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Russo-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 302

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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28736 Posts
November 08 2022 13:44 GMT
#6021
On November 08 2022 22:21 SC-Shield wrote:


I see huge intellectual decline here. Even if Russia decided to be good from tomorrow, it would take decades to get some of population educated and properly thinking. Problem of Russia isn't that it needs more land (they won't get Ukraine). Instead, it's that education is bad (too much TV brainwashing going on) and democracy is at very low level. "Be silent and live your life" seems to be lifestyle over there based on what I've seen so far. It's disgusting to me listen to people like the ones from interview above, it's like I'm listening to Goebbels or some nazi bs.


I don't feel disgusted as much as I feel depressed. Older people don't know of anything. Younger people feel hopeless. Everybody is either drunk, or getting water. This urban-rural divide is next level - if you go to any western european country you'll note that there's a difference between cities and more rural places but here, it's downright hard to believe that it's the same country as Moscow/St Petersburg.
Moderator
a_ch
Profile Joined September 2022
Russian Federation240 Posts
November 08 2022 13:46 GMT
#6022
On November 08 2022 22:21 SC-Shield wrote:
https://youtu.be/dLCc60VDArM

I see huge intellectual decline here. Even if Russia decided to be good from tomorrow, it would take decades to get some of population educated and properly thinking. Problem of Russia isn't that it needs more land (they won't get Ukraine). Instead, it's that education is bad (too much TV brainwashing going on) and democracy is at very low level. "Be silent and live your life" seems to be lifestyle over there based on what I've seen so far. It's disgusting to me listen to people like the ones from interview above, it's like I'm listening to Goebbels or some nazi bs.


I see intellectual decline when a person doesn't know about biased samples
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany7034 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-11-08 14:02:05
November 08 2022 14:01 GMT
#6023
On November 08 2022 22:44 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2022 22:21 SC-Shield wrote:
https://youtu.be/dLCc60VDArM

I see huge intellectual decline here. Even if Russia decided to be good from tomorrow, it would take decades to get some of population educated and properly thinking. Problem of Russia isn't that it needs more land (they won't get Ukraine). Instead, it's that education is bad (too much TV brainwashing going on) and democracy is at very low level. "Be silent and live your life" seems to be lifestyle over there based on what I've seen so far. It's disgusting to me listen to people like the ones from interview above, it's like I'm listening to Goebbels or some nazi bs.


I don't feel disgusted as much as I feel depressed. Older people don't know of anything. Younger people feel hopeless. Everybody is either drunk, or getting water. This urban-rural divide is next level - if you go to any western european country you'll note that there's a difference between cities and more rural places but here, it's downright hard to believe that it's the same country as Moscow/St Petersburg.


I like the fact that the thumbnail shows a guy with a newish LED headlamp getting water from a well by turning a lever by hand. There are about 2000 years between those two "technologies" ...
Feels a bit made up if you ask me
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18193 Posts
November 08 2022 14:28 GMT
#6024
On November 08 2022 18:06 Simberto wrote:
There are two factors to this:

Firstly, we felt safe. All of our neighbours are allies or Switzerland. We simply did not really see a need for a big military for defense, and thus any money spent on it was seen as a waste and was hugely unpopular here.

Secondly, the military is simply not that popular. A military which intervenes abroad is not something we feel comfortable with due to history, and we only do it in absolutely clear-cut cases, or in those cases where our alliances force us to. The military is not totally unpopular either, but the whole "serve the country" thing is not how we view it. And once again, this means that we don't like to spend money on the military that could be spend on literally anything else.

That is true since the early 90s. Before then there was a giant fence in the middle of your country, and your capital was divided into two parts with a big wall in the middle. You weren't surrounded by allies. Your country was literally divided into two halves that were (at a governmental/ideological level) enemies. That is considerably after WW2.

However, of course that was 30+ years ago. The material from that time is in no better state than the Soviet tanks that are salvaged out of the graveyards to go and fight on the front lines now. Combined with the general post-WW2 mindset that Germany was not to be trusted with a big army, and the Germans themselves took that to heart, I don't think anybody expects Germany to have a big army. But WW2 did shape peoples' minds and the idea of Germany rolling their tanks all over Europe stuck around. So any time anybody says tanks, people think "doesn't Germany have a shitload?"

