EPTRusso-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 274
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
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RolleMcKnolle
Germany1054 Posts
On October 12 2022 01:31 Mohdoo wrote: Starting to think the West is just slow dripping enough support for Ukraine such that Russia never gives up and just slowly kills themselves. I am about 99% sure that is exactly the plan. The governments dont care much about Ukrainians, they care about removing a geopolitical rival by giving him a second Afghanistan. Everything else is Propaganda. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17872 Posts
On October 12 2022 01:31 Mohdoo wrote: Starting to think the West is just slow dripping enough support for Ukraine such that Russia never gives up and just slowly kills themselves. This is not entirely true. There are many factors in play: 1. Countries don't usually have a lot of military equipment they can spare just lying around. You want to help but you also want to keep your own army operational. Poland is using this time to modernize their own armed forces but still replacing large number of tanks and other heavy equipment might take years (orders for Leopards for example have a 4 year waiting queue). 2. It's not like Ukraine could use large amounts of equipment ad hoc. Personnel needs to be trained on it and that can take weeks if not months, especially if you also consider the language barrier where labels need to be changed etc. You have to remember that UA had Soviet era stuff that wasn't NATO standard, nor were they trained using different NATO equipment. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Ardias
Russian Federation618 Posts
https://t.me/fighter_bomber/8885 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-37_(missile) And that's interesting: few regions (mine included) started second wave of mobilization after completing the first one. Not sure if it is to close the mobilization failures of some other regions or to draft even more than originally planned 300k men. https://t.me/milinfolive/91712 On October 12 2022 01:55 RolleMcKnolle wrote: I am about 99% sure that is exactly the plan. The governments dont care much about Ukrainians, they care about removing a geopolitical rival by giving him a second Afghanistan. Everything else is Propaganda. Hey, didn't expect to meet fellow DoWPro player here) | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
Meanwhile Ukrainian forces have temporarily slowed to a halt. Not yet time to freak out, but time to start worrying a bit. As a Ukrainian I'd be very focused on the news right now. ![[image loading]](https://i.gyazo.com/639f27deef014057c11691786d001e26.jpg) | ||
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RolleMcKnolle
Germany1054 Posts
On October 12 2022 01:58 JimmiC wrote: What facts lead you to such a certain conclusion? Well first of all it is pretty commonsense for geopolitical powers to act exactly like that. This is an imperialistic war fought by an imperialistic country losing control over its heart area. The other main Imperialists interested in that area are mainly EU (Germany) and USA, which have been slowly winning that fight. So to continue winning by dimishing the power of an opponent who has recently gained ground by being successful in Syria and kinda Lybia they are trying to bleed them out. I don't know why they shouldn't do it. Secondly according to this https://www.foreignaffairs.com/russian-federation/world-putin-wants-fiona-hill-angela-stent there was a Peace agreement reached by both parties in April. But suddenly there is a suprise visit by Boris Johnson in April promising weapons and money and the whole agreement is nulled. If the survival of Ukrainians was the focus why not allow a peace agreed to by both parties? | ||
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StasisField
United States1086 Posts
https://scheerpost.com/2022/09/01/report-russia-ukraine-tentatively-agreed-on-peace-deal-in-april/ Also, it was recently reported that Russia had negotiated a deal with Ukraine shortly after the war but Putin himself blocked it. https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/exclusive-war-began-putin-rejected-ukraine-peace-deal-recommended-by-his-aide-2022-09-14/ But again only one article has that information. So maybe the idea that a peace deal was reached and then immediately thrown out the window by either side is bogus and we shouldn't put stock in it when the story can't be corroborated by even a second news outlet? | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On October 12 2022 03:26 RolleMcKnolle wrote: Well first of all it is pretty commonsense for geopolitical powers to act exactly like that. This is an imperialistic war fought by an imperialistic country losing control over its heart area. The other main Imperialists interested in that area are mainly EU (Germany) and USA, which have been slowly winning that fight. So to continue winning by dimishing the power of an opponent who has recently gained ground by being successful in Syria and kinda Lybia they are trying to bleed them out. I don't know why they shouldn't do it. Secondly according to this https://www.foreignaffairs.com/russian-federation/world-putin-wants-fiona-hill-angela-stent there was a Peace agreement reached by both parties in April. But suddenly there is a suprise visit by Boris Johnson in April promising weapons and money and the whole agreement is nulled. If the survival of Ukrainians was the focus why not allow a peace agreed to by both parties? Because of this: "He ordered his “special military operation” because he believes that it is Russia’s divine right to rule Ukraine, to wipe out the country’s national identity, and to integrate its people into a Greater Russia." Russia is a sorry place to live in. Standard of living there is decades behind. And Putin wanted that for Ukraine. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22703 Posts
