EPTRusso-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 468
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
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ZeroByte13
781 Posts
Not that it's driven by top brass. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5739 Posts
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
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ZeroByte13
781 Posts
They're officially labeled national traitors and their every action now will be used against them later if it fails. Many of them will be trialed for treason, probably. Looks like a very risky gambit that went wrong and now they're desperate and dangerous. Unless - and I don't know if this can possibly be true - they expected this outcome and were prepared for it. Then things might get really spicy and unpredictable. | ||
zatic
Zurich15359 Posts
The troops needed to counter a force of 25k with armor and air defense are all in Ukraine. I suppose the air force could largely contain Wagner to Rostov region and prevent a march on Moscow , but they are not going to take back territory from Wagner. Rosguardia doesn't have the heavy equipment and even if supplied would take a lot of effort to match a battle hardened Wagner force. Which means either pull troops out of Ukraine, or lose Rostov - a major logistics hub for the war in Ukraine. Either way fucks Russia's ability to withstand future Ukrainian offensives. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5739 Posts
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ZeroByte13
781 Posts
And what do we have here..? | ||
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
I still feel like Wagner will get bombed to oblivion on the highways going north but Prigozhin claimed to have shot down several helicopters and says some pilots refused to airstrike him, but who knows. Now unconfirmed footage of a Russian aircraft being shot down in Voronez | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5739 Posts
On June 24 2023 17:58 ZeroByte13 wrote: Caesar was a pretty wise and rational guy, from what I know. And what do we have here..? We have a military commander, highly popular with the people, engaged in a foreign military adventure, whose activity had tacit support from the government but whose actions were illegal according to the law. Said commander was ordered to give up the command of his troops and was likely to face criminal charges, so he decided to march on the capital instead. | ||
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Dav1oN
Ukraine3164 Posts
 Sweet sweet karma swings backRemember how it started? What we are witnessing live is a final collapse of the last empire in Europe (USSR), the only question how bloody/chaotic and long it might be. What a great news for Ukraine! | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22055 Posts
On June 24 2023 17:45 ZeroByte13 wrote: Supposedly for the last day Wagner members have been talking to their families. They planned this and likely knew it could turn sideways.I wonder how Wagner troops feel right now and what do they think. They're officially labeled national traitors and their every action now will be used against them later if it fails. Many of them will be trialed for treason, probably. Looks like a very risky gambit that went wrong and now they're desperate and dangerous. Unless - and I don't know if this can possibly be true - they expected this outcome and were prepared for it. Then things might get really spicy and unpredictable. I assume the hope was that Putin would side with Wagner against the MoD, Prig certainly gave Putin plenty of room to do so but surely you don't undertake an act like this without considering what your doing if Putin doesn't pick you side. | ||
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ZeroByte13
781 Posts
On June 24 2023 18:03 maybenexttime wrote: I didn't mean many other aspects do not fit the historic precedent.We have a military commander, highly popular with the people, engaged in a foreign military adventure, whose activity had tacit support from the government but whose actions were illegal according to the law. Said commander was ordered to give up the command of his troops and was likely to face criminal charges, so he decided to march on the capital instead. But outcome of this (if it's successful) might be very different. | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
On June 24 2023 18:04 Dav1oN wrote: So we are entering another interesting chapter Sweet sweet karma swings backRemember how it started? What we are witnessing live is a final collapse of the last empire in Europe (USSR), the only question how bloody/chaotic and long it might be. What a great news for Ukraine! Don't celebrate yet, I think the worst result for Ukraine would be a quick victory for Wagner which then mobilizes the whole of Russia to fight Ukraine. | ||
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ZeroByte13
781 Posts
If you think Wagner's leader as a president of WMD-owning country is a great idea for everyone - I'm not so sure about this. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5739 Posts
On June 24 2023 18:08 ZeroByte13 wrote: I didn't mean many other aspects do not fit the historic precedent. But outcome of this (if it's successful) might be very different. Fair enough. Hopefully both sides bleed each other out without too many civilian casualties. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11720 Posts
On June 24 2023 17:48 maybenexttime wrote: Does anyone else see the parallels between this and Caesar's march on Rome? ;-) While there may be some parallels, there are also a lot of differences, which is a good thing. Firstly, Caesar had to actually win in Gaul before doing this. No matter what Prigozhin tries to claim, he didn't win in Ukraine, especially not as convincingly as Caesar did in Gaul. This is important, because winning in Gaul is what gave Caesar his cred. His soldiers got rich, and Rome got rich and powerful. As much as Prigozhin wants to be that guy, he clearly isn't. His troops barely took half a city, and lots of them died for that. Furthermore, the last thing we should want is a modern-day Caesar in Russia. Caesar was a genocidal dictator starting wars of aggression. He was just also good at PR. What Caesar did in Gaul was absurdly horrific by modern standards. On June 24 2023 18:14 maybenexttime wrote: Fair enough. Hopefully both sides bleed each other out without too many civilian casualties. Historically, that is not how civil wars in Russia work. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5739 Posts
Edit: Also, I wholeheartedly agree with you on Caesar. Like I said, Putin winning but being severely weakened is probably the best case scenario. Someone like Prigozhin is probably more likely to use nukes, although maybe his public persona is all theatrics and he's in it purely for money. | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
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