Dav1oN
Profile Joined January 2012
Ukraine3164 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-11-08 14:49:17
November 08 2022 14:32 GMT
#6025
On November 08 2022 23:01 Harris1st wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2022 22:44 Liquid`Drone wrote:
On November 08 2022 22:21 SC-Shield wrote:
https://youtu.be/dLCc60VDArM

I see huge intellectual decline here. Even if Russia decided to be good from tomorrow, it would take decades to get some of population educated and properly thinking. Problem of Russia isn't that it needs more land (they won't get Ukraine). Instead, it's that education is bad (too much TV brainwashing going on) and democracy is at very low level. "Be silent and live your life" seems to be lifestyle over there based on what I've seen so far. It's disgusting to me listen to people like the ones from interview above, it's like I'm listening to Goebbels or some nazi bs.


I don't feel disgusted as much as I feel depressed. Older people don't know of anything. Younger people feel hopeless. Everybody is either drunk, or getting water. This urban-rural divide is next level - if you go to any western european country you'll note that there's a difference between cities and more rural places but here, it's downright hard to believe that it's the same country as Moscow/St Petersburg.


I like the fact that the thumbnail shows a guy with a newish LED headlamp getting water from a well by turning a lever by hand. There are about 2000 years between those two "technologies" ...
Feels a bit made up if you ask me


LED is not the most sophisticated tech tbh, and it's quite cheap to get one from China, so nothing surprising, and nothing is made up I assume. Extremely underdeveloped rural areas, the towns in the north-eastern part of Russia are slowly dying (especially those that were build for coal extraction in the north during USSR era) and unsustainable.

The life in the rural areas is miserable, just imagine you spend all your life in a single village in a such conditions. They simply don't have a reference of a better life. The only source of the info is in the TV and maybe someone passing by

And this happens in a country with enormous deposits of raw/valuable materials. Instead of improving the quality of life for own citizens - Russian ruling class which is directly descending from Nomenklatura/KGB (USSR ruling class) build a fleet of personal Yachts and thousands of missiles to bomb it's neighbor only for Domestic Policy purposes since nazis, dirty bomb, bio labs and everything else are just a made up reasons
In memory of Geoff "iNcontroL" Robinson 11.09.1985 - 21.07.2019 A tribute to incredible man, embodiment of joy, esports titan, starcraft community pillar all in one. You will always be remembered!
SC-Shield
Profile Joined December 2018
Bulgaria835 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-11-08 14:37:22
November 08 2022 14:33 GMT
#6026
On November 08 2022 22:46 a_ch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2022 22:21 SC-Shield wrote:
https://youtu.be/dLCc60VDArM

I see huge intellectual decline here. Even if Russia decided to be good from tomorrow, it would take decades to get some of population educated and properly thinking. Problem of Russia isn't that it needs more land (they won't get Ukraine). Instead, it's that education is bad (too much TV brainwashing going on) and democracy is at very low level. "Be silent and live your life" seems to be lifestyle over there based on what I've seen so far. It's disgusting to me listen to people like the ones from interview above, it's like I'm listening to Goebbels or some nazi bs.


I see intellectual decline when a person doesn't know about biased samples


Nice try, I see your feelings are hurt but I consider myself educated enough about Russia's geopolitical history starting from Soviet times.
To the point, I rarely miss 1420's interviews and even when interviews are in Moscow there are still a lot of people who prefer to stay silent (or say "I'm not into politics" which is probably the same most of the time). Yes, rural Russians seem more patriotic, less knowledgeable about the external world but it's not like you don't see such people in Moscow where they say "for the motherland!" and that war against Ukraine is "right". Also, Russia isn't just Moscow and Saints Petersburg so it doesn't make me any less disgusted if video is outside these 2 cities.
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18193 Posts
November 08 2022 14:42 GMT
#6027
On November 08 2022 21:16 Harris1st wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2022 19:32 StorrZerg wrote:
1 is a poor point. Just because Germany isnt adjacent to an unfriendly state doest mean they should be delinquent on their military. Kind of a shit thing to do to your allies. Join a defense pact and not meet your minimum spending requirements on military. I get why it was unpopular and why it was easy to become complacent. However since Germany is such a prosperous European country, id love to see them taking a bigger stand. Send the tanks.


I believe Trump was up our ass for a long time because of the subpar spending on military.
Fact is, the Bundeswehr is in shambles and has been for decades. Germany couldn't have defended its territory like UA did without ample warning time.

