Russo-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 341

On January 09 2023 02:05 KwarK wrote:
It’s just the old “Russians are unfamiliar with the concept of truth” thing. They know that they didn’t hit that building. They know that other people know that they didn’t hit it. They know that their claim is unbelievable and that nobody will believe it. The goal isn’t to make people believe that they hit the building, it’s to make people refuse to believe anyone who claims to have hit a building. Facts are just whatever the government says and that means facts aren’t true so you don’t need to worry about them.

That means that when we say “yeah but Ukraine really hit your building and really killed hundreds of mobiks, it’s a fact” then that gets classified as a lie.

The purpose of their claim isn’t to make people think they killed 600 Ukrainians, it’s to bring back to life the 400 Russian mobiks flattened last week. They were factually killed by Ukraine but if facts are a lie then those men never died.

On January 09 2023 04:07 Simberto wrote:the Russian concept of vranyo

On January 09 2023 02:05 KwarK wrote:
It’s just the old “Russians are unfamiliar with the concept of truth” thing. They know that they didn’t hit that building. They know that other people know that they didn’t hit it. They know that their claim is unbelievable and that nobody will believe it. The goal isn’t to make people believe that they hit the building, it’s to make people refuse to believe anyone who claims to have hit a building. Facts are just whatever the government says and that means facts aren’t true so you don’t need to worry about them.

That means that when we say “yeah but Ukraine really hit your building and really killed hundreds of mobiks, it’s a fact” then that gets classified as a lie.

The purpose of their claim isn’t to make people think they killed 600 Ukrainians, it’s to bring back to life the 400 Russian mobiks flattened last week. They were factually killed by Ukraine but if facts are a lie then those men never died.

On January 09 2023 04:42 ZeroByte13 wrote:
Lozh (a lie) and vranyo (also a lie) are synonyms. Vranyo is a bit more rude way to name it.
I.e. you can say "lozh with good intentions" but you would not use "vranyo" in the same way.

We have like 3-5 other ways to say "a lie" with different shades of rudeness/bluntness. "Pizdyozh" being the most rude, probably.

Again, the concept itself is real and widespread. It's the fact that it's called specifically this way is made up.

On January 09 2023 06:40 ZeroByte13 wrote:
Yeah, I just don't think there's a specific term for this in Russian.
Everyone knows it's true - so no need to give it a specific name.
Like there's no specific term/idiom for having both arms and both legs not amputated. It's just business as usual, why invent a name for this specifically.

Discussions have been taking place "for a few weeks" about delivering a number of the British Army's Challenger 2 main battle tank to the Ukrainian armed forces, a Western source with knowledge of the conversations said.

Such a move would mark a significant step-up in Western support to Ukraine and could help prompt other NATO allies, in particular Germany, to follow suit.

"It would encourage others to give tanks," a Ukrainian source said.

No final decision has yet been made by Rishi Sunak's government, but if the UK did sign off on such a delivery it would become the first nation to respond to pleas from Ukrainian leaders to equip their military with powerful Western tanks.

A US-led grouping of some 50 nations - including the UK - that is delivering military support to Ukraine is due to hold its next meeting on 20 January. Any announcements about new assistance, such as tanks, could be made to coincide with the Contact Group gathering.

One source suggested Britain might offer around 10 Challenger 2 tanks - enough to equip a squadron.

The source said this in itself would not be a "game changer" but it would still be hugely significant because the move would breach a barrier that has so far prevented allies from offering up Western tanks to Ukraine for fear of being seen as overly escalatory by Russia.

That could in turn prompt other allies to do the same, sources said.

On January 09 2023 04:07 Simberto wrote:
It is lying, but everyone involved knows the lie is a lie, but as they also profit from it, everyone is incentiviced to keep the lie going and not try to expose liers.

Apparently that was very common practice in peacetime Russian military, and obviously in a peacetime military it works very well for the people involved. Everyone reports amazing results, which looks good for everyone in the chain of command.

On January 09 2023 23:23 Manit0u wrote:


I see a pattern here. It seems that such a thing would be pretty common in authoritarian governments. China and NK appear to have exactly the same issue, where they want to project their military's image as super strong to their own citizens and leadership even though it's far from that.

On January 09 2023 23:28 Simberto wrote:


I think that that is something that is very likely to happen in a peacetime military, if you are not every careful and have very good structures to prevent it.

After all, everyone profits if the report says that the time at the shooting range was amazing, everyone was on time, prepared, and had amazing accuracy.

The soldiers are happy, the direct officers may get promoted because their troop is in such an amazing condition, and the higher ups are happy because they can also report that the military has an amazing standard of training and is at peak combat efficiency.

Meanwhile, if you report that half of them turned up drunk, the other half was late, no one was in uniform, half the guns fell apart or couldn't fire, and no one hit any target, that looks bad for everyone involved, and it leads to problems for all of them. So just write the first report instead.

It only leads to problems if a war starts.

On January 10 2023 00:58 Gorsameth wrote:
I have heard say Putin ordered better linked databases between border security and mobilization after the previous fiasco. So that this time everyone that gets a mobilization order doesn't just immediately flee the country.

And another mobilization around the 15th has been making the rumour rounds for a while now.
Does tell you something about what is left alive of the previous wave if they already need a new one.