On October 12 2022 03:26 RolleMcKnolle wrote: Well first of all it is pretty commonsense for geopolitical powers to act exactly like that. This is an imperialistic war fought by an imperialistic country losing control over its heart area. The other main Imperialists interested in that area are mainly EU (Germany) and USA, which have been slowly winning that fight. So to continue winning by dimishing the power of an opponent who has recently gained ground by being successful in Syria and kinda Lybia they are trying to bleed them out. I don't know why they shouldn't do it. Secondly according to this https://www.foreignaffairs.com/russian-federation/world-putin-wants-fiona-hill-angela-stent there was a Peace agreement reached by both parties in April. But suddenly there is a suprise visit by Boris Johnson in April promising weapons and money and the whole agreement is nulled. If the survival of Ukrainians was the focus why not allow a peace agreed to by both parties? Assuming any of it is even true, are we really wondering why its weird that a country changes from seeking a peace deal to survive a little longer, to wanting to reclaim their land when the war turns and some sort of victory becomes an actual option? Is it weird that countries were more willing to support Ukraine when they immediate existence looked more safe and the fear that Russia would simply capture any aid send before it could change the tide went away? Your argument seems to completely ignore the situation on the ground to hide the obvious logical reasons for changes in attitude. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22703 Posts
On October 12 2022 03:58 Magic Powers wrote: I think its less about wanting Ukraine to have a shit standard of leaving but to stop Ukraine's increase in living standards from aligning with the west giving Russians any idea's that maybe Russia too could change.Because of this: "He ordered his “special military operation” because he believes that it is Russia’s divine right to rule Ukraine, to wipe out the country’s national identity, and to integrate its people into a Greater Russia." Russia is a sorry place to live in. Standard of living there is decades behind. And Putin wanted that for Ukraine. | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10168 Posts
On October 12 2022 03:26 RolleMcKnolle wrote: Well first of all it is pretty commonsense for geopolitical powers to act exactly like that. This is an imperialistic war fought by an imperialistic country losing control over its heart area. The other main Imperialists interested in that area are mainly EU (Germany) and USA, which have been slowly winning that fight. So to continue winning by dimishing the power of an opponent who has recently gained ground by being successful in Syria and kinda Lybia they are trying to bleed them out. I don't know why they shouldn't do it. Secondly according to this https://www.foreignaffairs.com/russian-federation/world-putin-wants-fiona-hill-angela-stent there was a Peace agreement reached by both parties in April. But suddenly there is a suprise visit by Boris Johnson in April promising weapons and money and the whole agreement is nulled. If the survival of Ukrainians was the focus why not allow a peace agreed to by both parties? That article has zero references to Boris Johnson. Did you post a different link by mistake ? It even talks about that peace agreement but cites Lavrov and Putin imperialist claims as the ones that stopped the peace talks. Or did you read something behind the lines that I somewhat missed ? | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5913 Posts
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Oleo
Netherlands283 Posts
On October 12 2022 03:08 Magic Powers wrote: Novosadove, Terny and Torske have been captured by Russia. This is the biggest advance Russia has made in a very long time, and it's also one of the biggest advances they've made throughout the war. Looks very dangerous to me. Russia has also ramped up the bombing along the front. Meanwhile Ukrainian forces have temporarily slowed to a halt. Not yet time to freak out, but time to start worrying a bit. As a Ukrainian I'd be very focused on the news right now. One source says A, another source says B, f.i.: | ||
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a_ch
Russian Federation240 Posts
On October 12 2022 03:58 Magic Powers wrote: Because of this: "He ordered his “special military operation” because he believes that it is Russia’s divine right to rule Ukraine, to wipe out the country’s national identity, and to integrate its people into a Greater Russia." Russia is a sorry place to live in. Standard of living there is decades behind. And Putin wanted that for Ukraine. -what sort of living standards are "decades behind" in Russia? And which countries you compare here? | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22703 Posts
On October 12 2022 05:23 a_ch wrote: All of them.-what sort of living standards are "decades behind" in Russia? And which countries you compare here? | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On October 12 2022 05:18 Oleo wrote: One source says A, another source says B, f.i.: https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1579908801133625344 Interesting choice by Russia if they didn't actually capture this region. Maybe it's an attempt to falsely report advances to superiors. We should see soon enough what's really going on. | ||
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a_ch
Russian Federation240 Posts
-that's sort of a poor answer. And my sister lives in Munich for 7+ years already, so I have enough information for making comparisons - which I believe cannot be said about you | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5913 Posts
On October 12 2022 05:32 a_ch wrote: -that's sort of a poor answer. And my sister lives in Munich for 7+ years already, so I have enough information for making comparisons - which I believe cannot be said about you Outside of large metropolitan areas like Moscow or SPB, Russia is massively behind. | ||
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