In Germany's defense, neither could Ukraine. They got hopelessly thrashed in 2014. That's the warning time they had. I want to think Germany would be able to get a big, strong, modern defense force in 8 years in the case that France waltzed in and occupied all of Baden-Württemberg (to give a random example).
Ardias
Profile Joined January 2014
Russian Federation617 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-11-08 20:44:54
November 08 2022 15:00 GMT
#6028
On November 08 2022 23:01 Harris1st wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2022 22:44 Liquid`Drone wrote:
On November 08 2022 22:21 SC-Shield wrote:
https://youtu.be/dLCc60VDArM

I see huge intellectual decline here. Even if Russia decided to be good from tomorrow, it would take decades to get some of population educated and properly thinking. Problem of Russia isn't that it needs more land (they won't get Ukraine). Instead, it's that education is bad (too much TV brainwashing going on) and democracy is at very low level. "Be silent and live your life" seems to be lifestyle over there based on what I've seen so far. It's disgusting to me listen to people like the ones from interview above, it's like I'm listening to Goebbels or some nazi bs.


I don't feel disgusted as much as I feel depressed. Older people don't know of anything. Younger people feel hopeless. Everybody is either drunk, or getting water. This urban-rural divide is next level - if you go to any western european country you'll note that there's a difference between cities and more rural places but here, it's downright hard to believe that it's the same country as Moscow/St Petersburg.


I like the fact that the thumbnail shows a guy with a newish LED headlamp getting water from a well by turning a lever by hand. There are about 2000 years between those two "technologies" ...
Feels a bit made up if you ask me

Hardly so (was helping my father-in-law a bit with similar one). The fact that you or your friends/relatives can buy a nice headlamp in town, doesn't mean, you will be able to afford to build yourself a proper water drilled well with pump and pipe system throughout the house if you live in rural area. There is generally little good paying jobs out there (collapse of the Soviet Union helped with that), so most of the youth go to the cities for work. Countryside is for the old people, except if there is a big agricultural or wood-cutting enterprise around.
Though more and more people are building houses in countryside by modern standards, generally thouse who likes living out of town, but has a well-paying job (either village isn't far from town, they have remote job or use this house for visiting only, not for regular living).
Also I believe Sent. was asking what a "cold toilet" is.
This is.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Had a party in one of my friends' old wooden house in village near the city (to be fair house has been neglected for years, since no one lives there on constant basis).
Mess with the best or die like the rest.
a_ch
Profile Joined September 2022
Russian Federation240 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-11-08 15:19:13
November 08 2022 15:12 GMT
#6029
On November 08 2022 23:33 SC-Shield wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2022 22:46 a_ch wrote:
On November 08 2022 22:21 SC-Shield wrote:
https://youtu.be/dLCc60VDArM

I see huge intellectual decline here. Even if Russia decided to be good from tomorrow, it would take decades to get some of population educated and properly thinking. Problem of Russia isn't that it needs more land (they won't get Ukraine). Instead, it's that education is bad (too much TV brainwashing going on) and democracy is at very low level. "Be silent and live your life" seems to be lifestyle over there based on what I've seen so far. It's disgusting to me listen to people like the ones from interview above, it's like I'm listening to Goebbels or some nazi bs.


I see intellectual decline when a person doesn't know about biased samples


Nice try, I see your feelings are hurt but I consider myself educated enough about Russia's geopolitical history starting from Soviet times.
To the point, I rarely miss 1420's interviews and even when interviews are in Moscow there are still a lot of people who prefer to stay silent (or say "I'm not into politics" which is probably the same most of the time). Yes, rural Russians seem more patriotic, less knowledgeable about the external world but it's not like you don't see such people in Moscow where they say "for the motherland!" and that war against Ukraine is "right". Also, Russia isn't just Moscow and Saints Petersburg so it doesn't make me any less disgusted if video is outside these 2 cities.


-so, watching all 1420's video makes you confident about sociology and education level in Russia? Congrats, that's how propaganda works
SC-Shield
Profile Joined December 2018
Bulgaria835 Posts
November 08 2022 16:01 GMT
#6030
On November 09 2022 00:12 a_ch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2022 23:33 SC-Shield wrote:
On November 08 2022 22:46 a_ch wrote:
On November 08 2022 22:21 SC-Shield wrote:
https://youtu.be/dLCc60VDArM

I see huge intellectual decline here. Even if Russia decided to be good from tomorrow, it would take decades to get some of population educated and properly thinking. Problem of Russia isn't that it needs more land (they won't get Ukraine). Instead, it's that education is bad (too much TV brainwashing going on) and democracy is at very low level. "Be silent and live your life" seems to be lifestyle over there based on what I've seen so far. It's disgusting to me listen to people like the ones from interview above, it's like I'm listening to Goebbels or some nazi bs.


