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QuanticHawk
United States32157 Posts
On March 04 2022 01:03 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Second largest company in Russia apparently. almost a 93% drop in a month just in the US markets LOL man I was on the fence of the real impact of sanctions at first, but this is far more devastating than any military intervention could have possibly been. Hopefully this ends this shitshow asap, and forces the Russian govt to collapse quickly | ||
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justanothertownie
16342 Posts
On March 04 2022 06:05 Mohdoo wrote: Isn't NATO no longer existing better than nuclear doomsday? Are we assuming Putin would nuke people less if it was due to NATO being attacked? What is the point of NATO sticking around if all of the members end up being nuked? I really feel like all the same logic applies. If the intention is to defend NATO allies and accept mutually assured destruction, we may as well also defend Ukraine. The only way that NATO actually makes sense is if it is assumed NATO prevents MAD. If NATO does not prevent MAD, it is all pointless anyway. NATO may as well just defend Ukraine if it is assumed Russia would never nuke NATO. Exactly, the assumption, which is likely correct, is that NATO prevents MAD. This only works when it is absolutely clear where the red line is though (attacking NATO members) so it is never crossed by russia. There was no such red line in the case of Ukraine. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22566 Posts
On March 04 2022 06:05 Mohdoo wrote: The only thing that prevents MAD is MAD itself, a desire to not end the world. Isn't NATO no longer existing better than nuclear doomsday? Are we assuming Putin would nuke people less if it was due to NATO being attacked? What is the point of NATO sticking around if all of the members end up being nuked? I really feel like all the same logic applies. If the intention is to defend NATO allies and accept mutually assured destruction, we may as well also defend Ukraine. The only way that NATO actually makes sense is if it is assumed NATO prevents MAD. If NATO does not prevent MAD, it is all pointless anyway. NATO may as well just defend Ukraine if it is assumed Russia would never nuke NATO. By your logic the entire world should surrender to Putin today, because if he is willing to attack NATO the world surrendering is to the only way to prevent annihilation. The fact that the 2 options are 1) hoping that no one is ever mad enough to test MAD or 2) MAD itself is why nukes existing is so terrible and why the world spend the cold war on the bring of annihilation. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
Russia’s rating was cut to junk by Moody’s. Fitch also slashed Russia’s credit rating six levels to junk and MSCI is eliminating Russian equities from its emerging-markets index. Russian markets continued to be roiled, with investors trying to find out whether the country’s bonds are in default. Source | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On March 04 2022 06:19 Gorsameth wrote: The only thing that prevents MAD is MAD itself, a desire to not end the world. By your logic the entire world should surrender to Putin today, because if he is willing to attack NATO the world surrendering is to the only way to prevent annihilation. The fact that the 2 options are 1) hoping that no one is ever mad enough to test MAD or 2) MAD itself is why nukes existing is so terrible and why the world spend the cold war on the bring of annihilation. This logic implies NATO is free to defend Ukraine. If Russia can’t attack NATO due to MAD, that means NATO can essentially do whatever it wants. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22566 Posts
On March 04 2022 08:06 Mohdoo wrote: In theory yes. NATO can do whatever it wants to countries that are not Russia and Russia can do whatever it wants to countries that are not NATO. That is how we got a bunch of proxy wars during the cold war.This logic implies NATO is free to defend Ukraine. If Russia can’t attack NATO due to MAD, that means NATO can essentially do whatever it wants. But the US, UK, France ect are all not really looking to get into a war right now. They just got out of one not so long ago and the population isn't really interested in having another one. So they would much rather just send weapons and not risk their own people. | ||
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Deleted User 173346
16169 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On March 04 2022 08:31 plasmidghost wrote: If I'm correct, right now, Ukraine, Moldova, and Georgia have applied to join the EU. I have to think that Putin severely underestimated the reaction from Europe this time around Macron calling a EU meeting to discuss how they handle military issues makes me hopeful he’s advocating for the EU to be a military alliance as well. | ||
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Legan
Finland589 Posts
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Deleted User 173346
16169 Posts
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KwarK
United States44285 Posts
On March 04 2022 08:40 plasmidghost wrote: Didn't know that at all! Is there a chance NATO countries like the US and Canada would form a defensive alliance with the EU should they go down the military alliance route? They’re already generally overlapping for the significant players. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
On March 03 2022 22:48 PhoenixVoid wrote: A pretty reputable journalist who specializes in Russia says her friend is scrambling to leave Russia to the Baltics by land. There's expectations that Putin will declare martial law soon. Not exactly a sign that Putin is feeling confident at home if this is true. Russia was already seeing a severe brain drain of its best and brightest, and it's surely going to be even worse now. A nearly worthless currency, a country being closed off from the world, and a shortening window for escape means panic from people who have the opportunity. This is also a great read on how the economic sanctions will reverberate throughout the world, including places and industries we may not be considering. This means the least developed countries will face food shortages because Russia and Ukraine are a major source of wheat exports, Tajikistan's economy will lose a major chunk of its remittances, and fertilizer costs will skyrocket because Russia exports a great deal of the potash and nitrogen that sustains global crop yields. Same reporter just posted this. | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
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Emnjay808
United States10666 Posts
On March 04 2022 08:56 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Same reporter just posted this. https://twitter.com/juliaioffe/status/1499364395373240323 Even the KGB cant stop these leaks from the administration. Shit is imploding. | ||
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Deleted User 173346
16169 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
On March 04 2022 09:01 HolydaKing wrote: Currently fighting going on at the Enerhodar nuclear plant. Apparently also some sort of fire which is worrying. Can even watch it live on youtube... https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1499531172493373445 Russian forces are actively shelling the plant now. What happens if there is a radiation leak due to that? And it goes into a NATO country... | ||
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Deleted User 173346
16169 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
On March 04 2022 09:38 plasmidghost wrote: Yeah, I'm seconding that. If a leak happens, I feel like NATO will actually mobilize their forces to drive out the Russians. I don't think the citizens of Europe would be silent as they deal with another Chernobyl Jesus Christ... | ||
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Deleted User 173346
16169 Posts
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Vivax
22410 Posts
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