearts, that's not how they operate! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_civilians_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_UkraineWell, at least if I close my eyes and put my fingers into my ears, while shouting "lalalalala!", I won't see or hear about it! I believe that trying to minimize the horror of what Russia has done is pure gratuitous evil. I don't know which is worse, being paid to post this shit or posting it for free.
This.
The discussion about casualty numbers was quite depressing. So Putins folly killed about half a million people and displaced and traumatised millions. For what? It's just regime preservation at this point, i don't think there is an endgame anymore or does anyone really believe Ukraine will be given up by its allies or that Russia is able to outproduce the western military industrial complex? Again, we have barely lifted a finger.
I just hope that old little man gets Gaddafied so the killing can end. For Ukraines sake and for Russias as well. Your emperor has no clothes.
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On September 20 2023 16:36 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2023 11:57 Gahlo wrote:On September 19 2023 21:27 zeo wrote:On September 19 2023 21:14 Acrofales wrote:On September 19 2023 20:39 zeo wrote:On September 19 2023 20:23 schaf wrote:On September 19 2023 20:14 zeo wrote:On September 19 2023 17:42 Excludos wrote:
Jesus, this again
Guys! Totally evidance that Ukraine are the bad guys! One of their air defence missiles, that they chose to fire, fell down on civilians! Ukraine are the bad guys! They're choosing to do this! Please go back the articles from the 6th and 7th day of this month covering this situation and pay attention to the headlines and speculation surrounding it. Note that the video posted to Zelenskys official account was later digitally altered to not show the reflections of the missile comming in when posted to certain MSM websites. Also, note the complete lack of any mention of this 'heinous crime' one day after it became clear even then that it was a Ukrainian missile and no mention of any eye witness testimony. Please note this article in The Australian posted at the exact same time as the New York Times article today: Australian doctor Craig Jurisevic exposes horrors of Russian attack Damning evidence has emerged confirming the Russian military used outlawed flechettes – tiny steel nails with barbed tail fins deemed illegal by the International Criminal Court – in its attack against civilians at a Ukrainian market that claimed 18 lives and left 55 people injured.
The Australian has obtained photographs and video from inside Ukraine showing the shocking impact of the flechettes, which had been placed inside missiles used by Russia in its September 6 attack on the busy market in the city of Kostyantynivka.
The Australian has obtained photographs and video from inside Ukraine showing the shocking impact of the flechettes, which had been placed inside missiles used by Russia in its September 6 attack on the busy market in the city of Kostyantynivka.
Missiles filled with flechettes were also used in Russian follow-up attacks on ambulances tending to injured soldiers and civilians, bolstering pleas from the Ukrainian military for the Australian government to provide armoured ambulances in addition to Bushmaster vehicles already given. https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/australian-doctor-craig-jurisevic-exposes-horrors-of-russian-attack/news-story/49b60bb96795717303a09109eb386d01?amp&nk=bbb498506911942b2579e95f87372570-1695072825So, who is lying here? You have persecution paranoia. Nobody said you were lying, only that the fault still lies with Russia. One source with multiple investigative journalists on the field writes an article going into detail with evidance regarding a Ukrainian missile landing in a marketplace. They go to the launch site, they show the damage from the missile thats constant with a BUK missile ect. The other article posted at the same time states that its a Russian missile deliberately filled with spikes to inflict as much damage as possible on civillians with no evidance presented, just that they claim that they have it. Two contradictory articles posted at the same time. One of them is lying and being deliberately deceitful, i didnt mention anything about me. It really doesn't matter that Ukraine fired the missile. Ukraine didn't target the market. They used an AA missile which missed its actual target and tragically landed in a busy market place. The target it was trying to hit was a missile aimed somewhere else in Ukraine by Russia. Russia is ultimately responsible for every Ukrainian casualty in this war because *they invaded*. It actually really does matter who fires a missile into a busy market. The interesting thing about the truth is that it allows us to make informed decisions and form our own informed opinions on various subjects. So it's Russia's fault that the Ukrainian drones landed in civilian areas of I believe it was Moscow(?) due to Russia jamming them which caused that destruction. Got it. Its a Ukrainian drone. The missile was Ukrainian. If you are running away from the police and you run over a random pedestrian it is not the fault of the police because they layed down the spikes.