I see intellectual decline when a person doesn't know about biased samples


Nice try, I see your feelings are hurt but I consider myself educated enough about Russia's geopolitical history starting from Soviet times.
To the point, I rarely miss 1420's interviews and even when interviews are in Moscow there are still a lot of people who prefer to stay silent (or say "I'm not into politics" which is probably the same most of the time). Yes, rural Russians seem more patriotic, less knowledgeable about the external world but it's not like you don't see such people in Moscow where they say "for the motherland!" and that war against Ukraine is "right". Also, Russia isn't just Moscow and Saints Petersburg so it doesn't make me any less disgusted if video is outside these 2 cities.


-so, watching all 1420's video makes you confident about sociology and education level in Russia? Congrats, that's how propaganda works


It's not just videos. Eastern Europe and Russia have common history due to the previous century. I know what forceful methods and propaganda communists were using. I see almost the same methods used nowadays in Russia. Putin isn't Stalin but a killer is still a killer. Also, Kremlin has a pretty good track record of lying so please don't tell me about propaganda. I use more than one source to educate myself.
Ardias
Profile Joined January 2014
Russian Federation617 Posts
November 08 2022 21:11 GMT
#6031
Article about pro-war Russian population and media and dynamic between them and Kremlin
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/11/1/the-rise-of-the-patriotic-critic-in-russia
Mess with the best or die like the rest.
0x64
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Finland4601 Posts
November 08 2022 22:43 GMT
#6032
On November 09 2022 00:12 a_ch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2022 23:33 SC-Shield wrote:
On November 08 2022 22:46 a_ch wrote:
On November 08 2022 22:21 SC-Shield wrote:
https://youtu.be/dLCc60VDArM

I see huge intellectual decline here. Even if Russia decided to be good from tomorrow, it would take decades to get some of population educated and properly thinking. Problem of Russia isn't that it needs more land (they won't get Ukraine). Instead, it's that education is bad (too much TV brainwashing going on) and democracy is at very low level. "Be silent and live your life" seems to be lifestyle over there based on what I've seen so far. It's disgusting to me listen to people like the ones from interview above, it's like I'm listening to Goebbels or some nazi bs.


I see intellectual decline when a person doesn't know about biased samples


Nice try, I see your feelings are hurt but I consider myself educated enough about Russia's geopolitical history starting from Soviet times.
To the point, I rarely miss 1420's interviews and even when interviews are in Moscow there are still a lot of people who prefer to stay silent (or say "I'm not into politics" which is probably the same most of the time). Yes, rural Russians seem more patriotic, less knowledgeable about the external world but it's not like you don't see such people in Moscow where they say "for the motherland!" and that war against Ukraine is "right". Also, Russia isn't just Moscow and Saints Petersburg so it doesn't make me any less disgusted if video is outside these 2 cities.


-so, watching all 1420's video makes you confident about sociology and education level in Russia? Congrats, that's how propaganda works


I know it isn't what you said, but do you think 1420 videos are propaganda and if so, how do they manage to still make this content?
Dump of assembler code from 0xffffffec to 0x64: End of assembler dump.
a_ch
Profile Joined September 2022
Russian Federation240 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-11-09 01:09:10
November 09 2022 00:34 GMT
#6033
On November 09 2022 07:43 0x64 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2022 00:12 a_ch wrote:
On November 08 2022 23:33 SC-Shield wrote:
On November 08 2022 22:46 a_ch wrote:
On November 08 2022 22:21 SC-Shield wrote:
https://youtu.be/dLCc60VDArM

I see huge intellectual decline here. Even if Russia decided to be good from tomorrow, it would take decades to get some of population educated and properly thinking. Problem of Russia isn't that it needs more land (they won't get Ukraine). Instead, it's that education is bad (too much TV brainwashing going on) and democracy is at very low level. "Be silent and live your life" seems to be lifestyle over there based on what I've seen so far. It's disgusting to me listen to people like the ones from interview above, it's like I'm listening to Goebbels or some nazi bs.


