EPTRusso-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 476
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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. | ||
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Kreuger
Sweden1008 Posts
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Sent.
Poland9336 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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JoinTheRain
Bulgaria409 Posts
Anyway, I feel like Prigozhin is crazier than Putin so to have him in charge of their nuclear arsenal doesn't seem preferable. I mean I strongly disapprove of both but Putin seems to me to be the lesser evil albeit not by much. We'll just have to wait and see. I'm in shock. | ||
KwarK
United States44450 Posts
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Aeromi
France14463 Posts
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Kreuger
Sweden1008 Posts
"And now Prigozhin: “There were negotiations, but no deal”" Yea, Luka is probably full of shit | ||
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KwarK
United States44450 Posts
On June 25 2023 02:28 Kreuger wrote: https://twitter.com/olliecarroll/status/1672657227847483392?cxt=HHwWgIC2jd-4vLYuAAAA "And now Prigozhin: “There were negotiations, but no deal”" Yea, Luka is probably full of shit Third option. Prigozhin tells Luka that there’s a deal hoping to create more chaos in the information space. | ||
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Mafe
Germany5966 Posts
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Kreuger
Sweden1008 Posts
On June 25 2023 02:30 KwarK wrote: Third option. Prigozhin tells Luka that there’s a deal hoping to create more chaos in the information space. Its possible, either way theres no deal to be had atm. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16129 Posts
On June 25 2023 02:27 KwarK wrote: Progozhin is a liar and him turning back makes no sense, he wins or he dies. There is no deescalation to be had, though I’d believe that he promised some. Everything that any one of the major players here says has major spin to try and draw public support to them and away from the other sides. Progozhin wants to make this look like a clean "strictly business" thing between him and the officials in the Russian government. He doesn't want to make civilians panic that there's going to be carnage in the streets. Putin wants to downplay how bad this actually is, and wants to make sure that no one else gets any bright ideas. Lukashenko, i don't know, wants to make it look like he's involved somehow because he needs to stay relevant. You can't trust anything any of them say, although in Proghozhin's case you can at least trust him when he says that he has an axe to grind with Russian leadership. That part at least is indisputable at this point. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5914 Posts
On June 25 2023 02:20 Vindicare605 wrote: You're missing a key factor here. Wagner doesn't have any air power. ANY air power at all. That's all Russian Military. And the Russians haven't been using most of their air power in Ukraine because they can't fly missions safely due to how much air defense the Ukrainians have. They have plenty of air power sitting at bases in Russia waiting for orders to fly. There's mixed reports from twitter about Wagner already shooting down helicopters and more airstrikes on the convoy (it's hard to tell what kind of strikes these are or where they happened) but a single convoy on a highway that has no air cover would make a very easy target for Helicopter and Jet strikes. If Wagner can actually GET to Moscow I think things will get very crazy, but from how this is stacked up on paper, I don't think they have a chance of actually making it all the way to Moscow unless something else happens like Russian Airforce units defect or something. Did Wagner lose all their aircrafts? Because they had both fighter jets and helicopters. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22705 Posts
On June 25 2023 02:23 [Phantom] wrote: Kyiv resisted because they were being invaded by a butchering foreign powerWhat I think it’s just that there is a lot of miss information on where the troops are and what are their motives. This being a coup doesn’t make any sense. And people are letting their excitement of Russia possibly losing cloud their judgment. I just read a Reddit comment that’s sums it up nicely I said a couple of post ago that this doesn’t make sense as a coup but maybe as a way to get more control of the military and not only of his mercenary group. Or maybe something else but a coup makes no sense. Like another poster just said they don’t even have any air support. And NATO sure as hell won’t be supplying them with anti air weapons like they’ve done with ukraine Moscow isn't going to resist. The people are not going to throw themselves in front of vehicles to save Putin. They just want to live to see next week. Wagner could absolutely 'take' Moscow is no one is willing to lay down their lives to stop him. Holding it ofcourse is an entirely different matter but the image of Wagner troops standing in front of the Kremlin with their flag flying from the towers would be a massive blow to Putin. Prig has seen enough people fall out of windows to know that if he lost the internal power struggle with the MoD that he was next. His option was fight or die. He is fighting. If you corner a wild animal you shouldn't act surprised that he lashes out rather then accept his fate and wait for death. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
In what world would either allow that to happen? I mean this is not a scenario Putin would want in any shape or form, he essentially just proved how powerless he is but also a coward as well. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
On June 25 2023 02:20 Vindicare605 wrote: You're missing a key factor here. Wagner doesn't have any air power. ANY air power at all. That's all Russian Military. And the Russians haven't been using most of their air power in Ukraine because they can't fly missions safely due to how much air defense the Ukrainians have. They have plenty of air power sitting at bases in Russia waiting for orders to fly. There's mixed reports from twitter about Wagner already shooting down helicopters and more airstrikes on the convoy (it's hard to tell what kind of strikes these are or where they happened) but a single convoy on a highway that has no air cover would make a very easy target for Helicopter and Jet strikes. If Wagner can actually GET to Moscow I think things will get very crazy, but from how this is stacked up on paper, I don't think they have a chance of actually making it all the way to Moscow unless something else happens like Russian Airforce units defect or something. Does Moscow have enough air power to actually stop the convoy in any meaningful capacity? They can't just bomb/level their own cities, Putin presumably would want to avoid that at almost all costs. While Wagner is traveling on the highway it could work, but once they reach the suburbs of Moscow, it's a no-go | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
Members of PMC Wagner Group had reportedly crossed the borders of Moscow Oblast as of 1700 local time on June 24 and have been advancing further, Russian Telegram channels reported on June 24. proukrainian source but still, the civil war is being broadcasted live on local russian Telegram media; "Wagnerites" movements are tracked live locally.They are said to be in the town of Barabanovo, which is two hours away from the Russian capital city of Moscow. Before that, the Wagnerite column was spotted on the M4 highway between the town of Yelets in Lipetsk Oblast and the town of Yefremov in Tula Oblast (the distance between them is about 80 kilometers). | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On June 25 2023 02:44 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: None of this makes sense. So Putin had to be rescued by a Vassal puppet state via diplomacy because Moscow could not be defended, meanwhile the PMC and it's ruler goes back with everything and in an even stronger position? In what world would either allow that to happen? I mean this is not a scenario Putin would want in any shape or form, he essentially just proved how powerless he is but also a coward as well. It doesn't make sense because it's fake. Prigozhin knows he's all-in and he's not stupid enough to fall for any shenanigans. He's a warlord for crying out loud, he understands deception better than anyone. | ||
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KwarK
United States44450 Posts
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TheCheapSkate
Slovenia317 Posts
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[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
This is not a coup attempt you’re being played | ||
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