The equivalent is the police performing a pit maneuver that sends the car into the pedestrian.
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On September 20 2023 20:20 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2023 16:36 zeo wrote:On September 20 2023 11:57 Gahlo wrote:On September 19 2023 21:27 zeo wrote:On September 19 2023 21:14 Acrofales wrote:On September 19 2023 20:39 zeo wrote:On September 19 2023 20:23 schaf wrote:On September 19 2023 20:14 zeo wrote:On September 19 2023 17:42 Excludos wrote:
Jesus, this again
Guys! Totally evidance that Ukraine are the bad guys! One of their air defence missiles, that they chose to fire, fell down on civilians! Ukraine are the bad guys! They're choosing to do this! Please go back the articles from the 6th and 7th day of this month covering this situation and pay attention to the headlines and speculation surrounding it. Note that the video posted to Zelenskys official account was later digitally altered to not show the reflections of the missile comming in when posted to certain MSM websites. Also, note the complete lack of any mention of this 'heinous crime' one day after it became clear even then that it was a Ukrainian missile and no mention of any eye witness testimony. Please note this article in The Australian posted at the exact same time as the New York Times article today: Australian doctor Craig Jurisevic exposes horrors of Russian attack Damning evidence has emerged confirming the Russian military used outlawed flechettes – tiny steel nails with barbed tail fins deemed illegal by the International Criminal Court – in its attack against civilians at a Ukrainian market that claimed 18 lives and left 55 people injured.
The Australian has obtained photographs and video from inside Ukraine showing the shocking impact of the flechettes, which had been placed inside missiles used by Russia in its September 6 attack on the busy market in the city of Kostyantynivka.
The Australian has obtained photographs and video from inside Ukraine showing the shocking impact of the flechettes, which had been placed inside missiles used by Russia in its September 6 attack on the busy market in the city of Kostyantynivka.
Missiles filled with flechettes were also used in Russian follow-up attacks on ambulances tending to injured soldiers and civilians, bolstering pleas from the Ukrainian military for the Australian government to provide armoured ambulances in addition to Bushmaster vehicles already given. https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/australian-doctor-craig-jurisevic-exposes-horrors-of-russian-attack/news-story/49b60bb96795717303a09109eb386d01?amp&nk=bbb498506911942b2579e95f87372570-1695072825So, who is lying here? You have persecution paranoia. Nobody said you were lying, only that the fault still lies with Russia. One source with multiple investigative journalists on the field writes an article going into detail with evidance regarding a Ukrainian missile landing in a marketplace. They go to the launch site, they show the damage from the missile thats constant with a BUK missile ect. The other article posted at the same time states that its a Russian missile deliberately filled with spikes to inflict as much damage as possible on civillians with no evidance presented, just that they claim that they have it. Two contradictory articles posted at the same time. One of them is lying and being deliberately deceitful, i didnt mention anything about me. It really doesn't matter that Ukraine fired the missile. Ukraine didn't target the market. They used an AA missile which missed its actual target and tragically landed in a busy market place. The target it was trying to hit was a missile aimed somewhere else in Ukraine by Russia. Russia is ultimately responsible for every Ukrainian casualty in this war because *they invaded*. It actually really does matter who fires a missile into a busy market. The interesting thing about the truth is that it allows us to make informed decisions and form our own informed opinions on various subjects. So it's Russia's fault that the Ukrainian drones landed in civilian areas of I believe it was Moscow(?) due to Russia jamming them which caused that destruction. Got it. Its a Ukrainian drone. The missile was Ukrainian. If you are running away from the police and you run over a random pedestrian it is not the fault of the police because they layed down the spikes. The equivalent is the police performing a pit maneuver that sends the car into the pedestrian.
Or you are running away from a crazy murderer with an axe, and accidentally run into someone while dodging around the corner.
The prime blame should still be with the crazy murderer forcing you to move unsafely.
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I think we can stop trying to convince captainwaffles that he's wrong. Someone who justifies murder the way he does can't be convinced or otherwise saved. He's completely gone.
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EPT