I see intellectual decline when a person doesn't know about biased samples


Nice try, I see your feelings are hurt but I consider myself educated enough about Russia's geopolitical history starting from Soviet times.
To the point, I rarely miss 1420's interviews and even when interviews are in Moscow there are still a lot of people who prefer to stay silent (or say "I'm not into politics" which is probably the same most of the time). Yes, rural Russians seem more patriotic, less knowledgeable about the external world but it's not like you don't see such people in Moscow where they say "for the motherland!" and that war against Ukraine is "right". Also, Russia isn't just Moscow and Saints Petersburg so it doesn't make me any less disgusted if video is outside these 2 cities.


-so, watching all 1420's video makes you confident about sociology and education level in Russia? Congrats, that's how propaganda works


I know it isn't what you said, but do you think 1420 videos are propaganda and if so, how do they manage to still make this content?


-I've seen a gradual increase in biasedness of their videos in time. What they currently do is almost 100% playing with the general narratives of western media on Russia.
I dont think they are paid for it (other than Youtube monetization); my guess is that is due to some sort of positive feedback loop - as they tune to the viewpoints of their audience

>>how do they manage to still make this content?
Imho, you overestimate the strictness of media regulation here. There are plently of critics of government, MoD, Putin, on Youtube and Telegram channels, which have become an important news sources here. A channel with a relatively small Russian audience, like their, is unlikely to get serious problems with law.
Just as an example - most of Ukrainian media have Russian-language Telegram channels, which are freely available here.
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany7034 Posts
November 09 2022 09:24 GMT
#6034
On November 08 2022 23:32 Dav1oN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2022 23:01 Harris1st wrote:
On November 08 2022 22:44 Liquid`Drone wrote:
On November 08 2022 22:21 SC-Shield wrote:
https://youtu.be/dLCc60VDArM

I see huge intellectual decline here. Even if Russia decided to be good from tomorrow, it would take decades to get some of population educated and properly thinking. Problem of Russia isn't that it needs more land (they won't get Ukraine). Instead, it's that education is bad (too much TV brainwashing going on) and democracy is at very low level. "Be silent and live your life" seems to be lifestyle over there based on what I've seen so far. It's disgusting to me listen to people like the ones from interview above, it's like I'm listening to Goebbels or some nazi bs.


I don't feel disgusted as much as I feel depressed. Older people don't know of anything. Younger people feel hopeless. Everybody is either drunk, or getting water. This urban-rural divide is next level - if you go to any western european country you'll note that there's a difference between cities and more rural places but here, it's downright hard to believe that it's the same country as Moscow/St Petersburg.


I like the fact that the thumbnail shows a guy with a newish LED headlamp getting water from a well by turning a lever by hand. There are about 2000 years between those two "technologies" ...
Feels a bit made up if you ask me


LED is not the most sophisticated tech tbh, and it's quite cheap to get one from China, so nothing surprising, and nothing is made up I assume. Extremely underdeveloped rural areas, the towns in the north-eastern part of Russia are slowly dying (especially those that were build for coal extraction in the north during USSR era) and unsustainable.

The life in the rural areas is miserable, just imagine you spend all your life in a single village in a such conditions. They simply don't have a reference of a better life. The only source of the info is in the TV and maybe someone passing by

And this happens in a country with enormous deposits of raw/valuable materials. Instead of improving the quality of life for own citizens - Russian ruling class which is directly descending from Nomenklatura/KGB (USSR ruling class) build a fleet of personal Yachts and thousands of missiles to bomb it's neighbor only for Domestic Policy purposes since nazis, dirty bomb, bio labs and everything else are just a made up reasons


Not saying it is made up. It's just the fact that it's hard to believe a simple waterpump and some garden hose are impossible to come by. Given electricity of couse. If they don't have electricity, my point is moot.
Anyway, back to the tanks at hand: Both KMW and Reinmetall are working on a successor to the Leo2 right now. Until either of those is ready for mass production, Germany is not gonna give up the few modern Leo2 they have. We are talking 15-20 years here. Maybe, just maybe some of the older decomissioned ones. But making those battle ready will probably take 1-2 years as well.
The only thing that can be done right now is allowing other countries to send their German made tanks
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
Ardias
Profile Joined January 2014
Russian Federation617 Posts
November 09 2022 10:15 GMT
#6035
On November 09 2022 18:24 Harris1st wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 08 2022 23:32 Dav1oN wrote:
On November 08 2022 23:01 Harris1st wrote:
On November 08 2022 22:44 Liquid`Drone wrote:
On November 08 2022 22:21 SC-Shield wrote:
https://youtu.be/dLCc60VDArM

I see huge intellectual decline here. Even if Russia decided to be good from tomorrow, it would take decades to get some of population educated and properly thinking. Problem of Russia isn't that it needs more land (they won't get Ukraine). Instead, it's that education is bad (too much TV brainwashing going on) and democracy is at very low level. "Be silent and live your life" seems to be lifestyle over there based on what I've seen so far. It's disgusting to me listen to people like the ones from interview above, it's like I'm listening to Goebbels or some nazi bs.


