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captainwaffles
United States1050 Posts
On August 14 2023 14:49 KwarK wrote: You literally believe everything you see on youtube, don't you? please don't derail the topic, I was banned for 2 days because I answered a question someone asked. | ||
KwarK
United States44448 Posts
On August 14 2023 14:51 captainwaffles wrote: please don't derail the topic, I was banned for 2 days because I answered a question someone asked. You were banned for uncritically repeating whatever insanity you've got fed to you from your highly curated YouTube feed to TL without even the slightest hint of self awareness or doubt. And you're back and immediately straight back to it. But sure, I'll counter your youtube video with an entirely baseless assertion that not only have no Ukrainians died during the counteroffensive but actually thousands of previously dead soldiers have come back to life. Unfortunately I don't have a youtube video to back up that assertion so you'll just have to take me at my word. This is fun and productive. | ||
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KwarK
United States44448 Posts
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zatic
Zurich15366 Posts
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zeo
Serbia6344 Posts
On August 14 2023 14:40 captainwaffles wrote: So, us people on the internet can say things, we have our own points of view about stuff, but what are the guys, 40 thousand of whom have died since the "counter offensive" have to say about the current state of things, ie, charging into defensive lines across the Donbas, territories and peoples that *voted* to join the Russian Federation, because they didn't want anything to do with the US backed Maiden coup in 2014? > "NATO is sending us here to DIE" Ukrainian commanders admit they are cannon fodder for NATO You could compare the situation now to WWI in 1918. Everything was fine / a stalemate until it wasnt. The Entente had just lost their powerful ally to the east and the lines hadnt moved in a long time, things were looking grim yet it was the German and Austro-Hungarian societies that collapsed first under pressure. There is only so much Ukrainian society can take even with rabid nationalism and harsh suppression of dissent, the wheels come off the cart eventually. This cannot last forever, something has to give. | ||
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remboroy25
New Zealand1 Post
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KwarK
United States44448 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On August 14 2023 15:49 zeo wrote: You could compare the situation now to WWI in 1918. Everything was fine / a stalemate until it wasnt. The Entente had just lost their powerful ally to the east and the lines hadnt moved in a long time, things were looking grim yet it was the German and Austro-Hungarian societies that collapsed first under pressure. There is only so much Ukrainian society can take even with rabid nationalism and harsh suppression of dissent, the wheels come off the cart eventually. This cannot last forever, something has to give. https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1690824108269780992 Why do the wheels have to fall off? There’s little indication that anything is liable to shift in the near thru medium term to pull this out of a long, long protracted stalemate. Russian civic society doesn’t look remotely close to collapsing and enacting the kind of regime change that may see a different course, Ukrainians don’t look particularly interested in shifting course either. | ||
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zatic
Zurich15366 Posts
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KwarK
United States44448 Posts
Ukraine will surely fold, just as Russia did in WW1. Russia will surely endure, just as it previously didn’t in WW1. It all makes sense once you realize that Russia has nothing in common with Russia. | ||
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a_ch
Russian Federation240 Posts
On August 13 2023 01:31 JimmiC wrote: I'm not accusing anyone posting here of this (though it could be true I have no idea) but the people I know personally who have moved from anti covid to anti vax, to fringe minority, to freedom convoy and now to pro Russia (what a strange trip) are very anti communism and very anti Nazi, but also believe that Nazi and communism are close and on opposite ends because they have decide Right means freedom and Left is authoritarianism. So many times when they are arguing that Russia is not Fascist it is because they think fascist is left. If I can convince them that fascism is authoritarianism with right wing ideology then we end that argument. -could be that the common thing between all these ideas is simply the general rebellious attitude. I'll never stop being amazed, how individual qualities have their parallels on the level of societies and nations, and that "parent-child" relationship could be seen in, for example, how governments treat their citizens. | ||
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KwarK
United States44448 Posts
On August 14 2023 15:18 KwarK wrote: Ruble over 100 and showing no signs of slowing. Lost about 1% of its purchasing power on each trading day in the last week. 20% in the last 90 days. A third in the last 180 days. 101 | ||
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pmp10
3401 Posts
On August 14 2023 16:19 WombaT wrote: Why do the wheels have to fall off? There’s little indication that anything is liable to shift in the near thru medium term to pull this out of a long, long protracted stalemate. To be fair, not all political collapses are easy to see in advance. Few people saw wagner mutiny coming and that could have turned very badly. I'm just not sure why would Ukrainian downfall be more likely than Russia's. | ||
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zeo
Serbia6344 Posts
