Russo-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 587

The Sept. 6 missile strike on Kostiantynivka in eastern Ukraine was one of the deadliest in the country in months, killing at least 15 civilians and injuring more than 30 others. The weapon’s payload of metal fragments struck a market, piercing windows and walls and wounding some victims beyond recognition.
Less than two hours later, President Volodymyr Zelensky blamed Russian “terrorists” for the attack, and many media outlets followed suit.
But evidence collected and analyzed by The New York Times, including missile fragments, satellite imagery, witness accounts and social media posts, strongly suggests the catastrophic strike was the result of an errant Ukrainian air defense missile fired by a Buk launch system.

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Security camera footage shows that the missile flew into Kostiantynivka from the direction of Ukrainian-held territory, not from behind Russian lines.
As the sound of the approaching missile is heard, at least four pedestrians appear to simultaneously turn their heads toward the incoming sound. They face the camera — in the direction of Ukrainian-held territory. Moments before it strikes, the missile’s reflection is visible as it passes over two parked cars, showing it traveling from the northwest.

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In the aftermath of the attack, Ukrainian authorities said Russian forces used a missile fired by an S-300 air defense system, which Russia has used both to intercept aircraft and strike targets on the ground. But an S-300 missile carries a different warhead from the one that exploded in Kostiantynivka.
Several witnesses either heard or saw Ukrainian forces firing surface-to-air missiles from Druzhkivka toward Kostiantynivka at the time of the market strike. And evidence collected at the market shows that the missile came from that direction.
Why the missile, which has a maximum range of just over 17 miles, may have landed in Kostiantynivka is unclear — though it’s possible it malfunctioned and crashed before hitting its intended target.
In any case, at such a short range — less than 10 miles — the missile is most likely to have landed with unspent fuel in its rocket motor, which would detonate or burn upon impact, offering a possible explanation for the widespread scorch marks at the market.

On September 19 2023 17:41 Magic Powers wrote:
There's no way Ukraine has sustained 270 thousand deaths. I'm also highly skeptical of the 230 thousand from Russia. The most recent estimate of Russian deaths are in the 100 to 150 thousand region, and for Ukrainian deaths it's somewhere below that.

They're using the term "death certificate" regarding family members, not "deaths" regarding soldiers. I don't know the procedure, but maybe someone can clarify if certificates will typically be given out in a quantity that is greater than actual death records? Since individual soldiers typically have several family members and the certificates are sent to each of their households?

On September 19 2023 17:41 Magic Powers wrote:
There's no way Ukraine has sustained 270 thousand deaths. I'm also highly skeptical of the 230 thousand from Russia. The most recent estimate of Russian deaths are in the 100 to 150 thousand region, and for Ukrainian deaths it's somewhere below that.

They're using the term "death certificate" regarding family members, not "deaths" regarding soldiers. I don't know the procedure, but maybe someone can clarify if certificates will typically be given out in a quantity that is greater than actual death records? Since individual soldiers typically have several family members and the certificates are sent to each of their households?

On September 19 2023 17:48 Excludos wrote:


You misunderstand, the numbers are all for Russia. Ukraine's number for Russian deaths (not casualties) are 270k. These numbers from the death certificates from Russia are 230k.

I also don't know the procedure for death certificates in Russia, but sources seem to suggest they should be fairly accurate in terms of representation of the numbers of Russian deaths. If anything a bit lower as numbers will be a few months old due to bureaucracy, and not every death equals a family members requesting a death certificate.

On September 19 2023 17:42 Excludos wrote:
Jesus, this again

Guys! Totally evidance that Ukraine are the bad guys! One of their air defence missiles, that they chose to fire, fell down on civilians! Ukraine are the bad guys! They're choosing to do this!

Damning evidence has emerged confirming the Russian military used outlawed flechettes – tiny steel nails with barbed tail fins deemed illegal by the Internat­ional Criminal Court – in its ­attack against civilians at a Ukrainian market that claimed 18 lives and left 55 people injured.

The Australian has obtained photographs and video from inside Ukraine showing the shocking impact of the flechettes, which had been placed inside missiles used by Russia in its September 6 attack on the busy market in the city of Kostyantynivka.

The Australian has obtained photographs and video from inside Ukraine showing the shocking impact of the flechettes, which had been placed inside missiles used by Russia in its September 6 attack on the busy market in the city of Kostyantynivka.
Missiles filled with flechettes were also used in Russian follow-up attacks on ambulances tending to injured soldiers and civilians, bolstering pleas from the Ukrainian military for the Australian government to provide armoured ambulances in addition to Bushmaster vehicles already given.

On September 19 2023 20:14 zeo wrote:

Please go back the articles from the 6th and 7th day of this month covering this situation and pay attention to the headlines and speculation surrounding it. Note that the video posted to Zelenskys official account was later digitally altered to not show the reflections of the missile comming in when posted to certain MSM websites.

Also, note the complete lack of any mention of this 'heinous crime' one day after it became clear even then that it was a Ukrainian missile and no mention of any eye witness testimony.

Please note this article in The Australian posted at the exact same time as the New York Times article today:

Australian doctor Craig Jurisevic exposes horrors of Russian attack


https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/australian-doctor-craig-jurisevic-exposes-horrors-of-russian-attack/news-story/49b60bb96795717303a09109eb386d01?amp&nk=bbb498506911942b2579e95f87372570-1695072825

So, who is lying here?

On September 19 2023 20:23 schaf wrote:

You have persecution paranoia. Nobody said you were lying, only that the fault still lies with Russia.

On September 19 2023 20:39 zeo wrote:

One source with multiple investigative journalists on the field writes an article going into detail with evidance regarding a Ukrainian missile landing in a marketplace. They go to the launch site, they show the damage from the missile thats constant with a BUK missile ect. The other article posted at the same time states that its a Russian missile deliberately filled with spikes to inflict as much damage as possible on civillians with no evidance presented, just that they claim that they have it.

Two contradictory articles posted at the same time. One of them is lying and being deliberately deceitful, i didnt mention anything about me.

On September 19 2023 21:14 Acrofales wrote:


It really doesn't matter that Ukraine fired the missile. Ukraine didn't target the market. They used an AA missile which missed its actual target and tragically landed in a busy market place. The target it was trying to hit was a missile aimed somewhere else in Ukraine by Russia. Russia is ultimately responsible for every Ukrainian casualty in this war because *they invaded*.