I don't feel disgusted as much as I feel depressed. Older people don't know of anything. Younger people feel hopeless. Everybody is either drunk, or getting water. This urban-rural divide is next level - if you go to any western european country you'll note that there's a difference between cities and more rural places but here, it's downright hard to believe that it's the same country as Moscow/St Petersburg.


I like the fact that the thumbnail shows a guy with a newish LED headlamp getting water from a well by turning a lever by hand. There are about 2000 years between those two "technologies" ...
Feels a bit made up if you ask me


LED is not the most sophisticated tech tbh, and it's quite cheap to get one from China, so nothing surprising, and nothing is made up I assume. Extremely underdeveloped rural areas, the towns in the north-eastern part of Russia are slowly dying (especially those that were build for coal extraction in the north during USSR era) and unsustainable.

The life in the rural areas is miserable, just imagine you spend all your life in a single village in a such conditions. They simply don't have a reference of a better life. The only source of the info is in the TV and maybe someone passing by

And this happens in a country with enormous deposits of raw/valuable materials. Instead of improving the quality of life for own citizens - Russian ruling class which is directly descending from Nomenklatura/KGB (USSR ruling class) build a fleet of personal Yachts and thousands of missiles to bomb it's neighbor only for Domestic Policy purposes since nazis, dirty bomb, bio labs and everything else are just a made up reasons


Not saying it is made up. It's just the fact that it's hard to believe a simple waterpump and some garden hose are impossible to come by. Given electricity of couse. If they don't have electricity, my point is moot.
Anyway, back to the tanks at hand: Both KMW and Reinmetall are working on a successor to the Leo2 right now. Until either of those is ready for mass production, Germany is not gonna give up the few modern Leo2 they have. We are talking 15-20 years here. Maybe, just maybe some of the older decomissioned ones. But making those battle ready will probably take 1-2 years as well.
The only thing that can be done right now is allowing other countries to send their German made tanks

Are they incapable of producing new Leo 2 in the meantime? RnD and production are different stages, up to a certain point when there is requirment for new vehicle en mass and you need to make adjustments to the production line.
Mess with the best or die like the rest.
r00ty
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany1059 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-11-09 10:48:47
November 09 2022 10:37 GMT
#6036
On November 09 2022 19:15 Ardias wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2022 18:24 Harris1st wrote:
On November 08 2022 23:32 Dav1oN wrote:
On November 08 2022 23:01 Harris1st wrote:
On November 08 2022 22:44 Liquid`Drone wrote:
On November 08 2022 22:21 SC-Shield wrote:
https://youtu.be/dLCc60VDArM

I see huge intellectual decline here. Even if Russia decided to be good from tomorrow, it would take decades to get some of population educated and properly thinking. Problem of Russia isn't that it needs more land (they won't get Ukraine). Instead, it's that education is bad (too much TV brainwashing going on) and democracy is at very low level. "Be silent and live your life" seems to be lifestyle over there based on what I've seen so far. It's disgusting to me listen to people like the ones from interview above, it's like I'm listening to Goebbels or some nazi bs.


I don't feel disgusted as much as I feel depressed. Older people don't know of anything. Younger people feel hopeless. Everybody is either drunk, or getting water. This urban-rural divide is next level - if you go to any western european country you'll note that there's a difference between cities and more rural places but here, it's downright hard to believe that it's the same country as Moscow/St Petersburg.


I like the fact that the thumbnail shows a guy with a newish LED headlamp getting water from a well by turning a lever by hand. There are about 2000 years between those two "technologies" ...
Feels a bit made up if you ask me


LED is not the most sophisticated tech tbh, and it's quite cheap to get one from China, so nothing surprising, and nothing is made up I assume. Extremely underdeveloped rural areas, the towns in the north-eastern part of Russia are slowly dying (especially those that were build for coal extraction in the north during USSR era) and unsustainable.