On August 14 2023 16:38 KwarK wrote: He uses the example of WW1 in which the Russian Empire fell apart under the stresses of attritional warfare and the western industrial complex proved able to to outlast its enemies as an example of why the western backed forces will surely succumb to Russian attrition. Ukraine will surely fold, just as Russia did in WW1. Russia will surely endure, just as it previously didn’t in WW1. It all makes sense once you realize that Russia has nothing in common with Russia. One country is fine on its own. The other died as a sovriegn country that can function on its own more than a year ago. Its corpse has been reanimated with injections of aid totaling more than the entire Marshal plan after WW2 in todays money. 5 million people left the country after Feb 2022 (with 1.5million Ukrainians going to Russia) and the unemployment rate is still at 20%. The take here being that a society can suffer as long as you can keep injecting aid to prolong the suffering. How do you imagine life is like in the European Utopia? When all is said and done something tells me the population left in Ukraine will point its finger at you. | ||
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KwarK
United States44448 Posts
On August 14 2023 17:12 zeo wrote: One country is fine on its own. The other died as a sovriegn country that can function on its own more than a year ago. Its corpse has been reanimated with injections of aid totaling more than the entire Marshal plan after WW2 in todays money. 5 million people left the country after Feb 2022 (with 1.5million Ukrainians going to Russia) and the unemployment rate is still at 20%. The take here being that a society can suffer as long as you can keep injecting aid to prolong the suffering. How do you imagine life is like in the European Utopia? When all is said and done something tells me the population left in Ukraine will point its finger at you. Europe isn’t causing the suffering. As always your nonsensical attempts to play the champion of the Ukrainians ring hollow as you’re advocating for their suffering. Europe isn’t prolonging it, Russia is. They can stop at any time. You should just drop this angle. You’ve tried it a few times but it’s just entirely unconvincing given everything we know about you. You’re not going to persuade anyone that you’re really motivated out of a concern for the safety of the Ukrainian people. Not after all your gloating at their suffering. Not after all your cheerleading of the invasion forces. | ||
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Dav1oN
Ukraine3164 Posts
On August 14 2023 16:27 zatic wrote: It's hilarious as usual that zeo predicts the collapse of society and and it's not in the country that had rogue military forces march on the capital with the stated goal to depose the ruler. Good point. Which society is closer to a collapse in you make a comparison side by side considering last 10 for example In Ukraine I see no markers of a collapse, in Ukraine it's fine to speak openly, to protest and make occasional Maidans if something rly goes wrong. Having a public dialogue and ability to show disagreement is a good sign Would you ever live in a country where a single form of a protest is when an armed mercenary group is marching across the land with no consequences? That's clearly a bad sign. The other forms of protest will result either death or exile/jail. The choice is clear I think | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
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0x64
Finland4659 Posts
But they can't form their own opinion. Like which would be a better leader for Russia, putin or prigozhin? Should there be political opposition in Russia? For how long would you put Navalny to Prison? All those questions are supposed to be answered from your heart, not based on some youtube rant. We got hundreds of question that have value for us to understand better the cultural difference. There is clearly a discussion to be had, but not the one where we go "your propaganda is stronger than ours" I think I have already explained here the famous Eastern Propaganda Paradox which dictates that "Western propaganda is so strong that only us are able to see through it, those poor westerner are brainwashed" -> "Our propaganda is weaker, we are able to know what is propaganda because we suck at propaganda" It is simple, but it makes you feel so smart for not falling for Western propaganda. | ||
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zeo
Serbia6344 Posts
On August 14 2023 17:22 KwarK wrote: Europe isn’t causing the suffering. As always your nonsensical attempts to play the champion of the Ukrainians ring hollow as you’re advocating for their suffering. Europe isn’t prolonging it, Russia is. They can stop at any time. You should just drop this angle. You’ve tried it a few times but it’s just entirely unconvincing given everything we know about you. You’re not going to persuade anyone that you’re really motivated out of a concern for the safety of the Ukrainian people. Not after all your gloating at their suffering. Not after all your cheerleading of the invasion forces. My concern is not for the Maidanists that made their bed and are now sleeping in it. Rather for the normal people not allowed to live normal lives because of them. Should they have stood up against them before it got to this? Yes. But the inheritors of Ukraine won't be the rich draft dogers and criminals happy to send other people to die instead of themselves. It will be the people sent to die instead of them, and there will be a lot of soul searching about who is to blame. And not a lot of undestanding for those that are to blame. I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens. | ||
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Nezgar
Germany535 Posts
On August 14 2023 18:36 zeo wrote: My concern is not for the Maidanists that made their bed and are now sleeping in it. Rather for the normal people not allowed to live normal lives because of them. Should they have stood up against them before it got to this? Yes. But the inheritors of Ukraine won't be the rich draft dogers and criminals happy to send other people to die instead of themselves. It will be the people sent to die instead of them, and there will be a lot of soul searching about who is to blame. And not a lot of undestanding for those that are to blame. I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens. You are such a vile person. User was warned for this post | ||
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