The life in the rural areas is miserable, just imagine you spend all your life in a single village in a such conditions. They simply don't have a reference of a better life. The only source of the info is in the TV and maybe someone passing by

And this happens in a country with enormous deposits of raw/valuable materials. Instead of improving the quality of life for own citizens - Russian ruling class which is directly descending from Nomenklatura/KGB (USSR ruling class) build a fleet of personal Yachts and thousands of missiles to bomb it's neighbor only for Domestic Policy purposes since nazis, dirty bomb, bio labs and everything else are just a made up reasons


Not saying it is made up. It's just the fact that it's hard to believe a simple waterpump and some garden hose are impossible to come by. Given electricity of couse. If they don't have electricity, my point is moot.
Anyway, back to the tanks at hand: Both KMW and Reinmetall are working on a successor to the Leo2 right now. Until either of those is ready for mass production, Germany is not gonna give up the few modern Leo2 they have. We are talking 15-20 years here. Maybe, just maybe some of the older decomissioned ones. But making those battle ready will probably take 1-2 years as well.
The only thing that can be done right now is allowing other countries to send their German made tanks

Are they incapable of producing new Leo 2 in the meantime? RnD and production are different stages, up to a certain point when there is requirment for new vehicle en mass and you need to make adjustments to the production line.


They are constantly in production, on order for us and other countries. Rheinmetall and KMW are private entities, we don't have a nationalised defense industry and we use to honour our contracts.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-11-09 14:39:12
November 09 2022 14:30 GMT
#6037





Russia has reportedly lost over 700 men in combat just in the Donetsk region yesterday. One has to wonder what the strategy for Russia is here, they have been pulling conscripts from everywhere minus the cities of St. Petersburg, and Moscow. But everywhere else, especially in the East, is where the economy is. So the more wounded and dead that pile up means bigger and bigger economic shocks etc. For the two untouchable cities in the West...

Ukraine's military says more than 700 Russian troops were killed during a single day of war.

The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine said in a Facebook post on Tuesday that a total of 710 Russian soldiers had been "eliminated." Ukraine said that a significant number of Russians were killed in the Donetsk region. The "greatest losses" were said to be near the city of Avdiivka and in Bakhmut, which Russian forces have been battling to capture for months.

Ukraine also claimed the destruction of 15 Russian tanks, 24 armored vehicles, nine artillery systems, four tactical drones, one anti-aircraft system and one airplane on Tuesday. Newsweek has not independently verified any of the Ukrainian figures.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky described the fighting in Donetsk, which Russian President Vladimir Putin claimed to have annexed for Russia in September, as "especially difficult" on Tuesday. He said that the Russian military was continuing its push to capture the entirety of the region despite its own troops suffering "extremely" heavy losses.

"The activity of the occupiers there remains at an extremely high level—dozens of attacks every day," Zelensky said during his nightly televised address. "They suffer extremely large-scale losses, but their order has not changed—to reach the administrative border of the Donetsk region. We do not give up a single centimeter of our land there."

Ukrainian resistance has meant that the Russian military has recently made "little to no progress" on the Donetsk front lines, according to a Tuesday report from the Institute for the Study of War (ISW), which cites Russian media and Telegram posts.

The ISW report also claims that Russian casualties in parts of the region "are much more severe" than what the Russian military has been willing to disclose.

On Monday, a letter purportedly from Russia's 155th Guards Naval Infantry Brigade claimed that around 300 members of the unit were lost last week—including those "killed, wounded, and missing"—during an "incomprehensible" attack on the Donetsk village of Pavlivka.

"The district command together with [the brigade commander] are hiding this...for fear of accountability," the letter claimed. "They don't care about anything other than showing off. They call people meat."

Russian officials disputed the claim, prompting Zelensky to assert that the region is "littered" with the bodies of Russian soldiers and accuse Moscow of ordering officials to "lie" about the situation.

"The Donetsk region remains the epicenter of the greatest madness of the occupiers—they die by the hundreds every day," Zelensky said on Monday. "The ground in front of the Ukrainian positions is literally littered with the bodies of the occupiers."

Ukraine claims that at least 77,170 Russian troops have been killed since the invasion began on February 24. Russia has rarely publicly shared its own figures on troop deaths, while those that have been released have been far lower than Ukrainian estimates.

In September, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu claimed that fewer than 5,937 Russian troops had been killed since the beginning of the war, according to Reuters. Ukraine claimed to have killed over 55,000 Russian troops at the time.

Newsweek reached out to the Russian Ministry of Defense for comment.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11720 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-11-09 15:02:21
November 09 2022 14:59 GMT
#6038
On November 09 2022 23:30 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5SgQekDK6M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLLsD7Vedm8


Russia has reportedly lost over 700 men in combat just in the Donetsk region yesterday. One has to wonder what the strategy for Russia is here, they have been pulling conscripts from everywhere minus the cities of St. Petersburg, and Moscow. But everywhere else, especially in the East, is where the economy is. So the more wounded and dead that pile up means bigger and bigger economic shocks etc. For the two untouchable cities in the West...

Show nested quote +
Ukraine's military says more than 700 Russian troops were killed during a single day of war.

The General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine said in a Facebook post on Tuesday that a total of 710 Russian soldiers had been "eliminated." Ukraine said that a significant number of Russians were killed in the Donetsk region. The "greatest losses" were said to be near the city of Avdiivka and in Bakhmut, which Russian forces have been battling to capture for months.

Ukraine also claimed the destruction of 15 Russian tanks, 24 armored vehicles, nine artillery systems, four tactical drones, one anti-aircraft system and one airplane on Tuesday. Newsweek has not independently verified any of the Ukrainian figures.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky described the fighting in Donetsk, which Russian President Vladimir Putin claimed to have annexed for Russia in September, as "especially difficult" on Tuesday. He said that the Russian military was continuing its push to capture the entirety of the region despite its own troops suffering "extremely" heavy losses.

"The activity of the occupiers there remains at an extremely high level—dozens of attacks every day," Zelensky said during his nightly televised address. "They suffer extremely large-scale losses, but their order has not changed—to reach the administrative border of the Donetsk region. We do not give up a single centimeter of our land there."

Ukrainian resistance has meant that the Russian military has recently made "little to no progress" on the Donetsk front lines, according to a Tuesday report from the Institute for the Study of War (ISW), which cites Russian media and Telegram posts.

The ISW report also claims that Russian casualties in parts of the region "are much more severe" than what the Russian military has been willing to disclose.

On Monday, a letter purportedly from Russia's 155th Guards Naval Infantry Brigade claimed that around 300 members of the unit were lost last week—including those "killed, wounded, and missing"—during an "incomprehensible" attack on the Donetsk village of Pavlivka.

"The district command together with [the brigade commander] are hiding this...for fear of accountability," the letter claimed. "They don't care about anything other than showing off. They call people meat."

Russian officials disputed the claim, prompting Zelensky to assert that the region is "littered" with the bodies of Russian soldiers and accuse Moscow of ordering officials to "lie" about the situation.

"The Donetsk region remains the epicenter of the greatest madness of the occupiers—they die by the hundreds every day," Zelensky said on Monday. "The ground in front of the Ukrainian positions is literally littered with the bodies of the occupiers."

Ukraine claims that at least 77,170 Russian troops have been killed since the invasion began on February 24. Russia has rarely publicly shared its own figures on troop deaths, while those that have been released have been far lower than Ukrainian estimates.

In September, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu claimed that fewer than 5,937 Russian troops had been killed since the beginning of the war, according to Reuters. Ukraine claimed to have killed over 55,000 Russian troops at the time.

Newsweek reached out to the Russian Ministry of Defense for comment.


Source


Sadly, those kinds casualties are sustainable for a very long time, if the will is there. In WW1, Germany had on average about 1300 military deaths a day, out of a population of 65 million. And this was kept up for 4 years.

700 on the worst day is something that Russia can probably potentially keep up forever.

Edit: And even with the highest number of Russian deaths i have seen (77k), we only get about 300 deaths a day. Which is obviously horrific and a tragedy, but also something that Russia can do for decades.
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9268 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-11-09 16:04:57
November 09 2022 15:59 GMT
#6039
Lmao Russians are officially pulling out of Kherson.

You're now breathing manually
plasmidghost
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Belgium16168 Posts
November 09 2022 16:13 GMT
#6040
On November 10 2022 00:59 Sent. wrote:
Lmao Russians are officially pulling out of Kherson.

https://twitter.com/MrKovalenko/status/1590370441176449025

Let's fucking go gang, hope this makes even more people turn on Putin
Yugoslavia will always live on in my heart
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